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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I'm curious if that'll change with the AHCA or w/e it is. Under AHCA we actually plan to just take as many organs from people who can't pay as we think is fair for the services rendered.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:52
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I'm curious if that'll change with the AHCA or w/e it is. No it won't, the legislation mandating emergency treatment and stabilization is called EMTALA and isn't really a political football
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Jun 20, 2017 18:18
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therobit posted:They aren't allowed to turn you away from the emergency room, even for non-emergencies. In theory, but emergency rooms still turn people away and transfer/dump all the loving time, they just keep shifting the definition of emergency. Pretty sure that chest pain isn't an emergency, aw gently caress the hobo died well noone cares. At least in Colorado, not sure if other states have stricter laws around this.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:55
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The fines for an EMTALA violation are astronomical, and it's corporate malfeasance levels of BWM to think about playing around with that hand grenade. If someone comes in to the ER, you treat them and street them, bill them for 10x what you'd get reimbursed from Medicare, let them negotiate or bankrupt out of it and treat the bad debt as a tax write-down assuming you're a hospital that even pays taxes.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:29
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Sorry I don't really know what that means, how many of those violator fines were handed out in Colorado last year? Unless the dollar amount was high eight or nine figures I don't think it's deterring much according to the jaded medical workers I know.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:32
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Pryor on Fire posted:Sorry I don't really know what that means, how many of those violator fines were handed out in Colorado last year? Unless the dollar amount was high eight or nine figures I don't think it's deterring much according to the jaded medical workers I know. "Treat 'em and street 'em" essentially means make sure they aren't going to die in the next 20 minutes and then roll their rear end out the door.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:33
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If you have a job making $40k you almost certainly have health insurance, or could afford it with the Obamacare subsidies.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:36
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Short and sweet. Will using a 0% intro apr cc to invest hurt my credit score quote:I got a new cc with a 4K limit and I figured I could make a little extra money by investing it I just don't want my credit to take a hit quote:How do you plan to do that. 0 interest cards usually don't give cash advances. OP could do something very stupid like buy $4000 of bitcoin on credit. quote:Pretty much what I was gonna do
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Jun 20, 2017 20:36
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ranbo das posted:Short and sweet. Have fun with that 10% cash advance penalty and 25% APR. Bitcoin should outpace that right?
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Jun 20, 2017 20:52
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Solice Kirsk posted:Have fun with that 10% cash advance penalty and 25% APR. Bitcoin should outpace that right?
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Jun 20, 2017 20:56
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OctaviusBeaver posted:If you have a job making $40k you almost certainly have health insurance, or could afford it with the Obamacare subsidies. Let me tell you about the $1200/mo for a couple health insurance I was offered at one job. Obamacare for a single parent would be about $500 for a garbage barely not catastrophic plan which still leaves a lot of the cost for everything on you. You're on the upper end of qualifying for subsidies around there too, as far as I know.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:26
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Insurance cost and subsidies depend on a lot of different factors, where you live, age, income, family size. $500 for a family insurance plan is very cheap for most people. Many employers are paying $1k a month or more for a family health insurance plan on your behalf. Under the ACA insurance has an out of pocket max of $13k for a family if you are on a marketplace plan in 2016. And no one person would pay out of pocket more than $7k. The numbers go up a little for 2017. If you are making under $40k you may qualify for medicaid and pay nothing, or you may qualify for subsidies on the insurance marketplace. The 2017 federal poverty level for a family of three is just over $20k, so $40k is under the 200% limit meaning your out of pocket expenses would be capped at $4700 for a family and $2350 for an individual, and you would be eligible for marketplace subsidies in all states. Many states have their own programs with higher income limits for subsidies. There is a lot missing info on how they arrived at $70k in mostly medical debt.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:09
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Someone left a MLM brochure for a company called "Norwex" on the breakroom table at work. They apparently sell laundry detergent for $25 a lb, multipurpose household cleaner for $30 a bottle, and microfiber cloths for $30 each.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:13
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Someone left a MLM brochure for a company called "Norwex" on the breakroom table at work. They apparently sell laundry detergent for $25 a lb, multipurpose household cleaner for $30 a bottle, and microfiber cloths for $30 each. MLMs don't really embrace the competition part of capitalism do they? The only reason for the products to be involved is to sidestep being a pyramid scheme. Talking about pyramid schemes the Herbalife documentary on Netflix is pretty interesting it has everything; people being BWM, hedge fund managers with short positions and stock price manipulation, and slow moving Federal agencies that don't take any action when there's obvious criminal activity.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:23
