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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The Republicans are just realizing they can't effectively attack Hillary any more so they're redirecting all that misogyny at the next available female target. If not Pelosi, Warren, if not Warren Kamala, if not Kamala then Duckworth, etc. They also know that it's easy to get Democrats to eat their own in an attempt to appease that mythical Republican voter who can be turned to vote Democrat. "Republicans hate Pelosi so much," the reasoning goes, "if we got rid of her, maybe we could win some of them over." We're really loving predictable, aren't we?
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Jun 21, 2017 22:43
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It's possible that the guy arguing for deposing Nancy Pelosi based on shithead hysteria is not arguing in good faith, and in fact does not on most topics in this subforum. Fair enough. I only post in 3 or 4 threads because message boards are huge timesucks but yeah I realize he's probably trolling with that username.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:43
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Hellblazer187 posted:Here's Nate from February saying it's very possible but don't count your chickens.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:44
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Republicans can shout "B-b-b-ut Pelosi" as much as they like, but if they continue on their present course, they're not going to be able to pin their lovely health care bill, absence of tax reform, and probable failure on a clean debt ceiling increase on Pelosi and the Dems. They own everything that's been happening since January, and most voters feel the same way. This is why I'm more hopeful than a lot of people who are declaring doom and gloom for the Democrats. I don't know whether Pelosi is effective or not, but she's not the problem. If Democrats want to take the government back from the thugs currently running it, they have to fight for it and never give up. The GOP never let up on Obama, and they had a lot of success in '10 (the party in charge always loses seats anyway) and '14.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:44
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So I saw something earlier about Alaska's government possibly shutting down. Aren't there a couple of other states that are risking that right now too? What the hell happens if they do and then the federal government shuts down, which is a current possibility, right?
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Jun 21, 2017 22:46
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:He isn't saying its very possible there, just possible. The error margins are quite large in his estimates there and he acknowledges that as well. He literally says the projection is 40 seats. Yes, there's a huge +- there, but the projection isn't the sad doom that everyone seems to be huffing based on one election result that doesn't say what you think it says. Here's Nate from today. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-can-democrats-win-georgia-6-ossoff-handel/ It's enough for me to think that dems will take the house. Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 22:47
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Skex posted:When you play a competitive game do you also take tactical advice from your opponent? I honestly doubt the Republicans vilify her because they hope the Democratic base will force her out because they're taking cues from Republican talking points. They do it because she fits a very powerful template for old conservatives. That being said, there's still no particular reason for the left wing of the base to agitate for her removal beyond a general desire to oust the insiders. She delivered a public option, expanded Medicaid subsidies, and offered bigger subsidies. She can get progressive legislation through the House when she has it, and she has kept her caucus completely in line when in the minority. She also sides with party leadership during intra-party power struggles, which generally sucks, but I'll take her results.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:47
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Lightning Lord posted:So I saw something earlier about Alaska's government possibly shutting down. Aren't there a couple of other states that are risking that right now too? What the hell happens if they do and then the federal government shuts down, which is a current possibility, right? Libertopia
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Jun 21, 2017 22:48
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Republicans can shout "B-b-b-ut Pelosi" as much as they like, but if they continue on their present course, they're not going to be able to pin their lovely health care bill, absence of tax reform, and probable failure on a clean debt ceiling increase on Pelosi and the Dems. They own everything that's been happening since January, and most voters feel the same way. This is why I'm more hopeful than a lot of people who are declaring doom and gloom for the Democrats. Literally the most significant person in resisting the GOP and never letting up on them in the House is Pelosi. Which is why it's fun to see (mostly) male centrist Dems screaming for Pelosi's head because of talking points that are straight out of the Republican book. I had someone basically text me that today calling for her head.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:48
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I think there's something to be said for the idea that good whips have a finite shelf life. Pelosi is very good at her job, and that's the very reason that even lukewarm centrists like Ossoff can be tied to her in a way that Republican candidates aren't necessarily tied to Ryan (or Trump for that matter). Sure they'd move right on to whoever her replacement was, but those attacks wouldn't have the same bite if they couldn't draw on a decade plus of accumulated name recognition and negative advertising.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:49
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Elotana posted:but those attacks wouldn't have the same bite if they couldn't draw on a decade plus of accumulated name recognition and negative advertising. They don't have bite. Only the GOP's rabid base cares about her.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:53
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Rigel posted:They don't have bite. Only the GOP's rabid base cares about her. Right, but we do have turnout to consider. I think it's possible some of those same rabid dogs might come out to vote against Pelosi's boy in a way they might not to vote against someone new in charge. At least not for a while.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:56
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Elotana posted:I think there's something to be said for the idea that good whips have a finite shelf life. Pelosi is very good at her job, and that's the very reason that even lukewarm centrists like Ossoff can be tied to her in a way that Republican candidates aren't necessarily tied to Ryan (or Trump for that matter). Sure they'd move right on to whoever her replacement was, but those attacks wouldn't have the same bite if they couldn't draw on a decade plus of accumulated name recognition and negative advertising. You're vastly underestimating the power of the RWM machine and how effectively programmed their base is.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:56
