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I mean that's just it though, right? Even if there WEREN'T planes, even if there WEREN'T hijackers, we all saw 24/7 news coverage of these huge iconic symbolic buildings on the New York skyline with smoke and fire pouring out of them. That IN ITSELF was enough to start a goddamn war if the government were doing it on purpose, if they were the type to drum up a fake reason to declare some foreign actor the enemy and go unleash hell on a bunch of Afghan goatherders You want images on the news that will get public approval behind you, you get those images, it's not that difficult for an all-powerful media-controlling government Even if they're playing on hard mode by cancelling their segment on the Capitol dome with a similar smoke plume coming out of it in favor of a plane crashing in a field in Pennsylvania just to gently caress with people
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Jun 22, 2017 13:24
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:On the "US" government? The British actually won the war and created the fake US government so they could do the hosed up poo poo and have someone else to blame. I like the cut of your jib, tell me more.
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Jun 22, 2017 13:26
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:On the "US" government? The British actually won the war and created the fake US government so they could do the hosed up poo poo and have someone else to blame. Is there a poorly-Xeroxed newsletter I can subscribe to?
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Jun 22, 2017 14:14
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El Puerco a decade ago I was posting in this forum under the name Truckin A man and doing very nearly exactly what you are doing here. Trying to evangelize the forums into conspiracy theories and getting upset/insulting when my efforts were not accepted. (I am also a schizophrenic that was not on meds at the time.) It did not work out well for me at all for a variety of reasons and I rather strongly suspect that if you continue to pursue this course of action then you will not have any more success than I did. I realize how easy it will be for you to dismiss what I say here and I empathize with how much your illness is going to try and yank you off ever deeper into dysfunction, but I will still try anyways. Meds can help and therapy is extremely taxing but in the long run helps even more than meds. El Puerco I genuinely hope that you find a balance of meds/therapy that helps you manage your illness and live a fulfilling life.
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Jun 22, 2017 14:31
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Data Graham posted:I mean that's just it though, right? Even if there WEREN'T planes, even if there WEREN'T hijackers, we all saw 24/7 news coverage of these huge iconic symbolic buildings on the New York skyline with smoke and fire pouring out of them. That IN ITSELF was enough to start a goddamn war if the government were doing it on purpose, if they were the type to drum up a fake reason to declare some foreign actor the enemy and go unleash hell on a bunch of Afghan goatherders Why would you even need the planes at all? Just bomb the two buildings and say terrorists did it, or shoot missiles into them and say it was the terrorists. Why go to the effort of shooting missiles then making it seem like it was planes! Really they could have done the whole conspiracy on a bit of a tighter budget. 1) Get some top level CIA/NSA types to fake brief or leak to the media on terror organisations planning on bombing buildings. 2) Bomb buildings. There, now you dont have to pay several thousand people to pretend! Instead of 10,000 people having to be in on it, it can just be like a couple of dozen.
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Jun 22, 2017 15:00
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The Bush administration folks's permanent records going back to Kindergarten were housed in the WTC.
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Jun 22, 2017 15:04
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The Bush administration had a perfectly good casus belli in the whole WMD thing, if they wanted to invade Iraq, they really didn't need 9/11 to happen. Bush and co. were so eager to go after Iraq for something that it got to the point where you had Ahmed Chalabi fabricating intelligence that the Bush Administration wanted to hear, leaking it to Judith Miller at the New York Times, then having people like Cheney go on the Sunday morning shows and saying we have our own sources that Iraq totally has WMDs, even the New York Times is confirming it. If anything, 9/11 was a distraction for the Bush Administration. Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 16:01
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Data Graham posted:Here's what I want to know from conspiracy fucks it's a quasi religious belief that ultimately demonstrates the theorist is more perceptive and woke than you are. that's it. it's just a misplaced need to feel superior
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Jun 22, 2017 16:01
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It's because they want to believe there is some sort of grand plan going on. That there is someone pulling the strings. That for some organization to pull of some immense task it must have taken super geniuses and shadow governments, not some brown people in the desert.
