Star Wars: Millenial Trash Discussion Station

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Veshpo: May 23, 2016

Basebf555 posted:

They don't have to now, but what happens 5-7 years from now(or beyond) when all the ideas have run dry and the box office receipts aren't what they used to be? There aren't infinite cards they can play to get people back once the interest has waned, and Vader is one of the most effective they could possibly throw out.

Now, maybe you say that the interest will never go down, Star Wars will still be effortlessly make billions ten years from now. I'm not so sure about that.

By the time people are suffering Star Wars fatigue, I don't know if Vader coming back to the numbered episodes is really going to accomplish much if he's never really gone away to begin with. You don't think he'll find a way to pop up in every one of these OT-era prequels?

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:06

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 21:07

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Lord Hydronium posted:

That was originally going to be the plot of the Dark Empire comic, but Lucas vetoed it, so they went with Palpatine coming back instead.

Wow. It's strange to think a Lucas veto is what turned Palpatine from "weird, old dude who likely fucks kids and shoots lighting from his hands" into "the grand evil wizard trying to turn the Empire in a theocracy of the darkside who writes books on how to be evil and wants to kidnap the Solo twins so he can go inside them."

Covok fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 22, 2017

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:07

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

Veshpo posted:

By the time people are suffering Star Wars fatigue, I don't know if Vader coming back to the numbered episodes is really going to accomplish much if he's never really gone away to begin with. You don't think he'll find a way to pop up in every one of these OT-era prequels?

Right now there still seems to be come extra cache surrounding the numbered entries that represent the ongoing saga from the OT. So I think there would definitely be a lot of added hype surrounding Vader's reappearance there, but you're probably right that if we get to the point that Disney is desperate enough to try it, it would probably already be too late. Whether Disney would realize that is another story though.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:09

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Basebf555 posted:

I do wonder about Vader. Not that it would happen any time soon, but how desperate would Disney have to get to bring him back and retcon his death? In this era of never ending Star Wars I feel like its inevitable, Vader will definitely be back at some point.

It's always seemed like there's a movie waiting to be made about how Vader gets back home after flying off into space in a disabled TIE fighter at the end of A New Hope. Maybe he lands on a small uncolomized planet and finds a rebel base or something.

I don't know if they would retcon his death, but I could definitely see Disney:Lucasfilm exploiting every free minute the character didn't explicitly already have on screen.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:13

well why not: Feb 10, 2009

Cleverly, the comic series focuses on side characters and gives Vader very minimal dialogue. The more time he's chatting onscreen, the less exciting his presence is. He's definitely more exciting when he just shows up to wreck poo poo.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:18

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; Whatever.

The REAL Goobusters posted:

It just proves that the Star Wars movies are gonna be really boring focus tested movies going forward. Which was already the case with the last two but at least force awakens was fun and the first new not poo poo one in years.

Who is it being focus tested on? I've seen this criticism leveled before but I can recall no hint that this happened with TFA or Rogue One. If it's being looked at by people in production, then that's normal...

TFA shooting problems consisted of working around Ford's injury, and some additional reshoot beats to beef up the Rey and Finn relationship.

Rogue One's seem to consist of toning down Jyn's bad snark (which was criticized in almost universal trailer feedback, if you call that focus testing), reworking Saw's scene, relocating Vader's intro from a Star Destroyer to Mustafar and making a cut/recombine to the final battle to make what was once two locations into one.

All those seemingly made the movies better?

I think one could easily argue that Lucasfilm needs to get their poo poo together ahead of time. This quick turn around time on sequels and spin-offs is showing it's cracks. Normally they would have 3 years to work on these things and they're doing in a third of the time now. They're going in with scripts which might not be up to snuff and then banking on reshoots to fix any problems.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:28

jivjov: Sep 13, 2007; But how does it taste? Yummy!; Dinosaur Gum

I don't think there's a whole lot of overlap in crew between the ST and the anthology films. Still means there's a 2 year turnaround; but it's not quite as dire

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:34

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

jivjov posted:

I don't think there's a whole lot of overlap in crew between the ST and the anthology films.

Just ILM. But that's kind of a big one.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:40

Veshpo: May 23, 2016

well why not posted:

Cleverly, the comic series focuses on side characters and gives Vader very minimal dialogue. The more time he's chatting onscreen, the less exciting his presence is. He's definitely more exciting when he just shows up to wreck poo poo.

