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Tiggum posted:He's overlooking a pretty obvious point here. If snakes were as intelligent as they seem to parselmouths, muggles would almost certainly know about it. That's an inconsistency that suggests he's missing some key information. When a parselmouth talks to a snake, the snake seems about as intelligent as a human. When anyone else interacts with a snake, the snake demonstrates no such cognitive ability. So either snakes are hiding their intelligence from the vast majority of humans for some reason, or they're not actually that smart and there's some other explanation for why they seem to be to certain individuals. That should be your first avenue of investigation. Obviously parselmouth taps into the intelligence of the platonic ideal of the mythological snake for the duration of the conversation. Snakes are universally seen symbolically by man as creatures of great wisdom and cunning. Their reputation as tricksters is commonplace (but not universal) and whether their nature is benign, mischievous or malevolent is more malleable. You are talking to the Ur-serpent.
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# ? Jun 21, 2017 22:34 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 00:23 |
Parseltongue is just a form of mind magic to allow you to program snake nervous systems and extract stored data using a verbal interface. Your will is ultimately what's guiding the snake, like the Imperius curse.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 06:24 |
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Either of those explanation is more plausible than "snakes have secretly been as intelligent as humans this whole time and no one noticed".
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 06:36 |
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Unless I'm forgetting something it never seems like snakes are unusually intelligent in the books anyway, with the obvious exception of Nagini.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 06:39 |
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Unless I'm forgetting something it never seems like snakes are unusually intelligent in the books anyway, with the obvious exception of Nagini. The very first bit of magic we get is a snake that knows it's supposed to be from Brazil despite being raised in captivity, and also apparently knows how to read.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 06:48 |
reignonyourparade posted:The very first bit of magic we get is a snake that knows it's supposed to be from Brazil despite being raised in captivity, and also apparently knows how to read. Because Harry knows these things, and childishly expects the snake (which is partially real and partially constructed by Harry's magic) to know them, too.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 06:59 |
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reignonyourparade posted:The very first bit of magic we get is a snake that knows it's supposed to be from Brazil despite being raised in captivity, and also apparently knows how to read. Fair enough. It's been ages since I've read the books, and the snake in the movie version isn't quite as capable (it only does the second part).
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 07:06 |
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Second hypothesis: In Muggle terms, Parseltongue is a very advanced chatbot that can access your surface consciousness and an external knowledge database to simulate the illusion of intelligence in snake on human conversation.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 07:34 |
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Pvt.Scott posted:Second hypothesis: In Muggle terms, Parseltongue is a very advanced chatbot that can access your surface consciousness and an external knowledge database to simulate the illusion of intelligence in snake on human conversation. Probably coded in Python.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 07:37 |
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Dalris Othaine posted:Probably coded in Python.
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# ? Jun 22, 2017 07:56 |
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Chapter 49: Prior Informationquote:Hello, Professor Quirrell," Harry said without letting his eyes move again from the direction of their carriage. Also, I have no idea what accusations Harriezer might be making now. Dementor conspiracy theories? He hasn't actually learned anything. quote:Harry still hadn't decided what he was allowed to eat for lunch. quote:Harry kept his face steady. "I was looking up some facts about the Patronus Charm earlier," he said. "According to The Patronus Charm: Wizards Who Could and Couldn't, it turns out that Godric couldn't and Salazar could. I was surprised, so I looked up the reference, in Four Lives of Power. And then I discovered that Salazar Slytherin could supposedly talk to snakes." (Temporal sequence wasn't the same as causation, it wasn't Harry's fault if Professor Quirrell missed that.) "Further research turned up an old story about a mother goddess type who could talk to flying squirrels. I was a bit worried about the prospect of eating something that could talk." 1. Lucius is dumb, dumb, REALLY loving DUMB. Possibly even dumber than he is in the original series, if you can imagine that. 2. Lucius (as far as we know) has no real plans or aspirations that could not be achieved by assassinating Dumbledore outright. Which... shouldn't really be that much of a problem for the ruthless heir to an evil / racist / dark magic-ish / slytherin house, even a retarded one. ... With that said, the real meat of the conversation is about the goals and history of Slytherin's monster: quote:. The Headmaster further argues that this favors the interpretation that the Chamber of Secrets was indeed opened in 1943, approximately the right time frame for He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, a known Parselmouth, to have attended Hogwarts. It is a rather questionable logic, but a judicial panel may rule that it swings the case far enough to bring Mr. Hagrid's guilt into doubt, if they can manage to keep a straight face as they say it. And now we come to the key question: how did the Headmaster discover this hidden spell on the Sorting Hat?" Seriously. The interdict of Merlin has zero reason to actually be in the story. It doesn't affect anything - it's just a random complication that is swiftly bypassed and ignored. quote:Harry was grinning now, a very evil grin. New priority: Find everything in Hogwarts that looks remotely like a snake and try speaking to it. Starting with everything you've already tried, only this time be sure to use Parseltongue instead of English - get Draco to let you into the Slytherin dorms - Then Quirrell casts 30 spells to ensure their privacy which... I'm not much of an author, but a powerful wizard trying to relate a secret should really settle things with 1-3 spells. 30 goes past "expert in security", past "paranoid" and into purely ineffectual. quote:A serious secret, Mr. Potter," Professor Quirrell said. His eyes were intent, his face grave. "One which could potentially send me to Azkaban. Think about it before you reply." quote:The snake's eyes were flat surfaces ensconced within dark pits, sharp black pupils in dark gray fields. "This iss mosst ssecure way to sspeak. You ssee? No otherss undersstand uss." quote:at Harry. "Animaguss musst be regisstered. Penalty is two yearss imprissonment. Will you keep my ssecret, boy? " ... quote:"Hermione is having trouble, though, and I was wondering if you might have any suggestions for her."
