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Vigilante's have some super neat options, but they would be put to better use as feats.
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Jun 18, 2017 22:44
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Orange Devil posted:So our previous game kinda blew up and it now looks like we're starting a new campaign using the Crimson Throne remaster. Theres options but paladin is super goddamn amazingly helpful for this adventure path.
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Jun 19, 2017 03:07
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Nihilarian posted:Unchained Monk, as well as certain chained Monk builds, are perfectly fine, so it might not be that bad. Knowing the player, there's a very high chance his build is going to be very meh and he'll forget to use over half his abilities anyway. Let's just say everyone is very happy at least he won't be playing as the sole arcane caster this time around. This player is now also considering Rogue, so I guess I just gotta wait and see which way he goes. Anyway, I heard about the paladin thing for this adventure path and am a little torn between 2H paladin or archer paladin, especially because our last party had a 2H paladin for whom I provided a lot of input on how to build his character and I'm a little wary of playing basically a copy of that. Any other cool and good things I can do with a paladin, given the rest of the party? Melee bard is interesting as well, might do that if the other guy decides against Rogue. Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.
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Jun 19, 2017 09:52
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Eox posted:Vigilante's have some super neat options, but they would be put to better use as feats. Roadie posted:literally the only reason that avenger vigilante isn't a flat upgrade over fighter is that there's no weapon/armor training talents. Vigilante has a fair number of options that are simply better than the feat you would take or give options that cannot be duplicated by combat feats, or simply give you two feats for the price of one, and can trade one or all of them for combat feats as desired. In many ways, Vigilante really is just a better Fighter - and yet, weapon training is that big a deal. Notable examples: - Lethal Grace: Replaces Weapon Finesse and gives a flat damage bonus equal to half your Vigilante level so long as you are applying your strength bonus to damage. (THIS IS REALLY loving STRONG) - Mad Rush: Pounce, with a high AC penalty, but only costs one feat equivalent. - Returning Weapon: Make thrown weapons suck less! - Shadow's Speed: 10 ft (20 ft at 10th level) increase to base speed - Shield of Blades: Gives Power Attack, and also a Shield bonus to AC when you use Power Attack. - Shield of Fury: Two feats for the price of one. - Signature Weapon: It's Weapon Focus, except whoops, it's also Weapon Specialization! Two feats for the price of one. - Strike the Unseen: Blind Fight. Except whoops it's actually the entire three feat chain for the cost of one feat. - Sure Footed: At 8th level, it's like Nimble Moves, but better in every way. - Vital Punishment: Like Vital Strike, but you also get to use it on one attack of opportunity per round. - Unkillable: Like Diehard, except without the feat tax. Also better in every way! At 12th level, you don't even have to stop fighting, so long as you get healed within one round of being brought to "dead" levels of negative HP. If you converted every vigilante talent into a combat feat, you would only be a single feat behind the fighter, and if the only non-feat exchange you took was Signature Weapon, you'd be tied with a fighter for overall feats. You can duplicate most of the effects of armor training with vigilante talents, and arguably access to pounce makes the Vigilante simply superior to the fighter in general usability, plus you get the ability to have a whole bunch of non-combat social relevance that a Fighter simply does not really have the chops for. Olesh fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 11:59
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Nowhere in my area carried the "Starfinder: First Contact" Free RPG Day book.  Was anyone lucky enough to snag one and talk about the new mechanics?
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Jun 19, 2017 17:31
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Guy on Reddit got a copy and scanned it, https://www.reddit.com/r/starfinder_rpg/comments/6huwlx/starfinder_first_contact_pdf_scans/
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Jun 19, 2017 18:05
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"Most dramatically, monsters in Starfinder aren't built using the same rules as player characters. Instead, they're created using a system of benchmarks similar to those found in Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Unchained..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LRZmFxdWBo
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Jun 20, 2017 05:32
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Real talk, what ever happened to that one Japanese group that was playing through Pathfinder in the most anime way possible, and they made videos on youtube that were all painfully computer-translated into babbling. You know what I'm talking about. Or at least SOMEONE here must.
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Jun 20, 2017 05:51
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I don't but it sounds like something I desperately want to know more about.