So kind of like later Gunsmoke episodes where most of the episodes would focus on a guest star, or Festus or some poo poo and then Matt would just show up in the last ten minutes to kill the bad guys and set things straight.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:41

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Timby posted:

I'm surprised they haven't already announced another "Star Wars Story" movie that goes into the Empire smashing the poo poo out of Yavin after the Death Star is destroyed, and then two hours of the rebels running away from Imperial forces and finally winding up on Hoth.

Because, you know, everything needs to be explained.

There was a bonus mission in one of the Rogue Squadron games (I think it was Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader) that had you play as Darth Vader taking out Rebels who were trying to escape Yavin.

fake edit: Yup, it was Rogue Leader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifn7nX1NQM4

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:57

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; Whatever.

EW's Star Wars guy Anthony Breznican now has a story up about what went down:

EW posted:

The question remained for Star Wars fans: What exactly were those differences, and why were they so insurmountable that neither side was willing to compromise to avoid this public upheaval?

Here�s what we know now: Several sources close to the movie and others close to the directors tell EW that ever since filming began back in February, Lord and Miller, who are known primarily for wry, self-referential comedies like 21 Jump Street and the pilot episodes for Brooklyn 99 and Last Man on Earth, began steering the Han Solo movie more into the genre of comedy than space fantasy.

Apparently, the split was a subtle one that became magnified over time: Lucasfilm and producer Kennedy believed Lord and Miller were hired to add a comedic touch; Lord and Miller believed they were hired to make a comedy.

It�s an ironic turn. Last year, when Rogue One was undergoing reshoots, fans were critical because they assumed Lucasfilm was trying to �lighten� the war story with more comedy. Those concerns were unfounded, but now the opposite may be the case for the Han Solo film: Lucasfilm wants young Han Solo to be more grounded.

As usual with stories like this, not all sources agree. Another individual close to the movie says it wasn�t a question about how much comedy would be in the film, but rather the filmmakers were encouraging too much improvisation from the actors, which was shifting the story off course.

With actors who are also writers, and gifted at coming up with their own material, like Atlanta creator and star Donald Glover in the role of Lando Calrissian and Fleabag creator and star Phoebe Waller-Bridge as an unspecified motion-capture character (which in galactic terms, that usually signals a droid or alien), the sources agree that Lord and Miller began straying from the script by Star Wars veteran Lawrence Kasdan and his son, Jon Kasdan (The First Time).

One person close to the fired directors says: �They thought they were brought on to make a Phil and Chris movie� Sometimes they just thought the actors could do it differently.�

But others on the project say they pushed too far. It wasn�t just a question of tone. The variations added up to significantly change the story. They may have been brought aboard to give young Han Solo a wiseacre vibe and an irreverent style, but Lucasfilm still felt the directors had a responsibility to tell the story as written.

When dailies began rolling in featuring improvisation from the actors and new ideas from the directors that significantly parted ways with the script, the relationship with the home office at Lucasfilm became fraught. As principal photography for the movie approached its end, it became clear that the filmmakers and producers did not share the same vision for some critical scenes.

Reshoots were always possible (they are factored into almost every major film these days, and each new Star Wars project has undergone them), but as Lord and Miller dug in, refusing to compromise on what they saw as best for the film, the partnership went from fraught to fractured. If they wouldn�t do the scenes as Lucasfilm and Kennedy wanted them now, why would they do them that way during reshoots?

Sources close to the studio tell EW that Kennedy also wanted what was best for the film. Those perspectives were just different � and growing further apart.

They became immovable objects. If the filmmakers were refusing to make the movie Lucasfilm expected, why continue?

On Monday, Lord and Miller were told they were terminated. The production was put on hold.

Howard�s name began circulating immediately, but yesterday his agency, CAA, was still saying a deal hadn�t been reached. This morning, it was done.

He will have two weeks to get to England and get up to speed on where things are, where they went awry from the studio�s point of view, and come up with a plan to complete it � if not on time, then with minimal extension to the schedule.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/06/22/ron-howard-takes-over-directing-duties-on-han-solo-film/

# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:31

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

So, they wanted Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and the studio wanted something closer to a funny but relatively serious movie. That and keeping to storygroup's direction.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:40

Veshpo: May 23, 2016

Han and Lando playing holo-chess and doing the "you know how I know you're gay?" bit from The 40 Year Old Virgin was the last straw

# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:42

Cnut the Great: Mar 30, 2014

Covok posted:

Imagine now for a second if the old Star Wars EU treated Vader like it did Bobba Fett.

Frankly, I'm shocked they never did a clone of a Darth Vader storyline.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader_(clone)

Do not underestimate the powers of the EU.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:04

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Cnut the Great posted:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader_(clone)

Do not underestimate the powers of the EU.

