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They made a typo. Should have been 3)4 cup not one and, but everything else was so a lovely editor.
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May 31, 2017 02:58
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Actually that is a very good point I didn't think about. My stand mixer has no problem with even large batches of bagels, so I skipped past realizing that a bread machine is no Ankarsrum. Bagels are about the stiffest dough that people actually eat instead of using as building blocks, but yeah, just make them by hand. I'm definitely open to trying new breads! I use what I bake to make sandwiches for my lunch. "Rich flavor, healthy and seriously delicious" sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, thanks! I'll dig around those blogs and see what else I find. Converting recipes to grams makes it a lot easier for me, I can just plop the bread machine's bowl on my food scale and don't have to mess around with measuring cups. A lot easier to clean up, too. Submarine Sandpaper posted:They made a typo. Should have been 3)4 cup not one and, but everything else was so a lovely editor. That's certainly possible. It's a shame, the rest of the recipes I tried were all pretty good. Besides them all collapsing in the middle, anyway.
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May 31, 2017 03:23
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Solumin posted:I'm definitely open to trying new breads! I use what I bake to make sandwiches for my lunch. "Rich flavor, healthy and seriously delicious" sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, thanks! I'll dig around those blogs and see what else I find. Since you seem like you're interested in getting more into bread, I can recommend a few cookbooks. I'm not going to list these in any particular order, but they range from beginner to textbook level. I also have some bread science PDFs I can upload - Wheat Gluten, 2000, is an absolute treasure, for instance. 500+ pages of knowledge that's mainly tailored to industrial or scientific purposes, but there's still plenty that's useful for the amateur or professional baker. Bread properties and crumb structure, 2001, is much shorter at 24 pages, but more densely packed with knowledge that you might actually be able to use. Those should wait until you've learned some more underlying theory, but let me know if you want those uploads. As far as bread cookbooks to start with: Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day Bread Baking - An Artisan's Perspective Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes Bread Illustrated (semi-recommended, useful for novices but that's about it) Crust and Crumb Flour Water Salt Yeast Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day Tartine Bread The Bread Baker's Apprentice The Bread Baker's Bible I would start with Bread Illustrated, then read the others at some point. Bread is entirely a textbook, not really aimed at home audiences, so be aware of that. BBB, FWSY and BBA are very good in particular. SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 03:52
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Wow. Thank you! I'm interested in making my own bread because it's hard for me to find bread in stores that I can actually eat. I've had The Bread Baker's Apprentice on my wishlist for a while, probably from when I skimmed the first few pages of this thread a while ago. Looks like most of them are on Amazon, so I should be able to find them pretty easy.
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May 31, 2017 06:28
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Solumin posted:Wow. Thank you! I'm interested in making my own bread because it's hard for me to find bread in stores that I can actually eat. I've had The Bread Baker's Apprentice on my wishlist for a while, probably from when I skimmed the first few pages of this thread a while ago. Looks like most of them are on Amazon, so I should be able to find them pretty easy. No problem. Post your loaves here, both crumb and crust, and we'll help you improve. Bread is a wonderful thing, and even less than ideal homemade bread is usually better than storebought. I'm curious to know what you think of the struan when it comes out! If you want a sweeter bread that's extremely soft and fluffy with an unusual texture, check out Hokkaido milk bread. Any bread that uses the tangzhong technique (as described in that post) will have the texture, and in fact the recipe I linked is a sweeter version of shokopan. They'll seem weird and kind of sticky, but don't worry, they'll come out beautifully. I like baking them in a pullman pan, but they also work fine in loaf form - but I'm not sure how they'd turn out as a boule or batard.
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May 31, 2017 07:11
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Making a basic old white loaf in my brand new stand mixer, to see how it compares to bread I do by hand. It was a hell of a lot quicker, and I'm slightly skeptical about the results. I tend to have to need the dough for about 10 minutes to get it silky smooth and nice, but the stand mixer accomplished the same texture in about 2 minutes - if that. I was worried about either under or over kneading it, but we'll see. It's rising for an hour and then I'll bang it in the oven. Will post results and you can all tell me how I can best improve! I'm planning on making a sourdough starter cause I absolutely love sourdough bread. I remember the first time I made bread 7 years ago, I didn't have a loaf tin, so I just put it in an oven-proof (I think it was, at least) pan and it made the nicest bread ever, round, crispy everywhere, and just delicious. It made for awkward sandwiches though as the only decently sized slices were in the middle and I got about 4 sandwiches worth out of each loaf. The smaller bits I'd just eat fresh with jam and butter. Honestly, nothing compares to warm-out-the-oven bread with jam and butter.