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Someone left a MLM brochure for a company called "Norwex" on the breakroom table at work. They apparently sell laundry detergent for $25 a lb, multipurpose household cleaner for $30 a bottle, and microfiber cloths for $30 each. They are an "eco-friendly" cleaning product company that has the same kind of MLM model as Tupperware, Pampered Chef, etc. - all about home parties and the like. They are slightly different from your regular, run of the mill "we're not a pyramid scheme, we just operate like one" MLM in that they focus on using new recruits as a way to get the products in front of friends and family outside of traditional marketing routes, rather than just solely stacking recruits for uplevel commissions. Doesn't make them better in my opinion but they don't have as bad a rep as your Amway, etc. does.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:29
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lampey posted:Insurance cost and subsidies depend on a lot of different factors, where you live, age, income, family size. $500 for a family insurance plan is very cheap for most people. Many employers are paying $1k a month or more for a family health insurance plan on your behalf. Under the ACA insurance has an out of pocket max of $13k for a family if you are on a marketplace plan in 2016. And no one person would pay out of pocket more than $7k. The numbers go up a little for 2017. If you are making under $40k you may qualify for medicaid and pay nothing, or you may qualify for subsidies on the insurance marketplace. The 2017 federal poverty level for a family of three is just over $20k, so $40k is under the 200% limit meaning your out of pocket expenses would be capped at $4700 for a family and $2350 for an individual, and you would be eligible for marketplace subsidies in all states. Many states have their own programs with higher income limits for subsidies. $500 is for an absolute garbage plan, for a parent with children, not a family. The title said single mom. Parent with children is cheaper than family. That's also going to raise her above 200% of the poverty line. I might have underestimated the cost, too. It's obviously going to depend on where you are, and if you want actually useable coverage you're looking at at least $800. There's almost certainly more to the story than is in the post, but Obamacare is garbage. Better than before, but still garbage.
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Jun 21, 2017 01:09
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22 Eargesplitten posted:$500 is for an absolute garbage plan, for a parent with children, not a family. The title said single mom. Parent with children is cheaper than family. That's also going to raise her above 200% of the poverty line. I might have underestimated the cost, too. It's obviously going to depend on where you are, and if you want actually useable coverage you're looking at at least $800. This is all interesting, and not bad information to have, but it still doesn't really explain, at all, why this person has 70k in "medical bills" on their CC. Unless they have a terminal or near-terminal disease - which I am guessing probably would have been mentioned - there are few reasons why that was the only route to take even with the poo poo state of healthcare for 40k/under people in the US. Granted, we don't have all the info. If it was a sick kid and the mom just wanted to make sure they had the best care possible without thinking through the consequences it's easy to be sympathetic (for that matter, bankruptcy will come in handy in that situation). If "medical" = I wanted invisalign braces and a large TV to help me tune out every time I get a new set and my teeth hurt" then...less so. We don't know. The whole thing just seems like a bunch of lovely decisions and bad circumstances rolled up in one.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:15
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It was a dog. Her medical bills were for a beloved pooch that died and was then cloned back to life and then got sick again and cloned another time. That or "medical" is just a way to get people off her back about her $70k in credit card bills. A friend of mine has had to bail their mother-in-law out multiple times for medical emergencies put on credit cards and that's only amounted to $10k even with lovely insurance. YMMV of course. There's always a chance most of it is medical. But you have to have some pretty spectacular bad luck plus bad decision making for that to happen.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:52
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Ixian posted:This is all interesting, and not bad information to have, but it still doesn't really explain, at all, why this person has 70k in "medical bills" on their CC. Unless they have a terminal or near-terminal disease - which I am guessing probably would have been mentioned - there are few reasons why that was the only route to take even with the poo poo state of healthcare for 40k/under people in the US. You keep bringing up TVs. Do you know something we don't? Also large TVs are like a thousand bucks and clearly not the primary or even a large cause of a 70k cc debt you weirdo And since the author of that post specifically edited it away from medical work to medical bills explicitly to counteract assumptions like braces... I'm going to assume it wasn't those either. I think you may need to make up some other stuff to moralize about. feller fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 03:55
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Senor Dog posted:You keep bringing up TVs. Do you know something we don't? Also large TVs are like a thousand bucks and clearly not the primary or even a large cause of a 70k cc debt you weirdo Substitute TV for Ubereats, furniture, vacations, or whatever else if you want. My point being that 70k for "I got really sick through no fault of my own and due to the hosed healthcare system in the US required me to rack up 70k in CC bills" seems suspect absent other information. But by all means debate it from the other end, doesn't matter either way.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:59
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i have some old bullshit medical bill from an insurance-denied ambulance ride in the middle of nowhere years ago that i haven't paid and i'm never going to. i can easily afford to pay it but i'd rather just do nothing until the debt is out of statute and then tell them to gently caress off. pretty sure that wouldn't work with my credit card bills though
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Jun 21, 2017 04:06
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Racking up medical debt in the us of a seems like the least suspicious story ever.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:10
