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And thus begins Revelation's main issue with its map design, or rather, map choices. They've all gone (mostly) for maps with heavy gimmicks in them, so yes, it's all downhill from here.Omobono posted:What was the loving point of Conquest?
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Jun 20, 2017 23:41
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Ok, so Camilla can sense things not of this world if she's been rejected by her sister/brother, but everyone else has also been rejected for not adequately explored reasons and not at any other time? ...Sure! Ok. Let's roll with that. Maybe Camilla and Elise will join us sooner rather than later. Those two were my favorites of the Nohr siblings in battle, so it would be nice to have them for their aura effects.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:53
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Again, I actually liked this map in Conquest, but what's the damned point of doing it again, but more boring this time? All three routs have heavy amounts of recycling, which would be less egregious if I, ya know, didn't have to pay for each route (and more DLC on top of that if I wanted to understand the whole plot.)
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Jun 21, 2017 01:08
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"I sense something not of this world..." Oh gently caress right off with that poo poo.
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Jun 21, 2017 01:09
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At this point, you start to realize that Revelations absolutely stinks of "bad romhack".
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Jun 21, 2017 01:24
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This map sucks rear end without the fliers to zoom around the map. Heart Seal Gunter to Wyvern Lord and kill the boss with Corrin and Gunter pairup. Deploy Subaki to keep Rinkah safe and noone else. gently caress the chests, not worth actually playing this trash map to get them. Lol at that Hana stat drop. She was already pretty bad in Birthright with overall low enemy stats, have fun with the inflated Rev ones!
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Jun 21, 2017 06:08
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PassingPie posted:"I sense something not of this world..." Agreed. Where the gently caress was your "special sense" ANY GODDAMN TIME IN CONQUEST!!!! Nothing has changed! Garon is still cartoonishly evil but it's only NOW that it feels wrong?! 
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Jun 21, 2017 23:19
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Again, different timelines.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:17
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RareAcumen posted:Again, different timelines. Its really the only way to play the games and not go mad. It turns the plot from mind searingly bad into merely mind numbingly bad.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:05
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the conundrum of modern fire emblem: characters need to have relatively static personalities so that their various interactions don't contradict each other (for example, you can't have cordelia get over her obsession with chrom in someone's A support and then have her whine to a different character about how chrom doesn't like her in their C support afterwards), and so when characters behave differently under specific circumstances it doesn't make any goddamn sense. i actually think xander's behaviour in birthright is fine in a vacuum - while he's a moron, he's an extremely believable moron, in the archetypical Camus style - the problem is that his character development in conquest is utterly at odds with that xander. also everyone is kinda dull and weird in the first 6 chapters because they need to believably go in three extremely different directions.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:31
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Fun fact: The Yato's handle is based on a vajra, a weapon from India.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:40
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 So the problem isn't that we're back on one of the worst maps in Conquest with less units. The problem is that everyone that wasn't in the last chapter are horribly underpowered.   For example, ninjas here are like three levels higher than Hana and Subaki with really good defenses. Also they're just barely fast enough to avoid being doubled by Kaze.   Hana literally does zero damage against Oni Savages. Because they have something like 13 defense. That is the main problem here: Either Corrine and Jakob one-shot all the enemies, or Hana and Subaki struggle to dent a single enemy.  The only real difference between this and Conquest's version is the lack of fliers. So there's no incentive at all to rush, because all the enemies have to go through the same, winding path.    Are you really the enemies who attacked our tribe? No time for that now—let us see how you fare against my magic.Hayato does about nine damage to Dragon Corrine, which is by far more than anyone else on the map. So he's got that going for him.  Good stats relative to everyone else, but not exactly the terror of Luna+Vantage from last time.   Hana does seven damage to Hayato before debuffs. I'm SO glad they randomly nerfed her from Birthright. I agree that she was just too powerful before....   