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dancingbears posted:PULSE Tangrowth is mostly a complete mess, but I have to admit: That enormous, single eye is pretty cool looking in Tangrowth's mass of writhing tentacles. I like Tangrowth's original doofy little eyes, but that big ol' peeper makes it look a lot more monsterous. Actually, let's spend 5 minutes in MS Paint to see what regular Tangrowth might look like with that eye! I'm kind of (maybe unreasonably) mad that they didn't give PULSE tangrowth more eyes. Like putting some eyes at the ends of its tentacles so it's got more of them instead of just the one big one. Why take away an eye when you're trying to make something more powerful?
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Jun 22, 2017 22:27
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Onmi posted:PULSE is a story spoiler, we will encounter more PULSE pokemon and inevitably they will contain no themeing and do nothing to actually make that Pokemon better. From what I've looked into on my own, PULSE is going to go stupid places. I daresay, even stupider places then Nuclear Pokemon! Much stupider, actually to be entirely honest.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:40
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shroomich posted:I'm kind of (maybe unreasonably) mad that they didn't give PULSE tangrowth more eyes. Like putting some eyes at the ends of its tentacles so it's got more of them instead of just the one big one. Why take away an eye when you're trying to make something more powerful? Which if done right, could lead to some interesting encounters Not getting my hopes up though
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Jun 23, 2017 01:58
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Pulse, sorry PULSE Tangrowth? You know I was all set to say that some of those ideas were almost kind of good. I still like the idea of a heavily Urban setting for a Pokemon game with a slum as a mini-dungeon (of course not done like this), the gang of Scraggies is actually kind of adorable and a workable non-trainer trainer battle, and the scene where a trainer rescues a water pokemon and decides to train and take care of it is the sort of simple positivity that marks a real pokemon game. Of course it's way too wordy (Incidentally the way you're presenting the overwhelming words is real good), the attempt to be edgy with that swearing trainer spewing blaxsploitation dialogue is one of the most juvenile things I've ever seen in my life, and of course PULSE Tangrowth.  has never been more appropriate.Honestly the thing that strikes me as most dubious out of all of this oddly are the one-shot healing stones. That's a mechanic that would make sense in a game with a major emphasis on attrition, IE that you're worn down slowly over time and have to gauge whether or not you want to use one of your full heals or whether you can press on to the next/make it back to the previous one. Those light stones feel like they'd fit easily into a late-game Shin Megami Tensei dungeon, or a Dragon Quest style marathon dungeon. They do not, however, fit comfortably into Pokemon. Pokemon is not a game that handles attrition well. Pokemon in general is fairly easy, but healing items (especially PP restores) are rarely in great number, money doesn't flow freely until late in the game, and the damage values of the game and the massive power of weaknesses means that it can often turn into rocket tag. If you don't take someone out super fast you're liable to suffer retaliation, and unless you completely outstrip them retaliation from random encounters will wear you down. Mainline Pokemon counters the small pool of free/cheap healing items and high damage by making full heals free and readily available. Moreover the free, ready access to healing is pretty vital for the central gimmick of the game, IE catching Pokemon. Putting aside Quick Balls for a second it takes a couple of rounds generally to knock a pokemon low enough to catch them, and that means taking hits in return. Unless you COMPLETELY overwhelm the wild pokemon and use False Swipe catching a pokemon means taking hits from that pokemon which means that free and ready heals are necessary to encourage you to catch pokemon. Assuming the slums are actually long enough that you'll need those healing stones it feels like making them one-use comes from a place of not really getting how Pokemon plays. Honestly that comes across a lot in Reborn so far, making interesting changes that nonetheless are born from not really getting why Pokemon does the things it does.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:09
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I learn to appreciate Pokemon Quartz more with every cringeworthy development that I see in Uranium and Reborn. Yeah, the new Pokemon are dumb, look terrible, and have no effort put into the designs, but at least it was good for some laughs based on its stupidity. There's no mirth to be had in these two hacks, only edge so sharp that a slight graze will make you start to bleed. And even then, I'd take Nuclear over this.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:12
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Blaze Dragon posted:Bydoless, when you were showing the sprites for the Pokemon you could catch in the slums, you put two base Primeape sprites instead of the shiny Mankey sprite. That should be fixed now. Thanks.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:45
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get that OUT of my face posted:I learn to appreciate Pokemon Quartz more with every cringeworthy development that I see in Uranium and Reborn. Yeah, the new Pokemon are dumb, look terrible, and have no effort put into the designs, but at least it was good for some laughs based on its stupidity. There's no mirth to be had in these two hacks, only edge so sharp that a slight graze will make you start to bleed. And even then, I'd take Nuclear over this. To me, Quartz is a game with no real redeeming features outside of it's comedy value, so it's easy to laugh and then forget about it. Reborn and Uranium actually have some decent ideas and design, so they wind up frustrating because you can see the potential to do better than this mountain of crap.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:04
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Also, Quartz had less opportunity to introduce idiotic game mechanics like "5 million new terrains" or "badge level caps that apply to pokemon you caught yourself" because it was just plopped on top of the RSE engine. Reborn and Uranium were made in RPGmaker, so they had a lot more opportunity to make the game needlessly complicated.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:26
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I only want to know one thing. Does the X in TMX stand for Extreme cause if it does then this game can  right now
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Jun 23, 2017 06:11
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I think for my money, Pokemon Gaia is probably the best created Fangame I've played. In fact, you can tell it's one of the best because one bit of feedback I heard from it was "This just looks like a Pokemon game you're not doing anything special!" https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=326118 It isn't finished but it plays fine.