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Jun 4, 2017 08:32
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  The bread turned out okay, but it's one hell of a squat and fat loaf. It tastes delicious, the inside is moist but not wet, the crust is... crusty? It's really lovely. But it looks ugly. I botched up the scoring, and I was a tad overzealous with the flour dusting. What can I do to improve my loaf? I'd prefer if it was a little bit taller, just for aesthetics. Lining the loaf tin with olive oil really produced a great textured crust, just the right amount of bite. To help you guys with the autopsy: - 450g plain white flour - 7g yeast - 1 1/2 tsp salt - 1 tsp sugar - 300ml lukewarm water (I went full laboratory mode and measured the temp precisely to get it to 43 degrees celsius, which I read is the perfect temperature for yeast?) Let it rise for an hour in the loaf tin, and then whammed it in the oven at 220 degrees celsius for 25 minutes.
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Jun 4, 2017 10:24
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made the classic nyt no knead with some spinach dip for lunch. as usual i reduced i reduced the temperature and cooking time for a little lighter colour and softer crust. 
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Jun 4, 2017 22:00
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How do I get that good of a rise for the loaf itself? I tried again, and while the dough rose nicely in the bowl, it just slumped over when I turned it out of the bowl and didn't nearly rise as much vertically afterwards. I only folded it over itself once and tucked the "seam" underneath before rising -- should I be forming more of a ball even if that deflates a lot of air?
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Jun 4, 2017 22:10
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Jan posted:How do I get that good of a rise for the loaf itself? I tried again, and while the dough rose nicely in the bowl, it just slumped over when I turned it out of the bowl and didn't nearly rise as much vertically afterwards. I only folded it over itself once and tucked the "seam" underneath before rising -- should I be forming more of a ball even if that deflates a lot of air? i make a pretty tight ball (quite a few fold and pinches) and just let it rise a couple hours covered on a cutting board before dropping it seam side up into the hot pot. I'm using apf but I'm in Canada and i think our flour is quite different from American. e: you could also try using a little more yeast and letting it sit/ferment for a shorter time large hands fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 22:19
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Solumin posted:I'm definitely open to trying new breads! I use what I bake to make sandwiches for my lunch. "Rich flavor, healthy and seriously delicious" sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, thanks! I'll dig around those blogs and see what else I find. Adding to SymmetryrtemmyS's great list of books, I also highly recommend Advanced Bread and Pastry by Michel Suas, it's not so much a recipe book as a theory book, gets right into the science and guidelines of making bread and it really helped me adventure out and start developing my own breads and processes. Some of it is geared toward commercial bakeries (such as covering food safety guidelines and processes) but there's a wealth of information for the home baker as well.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:45
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Loopoo posted:
So I finally googled the conversion and try 38c or 35c if your not pouring it into a cooler vessel. If you wanna go all science again a goon within the last three or so pages posted the bread dough temp formula. Weigh your salt too, density varies by type and brand but you can always be safe with 2% imo. Did it double in bulk? That's more important than time. A 66% white flour dough should have done so. Look for bread flour.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:09
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large hands posted:i make a pretty tight ball (quite a few fold and pinches) and just let it rise a couple hours covered on a cutting board before dropping it seam side up into the hot pot. I'm using apf but I'm in Canada and i think our flour is quite different from American. Also  , so I don't think that's it. Formed more of a ball this time, but it still ended up slumping and rising horizontally. Guess that's just the path of yeast resistance? 
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Jun 11, 2017 17:26
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I'm planning on making a sourdough starter, any advice or is it too easy to mess up?
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Jun 11, 2017 17:29
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Jan posted:Also you're using a hot Dutch oven w/ lid right? I would still trying a shorter rise/fermenting time, i feel like your dough might be over risen. i made savory buns to take for work lunches. they're stuffed with black forest ham, cheddar, and pickle with dijon mustard. 
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Jun 11, 2017 21:43
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Q8ee posted:I'm planning on making a sourdough starter, any advice or is it too easy to mess up? Don't forsake it until it smells of acetone and wash the initial container with baking soda water and steralize in the oven.
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Jun 12, 2017 01:06
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Finally got around to trying Hokkaido milk bread, went over p well with the kids so I guess it's in the rotation now. 
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Jun 12, 2017 01:56
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large hands posted:i made savory buns to take for work lunches. they're stuffed with black forest ham, cheddar, and pickle with dijon mustard. Stringent posted:Finally got around to trying Hokkaido milk bread, went over p well with the kids so I guess it's in the rotation now. hell yeah
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Jun 12, 2017 04:45
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I've been forgetting my sourdoughs and leaving them in bulk ferment at room temperature for 12 hours+ before final shaping and proofing. This may have led to some really awesome flavor development, or these new and exciting flavors may be because I'm using 50% stone ground whole wheat bread flour. It doesn't seem to hurt much as long as proofing is done properly. I'm also baking the bread on my gas grill, with surprisingly good results. I'll have pictures later today of my setup and results in case any one's interested.Stringent posted:Finally got around to trying Hokkaido milk bread, went over p well with the kids so I guess it's in the rotation now. Been meaning to try this, what recipe did you use?