I think you wanted "the power to fire a pair of directors is insignificant next to the power of EU nerddom."

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:11

Veshpo: May 23, 2016

Cnut the Great posted:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader_(clone)

Do not underestimate the powers of the EU.

quote:

Despite apparently not requiring armor similar to Vader's, the clone was dressed in a costume accurately reflecting the detail, but without the functionality of Darth Vader's armor. Tash Arranda deduced that it had been constructed from scrap lying around the abandoned Rebel base on Dantooine. The clone Vader also had a lightsaber, however, like the armor it was merely an imitation, producing a fake blade that simply passed through objects without inflicting any damage.

*in extremely Jake Lloyd voice* Now THIS is EU!

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:19

Bongo Bill: Jan 17, 2012

The REAL Goobusters posted:

but at least force awakens was fun and the first new not poo poo one in years.

yeah, about ten years

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:23

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; Whatever.

Star Wars News Net's article about what their sources are saying:

Star Wars News Net posted:

For anyone who�s worried that the actor playing a young Han Solo isn�t taking his role seriously, rest easy � Ehrenreich one of the most important people involved with the project who voiced his concerns about the project at a crucial moment in the movie�s development, which means that he�s absolutely committed to bringing his A-game to this role. Ehrenreich�s performance has been described to us as being an interesting new take on Han that stands out on its own while still honoring the essentials of the character, and that it�s a worthy interpretation of the iconic scoundrel.

And this is why Ehrenreich had concerns with the production as filming progressed. He started to worry that Lord & Miller�s screwball comedy angle was starting to interfere with what the character of Han Solo is really about � even if this was a younger, more reckless take on the character than the one we met in that Cantina on Tatooine. One source described it as being oddly comparable to Jim Carrey�s performance in Ace Ventura at times. Ehrenreich let his concerns be known to one of the producers, who then told Kennedy about it, which led to her decision to look over the existing footage (which is also a normal part of the production process, but this is where things get interesting).

[...]But as it turns out, they were right. The reason people close to the project have described it positively was that they saw several isolated scenes. However, when an assembly cut actually started to come together, that was where the issues presented themselves in earnest, and this is where Kennedy and Kasdan � as well as the other people reporting to them � started to get deeply concerned. The Weekly Planet Podcast mentioned that there were concerns with performances and action setpieces, but from the sound of things it seems to be more along the lines that Lucasfilm really wants to get an edit that�s more faithful to Kasdan�s script. (Have I mentioned that they really, really like Ehrenreich�s take on Han? Because they do!) There was something of a �zany� tone to more scenes than they would have liked � in part due to some of the improv � and I get the feeling that fans might take more of an issue with this than they would have if the film had been left unfixed.

At some point in production, some kind of hiatus took place, and this is where they reviewed the footage and told Lord & Miller that they�d need to overhaul the movie with reshoots when they worked on it later. If this sounds familiar, then you�d be right to think of Rogue One � but the difference was that Gareth Edwards was a team player, whereas Lord & Miller have given off the impression that they were pretty rebellious with this production, and they offered an ultimatum � either let us handle the reshoots our way, or we�re out. And thus, they were shown the door.

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/06/what-our-sources-are-saying-about-the-star-wars-han-solo-shakeup.html

Ace Ventura? Yeah, that might have been bad.

Teek fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 22, 2017

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:24

wyoming: Jun 7, 2010; Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.

Hobie Doyle is a loving snitch!

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:28

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

quote:

The clone Vader also had a lightsaber, however, like the armor it was merely an imitation, producing a fake blade that simply passed through objects without inflicting any damage.

I'd watch a movie about scrap metal vader with his flashlightsaber.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:30

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

RBA Starblade posted:

I'd watch a movie about scrap metal vader with his flashlightsaber.

That sounds like the movie Lord and Miller should have directed tbh.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:32

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Pretty telling if Ehrenreich was willing to leapfrog over Miller & Lord to voice his concerns directly to the producers. That would imply that the split went deeper into the production than what has been previously been reported. If the so-called "culture clash" played out on set as well... well, this is only going to get more fascinating as more is uncovered.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:33

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Lets hire directors with a unique voice!

TOO MUCH VOICE! TOO MUCH VOICE!!!!!!!!!

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:38

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

Fart City posted:

Pretty telling if Ehrenreich was willing to leapfrog over Miller & Lord to voice his concerns directly to the producers. That would imply that the split went deeper into the production than what has been previously been reported. If the so-called "culture clash" played out on set as well... well, this is only going to get more fascinating as more is uncovered.