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Jun 23, 2017 06:16
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raisamike3 posted:I only want to know one thing. Does the X in TMX stand for Extreme cause if it does then this game can
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Jun 23, 2017 07:48
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raisamike3 posted:I only want to know one thing. Does the X in TMX stand for Extreme cause if it does then this game can If you want, we can pretend it does, but I think it's a Megaman-style "Year 200X" thing.
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Jun 23, 2017 11:49
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Onmi posted:I think for my money, Pokemon Gaia is probably the best created Fangame I've played. In fact, you can tell it's one of the best because one bit of feedback I heard from it was That seems like pretty high praise honestly. FRLG, with Physical/Special split, more cool dudes to find? Sounds cool to me. Speaking of good hacks, this discussion has been made, but, theoretically, what would be a good hack for you? Mine would be pretty close to an actual game, with QoL improvements (like the EV training freebies in Uranium), maybe a few well-done "custom" Pokemon (ideally just a few forme changes and/or maybe one or two new ones), and if a new mechanic/type is in, to have it reined in and moderate rather than it being a MAJOR part of the game. Instead of Uranium's Nuclear-type, maybe having one two-part evo line for example, representing nuclear fallout/waste (a la Koffing/Weezing, Grimer/Muk, Trubbish/Garbodor), and have its ability as a gimmick
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Jun 23, 2017 11:57
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Serperoth posted:That seems like pretty high praise honestly. FRLG, with Physical/Special split, more cool dudes to find? Sounds cool to me. It was high praise to me despite the person meaning it as an insult. Let me use an example of the game I played before Gaia, which was Glazed. Glazed has, again, ideas which sound fine on paper and are just bloody awful on actual playthrough. Your primary rival throughout the games first region (It has 3 regions, only the first one holds up at all) And it's a Pikachu in a scarf who claims you've run it out of its home (This is a bit weird, but having a Pokemon serve as your rival is an interesting concept.) the villains are primarily an evil Silph co. with an understandable motive (We make TMs, we want Mew, because Mew can learn every attack, and that means we could make an infinite amount of TMs and thus make all of the money) The rivals are... actually all quite awful because they're road blocks, not characters. And for the first few gyms the Gym Leaders are characters, not speedbumps and none of them are really cringe. It even has an EV (and an Eevee) Gym in the final town for raising your pokemon at the 8th Gym. So then what goes wrong? loving everything. The game goes off the rails once its initial region ends, not that it didn't have problems, they were just minor for the time. By the time we get to Johto we have a new villain organization that's based on the Church of Arceus (This is stupid because they treat Arceus as an Abrahamic God, and of course Giratina is the Devil.) We have the evil team become Neo Evil Team lead by the former bosses wife and does poo poo like burning down the Ilex Forest, then she gets a crush on the Aleph religion leader (It's really weird). Oh and apparently capturing legendary pokemons fucks up nature and everyone has master balls. Do note that at this point you can capture several legendaries, including Giratina, and in the third region (Which is based off the Second Pokemon Movie, why the gently caress is that movie so popular?!) everyones an rear end in a top hat, and there's an island of those Church dudes, and none of them will react to your Giratina. It's not like the Pokemon Hack that features Master Chief as a character. But it goes straight into the toilet. Less, as it turns out, is more.