I eventually ride the wind to get to Fuga's platform.   And then use the Dragon Vein to blow away everyone else off it. If I suffer, everyone suffers!   ...Did someone forget to just give bosses in Revelation two-range weapons?   It's basically like they designed the route to be just Corrine soloing everyone on any difficulty above normal.   Well, this is a Seize mission and since we have literally done this map before, I'll save you the tedium. Enemy drops: -Heart Seal from Fuga -Sun Festal -Iron Club Treasure Chests: -Dual Katana -10k gold -Physic  WHY THIS MAP  If you say rematch, I will murder you  I am truly sorry that we attacked people form your tribe. We were deceived, and we came here to offer our apologies and an explanation. I understand, Corrine. I could sense no ill intent in you as we fought. You have a pure heart and a warrior's spirit. I promise to explain the situation to the rest of my tribe—you should not worry. Thank you, Chieftain Fuga. It's incredibly galling how samey and repeated this is for a path recommended only after you finish both paths.  You would definitely make him proud. Excuse me? You knew my father? Oh yes. King Sumeragi was a dear friend. We often fought side by side in our younger days. We were brothers in battle.  Those days are long past now... You fought well today. I can see why you deserve to wield the Yato. And yes, I know of that blade. Sumeragi once spoke of it to me. What did he say? The Seal of Flames contains limitless power...It is said that it is a weapon capable even of destroying the gods that made it. It has the power to topple a god?! Then...perhaps it could be used to... Yes... We have a glimmer of hope now.The Yato has the most obvious two empty slots on it even when it's in Blazing/Shadow form. One of the more annoying "BUY REVELATION" visual indicators.  I suggest you seek him out and ask about the Seal of Flames. Our tribe will also provide aid for your trip. I believe the best choice would be... *Someone arrives*  You're... Are you sure? You look so young... I'm not a child. I'm a grown man! You saw what I am capable of. Chieftain, I humbly request this honor from you. You have no objections? No, of course not. Your magical talents will help. I'm sure you'll be a great asset to Corrine. Just promise me you'll be careful. Of course.  Not like I have a choice at this point. I am, Hayato. Thank you. We're glad to have you. You can depend on me. All right, everyone. We're off to Izumo. We might be able to learn more about the Seal of Flames. Units Update  Hayato comes in pretty goddamn beefy, a confusing thing considering how bad everyone that joined this chapter were.  -> It only took four levels for her to get back to her original strength, yipee  -> This is the worst Kaze I've ever seen  -> Healer who cares  -> Subaki somehow went speedy and barely gained defense, what
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Jun 22, 2017 02:19
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Tae posted:
 Pretty good gains for 8 levels, and more importantly, he's usable right out of the box, unlike the idiot brigade from last level.
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Jun 22, 2017 02:36
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Tae posted:
He picked up a point of defense so he's still better than my first Kaze  Also, it's good to see a unit join the team with appropriate stats and level, even if that unit is Hayato.
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Jun 22, 2017 02:47
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Tae posted:Units Update Hey, he might actually see combat this time instead of getting dumped immediately like he did in Birthright! Seriously, that "start at level 1" idiocy is unforgivable. He's like 3 stages too late to catch up without significant level grinding, I think, and by that point you have better units to give the experience to (like Hinoka- say what you will about her as a character, but she's quite useful as a unit). Tae posted:
Hana tends to be pretty hit-or-miss. I mean, in my experience she's great offensively, but when she gets her offense nerfed for no apparent reason and gains nothing in return she'll probably be more miss than hit. Tae posted:
I've seen worse. As in, "promoted level 20 with single-digit Strength and Defense" worse. Yes, I'm aware that everyone else insists that dealing damage is not what a Ninja's for, I don't care; I like having everyone capable of contributing no matter the situation, dammit! Plus it's kinda hard to keep someone's level up to date when they can't kill anything, which means low-DPS units are just gonna fall further and further behind if you don't go out of your way to level grind them. Tae posted:
Sakura is an excellent unit, and you will never convince me otherwise. Just think of any stats she gains as preparation for when she's no longer a pure healer. Granted, I have a history of abusing staff-users to get them to 20/20 before anyone else even reaches level 10 (I have used Setsuna as a punching bag for Fuga in Birthright specifically to grind healers- that's about all she's good for in my opinion), but still. Sakura's growths are quite good, so she's a strong candidate for "endgame unit." If she turns out subpar for you, I'll just assume the RNG screwed you over. Tae posted:
What indeed. Subaki, getting class-appropriate growths? I have literally never had that happen. Usually he turns out with more of a "low-tier General" stat distribution for me, and I assume the same is true for others.