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Jun 18, 2017 09:09
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This: http://schneiderchen.de/237Hokkaido-Milky-Loaf.html But I'm taking the cake flour 200g of cream and 100g of milk and making this: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/32997/hokkaido-milk-bread-tangzhong. Then using 150g of milk for the liquids.
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Jun 18, 2017 09:15
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baquerd posted:I've been forgetting my sourdoughs and leaving I'm also baking the bread on my gas grill, with surprisingly good results Whoa, details? Never thought of doing that, and I've been feeling like baking bread lately but don't feel like warming up the kitchen with the oven in this heat. Since grill thermometers are notoriously unreliable, I imagine you need an oven thermometer to get it right?
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Jun 18, 2017 23:18
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New York Times No Knead Bread In weight units: 430 grams flour 1 gram yeast 8 grams salt 345 grams water How the poo poo am I supposed to "shape dough into a ball"? Look at this liquid unruly mass of lovely goop:  Based on large hands's posts, I figured this recipe might give better results than Kenji's, but this is loving worse. Should I adjust hydration? e: gently caress this poo poo, the more I worked with this crap, the more I wanted to chuck it out the window, so I tossed it.  e2: vvvvvvv It's just too liquid for that. I could fold it, but then it'd slouch right back. Jan fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 00:17
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You want a bench scraper for 80 percent handling imo. Search on YouTube but you'd use the bench's friction to shape.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:23
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Jan posted:New York Times No Knead Bread Give it some more time to build gluten, or knead it. There's really no other solution - and at 80%, it'll take a while to build up a nice sturdy gluten network. Next time either use stronger flour, add vital wheat gluten, or give it more time. One way or another, you need more gluten development - that's too liquid to work with, from the picture, for the type of bread you're going for. Folding it in three then repeating the other direction every few hours will accelerate no-knead gluten development dramatically. That might be worth a try.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:05
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The Midniter posted:Whoa, details? Never thought of doing that, and I've been feeling like baking bread lately but don't feel like warming up the kitchen with the oven in this heat. Here's my setup that I tried today (changed it up to check on the effects of oven burner settings), which produced some good oven spring but burned the bottom. In general, I've found burning on the bottom is the first major problem, not having great ambient heat for browning is the second one.  That's a 50% whole wheat sourdough on the bottom there, on an aluminum sheet pan on top of some bricks. Temp is showing low here because I was just letting it finish/rest in there with the burners off, I grill-baked it at 425 for about 20 minutes, then stepped down to 375 (my wife hates super crusty bread) until it passed the knock test. After cooling, I just cut off the utterly burnt bottom and produced an OK crumb considering the whole wheat and the hydration level.  Technique-wise, here's some tips: Use oven thermometer to see actual heat at the bread. Pre-heat gas grill for at least 15 minutes. Turning outer burners on high and middle burner (the one under the bread) on low to prevent the bottom burning Don't open the grill lid for the first 20 minutes Don't oil the pan Use two pans nestled together for a bit of insulation to prevent the bottom burning Elevate the pan with bricks (mine cost $0.33 each at Menards) to prevent the bottom burning Pre-heat pan and thermometer in grill to ensure accurate temps I want to use a baking steel next time instead of the sheet pans because I think it will be a great thermal capacitor. Another technique I might try is putting the baking steel on the grill itself, air gapping the pan from the grill via the steel, or using a sil-pat (need to check temperature resistance) between two aluminum sheets. All that said, it's a lot of effort compared to just using an oven with no advantages other than energy savings in the summer.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:09
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Jan posted:New York Times No Knead Bread That recipe is Mark Bittman's (Lahey's yeah), which Kenji uses as the basis for his. So, not surprising they came out the same. I've made that recipe, it's not that bad. Here is what Kenji says about it: quote:Since no-knead doughs require a large amount of hydration ... they can be a little challenging for first time bakers to work with. They stretch easily, practically pouring out of their rising vessel. Like, lot's and lots of flour. Like, really look at the picture in Kenji's article he's got at least 1/2 a cup going there, maybe more. Also the shaping motion is more or less just using the sides of your hands to pull the dough towards your body and then turning it and pulling it towards you again. Also, Kenji cools it in the refrigerator for 3 days to stiffen it up.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:29
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Murgos posted:Like, lot's and lots of flour. Like, really look at the picture in Kenji's article he's got at least 1/2 a cup going there, maybe more. Also the shaping motion is more or less just using the sides of your hands to pull the dough towards your body and then turning it and pulling it towards you again. So basically... kneading? And yes, I did use Kenji's recipe first, and while it was still pretty liquid, I definitely had better results. I'm just wondering what I should be adjusting to have it rise more vertically. I guess I should read a book about the actual chemistry of bread.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:09
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Unfortunately even with an understanding of the chemistry the only way to get it working is to just make a shitload of bread. Ime, ymmv, etc.