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Jun 23, 2017 12:25
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Serperoth posted:Speaking of good hacks, this discussion has been made, but, theoretically, what would be a good hack for you? This made me think. And my answer is, pretty much "an existing Pokemon game, but with new mechanics". No new types, no new pokemon -- gawping at hideous monstrosities is fun, but it doesn't make a good game. Have a new region maybe, but with existing Pokemon only. Tune the availabilities and gym leaders such that they provide a challenge. Not a Reborn-style "there is one strategy to counter this and anything else will lose" but have them set up with a coherent strategy and improve their AI. I like some of the overworld pokemon and event-dependent spawns from this hack, like certain ones appearing in rain, that can stay, but they should maybe refresh upon leaving the area instead of being one time. Bring back the things people like that got missed out of recent games -- walking with partners, the Vs Seeker -- and add in things people really want, like overwriteable HMs or HM items like in Uranium, or the ability to field-swap your team without having to be at a PC. On a personal level I'd like a game that almost completely does away with plot and HM gating the world. HM gating is sort of fine if I don't need to follow the plot to get the HMs. I should be able to wander into a high level area after leaving the starter town and get my rear end kicked. Have those "Route Whatever" signs also provide a level indicator of the area if you like. The Gym Leaders and the E4 and Champion should be the 13 most powerful trainers in the game and most of the journeying should be done either purely for the sake of exploration and curiosity, or to try and power up enough to take them on. Obviously there'd still be a plot but I should be free to ignore it if I wish, and it should be fixed level and not scale with the player. No more team rocket trying to take over the world with level 12 zubats. Gate the legendary behind it, that's fine and makes sense, but stop with the random dancing men barriers is all I'm saying. It sounds a bit grindy but adding in smaller, lower level "local plots" with decent rewards like TMs, the bike, whatever, would help stop it feeling so backloaded. The more I type the more this sounds like a single-player MMO.
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Jun 23, 2017 12:31
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get that OUT of my face posted:I want to believe it's a shoutout to DMX. "I'M PARACHUTING IN....TO TEACH YOU SOLARBEAM!"
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Jun 23, 2017 13:29
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MarquiseMindfang posted:On a personal level I'd like a game that almost completely does away with plot and HM gating the world. HM gating is sort of fine if I don't need to follow the plot to get the HMs. I should be able to wander into a high level area after leaving the starter town and get my rear end kicked. Have those "Route Whatever" signs also provide a level indicator of the area if you like. The Gym Leaders and the E4 and Champion should be the 13 most powerful trainers in the game and most of the journeying should be done either purely for the sake of exploration and curiosity, or to try and power up enough to take them on. Obviously there'd still be a plot but I should be free to ignore it if I wish, and it should be fixed level and not scale with the player. No more team rocket trying to take over the world with level 12 zubats. Gate the legendary behind it, that's fine and makes sense, but stop with the random dancing men barriers is all I'm saying. It sounds a bit grindy but adding in smaller, lower level "local plots" with decent rewards like TMs, the bike, whatever, would help stop it feeling so backloaded. The more I type the more this sounds like a single-player MMO. I'm not super certain open-world / Skyrimon would really work for the series. I've had similar ideas several times myself, and it kinda runs counter to some of the central conceits of Pokemon, not to mention being something of a balance nightmare. Every 'solution' I've ben able to come up with to make it work has had glaring flaws upon even a short introspection of it. There's a possibility of such a setup being really cool and a refreshing take on it, but it seems like the sort of thing that's incredibly easy to gently caress up with even just a few small mistakes or one moderate-sized fuckup.
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Jun 23, 2017 13:51
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My ideal Pokemon fan game is a Pokemon Game. That's not the sarcastic smug poo poo it sounds like. I mean when I'm playing it, I don't want it to stand out to me going "This is a fans project." I should never have to go "Well this is just someones fan thing on the internet so X is excusable." It should feel like a Pokemon game, which means not giving the protagonist dialog, or making them feel like an unnecessary addition to the story (So many Fan Games might as well be having the plot happen while you stare at it. My favorite moment was beating the villain trying to capture a legendary, and them turning around, lobbing a master ball and capturing it anyway completely invalidating the fight.) The Pokemon should be placed reasonably and If say... Pawniard or Mienfoo are placed early in the game, their evolution levels are adjusted to not spend the entire game just to evolve. I want the Gym Leaders to be more than the latest speed bump gate (The Trial Captains actually being people was so good in SuMo) I want the rival to have an arc and, again, not just being your latest speed bump. And if you wanna do interesting things, do it? Want to let you name the characters mother and have the Elite 4 being; The little fisher boy who helped you out on time on the sea's, The apparently homeless woman who gives sage advice at each city, one of the Admin's for the villain team that you never got a chance to fight, and the failed trainer who got their passion for battling reignited by seeing you go through, with your mother as the champion? Sure! Want to have Victory Road be this gigantic castle with 8 floors for each of the Gym Badges? So long as you have appropriate rest points, go for it. Want to change how the league plays out entirely and replace it with a Tournament like that one Battle Frontier Facility? Sure. Just rig it for the first time through to face rivals and friends, and then let it randomize every subsequent playthrough. So long as it feels like a loving Pokemon game.