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Jun 22, 2017 08:51
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  Time to visit Zola again.   God, I hate Izumo so much at this point. So that's Izumo's central palace. There's something...calming about it. Yes. Izumo has long been known as the kingdom of the gods. It only makes sense that the center of its power would radiate peace. While all the other kingdoms quarrel, it maintains a neutral stance.  I'm glad we made it here safely. Let's go find the archduke. *A moment later*  OH MY GOD NEW ASSETS  Keeper of prophecies, and winner of best hair...five or six times? I forget. It's so nice to finally meet you! I imagine your journey here was quite difficult. Time to kick back and relax! Izumo is a wonderful place. You could stay here forever! Th-thank you very much for such a warm greeting... Oh, it's nothing! You know, I'm really glad you came! I rarely have company. I'm so excited, I hardly feel like myself! Holy poo poo, you have a story scene? Is this how all major leaders of the world are meant to behave? No, they don't normally act this way. He's just...a special case. Pardon me, Archduke—we actually came here to ask you some questions. Oh? What about? Ask away, my friends! If you've got any good gossip to share, I'd be ever so pleased to listen! We were wondering if you could share what you know about the Seal of Flames.  I don't bother remembering dull things. I...see. Just when I thought we were going to catch a break, too. Hey now, don't look so disappointed! I've prepared a feast for you inside! You should eat, drink, and be happy while there is still time to do so! Wait. Are you sure you don't know anything about the Seal of Flames? The fate of the world may hang in the balance. Grrr... I said I've never heard of it!  Revelation, if you're just going to shortcut things this much, why do it again in the first place So literally only Gunter knows about the illusion in Nohr or something?  What? You're calling me an imposter? After I've prepared a feast for you all? Don't be coy with me. It's plain to see you're hiding behind a magic illusion. Reveal yourself! Ah! Gunter, you're no fun at all! *Zola transforms back*  Zola—I knew it was you behind that magic! Gunter, who is this? This cretin is a Nohrian mage. He specializes in illusions and deception. But...then where is the real archduke?! I'm afraid it's off to jail for him—the clink, the slammer, the cooler! Oooh, cooler!   Fire the what now   ...The hell just happened   We'll have to break through. The enemy is probably using this ice as cover. Be careful! So this is a new map with another tedious gimmick.   You have to break the snow with an attack, and that may reveal an enemy. Usually one, rarely three enemies are in the pack of snow. And almost all of them have an item. Why is it tedious? Because this is a BIG map and every single inch is covered in snow.  And because you can only deploy six units total for this mission. Yeah. So I'm just going to label everything you can get on this map: -Master Seal -Heart Seal -Iron Sword -Iron Lance x2 -Iron Axe -Iron Shuriken -Iron Bow -Hand Axe -Steel Lance -Mjölnir -Arms Scroll -Energy Drop -Secret Book -Bloom Festal -Sun Festal -Mend -Vulnerary -Concoction -Elixir -5k gold -Goddess Icon -Talisman -Dracoshield -Speedwing *Many billion years later*   Zola, are you anything special   The answer is no.   I legit fell asleep doing this.   Like why only six units, goddamnit Units Report  -> I regret this process with the Dragonstone.  -> ...Did she really just gain 1 speed in 3 levels  -> Oh, Hayato stole all the speed. And barely gained magic??  -> Good HP gain  -> REALLY??
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Jun 23, 2017 00:39
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I understand why you basically skipped the map on this update, but for the people who haven't played Revelations, this is ten times as annoying as you're imagining it is. This map is slow, tedious, boring, has no actual challenge, and only serves to drag the game to a halt. This is probably where most people realize that the map design has gone completely down the toilet, and it really doesn't help that the game has only given you a few dumpster units to work with.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:07
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To add to that, under the snow right before Zola is a Mjolnir mage who can probably one round any of your units with a crit. Weren't expecting him after the weak enemies you've been facing all level? Looks like you're clearing all that snow again! 