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# ? Jun 23, 2017 15:09 |
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Ah, factual errors.quote:This is not a puzzle you can solve on your own, Mr. Potter, so I will reveal the answer. Over the winter holiday, I was alerted to the fact that the Headmaster had filed a request for a closed judicial panel to review the case of one Mr. Rubeus Hagrid, whom you know as the Keeper of Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts, and who was accused of the murder of Abigail Myrtle in 1943." Surprising nobody, this is wrong. Myrtle is her given name. We didn't find out her surname until someone asked Rowling after the series was over (it's Warren) but Myrtle has always been her first name. I don't know what to say about HPMoR otherwise other than 'this is kind of awful'. Good on you for keeping up with it.
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# ? Jun 23, 2017 15:30 |
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On Phil Sandifer's Tumblr last night:quote:deathchrist2000 asked: Chapter 49 of HPMR details Voldemort's slaying of the basilisk underneath Hogwarts, so as to keep the dark truth revealed to him a secret from the rest of the world (I only found this out due to backlog in my DA account forcing me to move old works I liked on the site from years ago into new folders). The little research I could find on the timeline of events places this chapter roughly a year after Roko's Basilisk. Does this add anything of note to Neoreaction a Basilisk? edit: yes, some bastard bought this avatar at me
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# ? Jun 23, 2017 17:20 |
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uggghh, I can't remember if the snakes in the series ssspoke with the sssibilant esssesss but I'm pretty sure if they did it wasn't a drawn out, serious conversation about plots and secrets and jail time. Kind of ruins the vibe he's going for, I think. and... ok, so Harry realizing that either snakes are sentient or magic can make them sentient- but then going all the way to the wild conclusion that he shouldn't eat his vegetables, that could be kind of charming. Like he's eleven, that sort of characterization could be fun. But here it's just... it doesn't mesh at all with an eleven year old seriously plotting to take over the world, or achieve immortality or talking about the dozens of ways he could kill people or whatever the gently caress. Just a lot of tonal whiplash. Or like, from an outside perspective there's no difference between him freaking out about carrots and any of the other poo poo he gets up to, except that one is zany to Yud to it's obviously a joke and one is serious so give him money. Undermines "Harry the uber-rational genius scientist", I guess. No self-awareness. Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 23, 2017 |
# ? Jun 23, 2017 19:06 |
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I read this amazing review of The Book of Henry last night and couldn't help but think of HPMOR It sounds a lot like a non-magical version of Harry, complete with the bizarre plots, mistrust of adults making adult decisions, and lecturing to classmates about the Right Way to do things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz8R2xxeyaA thathappened.wav posted:"Henry, remind me again why we can't put you in a gifted school?"
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 04:29 |
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This is just a whole lot of convoluted bullshit that I suspect doesn't even matter to the story, so I just want to say how much I hate that gimmick of him having the voices of the four "houses" of his subconscious talking to him in his head.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 07:53 |
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naptalan posted:I read this amazing review of The Book of Henry last night and couldn't help but think of HPMOR It sounds a lot like a non-magical version of Harry, complete with the bizarre plots, mistrust of adults making adult decisions, and lecturing to classmates about the Right Way to do things. Holy gently caress that review. I read the review on The Atlantic and was reminded of HPMoR, but gently caress, that was a wild ride.