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Jun 22, 2017 16:44
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Fried Watermelon posted:It's because they want to believe there is some sort of grand plan going on. That there is someone pulling the strings. That for some organization to pull of some immense task it must have taken super geniuses and shadow governments, not some brown people in the desert. thats the quasireligious part the arrogant pseudointellectual part is that they alone among the sheep have the wisdom and perception necessary to see the true face of reality. it's a way of simulating scholastic aptitude for people who need to think of themselves as curators of arcane wisdom but dont want to or aren't capable of pursuing academics even as a hobby. so you just make poo poo up and browbeat others into believing it, or intensely study weird bullshit generated by others
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Jun 22, 2017 17:19
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I've always found the "they just want to believe there's a grand plan by elites and not random chaos in the world" to be strange. I would find it a lot more terrifying if I found out the illuminati was real and had arranged all natural disasters then if it was like geopolitics and randomness.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:28
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I've always found the "they just want to believe there's a grand plan by elites and not random chaos in the world" to be strange. I would find it a lot more terrifying if I found out the illuminati was real and had arranged all natural disasters then if it was like geopolitics and randomness. It's comforting because it provides some kind of enemy to fight. Illuminati agents can be assassinated, plots can be revealed and dismantled, etc. There's a concrete way to stop all the problems of the world, if only everyone would just listen to you!
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Jun 22, 2017 19:56
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Crazies I know that are "truthers" usually explain it like an excuse to the huge surveillance programs that were implemented by the USA since 9/11
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Jun 22, 2017 20:09
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I'm less and less convinced of psychological explanations, though that might play a part, and I more believe that the root is the tribal/political affinities of the conspiracists. Those who opposed the post-9/11 wars were more likely to believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, and this was true on the left and (paleocon/anti-war) right, and there were very few people who supported the wars and also believed in a 9/11 false-flag conspiracy at the same time, just as people who oppose U.S. intervention in Syria are more likely to believe Syrian chemical weapons attacks are false flags designed to justify an intervention. These are separate questions of course from whether the wars are justified or not, and we should keep in mind that people in power -- or those who support the powerful -- will also invent conspiracies to justify their actions. The case for war in Iraq was, basically, a baloney conspiracy theory concocted by the U.S. government about an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. Alex Jones is a great example of this at work because his conspiracy theories are purely relational and subject to change depending on where he's sunk his political loyalties at that given moment. The second Jones' preferred guy got into power, the terrorist attacks stopped being a conspiracy by the government and became a conspiracy against the government. Anti-government protests are now a Soros-funded conspiracy, which echoes liberal claims that the Tea Party protests were a Koch-fueled fake movement. While there is a lot of donor money like that involved in political groups, and political groups use protests as a tactic, the claims on both sides tended to exaggerate the role Soros/Koch, and thus became conspiracy theories, more or less. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 20:13
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I'm less and less convinced of psychological explanations, though that might play a part, and I more believe that the root is the tribal/political affinities of the conspiracists.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:18
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I think political leanings are definitely an explanation for WHICH theories a conspiracy theorist subscribes to but it still doesn't explain why they subscribe to them in the first place. I would wager the vast majority of this forum is against the post 9/11 wars but truthers stick out like a sore thumb. There has to be a reason certain people are susceptible to conspiracy theories beyond their political leanings.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:28
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I think political leanings are definitely an explanation for WHICH theories a conspiracy theorist subscribes to but it still doesn't explain why they subscribe to them in the first place. I would wager the vast majority of this forum is against the post 9/11 wars but truthers stick out like a sore thumb. There has to be a reason certain people are susceptible to conspiracy theories beyond their political leanings. yeah, politics is just the lens through which a magical thinker constructs conspiracy theories. not all 9/11 truthers believe sandy hook was faked or that pizzagate is real, etc. there's definitely a spectrum of conspiracy belief and the bottom is indistinguishable from schizophrenia, where the top is something more congruent with reality but based in ignorance like anti-vaccine belief
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Jun 22, 2017 20:32
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I'm less and less convinced of psychological explanations, though that might play a part, and I more believe that the root is the tribal/political affinities of the conspiracists. It's not so much politics as it is tribal identity. Yes, a leftist's illuminati is going to be capitalist and a conservative's will be communist, but it's not a commitment to a living wage or anti-abortion policies that informs a belief in an overarching conspiracy, it's just a belief that "THEY" are out there and working to destroy all that you hold good and dear. Put another way, politics might identify the "who?," but it rarely eplains the "why?"