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the suspicious part is not having the medical debt, it's paying the medical debt (with money you don't have, at a much higher interest rate than any payment plan from the hospital would charge, assuming they don't just say gently caress it and write it off)
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Jun 21, 2017 04:12
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Ixian posted:Substitute TV for Ubereats, furniture, vacations, or whatever else if you want. My point being that 70k for "I got really sick through no fault of my own and due to the hosed healthcare system in the US required me to rack up 70k in CC bills" seems suspect absent other information. But by all means debate it from the other end, doesn't matter either way. There, there. You don't have to worry about debt or scary financial problems. Those bad things only happen to bad people who spend money on uber eats and fancy $500 flat screen TVs. If anybody is ever in debt, it must be because they spent money on stupid things you don't like, no matter what they say. If they say something else, they are just hiding their stupid spending habits. You are smart and good and only ever spend money on smart things. You don't ever have to worry about bad things in your own life. Good job for being so smart!
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Jun 21, 2017 04:14
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Space Gopher posted:There, there. You don't have to worry about debt or scary financial problems. Those bad things only happen to bad people who spend money on uber eats and fancy $500 flat screen TVs. If anybody is ever in debt, it must be because they spent money on stupid things you don't like, no matter what they say. If they say something else, they are just hiding their stupid spending habits. You are smart and good and only ever spend money on smart things. You don't ever have to worry about bad things in your own life. Good job for being so smart! Your response contrasted with the red title someone bought for you pretty much says it all. I meant none of the above but by all means pull out your sword and defend the innocent.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:17
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The Venn diagram for when this, the r/relationships thread, or any other mock thread devolves into unprovable speculation into information missing from an off-site post, and for when they become unreadable garbage, is a purple loving circle. Maybe they spent the money on a horse wedding, maybe on vital medical expenses, no-one knows so please jack off in rage to your preferred strawman quietly.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:39
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Ixian posted:Your response contrasted with the red title someone bought for you pretty much says it all. I meant none of the above but by all means pull out your sword and defend the innocent. Come on, this is exactly what you've been posting: absent any information on how the individual incurred the debt other than a vague description of medical bills you jump immediately to how the person must have brought it on herself with wasteful spending.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:45
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Eldred posted:Come on, this is exactly what you've been posting: absent any information on how the individual incurred the debt other than a vague description of medical bills you jump immediately to how the person must have brought it on herself with wasteful spending. Not to belabor the point, but it's not the medical debt that's in question. If that was the exact same post but mentioned a $70k hospital bill, there's a story in there about the hosed up patchwork of healthcare in the US. $70k in medical bills on a credit card is a situation that can really only come about from poor financial decisions outside of some speculative edge cases.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:53
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Krispy Kareem posted:There's always a chance most of it is medical. But you have to have some pretty spectacular bad luck plus bad decision making for that to happen. aw poo poo I've never been special before: Gallbladder cost after insurance (+ ultrasound + HIDA scan + office visits) $14K - sticker for surgery alone was $30k not counting anesthesiologist Colonoscopy cost after insurance (+ office visits) $8k - sticker for scope alone was $15k not counting anesthesiologist ER kidney stone after insurance $5k hip surgery with overnight stay - sticker price $33k - thank god I didn't have to pay for this 2 MRIs, 3 X-Rays, 1 steroid injection, physical therapy since October of last year, psychotherapy, sundry prescriptions - $$$thousands$$$ thank god I didn't have to pay for this I bet somebody could get there with one emergency appendectomy without even trying, though. I know they could get there if they had two infusions of Remicade and a colonoscopy in the same month if their insurance didn't correctly verify benefits to the hospital and they proceeded with treatment, which happens shockingly often. If their insurance is particularly slow to process claims, I bet they could get that third induction dose in and be a cool $60k in the hole before they knew what hit them. One infusion dose ran at least $20k at my hospital. Now if they have relapsed or refractory Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which to be fair might pass the spectacularly bad luck bar, they could squeeze in four doses before the average insurance company can get around to denying a claim, and be at least $80k in the hole just on rituximab, not to mention their doctor visits, scans, and any other meds or treatment they may need. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 21, 2017 07:38
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NancyPants posted:aw poo poo I've never been special before: Ouch. A friend of mine had his gallbladder out, I think he said it cost him a similar amount. This was pre- He said he spent the next 1-2 years grinding like a motherfucker to pay it off: living at home, delivering pizzas, and flipping the occasional car. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 08:07
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Ouch. A friend of mine had his gallbladder out, I think he said it cost him a similar amount. This was pre-AHCA and he didn't have any insurance. I don't know about your friend, but mine was a bog standard, planned ahead-of-time laparoscopic outpatient surgery where I went home only a couple hours after. Any complication not only adds to your recovery time but also the financial cost. It might literally be hell. I completely understand why someone would make stupid decisions with that kind of debt hanging over them. I made 34k a year at the time. It is a miserable loving existence that makes you want to die, and it's not even uncommon.