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Vox put up an article about a woman who brought her 6-year-old son with her to lobby for the ACA and against AHCA. Basically, her son, who was born literally two days after Obamacare made it illegal to have lifetime/annual limits on health insurance plans, has been in and out of hospitals his entire short life, and has cost millions of dollars in healthcare which, because of Obamacare, has not driven his family into poverty. She went and visited a bunch of senators and, surprise of all surprises, pretty much every Republican she talked to actively avoided her, was "too busy", or found some way to wiggle out of meeting with a woman who will have to choose between never having money to spend ever again or basically giving up on her son because of their stupid hosed up bill. This, of course, got me to thinking: we know that the guy who shot Steve Scalise last week was a loving whack job, but if this woman, whose son's life is in jeopardy because of this health-care debate, were to storm into congress and hold up Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell at gunpoint, what would the story be? It was very easy for democrats to take the "well this is terrible and all violence is bad" viewpoint when the person they'd be defending otherwise is a domestic abuser prone to violence, but if a nice white mom shot a Republican congressman and, when asked why, said "well the bill they were passing is going to actively, literally damage my son and my family's well being", what happens then? What I'm saying is not that we need more violence, but we need more judiciously decided violence. 20 grade school kids getting shot by someone with mental health issues obviously did nothing to help anyone, but what if a normal, fully rational (obviously they'd have to be white to get anyone to listen, unfortunately) person decided to hold Rand Paul hostage until we got single payer healthcare?
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Jun 21, 2017 22:57
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Jaxyon posted:Literally the most significant person in resisting the GOP and never letting up on them in the House is Pelosi. I've never seen any centrist Dems call for Pelosi to be ousted. It's nearly always the "proves horseshoe theory" leftists that want to primary her.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:57
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Rigel posted:They don't have bite. Only the GOP's rabid base cares about her. Plus the way I see it, Republicans are pretty consistent in their wrongness, Why the gently caress should anyone start listening to them about this. These are people who don't believe in evolution and think that Climate change is a hoax. I've found the GOP to be a very predictable indicator for right and wrong. If they are for it, the odds are it's wrong and evil. If they are against it it's probably good.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:58
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https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/877617717460836352 https://mic.com/articles/180564/ala...ding#.hxSoGnXsI
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Jun 21, 2017 22:59
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Flip Yr Wig posted:She delivered a public option, What timeline are you living in and how can we shift to it?
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Jun 21, 2017 22:59
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DC Murderverse posted:Vox put up an article about a woman who brought her 6-year-old son with her to lobby for the ACA and against AHCA. Basically, her son, who was born literally two days after Obamacare made it illegal to have lifetime/annual limits on health insurance plans, has been in and out of hospitals his entire short life, and has cost millions of dollars in healthcare which, because of Obamacare, has not driven his family into poverty. She went and visited a bunch of senators and, surprise of all surprises, pretty much every Republican she talked to actively avoided her, was "too busy", or found some way to wiggle out of meeting with a woman who will have to choose between never having money to spend ever again or basically giving up on her son because of their stupid hosed up bill. If Republicans and the American people cared about the plight of that woman and her son, we wouldn't be in this position to begin with. Shooting a congressman isn't going to make them care about her.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:00
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aware of dog posted:I've never seen any centrist Dems call for Pelosi to be ousted. It's nearly always the "proves horseshoe theory" leftists that want to primary her. I'm seeing it right now. But again, it's from folks who have internalized misogyny, generally.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:00
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DC Murderverse posted:Vox put up an article about a woman who brought her 6-year-old son with her to lobby for the ACA and against AHCA. Basically, her son, who was born literally two days after Obamacare made it illegal to have lifetime/annual limits on health insurance plans, has been in and out of hospitals his entire short life, and has cost millions of dollars in healthcare which, because of Obamacare, has not driven his family into poverty. She went and visited a bunch of senators and, surprise of all surprises, pretty much every Republican she talked to actively avoided her, was "too busy", or found some way to wiggle out of meeting with a woman who will have to choose between never having money to spend ever again or basically giving up on her son because of their stupid hosed up bill. Was John Q on movie channel last night or is this home-brewed crazy
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Jun 21, 2017 23:00
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marshmonkey posted:https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/877617717460836352 there's one book in there that should ever be anywhere near a public high school or, really, people in general.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:02
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aware of dog posted:I've never seen any centrist Dems call for Pelosi to be ousted. It's nearly always the "proves horseshoe theory" leftists that want to primary her. One of the newest candidates to declare for the house did, I'm looking for the tweet. Stairmaster posted:What timeline are you living in and how can we shift to it? It just didn't pass the Senate. It was in the house bill.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:03
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DC Murderverse posted:Vox put up an article about a woman who brought her 6-year-old son with her to lobby for the ACA and against AHCA. Basically, her son, who was born literally two days after Obamacare made it illegal to have lifetime/annual limits on health insurance plans, has been in and out of hospitals his entire short life, and has cost millions of dollars in healthcare which, because of Obamacare, has not driven his family into poverty. She went and visited a bunch of senators and, surprise of all surprises, pretty much every Republican she talked to actively avoided her, was "too busy", or found some way to wiggle out of meeting with a woman who will have to choose between never having money to spend ever again or basically giving up on her son because of their stupid hosed up bill. the response would be some cobbled amalgamation of 'so much for the tolerant left' and 'liberals are turrrrorists.'