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Jun 23, 2017 01:09
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That snow looks real bad. Also who the hell playtested this and went hmm yes, everything seems good here.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:42
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 61 turns? Are you kidding me? Who thought this was acceptable!?
Araxxor fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 01:42
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"Who the hell playtested this" and "Who thought this was acceptable" are questions that you'll ask yourself many times while playing Rev. I really hate Zola's Winter Wonderland. It's a slog until you have to risk a crit at the end. Seriously, IntSys must've let like, the F-team design Rev.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:51
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If you had more people that would probably be... a little less of a slog? Maybe? But wow, this is not a good gimmick for this time in the game.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:01
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Glazius posted:If you had more people that would probably be... a little less of a slog? Maybe? But wow, this is not a good gimmick for this time in the game. You have plenty of units at this time, it's just that you can only bring 6 of them to this map.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:24
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I don't know why but I didn't mind this stage. Everyone's complaints are completely true and valid, it just didn't bother me that much for no reason I can identify. v v
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Jun 23, 2017 02:54
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Dr. Fetus posted:
That said, I'll give Revelation some credit: they put in a tiny amount of effort and made a new map for Izumo. It wasn't a good map, mind you, but at least it wasn't rehashed from the other campaigns.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:07
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So apparently, King Garon has technology from Team Neo Plasma that he has never used up until now, because ???
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Jun 23, 2017 03:09
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I had to read that update three times before it hit me that the reason you took so many turns wasn't just because you had to break the ice, but because it breaks off in tiny bite sized pieces? At first it looked like each attack on the ice wall revealed a long corridor with some enemies but that's seemingly not the case? Being forced to chip away at it like you're tunneling in Minecraft or Terraria looks miserable.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:24
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Hitting a tile reveals that tiles and the eight surrounding tiles, yeah.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:27
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PassingPie posted:I had to read that update three times before it hit me that the reason you took so many turns wasn't just because you had to break the ice, but because it breaks off in tiny bite sized pieces? At first it looked like each attack on the ice wall revealed a long corridor with some enemies but that's seemingly not the case? Repeat 35 times while traveling across the map, because the map without snow is pretty linear and walled in. There's only one small path to Zola.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:30
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Oh that's just the worst poo poo ever.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:33
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lol
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Jun 23, 2017 04:37
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... At least they got rid of weapon breakability? That would've made this map, uh, worse.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:40
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Blue Labrador posted:... Holy poo poo I couldn't even imagine that level of bullshit.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:59
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You want ranged units for this map, as they will take out 9 tiles, while the most non-ranged units can do is 8 tiles, but in practice are only clearing 6 tiles.
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Jun 23, 2017 05:00
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i'm a big fan of the arbitrary wizard powers that turn up once and are never mentioned again in order for the map's gimmick to happen fates seems to be particularly bad about this even by fire emblem standards, see also mikoto's magic barrier that makes the plot do the thing
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Jun 23, 2017 05:07
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Now that I think about it, in practice it's basically just the "fog of war" from the previous map, just a aesthetic difference.
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Jun 23, 2017 06:30
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Crosspeice posted:That snow looks real bad. Also who the hell playtested this and went hmm yes, everything seems good here. You're assuming that they playtested it at all. I find it more likely that they put in just enough effort to say that it works (as in mechanically), and didn't even care about whether it WORKS (as in "enjoyable").
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Jun 23, 2017 08:05
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theshim posted:I don't know why but I didn't mind this stage. Everyone's complaints are completely true and valid, it just didn't bother me that much for no reason I can identify. v Likewise. I pumped Rinka and Kaze with the boosters from this and online items, made Mozu the lord class, didn't even notice how much worse Hanna is since I thought she sucked back in birtright too and I didn't use her. And once you start getting royals there's no reason to use much anyone else anyway. All complains here are valid though, not arguing otherwise.
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Jun 23, 2017 08:06
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Whoever described Revelation as basically a bad romhack hit the nail on the head. I can visualize every map gimmick in this route as the sort of thing an excited 13-year-old would come up with because it's "different and challenging".
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Jun 23, 2017 08:14
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ungulateman posted:i'm a big fan of the arbitrary wizard powers that turn up once and are never mentioned again in order for the map's gimmick to happen
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Jun 23, 2017 08:43
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