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Jun 21, 2017 03:13
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That's weird Jan, don't know why that wound up so liquidy for you. I'm using Rogers unbleached apf which is 13.3% protein, and letting it rest the full 24 hours. It's sticky and floppy but workable if I flour my hands and the board well.
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Jun 21, 2017 04:01
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Jan posted:So basically... kneading? Stretching and folding is so, so much less work than kneading and will dramatically help you handle really wet dough. Even just 2 or 3 turns would help you work with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQHuWDEo3SA And! "Shape dough into a ball" means a boule. It's round, but the surface is taut with the seams rolled/pinched together under it. The taut skin/surface (even in a parchment lined bowl) gives it support to have a nice tall shape. Otherwise during baking, it'll kind of spread out into whatever you're cooking it in. You've also mentioned frustration with deflating while handling the dough so this Peter Reinhart video might help. All your bread so far has looked so good, especially for someone who's only been baking since May. Delve into shaping! These King Arthur Flour videos on pre-shaping and shaping are excellent.
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Jun 21, 2017 13:28
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Chicolini posted:All your bread so far has looked so good, especially for someone who's only been baking since May. Welp, thanks! Isn't that supposed to be the upside of no knead, it's so effortless you can get great results as a complete newbie? (Except for the NYT attempt. )But yeah, thanks all for the input, that confirms that I was roughly on the right track my first attempts using Kenji's proportions. I did manage to fold and pinch those, whereas the last one did lack the elasticity to really do any of that -- "pinching" was really just melding more goop together. Kenji's weight measurements land at 70%, whereas the weight measurements I got from the NYT comment recipe come in at 80%... Plus it's was very hot and humid when I made it, so I think that's probably a bad combo.
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Jun 21, 2017 14:44
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Anyone have a Dutch Crunch/Tiger Bread recipe that they would recommend?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:03
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When I make fresh bread and pull it out the oven, do I need to let it rest or can I dig right into it? Also, why do some people put bowls of boiling water in the oven when they're baking bread, what does that do? Finally, every bread I make is lovely and crunchy, but I'd like to be able to make supermarket bread that I can use for sandwiches. I only ever eat sandwiches at home with the bread I bake, cause trying to eat it in public would be a disaster cause crumbs explode everywhere.
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Jun 22, 2017 23:07
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You really want to let it cool first. You want the crumb to fully set, and you won't be able to taste the full range of flavors until the loaf has cooled to near room temperature. Sourdough breads are usually best after a few hours. And if you make a high percentage rye bread, it needs a full 24 hours to fully set. The bowls of water, water spray bottles, soaked towels, etc. provide steam ate the beginning of the bake. The steam delays the formation of the crust, giving the loaf a greater oven spring and a thinner, crisper crust. Professional ovens are built to inject steam when the bread is loaded, so home bakers use water to mimic those ovens. For a soft bread, you need a little sugar and a little fat to soften the crust and make a finer crumb. Something like a white pan loaf or a pain de mie.
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Jun 22, 2017 23:57
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Dough conditioner can also be great for sandwich bread. It's designed to produce that supermarket texture. Another option is a loaf made using tangzhong, which just a slightly cooked (enough to gelatinize the starch) slurry of flour and milk that you add to the dough. It produces a fluffy, cottony texture; see Hokkaido milk loaf or its less sweet cousin, shokopan.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:59
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Another option is a loaf made using tangzhong, which just a slightly cooked (enough to gelatinize the starch) slurry of flour and milk that you add to the dough. It produces a fluffy, cottony texture; see Hokkaido milk loaf or its less sweet cousin, shokopan. IIRC, this can also extend the shelf life of the bread. Not sure why; it was mentioned in a serious eats post, but I cant remember which one.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:05
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Invisible Ted posted:IIRC, this can also extend the shelf life of the bread. Not sure why; it was mentioned in a serious eats post, but I cant remember which one. True. I don't know why it is, but it does prevent staleness.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:29
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Might be this article: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/11/crusty-dinner-rolls-recipe.html I'd never heard of this technique before but it looks like a good excuse to bake some rolls.
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Jun 23, 2017 05:34
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WhoIsYou posted:You really want to let it cool first. You want the crumb to fully set, and you won't be able to taste the full range of flavors until the loaf has cooled to near room temperature. Sourdough breads are usually best after a few hours. And if you make a high percentage rye bread, it needs a full 24 hours to fully set. This is very true and a good post but don't be afraid to disregard at times i.e. for fresh toast from non rye I like to cut a bit war.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:24
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Grilled Tangzhong milk bread is going to make ridiculously good french toast I predict. 
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Jun 24, 2017 23:27
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