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Jun 21, 2017 23:03
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DC Murderverse posted:there's one book in there that should ever be anywhere near a public high school or, really, people in general. Not just one.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:07
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Hellblazer187 posted:Right, but we do have turnout to consider. I think it's possible some of those same rabid dogs might come out to vote against Pelosi's boy in a way they might not to vote against someone new in charge. At least not for a while. Bhuahahahahahahah are you.. lololololololol. OMG that's hilarious. it doesn't matter who is in charge of the Democrats the GOP are going to run the same play, That's their thing. fear, it's what motivates them, it's what rules ever aspect of their lives. They are born cowards and the GOP has conditioned them to react to their dog whistles. I mean honestly do you really think that Republican voters have any real basis for their hatred of Pelosi other than Rush and the rest of the Right Wing Media machine tell them that she's a leftist and that's makes her "and evil race/gender traitor, feminazi socialist, communist, atheist intent on burning the Constitution wrapped in a flag and forcing Sharia law on the entire nation"? No odds are they know next to if not literal nothing regarding her actual policy positions or legislative successes/failures? So once again why on Earth should Democrats take tactical advise from the opposition? The answer is that they shouldn't, we're in this place largely because the 3rd way DLC idiots did exactly that and see where that got us.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:08
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DC Murderverse posted:there's one book in there that should ever be anywhere near a public high school or, really, people in general. Which one, cause those all look pretty heinous.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:09
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https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/877648446789898240 Surprise, the senate health bill sucks.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:09
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marshmonkey posted:https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/877617717460836352 Isn't that "lies my teacher told me" super critical of American history from a mostly correct, left leaning perspective
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Jun 21, 2017 23:10
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DC Murderverse posted:there's one book in there that should ever be anywhere near a public high school or, really, people in general. Which one because I see about 31.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:11
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mcconnell looks like gary oldman from that hannibal film
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Jun 21, 2017 23:11
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Stairmaster posted:What timeline are you living in and how can we shift to it? I'm describing the House version of the bill, which they passed fairly decisively. We ended up with the Lieberman/Nelson/McCaskill butchered Senate version. My point is that she can get fairly progressive bills through the House, and will probably have a further left caucus to work with next time the Dems take it.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:12
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EwokEntourage posted:Isn't that "lies my teacher told me" super critical of American history from a mostly correct, left leaning perspective I guess a sleeper agent snuck it in.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:14
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Skex posted:
Uh, it got us the White House in 92, 96, 08, and 12, after a generation out of power? I'm just saying branding matters. I'm not saying we need to throw out Pelosi, I like Pelosi. I'm wondering whether we'd do better in elections if Tim Ryan had won the leadership challenge. It's not impossible and you're being kind of a dick.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:14
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EwokEntourage posted:Isn't that "lies my teacher told me" super critical of American history from a mostly correct, left leaning perspective you might be thinking of people's history of the united states, which has problems of overzealousness but is the first leftist history most people would encounter lies my teacher told me is more about the failings of the public education system in teaching history and how eurocentric and american exceptionalist american history is often portrayed as in schools. i can see why it's on the list near the libertarian dont trust authority books but that book in particular is pretty good and sticks out oddly on the list superfreakonomics isn't bad necessarily but it's not good either and there are some books on there i can't place which could be ok i guess?
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Jun 21, 2017 23:15
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Nothus posted:https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/877648446789898240 Welp.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:15
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Nothus posted:https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/877648446789898240 Boy would I not want to be on the Senate baseball team when this thing gets out in the wild
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Jun 21, 2017 23:18
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I think the House was 800 billion in cuts over a 10 year period. So this seems like they want way more than that which is going to be devastating
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Jun 21, 2017 23:19
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boner confessor posted:you might be thinking of people's history of the united states, which has problems of overzealousness but is the first leftist history most people would encounter Yea, it's about how they teach history wrong, like make the founder fathers into super heroes and poo poo. I gusss I just associate "being correct about history" with left leaning, draw your own conclusions Wasn't thinking A people's history of the United States Freakonomic books are trash
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Jun 21, 2017 23:20
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EwokEntourage posted:Yea, it's about how they teach history wrong, like make the founder fathers into super heroes and poo poo. I gusss I just associate "being correct about history" with left leaning, draw your own conclusions lies my teacher told me is definitely left leaning but it's not a history text but rather baby's first historiography and historical criticism, the kind of thing you'd give a bookish teenager who dislikes the man but isn't sure why
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Jun 21, 2017 23:22
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