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Jun 22, 2017 20:50
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From my experiences conspiracy theorist who aren't outright nuts tend to just be very loving uneducated. I know that this has been tossed around elsewhere and possibly here in this thread earlier, but conspiracy theories are a shortcut to knowledge without having to do any of the actual ardorous work of learning something. Not only that, but they have built in armor of actively defying the idea of experts. Anyone can be an expert! YOU can be an expert! You don't need to dedicate your life to learning anything, just watch these YouTubes!
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Jun 22, 2017 21:06
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I think political leanings are definitely an explanation for WHICH theories a conspiracy theorist subscribes to but it still doesn't explain why they subscribe to them in the first place. I would wager the vast majority of this forum is against the post 9/11 wars but truthers stick out like a sore thumb. There has to be a reason certain people are susceptible to conspiracy theories beyond their political leanings. I mean honestly? For a lot of them they just plain aren't that bright, or never learned much related to the thing they believe a conspiracy in. Some random guy with an internet video looks like he vaguely knows what he's talking about and they'll just go "sure yeah, explosions eliminate all air in a building".
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Jun 22, 2017 21:20
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on the other hand i knew an older guy who was well educated - masters degree and made dosh working for the state running and maintaining an ancient mainframe. he was a pantheorist and believed in every conspiracy under the sun, but i do think he did so much acid in the 70's it gave him something resembling constant schizophrenia because while being very bright he was also real out there in terms of paranoia and anxiety
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Jun 22, 2017 21:28
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Keeshhound posted:It's not so much politics as it is tribal identity. Yes, a leftist's illuminati is going to be capitalist and a conservative's will be communist, but it's not a commitment to a living wage or anti-abortion policies that informs a belief in an overarching conspiracy, it's just a belief that "THEY" are out there and working to destroy all that you hold good and dear. My favorite version of the illuminati is the "good guys" version https://www.illuminatiofficial.org/the-official-website-for-the-illuminati/ The Illuminati is an elite organization of world leaders, business authorities, innovators, artists, and other influential members of this planet. Our coalition unites influencers of all political, religious, and geographical backgrounds to further the prosperity of the human species as a whole. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTRY2BEhXz8 --- You can sign up to join them and then you will be bombarded to buy their merchandise: https://dodis.co/collections/talisman
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Jun 22, 2017 22:14
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The real Illuminati was short-lived and was formed in Bavaria in 1776 to oppose superstitions, the practice of deliberately keeping important information from the public eye, and to promote the separation of church and state. It eventually collapsed due to internal power struggles and barely lasted a decade.
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Jun 22, 2017 22:30
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Keeshhound posted:a leftist's illuminati is going to be capitalist and a conservative's will be communist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEVOIO4TbZs
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Jun 23, 2017 00:52
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Wall Street and Bolsheviks eh? Seem like natural buddies. If you're a loving idiot.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:49
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SteelMentor posted:Wall Street and Bolsheviks eh? are you saying antony sutton is a loving idiot?
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Jun 23, 2017 02:51
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:are you saying antony sutton is a loving idiot? I'd say he's more of a not getting hosed enough idiot, but yeah sure, you can call him loving if you want.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:53
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the facts remain that top american "capitalists" and captains of industry financed an supported the bolshevik revolution. John D. Rockefeller posted:Competition is a sin
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Jun 23, 2017 04:24
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And therefore what? What is your thesis?
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Jun 23, 2017 04:26
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Data Graham posted:And therefore what? that greed and the thirst for power knows no principles or allegiances. dont forget that the term conspiracy theorist was weaponized by the CIA right after jfks assassination to discredit anyone questioning or refuting official government positions just because a few overly imaginative people believe the 9/11 planes were filled with explosives dosent mean every conspiracy theory is fake, doesnt mean false flags dont exist and arent a common occurrence
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Jun 23, 2017 05:01
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:that greed and the thirst for power knows no principles or allegiances. smoke sumthin bitch posted:dont forget that the term conspiracy theorist was weaponized by the CIA right after jfks assassination to discredit anyone questioning or refuting official government positions smoke sumthin bitch posted:just because a few overly imaginative people believe the 9/11 planes were filled with explosives dosent mean every conspiracy theory is fake, doesnt mean false flags dont exist and arent a common occurrence ...Three in a row? We have to revise that busted clock analogy, or maybe we should just refrain from delving literally any deeper than this Tweezer Reprise fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 05:05
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False flags are not a common occurrence though...