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# ? Jun 25, 2017 16:16 |
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Mazerunner posted:uggghh, I can't remember if the snakes in the series ssspoke with the sssibilant esssesss but I'm pretty sure if they did it wasn't a drawn out, serious conversation about plots and secrets and jail time. Kind of ruins the vibe he's going for, I think. They do. 'Thanksss, amigo' as early as book one. But, as you note, it was not a long conversation. Could be worse though. Voldemort does a long conversation... like this... with no full stops, ever... for quite a while... Prism fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jun 25, 2017 |
# ? Jun 25, 2017 16:32 |
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Chapter 50: Self Centeredness In which Harriezer attempts to salvage Hermione's reputation by donning his invisiblity cloak and going "boogity boogity" at Padma Patil: quote:The whispering sigh came again, soft and dangerous with a slight hissing undertone. quote:Again the soft laugh. "Harry Potter has been in the Ravenclaw common room for the last half-hour, helping Kevin Entwhistle and Michael Corner rehearse Potions recipes. But it matters not. I am here to deliver a warning to you, Padma Patil, and if you choose to ignore it, that is your own affair." quote:"Oh, don't be afraid," breathed the voice. "I will not hurt you. For you see, Padma Patil, Hermione Granger truly is innocent. She does not stand on the precipice, she is not falling. She did not ask her allies to refrain from hurting you, because the thought did not even occur to her as a possibility. And Harry Potter knows very well that if he hurt you or caused you to be hurt, for Hermione Granger's sake, then she would never speak to him again until the Sun burned low and the last star failed in the night sky." The voice was very sad now. "She truly is a kindly girl, a person such as I could only wish to be..." quote:You did not choose sides when you went to Ravenclaw, girl. You choose your side by the way you live your life, what you do to other people and what you do to yourself. Will you illuminate others' lives, or darken them? That is the choice between Light and Dark, not any word the Sorting Hat cries out. And the hard part, Padma Patil, is not saying 'Light', the hard part is deciding which is which, and admitting it to yourself when you begin down the wrong road." Let's just keep blathering and burying it under a pile of though: quote:"I have not always chosen rightly between Light and Dark," the whisper said, now loud and harsh directly into her ear. "Do not take my wisdom as a final word, girl, do not fear to question it, for though I tried I have sometimes failed, oh, yes, I have failed. But you are hurting a true innocent, and you will achieve none of your ambitions by doing so, it is not for any cunning plan. You are inflicting pain purely for the sake of the pleasure it brings you. I have not always chosen rightly between Light and Dark, but that I know for darkness, for certain. You are hurting an innocent girl, and escaping retribution only because she is too kindly to tolerate her allies moving against you. I cannot hurt you for that, so know only that I cannot respect it. You are unworthy of Slytherin; go and do your Herbology homework, Ravenclaw girl!" So she runs into the Ravenclaw dorm: quote:Padma was already striding toward the pentagonal table. She looked at Harry Potter, who was looking at her with his own gaze, calm and grave and a little sad. See? Lesson definitely learned. quote:And she talked about a lot of things with Harry Potter besides lomillialor wood - even her fear of falling back into harmony with Parvati, which she'd never talked about with anyone before, but then Harry's ghostly ally already knew. And Harry had reached into his pouch and pulled out some odd books, loaning them to her on condition of complete secrecy, saying that if she could comprehend those books it would change the pattern of her thinking enough that she'd never fall into harmony with Parvati again... quote:Earlier: quote:When Padma sat down with Hermione for breakfast, and said in a voice loud enough for others to hear that the ghost had just told her things that were important for her to hear, and Harry Potter had been right to do it, there were some people who were less frightened afterward, and some who were frightened more. See guys, my author-insert character can be wrong. Sorta. Kinda. Really. I swear. Except not really, obviously.
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# ? Jun 26, 2017 12:20 |
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This section is way too long and rambling, but my biggest problem with it is that it really doesn't seem like Padma should be scared? She knows all along that it's Harry being a dick, and all he's apparently doing is making some surprisingly astute guesses about her and telling her she should be a better person? She even thinks it's a ghost doing his bidding, and aren't ghosts essentially harmless? But also it's way too long and rambling.
