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QuarkJets posted:Reminder that conspiracy theories are mocked because they draw a crowd of devote followers on the basis of flimsy non-evidence and/or a basic misunderstanding of physics and/or confirmation bias. Provable conspiracy theories become something other than conspiracy theories "Proof" is an unobtainable commodity in that space, I notice. VV Gotcha. I'm new to this crazy shiz. VV Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 06:58
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Dr. Faustus posted:"Provable." People in 2017, where GPS works solely due to satellites in orbit around the oblate-spheroid Earth, and with all the simple perspective proofs and mathematical proofs, still believe it's a lie that Earth isn't flat. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Conspiracy theorists don't have a good understanding of what reliable evidence looks like, so they dismiss concrete evidence while accepting some rando's testimony on youtube as irrefutable
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Jun 23, 2017 07:07
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I'm less and less convinced of psychological explanations, though that might play a part, and I more believe that the root is the tribal/political affinities of the conspiracists. I'd add that there are some people really far gone from the political spectrum. For them just about everything that happens is a conspiracy theory by the powers-that-be to undermine everyone's lives. I briefly had a coworker like this who believed he was immune to death because he prophecized his death and took steps to avoid it. As he tells it, the media lies about literally everything and he's one of Jesus's charges sent to Earth to spread truth and love. Also 9/11 was an inside job My mother is a good example of the tribalism sort of CT. She's Russian and completely bought into Putin's cult of personality. Literally anything that makes him look bad is false or a conspiracy theory to bring him down, and everything bad happening in Russia is the result of capitalist meddling, including the existence of gay people Kit Walker fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 10:00
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Terrorist attacks, mass shootings, hurricanes etc are existentially terrifying. Anyone can be a victim, you might be next, and they're intractable problems that difficult or even impossible to solve as a nation. An individual is utterly powerless. Some people just can't cope with that. But, if these aren't the result of millions of actors in a complicated world. If it's all one enemy, the US government with false flag demolitions/crisis actors/magical weather machines and all the rest then the solution is easy and simple. For the individual, the task is clear: just get out "the truth" and once all your friends and neighbors have been awakened America will come to its senses, vote out the conspirators, and President Ron Paul or Jill Stein will expose all the secret evidence and the bad things will stop. Just like that.
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Jun 23, 2017 11:14
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VitalSigns posted:Terrorist attacks, mass shootings, hurricanes etc are existentially terrifying. Anyone can be a victim, you might be next, and they're intractable problems that difficult or even impossible to solve as a nation. An individual is utterly powerless. Some people just can't cope with that. Exactly. I think Alan Moore said it best: "The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless."
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Jun 23, 2017 12:30
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QuarkJets posted:Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Conspiracy theorists don't have a good understanding of what reliable evidence looks like, so they dismiss concrete evidence while accepting some rando's testimony on youtube as irrefutable About half the population has below average intelligence and very poor critical thinking skills. Some of them will flock to conspiratorial nonsense, some of them will always buy into the propaganda, some will be apolitical. The conspiracists tend to be more vocal about their beliefs thats all . Dosent change the fact that government and state actors lie and try to hide poo poo from us constantly. Its just as crazy to believe that no conspiracy ever happened then its crazy to believe in all of them.
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Jun 23, 2017 13:54
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:About half the population has below average intelligence and very poor critical thinking skills. Some of them will flock to conspiratorial nonsense, some of them will always buy into the propaganda, some will be apolitical. The conspiracists tend to be more vocal about their beliefs thats all . Dosent change the fact that government and state actors lie and try to hide poo poo from us constantly. Its just as crazy to believe that no conspiracy ever happened then its crazy to believe in all of them. Fortunately, the people who argue against conspiracy theorists aren't saying that conspiracies never happen, so that's not really a concern.
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Jun 23, 2017 14:31
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posters itt are saying smoke sumthin bitch fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 15:17
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:About half the population has below average intelligence and very poor critical thinking skills. Some of them will flock to conspiratorial nonsense, some of them will always buy into the propaganda, some will be apolitical. The conspiracists tend to be more vocal about their beliefs thats all . Dosent change the fact that government and state actors lie and try to hide poo poo from us constantly. Its just as crazy to believe that no conspiracy ever happened then its crazy to believe in all of them. You were one of the posters in the joose thread
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Jun 23, 2017 15:21
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The first time somebody told me, excitedly, that 9/11 was a conspiracy I agreed wholeheartedly. And I was looking forward to talking about it. But a conspiracy of 15 Saudis and 5 other guys aided by AQ and funded by some of the many factions of the Saudis wasn't what he was talking about.