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Jun 20, 2017 05:55
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Were the Savage Tide or Shackled City APs ever re-released/compiled outside of the Dungeon magazines? EDIT: HidaO-Win posted:Guy on Reddit got a copy and scanned it, https://www.reddit.com/r/starfinder_rpg/comments/6huwlx/starfinder_first_contact_pdf_scans/ idgi - this doesn't seem to do anything except be a really short Monster Manual In Space. Was this intended to be a playable document? gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 07:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:Were the Savage Tide or Shackled City APs ever re-released/compiled outside of the Dungeon magazines? I'm pretty sure it's just to shut up the people whining about Starfinder just copying Pathfinder math for weapons / armor / monsters (which it isn't) without actually giving away enough of the system to matter.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:Were the Savage Tide or Shackled City APs ever re-released/compiled outside of the Dungeon magazines Shackled City certainly was -- I have a hardcover compilation.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:Real talk, what ever happened to that one Japanese group that was playing through Pathfinder in the most anime way possible, and they made videos on youtube that were all painfully computer-translated into babbling. I know exactly what you're talking about, and I used to find it through the trailer for the Red Dragon roleplaying thing with Nasu et al, but then they made an anime of the latter and every other result seems to have vanished. EDIT: FOUND SOMETHING BETTER, THOUGH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLLOASSsAMI edit edit: Found it! Unfortunately the 'trailer' video and part 1/1 are both inaccessible because copyright claims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g339lWY9WzM Leraika fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 15:19
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Leraika posted:I know exactly what you're talking about, and I used to find it through the trailer for the Red Dragon roleplaying thing with Nasu et al, but then they made an anime of the latter and every other result seems to have vanished. B e a u t i f u l
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Jun 21, 2017 04:56
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Too anime even for me. On the subject of vigilante/fighter upgrade. Vigilante still lacks Weapon Training which combined with Duelists Glove -> Warrior's Spirit -> Bane is arguably one of the best attack buffs in existence. +7 to hit/+14 damage and bypassing most DR is not really something you can ignore at 5th or any other level really, especially if you're a weapon master with "dat scaling". So if your end goal is to roll high numbers and murderface things, the Fighter still lives up to it's name.
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Jun 21, 2017 11:46
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Make the combat talents special feats for fighters, turn the social talents into rogue talents and convert the identity thing to a feat. The Vigilante is a stealth buff package.
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Jun 21, 2017 12:16
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SweetBro posted:Too anime even for me. At higher levels, Warrior Spirit drops off in utility - not because Bane is a bad ability, but because a +2 to hit and +2d6 damage isn't worth giving up an attack (and certainly isn't worth giving up a full attack). There are plenty of hypothetical situations where activating the ability still costs effectively nothing, however - such as if you can't reach the enemy to attack them anyways. A fairly unoptimized no archetype or weird poo poo two-handed fighter at high levels deals damage on the order of about ~50 damage per hit, with a +37 (or better) to hit modifier (using Power Attack and no external buffs). Put up against a serious threat, like say, a Great Wyrm Red Dragon, the fighter is shredding that dragon in about four rounds of full attacks (AC 39, fighter only misses on a 1 on its first attack, and has a 70%/45%/20% chance on his remaining hits). Add Haste into that equation, and the fighter takes the dragon down a round sooner. The Vigilante, by contrast, lacks that +6 to hit and damage from Weapon Training - Lethal Grace provides more damage, but the significantly worse to-hit modifier means either not using Power Attack (to hit with the same reliability as a fighter using Power Attack) or just hitting less frequently. In either case, without the benefit of party buffs, the Vigilante will take approximately twice as long to kill that same red dragon without help - and where a fighter (or Paladin, or Barbarian) can conceivably win a flat DPS race vs the example dragon, the Vigilante most assuredly can't.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:44
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What action does Warrior Spirit take?