It was a tough predicament, this is supposed to be his break-out role, a role that his entire career may be hinging on. But he's still a relatively unknown actor and not a power player who can just make demands all over the place. So he must have really seen things going south in a big way to do what he did.

Not quite the same thing but this reminds me of the Ghostbusters reboot, I'm sure there were plenty of people behind the scenes who were thinking to themselves "hmmm, maybe there should be some actual jokes in the script instead of just letting Wiig and McCarthy improve every single scene?", but I guess nobody with enough clout spoke up in that case.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:39

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

.... the ghostbusters movie was really good?

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:40

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

euphronius posted:

.... the ghostbusters movie was really good?

Whoops, sorry didn't mean to potentially start that bullshit again. Pretend I never mentioned it!

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:40

Teek: Aug 7, 2006; Whatever.

Ehrenreich's career would have taken a huge hit if people accused him of over-acting and being Ace Ventura-esque.

"He made Han Solo into a buffoon!"

You would then have had people saying Solo was always a buffoon, but this sounds like it was taking it to the level of parody.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:43

wyoming: Jun 7, 2010; Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.

Teek posted:

Ehrenreich's career would have taken a huge hit if people accused him of over-acting and being Ace Ventura-esque.

"He made Han Solo into a buffoon!"

You would then have had people saying Solo was always a buffoon, but this sounds like it was taking it to the level of parody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAbFqkvzQA

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:45

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Ghostbusters was not a good movie. It was very aimless.
But it depends on what kind of improv they were going with. If they just messed with the lines on set, giving them energy or adding some humor that's one thing. If they spent long sections of the scenes riffing about nothing for 2 minutes than that would be bad.

The thing is, unlike Feig, Lord and Miller, at the end of it all, know how to inject a ton of sincerity and emotion to their films in fairly powerful ways. So even if they had Glover say funny poo poo, funnier than Kasden could ever come up with, they still probably would've stuck the landing.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:45

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Now I'm just imaging Ron Howard sitting down to map out how to finish production and having to sift through four months worth of film that is just Chewbacca improving with a dildo.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:46

Pops Mgee: Aug 20, 2009; People all over the world,
Join Hands,
Start the Love Train!

wyoming posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAbFqkvzQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raF9wfPxir8
100% serious all the time yep.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:48

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

Pops Mgee posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raF9wfPxir8
100% serious all the time yep.

That's all well and good but lets not pretend that Han Solo is the same as Ace Ventura. If that comparison was really legit then I think they absolutely had a problem that needed fixing.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:57

Veshpo: May 23, 2016

Basebf555 posted:

Whoops, sorry didn't mean to potentially start that bullshit again. Pretend I never mentioned it!

Would that it were so simple

# ? Jun 22, 2017 19:58

RedSpider: May 12, 2017

The REAL Goobusters posted:

Ron Howard is taking over the Han Solo movie

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Yeah I'm out lmao

I just saw Inferno a few weeks ago, too.

Holy christ this movie is hosed

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:04

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Basebf555 posted:

That's all well and good but lets not pretend that Han Solo is the same as Ace Ventura. If that comparison was really legit then I think they absolutely had a problem that needed fixing.

A goody earnest han who gets more hardened and cynical later isn't the worst arc.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:04

Veshpo: May 23, 2016

RedSpider posted:

I just saw Inferno a few weeks ago, too.

Holy christ this movie is hosed

Rush was pretty good

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:05

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

CelticPredator posted:

A goody earnest han who gets more hardened and cynical later isn't the worst arc.

I suppose. As long as there's enough genuine pathos in the film to make him seem like an actual character that's developing and not a just a goofy improv comedian.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:07

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Lord and Miller don't know how to not do that.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:09

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

CelticPredator posted:

Lord and Miller don't know how to not do that.

It seems like that's the assumption Kennedy and co. were operating under, and they seemed happy with some isolated scenes that they saw, but then once they started seeing stuff assembled all the sudden they thought the tone was way off. So it seems like maybe this time they didn't do it properly, but we'll probably never know because we won't get to see their version.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:11

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 21:07

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Both 21 Jump Street and The Lego Movie revolved around parodying and deconstructing pop culture archetypes. Considering you can't get more archetypical than Star Wars when it comes to pop culture at large, I wonder if the movie was leaning too hard into winking and pointing at the franchise itself. Because I sure as hell wouldn't want to sit down and watch a two hour, live-action Robot Chicken sketch.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 20:14

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