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Jun 23, 2017 17:44
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:About half the population has below average intelligence and very poor critical thinking skills. Some of them will flock to conspiratorial nonsense, some of them will always buy into the propaganda, some will be apolitical. The conspiracists tend to be more vocal about their beliefs thats all . Dosent change the fact that government and state actors lie and try to hide poo poo from us constantly. Its just as crazy to believe that no conspiracy ever happened then its crazy to believe in all of them. You know, I think that the type of intelligence that dictates whether someone is vulnerable to conspiracy theories (or similar stuff, like scams) is completely different than the sort of intelligence defined by your IQ score. To use a computer analogy, the latter is sorta like a person's mental CPU/memory, while the former is more like how well the computer itself is used. I wonder if a test similar to an IQ test that instead tests for stuff like critical thinking skills and intellectual honesty exists.
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Jun 24, 2017 04:28
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Is no one going to point out the issue with saying "half the population is below average at X" as though it's a meaningful statement?
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Jun 24, 2017 04:31
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Keeshhound posted:Is no one going to point out the issue with saying "half the population is below average at X" as though it's a meaningful statement? That's just BIG MATH propaganda
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Jun 24, 2017 04:51
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:that greed and the thirst for power knows no principles or allegiances. “The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.” That vid seems compelling if you don't actually know anything about the Russian Revolution and the Civil War, but if you do it falls apart quickly. He even denies the Soviet Union had its own oil fields at the end there.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:11
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Baka-nin posted:“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.” Of course they weren't soviet oil fields, they were the tsar's rightful property as emperor of all russias. 
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Jun 26, 2017 15:15
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Keeshhound posted:Is no one going to point out the issue with saying "half the population is below average at X" as though it's a meaningful statement?
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Jun 26, 2017 19:53
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Baka-nin posted:“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.” plz develop or link something
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Jun 26, 2017 22:36
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:plz develop or link something Gladly, though this is going to be a bit long and all over the place since Sutton just brings things up randomly and then drops them. He claimed that Britain and France pulled out of Russia because the Americans were doing a good enough job supporting the Bolsheviks, even if he's right about the Americans that simply isn't true. They withdrew because their armies were mutinying partly because they didn't want to be shipped to Russia(http://libcom.org/library/mutinies-dave-lamb-solidarity). The French lost total control of the fleet they sent to the black sea (http://libcom.org/history/black-sea-revolt-tico-jossifort). Germany had to pull out of the east earlier because of the German revolution of 1918 meant it had lost control of its army and navy and both were marching on Berlin instead. (http://libcom.org/tags/german-revolution-1918) and British and French governments were worried that revolution would happen at home(https://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/digital/russia/civil_war/) Britain and Ireland did have Soviets as well. They simply weren't physically capable of doing the things Sutton claims. Indeed by treating the Russian revolution as if it was an isolated event unique to the Russian empire shows he doesn't really understand it at all. Then there's the issue of factory production. Sutton claims aren't really credible. The factories in Moscow and Petrograd were still working during the revolution they were put under the control of workers through factory committees (http://libcom.org/library/red-petrograd-revolution-factories-1917-1918-sa-smith) the Bolsheviks didn't shoot all the technicians and administrators, Lenin put them back in control(usually the same ones kicked out by the committees or sometimes party members took the jobs) after the Bolsheviks broke up these committees. I mean Sutton claims don't even make internal sense here, he says the Bolsheviks killed all the administrators so the factories shut down, so Wallstreet had to give them money to get industry working again. How does money resurrect dead technicians and foremen? or create new ones out of thin air? He's specifically talking about the civil war period here (1917-22) and money wasn't really useful in that period due to economic chaos. He also claims that the point of foreign intervention was to support the Bolsheviks and not the Whites, and the proof is that the Bolsheviks couldn't beat the Whites... But if that's the case why the open support (in on the conspiracy according to Sutton) ofAdmiral Kolchak (https://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/library/mrc/explorefurther/digital/russia/civil_war/)? Speaking of Kolchak Suttons claim that the Reds couldn't defeat the Whites without help is wrong because Kolchak and Deniken weren't defeated by the Bolsheviks but by Nestor Makhno and the Anarchist free territory forces. Why was the Vladivostok Soviet toppled by a multinational taskforce including the Japanese if the point of the intervention was to stop the Japanese from dominating Eastern Russia? If the aim of the intervention