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Jun 21, 2017 08:57
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Just a reminder, the flawed but better than nothing Obamacare is the ACA or PPACA. AHCA is the Republican replacement/dumpster fire. It doesn't do anyone any good to conflate those two.
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Jun 21, 2017 12:26
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Is it possible to get 70K of credit card lines when you are making 40K and already have debt? I think I have credit card lines up to around my yearly income, but I also have a pretty high credit score due to being GWM.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:17
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monster on a stick posted:Is it possible to get 70K of credit card lines when you are making 40K and already have debt? I think I have credit card lines up to around my yearly income, but I also have a pretty high credit score due to being GWM. If you start factoring in lines of credit with specific stores, yes, it's possible. Easy, even.  Not saying that's what the lady in question did, just answering the question.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:23
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NancyPants posted:aw poo poo I've never been special before: If you need something like a Gallbladder or Appendix removed and you don't have insurance, it's also not uncommon for the Doctor to basically present you with the option of paying tens of thousands of dollars up front for the surgery or waiting until it ruptures and floods your body with poisons at which point it's now an emergency and they'll do the surgery to attempt to save your life and just bill you after the fact. No idea if that's what happened here, but it's not entirely unreasonable to decide to throw money on a CC if that's the only place you had available to you if the Doctor is telling you "Pay $XXXXX now or risk dying when the thing ruptures".
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Jun 21, 2017 15:29
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Graduated college, Parents $350k in debt and they want my help / Parent Plus loan refi? posted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6ibz42/graduated_college_parents_350k_in_debt_and_they/
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Jun 21, 2017 16:02
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ohgodwhat posted:Just a reminder, the flawed but better than nothing Obamacare is the ACA or PPACA. I'm 99% sure they named it so similarly on purpose to confuse people about who's responsible when they lose their healthcare. Also, people get real freaked by collections and I can see someone knowing it's bad but still putting medical debt on credit cards when the hospital is threatening collections. People are irrational and if she had good credit with all that debt she's probably the type to pay more money to maintain that number. When I had surgery a few years ago the hospital offered to let me put my bill on a payment plan at the low interest rate of approx 4%. Got to squeeze those patients extra hard incase you didn't get all the money the first time.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:11
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SquirrelFace posted:I'm 99% sure they named it so similarly on purpose to confuse people about who's responsible when they lose their healthcare. Yup. I see more and more GPs charging similar interest rates for payment plans. I once saw an endocrinologist/internal med doc who required all patients to sign a contract acknowledging that any unpaid balances were subject to 6% interest. Dedicated urgent care clinics will do this too and they don't play when it comes to collections, they will sue very quickly. I got a letter from a lawyer the same month I got a bill from one urgent care clinic in town.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:33
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ohgodwhat posted:Just a reminder, the flawed but better than nothing Obamacare is the ACA or PPACA. ACA, AHCA. How terribly confusing of the Republicans to give their plan almost entirely the same name. No doubt it was a complete accident - they wouldn't want ill-informed people to confuse their terrific plan with Obamacare, would they? Perish the thought!
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Jun 21, 2017 17:00
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SquirrelFace posted:I'm 99% sure they named it so similarly on purpose to confuse people about who's responsible when they lose their healthcare. I mean I'm pretty sure 70% of the population still doesn't know that "obamacare" and "the affordable care act" are the same thing so it's not exactly hard 
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