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Jun 21, 2017 23:54
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At higher levels you can arguably get away with dropping bane for a different enchantment bonus based on the situation at hand. Also if we're comparing strictly to Lethal Grace, Fighter kind of wins out again due to being able to take advantage of size-increase options. Nihilarian posted:What action does Warrior Spirit take? All Supernatural abilities are standard unless noted otherwise.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:08
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I know it's 3rd party as gently caress, but the dm gave me go ahead on using whatever and I am eyeballing an Aetherurgist Oracle, and have no idea what revelations would even synergize with it at all.
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Jun 22, 2017 22:53
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I'm trying to price out boots that would have a continuous Marching Chant style effect, letting you hustle indefinitely without accruing damage. I'm not looking to create a command word (2x3x1800 = 10800gp) or daily charge item (2160-8640gp), since I both don't want to hum while I hustle and like the fluff of the boots just having an innate power to let you roam. It wouldn't be a particularly powerful item, especially since I already walk faster than most of my party hustles, and I'd mostly be getting it for flavor reasons and amusement. Since it wouldn't be a direct conversion, it'd need to be a sort of flavor-style pricing, kind of like how Boots of the Cat use Featherfall in the creation but don't provide a Featherfall effect. There's also the additional wrinkles that Marching Chant has no clear price as a continuous effect, and I'd be reducing the effect to be a single character, rather than the normal AoE. So unless someone knows of an item that actually does this (or a similar effect), anyone know of any examples of pricing wondrous items that:
e: I found Tireless Tracking Hide which has a hustle-doesn't-hurt effect, which is limited to 8 hours/day, and is priced at 10,000gp, which seems...excessive. For 16,200gp you can get once-a-day Overland Flight for nine hours, or once-a-day teleport. Elysiume fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 03:43
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Elysiume posted:I'm trying to price out boots that would have a continuous Marching Chant style effect, letting you hustle indefinitely without accruing damage. I'm not looking to create a command word (2x3x1800 = 10800gp) or daily charge item (2160-8640gp), since I both don't want to hum while I hustle and like the fluff of the boots just having an innate power to let you roam. It wouldn't be a particularly powerful item, especially since I already walk faster than most of my party hustles, and I'd mostly be getting it for flavor reasons and amusement. You're describing a continuous magic item, which requires no activation and has no limitation. There's pricing for that. Whether or not the spell has a particularly useful effect is almost irrelevant to the pricing guideline. As long as the effect is not more powerful than a similar item at a given price point, the book doesn't suggest that the GM discriminate on the basis of power. The pricing guide in the PF core rulebook is "Spell level x caster level x 2,000 GP2", where the "2" basically says multiply the cost depending on the duration (x4 for a spell measured in rounds, x2 for a spell that's 1 min/level, x1.5 for a spell that's 10min/level, etc). So, a continuous magic item that has the effect of "Marching Chant" would run you anywhere from 12,000 GP to 48,000 GP, depending on how the GM factors in a spell with a duration of "concentration" (normally a round by round effect). While a spell with duration of concentration can be maintained more or less indefinitely, the moment you stop spending an action every round to maintain it, it goes away and has to be recast. So it's debatable - I'd personally lean more towards the x2 cost as if it were a 1min/lvl duration spell in this instance (but not necessarily every instance). But moreover, the core rulebook explicitly tells the GM/players to look for an item that does what you want first, and judge pricing accordingly. Core Rulebook posted:The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. You've found a "similar item", but it only lasts 8 hours/day. It would be reasonable to say that an item that lasts three times as long costs three times as much. Or, if you're willing to accept the need to stop and rest once a day, the item would cost twice as much - subtracting the cost of +1 hide armor, the "Tireless Tracking" portion of the armor accounts for 9,000 GP, so a 16 hr/day version would cost 20,165 GP in total.