was to wait until the Bolsheviks were strong enough to move in (the US pulled out in 1920 the nips didn't until 22,) how does neutralising the already existing red forces in the area help that? I could keep going on if you like but there really is no need, I mean Sutton also said the Soviet Union has never made any cars and they had to import them all from the west. I mean come on, whose behind the great Lada conspiracy? This is the problem with people like Sutton, because they seem so certain in what they say and present themselves as an authority its easy to buy into what they're selling if your unfamiliar with the topic. Even when Sutton says ludicrous absolute statements like "Every factory was built by a western company" some of what he's saying is correct- or at least would be correct if he didn't keep taking them to ludicrous extremes- some of what he's saying isn't even disputed so I don't know why he kept acting like it was all some deep dark secret he was exposing for the first time. Baka-nin fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 08:45
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Baka-nin posted:Gladly, though this is going to be a bit long and all over the place since Sutton just brings things up randomly and then drops them. thank you for taking the time to write a reply like that. most people around here rather insult than present their ideas. I agree that sutton says some wild poo poo at times but there definitely was some level of collusion between american cronies and the bolsheviks. It`s like in his skull and bones books where he basically claims the order controlled the entire world. Perhaps it`s not as extreme as he says but the premise is still correct. Lada used technology from fiat by the way and soviet cars before that were produced with the assistance of ford and other foreign companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ
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Jun 28, 2017 00:01
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:are you saying antony sutton is a loving idiot? Sorry for jumping in here but while his writing about the USSR seems fairly intresting I have to admit -as someone's who's never heard of Sutton- that "[Franklin] Roosevelt was a Wall Streeter, descended from prominent Wall Street families and backed financially by Wall Street. The policies implemented by the Roosevelt regime were precisely those required by the world of international finance." raises an eyebrow. But hey, I might be wrong.
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Jun 28, 2017 00:37
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:thank you for taking the time to write a reply like that. most people around here rather insult than present their ideas. I agree that sutton says some wild poo poo at times but there definitely was some level of collusion between american cronies and the bolsheviks. It`s like in his skull and bones books where he basically claims the order controlled the entire world. Perhaps it`s not as extreme as he says but the premise is still correct. Lada used technology from fiat by the way and soviet cars before that were produced with the assistance of ford and other foreign companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ People insult you because you're a drug addled idiot
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Jun 28, 2017 01:05
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:thank you for taking the time to write a reply like that. most people around here rather insult than present their ideas. I agree that sutton says some wild poo poo at times but there definitely was some level of collusion between american cronies and the bolsheviks. It`s like in his skull and bones books where he basically claims the order controlled the entire world. Perhaps it`s not as extreme as he says but the premise is still correct. Lada used technology from fiat by the way and soviet cars before that were produced with the assistance of ford and other foreign companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ The thing is mate the bits he's right about when stripped of hyperbole were never hidden. Lenin was openly criticised for his dealings with Russian and foreign capitalists and dealing with the hostile powers, that's one of the reasons the revolutionary alliance broke down. The treaty of Brest-Litovsk with Germany was so controversial amongst the revolutionaries that even Trotsky didn't support him fully (but Stalin did) and he was nearly deposed. Roswell Garst the hybrid seed guy was considered so important to the Soviet Union that Khrushchev insisted on visiting his farm when he went to the US and did so with over a hundred reporters trailing him along. The problem with Sutton is he charges that "Wallstreet" as a block collaborated to put the Bolsheviks in power, and they did this to create a global socialist state, and they had the help of the foreign powers. So why did they crush the revolutions in there own territories? http://libcom.org/history/interactive-map-workers-councils-1917-1927 http://libcom.org/gallery/german-revolution-map these maps show why that theory doesn't hold water. The governments that crushed the revolutions at home were the same ones (with the exception of Hungary because the Soviet regime lasted 133 days before being destroyed). Even if we limited it purely to the Russian empire why didn't Wallstreet help the reds in Latvia, Finland and Poland? The Whites triumphed in those countries and Lenin accepted their independence from Russia before the Whites seized control. Its not just that his details are wonky, he's alleging a large conspiracy where many of the players actively undermined their own agenda if it was true. The copying of western cars was what I thought he was talking about when he started going about automobiles, because the Soviet Union did that quite a bit, providing alternatives to western consumer goods and entertainment was a major concern of the Eastern Bloc. They even feel victim to copyright laws on the world market sometimes because they were so blatant. but instead he said they've never built a car in there history and had to import them all.