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Jun 23, 2017 05:38
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:that greed and the thirst for power knows no principles or allegiances. "Capitalists are greedy" is hardly a conspiracy theory, it's just reality. Like you don't have to yell about the Jews or the Bolsheviks or whatever, you can just yell at capitalism and not be weird about it.
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Jun 23, 2017 05:41
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GutBomb posted:False flags are not a common occurrence though... It's just that we have historical record of the Reichstag fire now and, for me, it falls back under that umbrella of "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead" rule. We know about that being an actual false flag with actual goals. So yes, they do happen. I guess what I am saying is that 9/11 can be a real actual thing caused by Saudis as yet another attack on the WTC, and leading to the constant state of war that exists now (benefiting the usual lot) and still be a danger that we were warned about and shrugged off as kinda ridiculous, without coming close to being a False Flag attack. I'm going to have to see stuff that can't be debunked with simple physics or the sheer huge number of co-conspirators who have to keep up a ruse for decades without a single whistle-blower who can open the thing wide open. That's why I disparage Truthers, Birthers, Moon-landing deniers, Flat-earthers, Sandy Hook/Paris/whatever mass-shooting crisis actor shitheads. "I saw the exact same woman from Sandy Hook in Paris!" No, you saw two similar brunettes who can be easily distinguished by simple biometrics. GutBomb is right, False Flags are rare, and I want to go one step further and say they will out if they are real. The reason they are not actually outing is that they are not actually real. E: "Two, not to." Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 05:52
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Reminder that conspiracy theories are mocked because they draw a crowd of devote followers on the basis of flimsy non-evidence and/or a basic misunderstanding of physics and/or confirmation bias. Provable conspiracy theories become something other than conspiracy theories
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Jun 23, 2017 06:13
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The whole "fell at the speed of gravity" thing is asine, because any logical analysis reveals that they actually fell at the speed of light, and the media representations of the towers falling are obvious holograms to cover up the inter-dimensional beings' role in the globalist takeover. Anyway, I've followed this thread since it's inception, but at this point I can't recall if this issue was ever raised: even when I did briefly buy into the general possibility of truther claims (I was 16, and eager to believe any position that painted Bush as the literal devil), one thing that never convinced me is the claim that the towers falling looked just like a controlled demolition. Even as an idiot teenager with all the critical thinking skills that my underdeveloped brain could provide, I immediately saw this as flatly untrue, from the controlled demolitions I had seen. Are there any instances of a controlled demolition that has the top of the structure crash down on the bottom? Every one I can think of basically has the entire structure buckling with the base essentially looking like it's swallowing the floors above it. The only similarity is that there's a bunch of loving dust and no more building. E: Like, I remember watching truther docs that I was invested in believing, and they would just show footage of the towers falling followed by a montage of controlled demolitions that didn't look even remotely the same, while the voice over goes SEE! It's obvious... Stato-Masochist fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 06:14
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QuarkJets posted:Reminder that conspiracy theories are mocked because they draw a crowd of devote followers on the basis of flimsy non-evidence and/or a basic misunderstanding of physics and/or confirmation bias. Provable conspiracy theories become something other than conspiracy theories Yep. There's a world of difference between "Bush did 9/11" and "Nixon sabotaged the Paris peace talks to win the '68 election."
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Jun 23, 2017 06:21
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When someone says "that sounds like a conspiracy theory" what they're really saying is "that sounds like bullshit"
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Jun 23, 2017 06:41
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Data Graham posted:And therefore what? 
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Jun 23, 2017 06:47
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Dr. Faustus posted:Not only that, but False Flags have this way of coming out eventually. I see worry that Trump is gonna pull some sorta Reichstag fire, which I assume is what many people who look askance at the PATRIOT Act and the Iraq War and just assume 9/11 must have been orchestrated for that outcome. I agree, except that its nothing like proven the Reichstag fire was a false flag, and most likely was not.
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Jun 23, 2017 06:54
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