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Jun 23, 2017 05:35
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I've already talked to my DM about the fact that there isn't a clear precedent for such an effect transfer, and I had looked for a similar magic item for the reasons you quoted. The only item I can find that's even vaguely a concentration spell turned into a continuous one is the Lantern of Auras, but it's too different to figure out a consistent pricing. Marching Chant is explicitly easy to maintain (given that you can hum it while marching), so I wouldn't consider it minutes per level, if I was going to consider different concentration spells at different effective durations. Once I found the armor, I mostly lost interest. The effect is being priced at 10,000gp (+1 hide armor is only 1165gp, as +1 on armor is only 1000gp), and 10,000gp is more than I'd be willing to spend on such an effect. At that price I'm better off saving my money; I'd hoped I could find something with a small pricetag to match the tiny benefit it would give me. Elysiume fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 06:37
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Elysiume posted:Once I found the armor, I mostly lost interest. The effect is being priced at 10,000gp (+1 hide armor is only 1165gp, as +1 on armor is only 1000gp), and 10,000gp is more than I'd be willing to spend on such an effect. At that price I'm better off saving my money; I'd hoped I could find something with a small pricetag to match the tiny benefit it would give me. Ah, yep, that's what I get for not doublechecking the math. FWIW, 10k seems about right for an effect that doubles your overland movement speed when measured day by day. Normally, you can't maintain a hustle for more than an hour (which requires you to then spend an hour resting), and by the core rules alternating periods of hustle/rest/hustle/rest works out to the normal daily movement rate at a walk. Just because the item has no particular benefit to you in your circumstance doesn't really change the pricing model, and the GM is cautioned against discounting items based on their perceived usefulness. My players, for example, would see tremendous value in an item that allowed them to double their overland movement speed, but they also are playing a party without an arcane spellcaster and thus lack ready access to spells like Overland Flight or Teleport on a day-to-day basis. A 40,000 GP expenditure (10k x4) to double the party's movement speed on the overland map would allow them to cover much more ground than they would otherwise ordinarily be capable of.
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Jun 23, 2017 07:05
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The magic item pricing rules for pathfinder are quite simple: 1. Determine a reasonable price for the effect. 2. Quintuple it. 3. Sigh. 4. Upgrade your Cloak of Resistance instead.
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Jun 23, 2017 07:24
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Olesh posted:Ah, yep, that's what I get for not doublechecking the math. For a party, a command word Marching Chant that could affect four people would only be 14,400gp (SL2 x CL4 x 1800gp), with the downsides of being less stealthy and needing to stay clustered up, but the upside of being able to use it an effectively infinite amount of time. Lottery of Babylon posted:The magic item pricing rules for pathfinder are quite simple: Elysiume fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 07:29
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Keep in mind the Quick Runner's Shirt was nerfed in the errata for the second printing of Ultimate Equipment.
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Jun 23, 2017 08:04
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Arivia posted:Keep in mind the Quick Runner's Shirt was nerfed in the errata for the second printing of Ultimate Equipment. e: When I get enough money I might add Greater Longstrider onto my boots for a solid 3x5x2000 = 30,000gp base price just for a little more fast, because it turns out that other than the cleric's travel domain, oracle's flame revelation nimble steps, barbarian's fast movement, the fleet feat, and haste, there are no non-enhancement bonuses to speed that I can find. And I'm not about to take a class dip or a feat for a bit more speed. Elysiume fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 08:30
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Arivia posted:Keep in mind the Quick Runner's Shirt was nerfed in the errata for the second printing of Ultimate Equipment. Yeah, he quoted the errata'ed version. It's nowhere near as powerful now, but still useful. Gloves of Recon were one of the few magic items that were explicitly asked about and banned in the previous, on-going 6 year campaign that I played in before I took over as GM. It sounds like you're around 9th level - as sad as this sounds, the most "optimal" use of magic items is just to improve your AC/saves/primary stats, and doing so won't leave you with much GP left over on "fun" items that aren't always in play. However, Pathfinder is generally very forgiving and you shouldn't feel a pressing need to optimize, so if you want to spend your GP on items you think are interesting or fun, absolutely do that.
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Jun 23, 2017 08:43
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Speaking of magic items, can someone help me figure out this one? Swirling smoke tattoo.item text posted:If the tattoo is visible when the bearer is hit by a melee or ranged attack or when the bearer fails a Reflex save, the wearer can activate the tattoo to shroud herself in mist as an immediate action. This imposes a 20% miss chance on attacks made against the bearer.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:54
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I've always found swift action economy to be worth more than move action economy. Corset Of Delicate Moves > Quickrunner's shirt.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:57
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SweetBro posted:I've always found swift action economy to be worth more than move action economy. Corset Of Delicate Moves > Quickrunner's shirt. Before the nerf he shirt was really valuable for martials since it let them move and make a full attack on the same turn without actually having pounce.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:57
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Orange Devil posted:So our previous game kinda blew up and it now looks like we're starting a new campaign using the Crimson Throne remaster. Hey, let me tell you about the Chained Summoner...