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Jun 28, 2017 07:32
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:thank you for taking the time to write a reply like that. most people around here rather insult than present their ideas. I agree that sutton says some wild poo poo at times but there definitely was some level of collusion between american cronies and the bolsheviks. It`s like in his skull and bones books where he basically claims the order controlled the entire world. Perhaps it`s not as extreme as he says but the premise is still correct. Lada used technology from fiat by the way and soviet cars before that were produced with the assistance of ford and other foreign companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ I know you are clinging to your beliefs like a life raft, but the point is if you strip away the hyperbole, misrepresentation and partial information stripped of any context what you end up with is basically the version of history you can read in any proper historical book about the period. The secret history and conspiracy he is revealing falls away to nothing. He has wasted your time and his. If you think he is "taking it to extremes" but his premise is correct you might as well read an actual history book by a historian.
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Jun 29, 2017 02:19
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Stato-Masochist posted:The whole "fell at the speed of gravity" thing is asine, because any logical analysis reveals that they actually fell at the speed of light, and the media representations of the towers falling are obvious holograms to cover up the inter-dimensional beings' role in the globalist takeover. That's what I thought as well! They didn't look anything like a controlled demo that I had seen, nor did it look like the ones the theorist were comparing it too. However, I found out that top down demolitions do happen sometimes, depending on the building. Like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY3nj728WPY The thing to note is that it looks remarkably similar to the twin towers collapse. They basically blow out a floor at the top and physics takes care of the rest. So really what we are looking for is some event that took place on September 11 that caused some floors of the towers to be severely structurally weakened.......off the top of my head.....lets say something like a large passenger jet full of fuel smashing into it at 500mph. So when they talk about how it feel so fast, it's like no other building collapse, why didn't it tip over. The towers did in fact fall exactly as you would expect a tower to fall if you smashed out it's structural support on an upper level.
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Jun 29, 2017 02:27
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Baka-nin posted:The thing is mate the bits he's right about when stripped of hyperbole were never hidden. Lenin was openly criticised for his dealings with Russian and foreign capitalists and dealing with the hostile powers, that's one of the reasons the revolutionary alliance broke down. The treaty of Brest-Litovsk with Germany was so controversial amongst the revolutionaries that even Trotsky didn't support him fully (but Stalin did) and he was nearly deposed. Roswell Garst the hybrid seed guy was considered so important to the Soviet Union that Khrushchev insisted on visiting his farm when he went to the US and did so with over a hundred reporters trailing him along. Sutton alleges russia was specifically targeted so it would be crippled by communism and would not be able to compete as a world military and economic power. They wanted to make them dependant on the west for all technological needs. To this day most of the western world is still working to tyrannize russia via sanctions and propaganda. Who else, before the sixties, was exposing the full scope of which wal street and the soviet were collaborating? Who else was talking about the fact that the same american made and/or subsidised military technology was sold to the russians came back and was used to kill their men in vietnam and korea? https://www.alor.org/Library/Sutton_AC_national_suicide.pdf even yalls man zbigniew brezinsky was impressed by his work. if you know another author who was exposing all of this before sutton i would love to know
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Jun 29, 2017 22:50
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:Sutton alleges russia was specifically targeted so it would be crippled by communism and would not be able to compete as a world military and economic power. They wanted to make them dependant on the west for all technological needs. To this day most of the western world is still working to tyrannize russia via sanctions and propaganda. Who else, before the sixties, was exposing the full scope of which wal street and the soviet were collaborating? Who else was talking about the fact that the same american made and/or subsidised military technology was sold to the russians came back and was used to kill their men in vietnam and korea? https://www.alor.org/Library/Sutton_AC_national_suicide.pdf Yeah and you wonder why people have a hard time taking him seriously. I mean you contradict him yourself within a couple sentences.
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Jun 30, 2017 00:23
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Baka-nin posted:Yeah and you wonder why people have a hard time taking him seriously. I mean you contradict him yourself within a couple sentences. Is this another long term unbelievably complex impossible to hide COMPLETELY successful scheme by the same people that can't hide their day to day gently caress ups?