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# ? Jun 26, 2017 15:31 |
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Xander77 posted:Then Quirrell casts 30 spells to ensure their privacy which... I'm not much of an author, but a powerful wizard trying to relate a secret should really settle things with 1-3 spells. 30 goes past "expert in security", past "paranoid" and into purely ineffectual. Why exactly did he decide that snakes talk like cavemen? Snakes are quite erudite in the books. And even if they were too stupid to speak with proper grammar, why would that cause Harry and Quirrell to stop doing so?
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# ? Jun 27, 2017 01:47 |
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Stroth posted:Why exactly did he decide that snakes talk like cavemen? Snakes are quite erudite in the books. And even if they were too stupid to speak with proper grammar, why would that cause Harry and Quirrell to stop doing so?
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# ? Jun 27, 2017 06:12 |
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Xander77 posted:Apparently Yud decided that snakes do have a language, with it's own lovely syntax, grammar, and vocabulary. The last one, at least, is explicitly confirmed with "there's no word for X in snake". Please tell me he Sapir-Whorfs it up and/or attempts to reverse-engineer the development of snakese from the vocabulary and grammar
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# ? Jun 27, 2017 07:17 |
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Tunicate posted:Please tell me he Sapir-Whorfs it up and/or attempts to reverse-engineer the development of snakese from the vocabulary and grammar
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# ? Jun 27, 2017 12:19 |
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Speaking of, if anyone wants to read a novel by a good author that talks about languages that can't be lied in, Embassytown by China Mieville is really really good.
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# ? Jun 28, 2017 04:48 |
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Chapter 51: Title Redacted, Pt 1quote:Harry had run into trouble falling asleep Friday night, which he had anticipated might happen, and so he had decided to take the obvious advance precaution of buying a sleeping potion; and to prevent it from constituting a visible sign that he was nervous, he had decided to buy it off Fred and George a couple of months earlier. (Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout's marching song...) quote:Professor Quirrell finished his Charms - It's really not that complex, except the author wants to impress us. Quirrelmort turns into a snake, and Harriezer carries him out under the cloak, into a different secure location, 6 hours before they entered. quote:Step twelve. ... quote:"Mr. Potter, the central branch of Gringotts is guarded by every spell high and low that the goblins know. Even so those vaults have been successfully robbed; for what wizardry can do, wizardry can undo. And yet no one has ever escaped from Azkaban. No one. For every Charm there is a counter-Charm, for every ward there is a bypass. How can it be that no one has ever been rescued from Azkaban?"
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# ? Jun 28, 2017 06:59 |
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Chapter 52: The Stanford Prison Experiment, Pt 2quote:The adrenaline was already flowing in Harry's veins, his heart already hammering in his chest, there in that darkened and bankrupt store. Professor Quirrell had finished explaining, and in one hand, Harry held a tiny wooden twig that would be the key. This was it, this was the day and the moment when Harry started acting the part. His first true adventure, a dungeon to be pierced, an evil government to be defied, a maiden in distress to be rescued. Harry should have been more frightened, more reluctant, but instead he felt only that it was time and past time to start becoming the people he had read about in his books; to begin his journey toward what he had always known he was meant to be, a hero. To take the first step on the road that led to Kimball Kinnison and Captain Picard and Liono of Thundera and definitely not Raistlin Majere. So far as Harry's brain knew from watching early morning cartoons, when you grew up you were supposed to gain amazing powers and save the universe, that was what Harry's brain had seen adults doing and adopted as its role model for the maturation process, and Harry very much wanted to start growing up. 2. The gently caress is with that highly specific Mario analogy? quote:There was a popping sound as something near Harry disappeared, and then there was no more time for heroic brooding. ... quote:He was surrounded by wind and rain, it might have been five degrees Celsius if he was lucky; he'd already had a Warming Charm cast on himself just from being outside in February, but it wasn't standing up to the driving cold droplets. Worse than snow, the rain soaked into every exposed surface. The Cloak of Invisibility turned all of you invisible, but it didn't cover all of you, and that meant it didn't protect all of you from rain. Harry's face was exposed to the full force of the driven water, and it was driving straight into his neck and soaking down into his shirt, also the sleeves of his robes and the cuffs of his pants and his shoes, the water took every bit of cloth as an avenue to sneak in. quote:"I can already feel the Dementors," said the gravelly voice of the Polyjuiced Quirrell. "I did not expect that, not this soon." quote:Descending through the illusory roof while invisible was a strange experience, and then Harry found himself in a metal corridor lighted with a dim orange light - which, Harry realized after a startled glance, was coming from an old-fashioned mantled gas lamp... quote:They went down, and down, and down, passing gas lamp after gas lamp, and the occasional huge metal door, descending into Azkaban within what seemed like utter silence. Professor Quirrell had set up some type of barrier by which he could hear what went on nearby, but no sounds could pass outward, and no sounds could reach Harry. What Harriezer should really be asking, is what Quirrel gets out of it. quote:The first cell Harry looked at contained a dessicated corpse, skin gone grey and mottled, flesh worn through in places to expose the bone beneath, no eyes -
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# ? Jul 1, 2017 08:07 |
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Xander77 posted:99% convinced that waterproofing is a simple existing spell within the Potterverse. Even if there isn't a canonical example, easy waterproofing is exactly the sort of thing Potter magic does. Impervius. They use it all the time.
