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Aves Maria! posted:are you ever not making GBS threads your pants over the worst possible future outcome? Dude, that's literally their plan. Like 100% no one here would disagree that's why they set things to take effect in 2020. They expect to lose the house and senate and Presidency by then and plan to use the fallout of this bill to get back into office. They did it with the original ACA, for that matter.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:46
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Alter Ego posted:Now the followup question at every presser should be "If there are no tapes, why did Trump imply that there were?" No video or audio exists of any confirmations or denials of the existence of tapes and I can neither confirm nor deny any reporters even asked this question as the presser may or may not have existed.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:46
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Fart City posted:Dens really need to get into the branding game, here. By the time Obamacare got this far (relatively speaking, I know the two situations don't align exactly), "death panels" had already entered the public lexicon. Was it absurd? Sure. Misleading? Yup. Did it stick? Absolutely. This bill is going to straight-up kill people. It's time to start banging the cups on the jail bars. "The Bill From Hell" "SB 50205 otherwise known as the "Kill Your Grandma" Bill" "Let Americans Die in the Streets Act" Just start naming it that every single time you refer to it. Branding people. "Sir I rise in opposition to the the Let Americans Die in the Streets Act."
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Jun 22, 2017 17:47
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Spiritus Nox posted:I mean, you don't take back bills. You pass new ones. New ones need to be signed by the president. Even if Trump is impeached, it's unlikely we'll get anyone who would undo the closest things the GOP's likely to get to signature legislation before 2020. actually, the Take Backsies Act of 1902 tells us Covok posted:They expect to lose the house and senate and Presidency by then and plan to use the fallout of this bill to get back into office. They did it with the original ACA, for that matter. what? no. that's not at all what happened with the ACA
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Jun 22, 2017 17:48
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Aves Maria! posted:idk, but I don't think dank memes are what the Dems need in this instance. The problem is it's so loving bad that anything you say which describes it accurately gets met with either "it can't really be that bad you must be a partisan" equivocation, or " technically it's not genocide" semantic quibbling.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:48
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Is this even true? EvilWeasel needs to chime in. fixing stuff requires legislation, which means in 2018-2020 you need trump's signature, but you can potentially get that in other ways: put in small riders in the budget to postpone stuff/ameliorate it/etc and dare him to shut down the government over it (the Republicans did that to some aspects of Obamacare, small sabotages that managed to make it into law). you're not getting a veto-proof majority, of course. how much damage is done in the interim before 2020 all depends on the details, you could theoretically reverse this immediately on January 20, 2020 if you abolish the filibuster but it may take time to actually implement actions to reverse the damage, which again depends on the details
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Jun 22, 2017 17:49
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/877925724031770624 Jesus Christ.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The problem is it's so loving bad that anything you say which describes it accurately gets met with either "it can't really be that bad you must be a partisan" equivocation, or " technically it's not genocide" semantic quibbling. well yeah, but that's just the entire reason the Republican party exists at this point. A whole lot of "they couldn't be that evil!"
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Jun 22, 2017 17:49
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BarbarianElephant posted:Why are Democrats so bad at snappy phrasing, when it's not exactly unknown that most of Hollywood's creative people and the media are Democrats? They should be the best at this. This is what I'm talking about. People keep saying "oh well, it's a terrible loving bill and that should be good enough," but that's the same base logic that got Trump elected in the first place. American politics has evolved to a place of hyper-branding not unlike what you would see on reality television (which, again, Trump). And people have been shown to respond to it. The new bill is called the "Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017." It's deliberately vague and clunky, and if you asked Joe Q. Public in your office what it was, there's a good chance they wouldn't be able to give you an answer. We all clucked our tongues at "Make America Great Again," but it worked. It was refined reactionary stupidity that hit with laser-focused accuracy. Dems really need to recalibrate how they present information to the public. Because as annoying as it is, memed politics is becoming more and more of a battlefield in the world today. Tart Kitty fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 17:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The problem is it's so loving bad that anything you say which describes it accurately gets met with either "it can't really be that bad you must be a partisan" equivocation, or " technically it's not genocide" semantic quibbling.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:50
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/877925724031770624 Jesus christ is that an image. 
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Jun 22, 2017 17:50
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This is extremely good news: https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/877930939460050944 Since those haven't been pre-blessed, there's a reasonable chance they're stricken which may provoke a conservative revolt.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:51
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Remember when everyone here thought repealing the ACA would be a political impossibility after it had been in effect for a couple years?
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Jun 22, 2017 17:52
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Ravenfood posted:Right. Its worse than (iirc) Ryan's tax plans which people just refused to believe were that vile, and people remember that "death panels" weren't a think so if you start screaming about "telling grandma die in the street" they'll think you're just doing the same thing the GOP did over the ACA. But then Grandma dies in the street and maybe they will exercise that neglected grey matter and remember it at the polls.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:53
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Really, at this point punching fascists should extend to police as well
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Jun 22, 2017 17:53
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Petr posted:Remember when everyone here thought repealing the ACA would be a political impossibility after it had been in effect for a couple years? That's nothing! I'm so old I remember when an idiot like Trump could never get elected!
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Jun 22, 2017 17:53
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Party Plane Jones posted:
This poo poo is terrifying because I'll loving guarantee you most of these databases are not setup to tell if they have been changed. Low level auditing and transaction logging are the first things that get turned off when you have a budget crunch.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:54
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BarbarianElephant posted:But then Grandma dies in the street and maybe they will exercise that neglected grey matter and remember it at the polls. "Not my fuckin' grandma."