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Jun 30, 2017 06:18
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504 posted:Is this another long term unbelievably complex impossible to hide COMPLETELY successful scheme by the same people that can't hide their day to day gently caress ups? Come on, dude; the day-to-day fuckups are obviously to make you underestimate them. Duh.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:34
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My understanding is that anything they do that is immediately and obviously a conspiracy, i.e any event that happens anywhere, is them rubbing it into all the woke peoples faces.
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Jun 30, 2017 07:52
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Sometimes it's sympathetic magic, depending on how crazy the person you're talking to is.
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Jun 30, 2017 14:49
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Goon Danton posted:Sometimes it's sympathetic magic, depending on how crazy the person you're talking to is. How does that poo poo work? I'pretty familiar with bog standard hoop jumping, but the various magics are outside of my expertise.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:10
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Keeshhound posted:How does that poo poo work? I'pretty familiar with bog standard hoop jumping, but the various magics are outside of my expertise. Usually the term means using magic with things that correspond - voodoo dolls, for instance, or the old folk belief that plants that resembled a body part were good for it. Some sort of link between similar things. The crazies heard 'correspond' and apparently got 'correspondence' out of it, and think that the Illuminati gets more powerful if they tell people about their evil plots. That's why they leave clues everywhere, like the Riddler - enough to count, but not enough to give it away to the sheep. Prism fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 16:23
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Keeshhound posted:How does that poo poo work? I'pretty familiar with bog standard hoop jumping, but the various magics are outside of my expertise. In sympathetic magic traditions, your means of "casting a spell" or whatever will directly reflect the effect you wanted. Say you want your neighbor Steve's house to burn down? Build a model of his house and burn that down, maybe while chanting something. As composed to say, mixing up a potion or something else like that.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:16
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There's also sigil magic, in which (often coded) visual representations of the desires of the practitioner are created. The belief is generally that being surrounded by the evocative imagery will cause change in either the mind of the practitioner, the mind of people observing the sigils, or some external aspect of reality. In a way it's not too different of a belief from positive visualization, mantras, affirmations, prayer, "The Secret," fake it till you make it, etc. The idea might be that the secret magical conspiracy reinforces their power by surrounding their subjects with constant coded reminders of their presence. It's sort of what the nazi internet frogs were batting about as "meme magic."
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Jun 30, 2017 23:31
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When i believe something that thing exists. How do i know that it is how it is? Because I Believed It To Work. I Belive You Are Dumb And Goddamn Crazy. wow you are dumb and crazy O_o
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Jul 1, 2017 18:36
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moller posted:There's also sigil magic, in which (often coded) visual representations of the desires of the practitioner are created. The belief is generally that being surrounded by the evocative imagery will cause change in either the mind of the practitioner, the mind of people observing the sigils, or some external aspect of reality. This is the thing you see from conspiracists who bug out over things that resemble the 9/11 towers in 90s album covers and poo poo. They claim everything that has ever been said about the WTC towers and all graphic representations of them are straight up magic spells designed to make you accept the official explanation of the event. Also, I was shown "The Secret" in job training at one point with no irony from the councilors side  thanks for reminding me 
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Jul 3, 2017 08:11
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Tias posted:This is the thing you see from conspiracists who bug out over things that resemble the 9/11 towers in 90s album covers and poo poo. They claim everything that has ever been said about the WTC towers and all graphic representations of them are straight up magic spells designed to make you accept the official explanation of the event. If so many symbols for 9-11 existed prior to the attack imagine all the signs that we're missing right now for the next big one. I bet I just made a tinfoil hat explode.
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Jul 4, 2017 00:35
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Are UFOs topic-appropriate? My wife for some reason put on this thing on Netflix called Extraordinary: The Stan Romanek story. It's utterly baffling that people can believe this kind of poo poo. This particular hoaxer has obvious puppets, uses obvious laser pointers, and clearly synthesized voices. And oh yeah, child porn - but of course that's because the government put it on his computer to silence him.
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Jul 7, 2017 05:01
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I love how UFO poo poo has almost totally vanished from the conspiracy mainstream since cell phones became a universal thing everyone in the world pretty much has.
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Jul 7, 2017 05:15
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Baronjutter posted:I love how UFO poo poo has almost totally vanished from the conspiracy mainstream since cell phones became a universal thing everyone in the world pretty much has. And yet there's loving searching for Bigfoot shows on actual television. And ghost hunter shows.
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Jul 7, 2017 05:21
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