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# ? Jul 1, 2017 16:45 |
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MikeJF posted:Impervius. They use it all the time. But Harry doesn't, in first year; he lets Hermione do it to his glasses halfway through a game when he couldn't see in the rain, because it hadn't occurred to him to do it himself.
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# ? Jul 2, 2017 00:55 |
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Prism posted:But Harry doesn't, in first year; he lets Hermione do it to his glasses halfway through a game when he couldn't see in the rain, because it hadn't occurred to him to do it himself. cause Harry's a goober who just does the minimum, Hermione's an over-achiever who looked ahead for useful or neat things Elizarry should be like Hermione, just gobbling up every spell and tidbit of information he can get his hands on, but he'd prefer to wank off over how smart he is.
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# ? Jul 2, 2017 01:25 |
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Mazerunner posted:cause Harry's a goober who just does the minimum, Hermione's an over-achiever who looked ahead for useful or neat things To him, someone who has to work at it isn't actually smart.
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# ? Jul 2, 2017 01:33 |
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Really, Yud missed his chance at glory by being born long after the American Technocracy stuff was en vogue in the 1930s. He woulda killed to be a Technocrat. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy Be a politician but your excuse is you're smarter than everybody else, so you get to run things! Think of all the intellectual slack-wanking he could have dreamed of.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 02:16 |
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bewilderment posted:Speaking of, if anyone wants to read a novel by a good author that talks about languages that can't be lied in, Embassytown by China Mieville is really really good. Great book... anything by China Mieville is a good read.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 03:21 |
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Just curious, but is there still an active Harry Potter thread in this subforum about the canon books?
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 12:44 |
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Chapter 53: The Stanford Prison Experiment, Pt 3quote:The corpse of a woman opened her eyes, and the dull sunken orbs gazed out at nothing. quote:The cringing servant opened the door to Bellatrix's cage, and pulled a tiny needle from his robes with which he poked the human skeleton. The single drop of red blood produced was soon absorbed into a small doll, which was laid upon the floor, and the servant began to chant in a whisper.
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 17:33 |
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"We built a super-secure prison and don't bother to make basic checks to see if our prisoners' corpses are just Transfigured fakes." Mind you, the canon version isn't much better about it.
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# ? Jul 5, 2017 04:16 |
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Xander77 posted:Do we know what condition Bellatrix and other prisoners of Azkaban were canonically found in? Shouldn't they be better in a universe where souls are not a thing?
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# ? Jul 5, 2017 05:16 |
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Liquid Communism posted:"We built a super-secure prison and don't bother to make basic checks to see if our prisoners' corpses are just Transfigured fakes." Mind you, the canon version isn't much better about it.
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# ? Jul 5, 2017 07:01 |
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Tiggum posted:A bunch of people (including Sirius and Bellatrix) escape from Azkaban and don't seem to be too much the worse for wear. It's definitely a very unpleasant place, but not even close to as bad as it is in this version. Sirius at least was partially protected by turning into a dog, since dementors don't work so well on animals.
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# ? Jul 5, 2017 07:24 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 00:23 |
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The three people main we see who spent a fair bit of time in Azkaban (Sirius, Bellatrix, and Barty Crouch Junior) all seem somewhat unhinged, although they might have been like that going in. Hagrid's stay was much shorter and he described it like this:quote:"An' them dementors make me feel ruddy terrible an' all," said Hagrid, with a shudder. "Gotta walk past 'em ev'ry time I want a drink in The Three Broomsticks. 'S like bein' back in Azkaban -" Xander77 posted:Just wait until we actually get the detailed security arrangements. They jump schizophrenically between "this is the ultimate in Auror safeguards, and our heroes are totally Not much different from how the Philosopher's Stone was guarded then.
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# ? Jul 5, 2017 11:02 |