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Jun 24, 2017 23:42
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Pretty sure I disliked the Unchained Summoner, then again the only part of the Summoner I really was interested in was the Synthesist, and maybe a few buff spells, so not a large part of it.
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Jun 24, 2017 23:58
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Regular summoner was the one I was talking about. Since your eidolon is a good DPS and you can give it Mage armour. Plus as a cha based caster you are good on social skills. Plus later you get to play with the create demiplane stuff that's pretty fun.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:47
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Moriatti posted:Hey, let me tell you about the Chained Summoner... I've decided to go for a reach + crit paladin build. Going to trip the poo poo out of people and then have the monk hit them with his Flurry of Blows or whatever while they're down. Also found out that apparently weapons with a 1d12 damage die (expected value = 6.5) become 3d6 (expected value = 10.5) when they go up a size category, which is an absurd increase, especially when taking into account the additional +1 from the +2 STR Enlarge Person provides. So basically when I get Enlarge Person cast on me at level 1 (!) my Lucerne Hammer is going to be doing 3d6 + 7 (1.5x str mod) at minimum with options to increase by another 7 for power attack and another 1 for the Axe to Grind trait plus possible Smite Evil bonuses.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:08
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Orange Devil posted:Also found out that apparently weapons with a 1d12 damage die (expected value = 6.5) become 3d6 (expected value = 10.5) when they go up a size category, which is an absurd increase Would you believe me if I said that this isn't even all that important? The spell would be good even if it didn't increase your damage. For players, damage from size increases are fairly minor, in the grand scheme of things, unless you're able to stack a whole bunch of them to hit the higher die numbers. Coincidentally, Pathfinder has released rules clarifications and errata specifically preventing the most common shenanigans players used to pump up their effective size modifiers. Right now, an extra d6 will seem like a lot, but the most valuable part of Enlarge Person is the increased reach it grants. At 1st level, with a two-handed weapon, Power Attack will increase your damage by 3 points. Not sure why you think you'll be getting an extra 7 points out of it.
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Jun 25, 2017 03:05
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Olesh posted:Would you believe me if I said that this isn't even all that important? The spell would be good even if it didn't increase your damage. Because I somehow got it in my head Power Attack would let me add my strength mod a second time, not sure where I got that from. Anyway, 3d6+7+3+1 is still more than enough damage to fill that role in my group, methinks. And yeah, Enlarge giving reach is definitely the main draw of the spell, though since I'll already be using reach weapons the benefit is somewhat lessened unless I'm fighting things which themselves have reach. That said, I don't think there's any other first (or even second?) level buffs that give +5 damage, let alone for minute/lvl duration, are there? Either way, the size increase difference between weapons is not exactly made equally: 1d6 --> 1d8 (+1) 1d8 --> 2d6 (+2.5) 1d10 --> 2d8 (+3.5) 1d12 --> 3d6 (+4) 2d4 --> 2d6 (+2) 2d6 --> 3d6 (+3.5) Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 11:10
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Orange Devil posted:Either way, the size increase difference between weapons is not exactly made equally: Except for going from d6 to d8, it's approximately a 50% damage increase on the rolled damage, within the bounds of "only use d6s and d8s".
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Jun 25, 2017 13:15
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Dreamscarred seems to be kicking Path of War development back into high gear, right on the heels of that mystic archetype book there's now a new akashic initiator class and a new discipline. The class is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in pathfinder as a d6 HD, 1/2 BAB full initiator and veilweaver that ultimately feels kind of like Zenyatta from overwatch. The discipline, Radiant Dawn, is the most chock-full of fuckery thing they've ever released and seems like a blast to play with, essence or no.
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Jun 25, 2017 13:32
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