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Jun 22, 2017 17:54
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Petr posted:Remember when everyone here thought repealing the ACA would be a political impossibility after it had been in effect for a couple years? I don't mean to rain on your parade but it's a) not repealed yet and b) if it does get repealed, it's likely to cost the Rs more than the ACA did the Dems, just going by how much people hate hate hate the AHCA/whatever they decide to call it.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:54
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BarbarianElephant posted:But then Grandma dies in the street and maybe they will exercise that neglected grey matter and remember it at the polls.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:55
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ImpAtom posted:Jesus christ is that an image. https://twitter.com/Shareblue/status/877932067039981568 https://twitter.com/MKhan47/status/877913261479350273 https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/877922940867813376 edit: the idiot has spoken https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877932956458795008
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Jun 22, 2017 17:55
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Covok posted:Dude, that's literally their plan. Like 100% no one here would disagree that's why they set things to take effect in 2020. They expect to lose the house and senate and Presidency by then and plan to use the fallout of this bill to get back into office. They did it with the original ACA, for that matter. McConnell doesn't plan on losing any of those things.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:56
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Republicans filibustering any improvements from AHCA level assuming they get AHCA passed and Dems don't get a filibuster proof majority while the worst(?) of the changes don't come into effect until a possible democratic takeover in 2020 leaving a Dem congress with the mess and possible popular blame for all the worst parts sounds like the most reasonably predictable thing ever to me. Unless there's some procedural magic that can be done, or AHCA can be likewise undone with the reconciliation process, which I do not know.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:57
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Aves Maria! posted:I don't mean to rain on your parade but it's a) not repealed yet and b) if it does get repealed, it's likely to cost the Rs more than the ACA did the Dems, just going by how much people hate hate hate the AHCA/whatever they decide to call it. I'm not having any parade, believe me. And I know it's not repealed yet and may not be, but it's obviously not a political impossibility.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:58
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877932907137966080 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877932956458795008 So he admits he lied about there being tapes.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:58
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Party Plane Jones posted:edit: Its a dodge. "I did not make any recordings". Is different from "No recordings were ever made".
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Jun 22, 2017 17:58
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https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/877932005593300993
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Jun 22, 2017 17:59
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Setting things up for AHCA to detonate just as Democrats get power back seems like a great way to make single-payer unstoppable.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:59
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BarbarianElephant posted:But then Grandma dies in the street and maybe they will exercise that neglected grey matter and remember it at the polls. It's going to be funny watching the average life expectancy of the US drop to mid 60s soon.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:59
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I think this might be the singular instance of "Trump's trying to distract us!" that I agree with.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:00
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twice burned ice posted:My Gary Johnson voting mother (
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Jun 22, 2017 18:00
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) is now convinced that singe player is the best option because she's convinced that the government is obligated to pay poor citizens healthcare costs regardless, so we might as well do it as efficiently as possible.
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Xae posted:Its a dodge. Not that it's really important right now, but I believe that any phone White House phone conversations are recorded as standard policy.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:00
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Kylra posted:Republicans filibustering any improvements from AHCA level assuming they get AHCA passed and Dems don't get a filibuster proof majority while the worst(?) of the changes don't come into effect until a possible democratic takeover in 2020 leaving a Dem congress with the mess and possible popular blame for all the worst parts sounds like the most reasonably predictable thing ever to me. Unless there's some procedural magic that can be done, or AHCA can be likewise undone with the reconciliation process, which I do not know. That's a pretty big gamble, and it's quite likely that people would remember that "hey, Republicans tried really hard to push through a healthcare bill 3 years ago and now everything is loving awful". Unless, of course, we just assume the worst possible scenario will come to pass in every conceivable situation.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:01
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Not that it's really important right now, but I believe that any phone White House phone conversations are recorded as standard policy. Yeah Comey said he was asked to call the White House switchboard at least once. Not sure if others were from cell phones.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:01
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/Shareblue/status/877932067039981568 Welp I feel physically ill.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:01
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Not that it's really important right now, but I believe that any phone White House phone conversations are recorded as standard policy. I thought the one meeting where Trump stated Comey cleared him of any investigation was in the Oval Office.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:02
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evilweasel posted:fixing stuff requires legislation, which means in 2018-2020 you need trump's signature, but you can potentially get that in other ways: put in small riders in the budget to postpone stuff/ameliorate it/etc and dare him to shut down the government over it (the Republicans did that to some aspects of Obamacare, small sabotages that managed to make it into law). you're not getting a veto-proof majority, of course. If the Dems gain control in 2018 they need to just name everything "Trump is the best and most handsome man alive act of 2019" and there will be no vetos. HappyHippo fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 18:02
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TARDISman posted:Welp I feel physically ill. McConnell will probably be able to skip his Viagra after seeing that.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:02
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fsif posted:I think this might be the singular instance of "Trump's trying to distract us!" that I agree with. ...why? Going "yeah you got me I lied" does more to close the debate on that issue than reopen it, especially when a major bill just dropped, and especially when most people seemed to have been running with that expectation for a while anyway. "I have tapes and I'm not going to share them" or something along those lines would make a way bigger splash.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:02
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