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Jun 23, 2017 14:36
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I'd just have more trainers (but especially gym leaders and rivals) have full teams of six, and maybe raise levels slightly as it's generaly pretty easy to outlevel the curve without really trying in the main games.
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Jun 23, 2017 15:01
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Onmi posted:The Pokemon should be placed reasonably and If say... Pawniard or Mienfoo are placed early in the game, their evolution levels are adjusted to not spend the entire game just to evolve.
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Jun 23, 2017 15:26
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If a fangame has decent game design sense and a modicum of writing tact I'm happy to accept whatever it throws at me. A grim, gritty reimagining of the Pokémon verse? Sure, if it's mature rather than just M-rated. A million terrain types with a billion effects? Go ahead, if I can use them in interesting ways and they're not just walls for me to climb. The problem with games like this and Uranium is they had a lot of ideas but not the insight to back them up. Just throwing in a load of cool-sounding stuff doesn't make a good game.
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Jun 23, 2017 16:01
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I don't want to fight my mom. Mom is best when she has her own life apart from your trainer stuff so Contest Mom from RSE and Rynhorn Mom from X/Y are the best.
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Jun 23, 2017 16:32
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Avalerion posted:I'd just have more trainers (but especially gym leaders and rivals) have full teams of six, and maybe raise levels slightly as it's generaly pretty easy to outlevel the curve without really trying in the main games. The problem is that having 2 Pokemon weak to your grass attack and having 6 Pokemon weak to your grass attack... that's just feeding you more EXP at the Rock gym. Battles in Pokemon are rarely hard fought until like the post-game or competitive because what makes pokemon battles hard fought really don't function in an expansive RPG outside of basically just a turn based fighting game. The worst part of Reborn starting with Electric is Electric is the WORST type to start with, it has no easy counters, it's only got one weakness, and it features some very powerful mons. It's idea of difficulty is "Keep the player intentionally low levelled and deny them the use of good pokemon, and stick a field effect in to gently caress with the player. Or like this Tangrowth, I'll talk about it after the update just to let Bydoless talk about how poo poo it is.
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Jun 23, 2017 17:56
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Onmi posted:The problem is that having 2 Pokemon weak to your grass attack and having 6 Pokemon weak to your grass attack... that's just feeding you more EXP at the Rock gym. I see your point though I think there's enough pokemon now where you could get around that... for example rather than just 6 onyx the rock guy also has Archeops and Magcargo.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:26
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Maybe this is really off, but I think I'd like a fangame that didn't stick so hard to the Pokemon formula. Something like not going to eight gyms just because that's the standard or maybe not choosing between three starters and instead getting ten pokeballs and one slightly stronger Pokemon with False Swipe (maybe on load) and being told to basically go and catch whatever you prefer in the local area. I think fangames can address a somewhat different audience than the official games, so you could have plots like having an actual job (like a courier or even an actual assistant to the professor) or joining an ostensibly good team and then having to fight the corrupt admins to become the new boss and reform it. It's just, even the official games have moved away from 8 gyms. Do we really have to keep redoing this one specific plot?
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Jun 23, 2017 19:34
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Avalerion posted:I see your point though I think there's enough pokemon now where you could get around that... for example rather than just 6 onyx the rock guy also has Archeops and Magcargo. That's still 6 Pokemon weak to water, 5 weak to fighting and one that doesn't resist it, 5 Pokemon weak to steel and Magcargo, 5 Pokemon weak to ground and one that's manhandled by rock, and I hope you're getting the point that after a point you're adding more time consumed without really making it more difficult. Whitney has two Pokemon.  Throwing in a Jigglypuff, Ratatta, Teddiursa, and a Furret wouldn't make it harder, because none of those can offer the same difficulty as Miltank. Throw in a Girafarig, and you've made it worse because no Dark Pokemon are available at that point, the only Steel-type is Forretress at level 31, and raising a bug isn't an assured answer when two of the five available bugs are half-poison and bug moves still suck. Julia is the worst of both worlds. Without specifically picking Mudkip of the 18 available starters and leveling it so that it is higher than Julia's highest-level Pokemon, you have no ground-types. Though she has 6 things, four of them are about the same challenge and mostly consume more PP, one is Blitzle with its sudden fire move, and her Electrode. Why do we have to go through 5 things to get to the Electrode? Why am I allowed no hard answers to this Electrode? This isn't even getting into all the dumb fiddly bits to the terrain, which is a different basket of eggs.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:00
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Onmi posted:I think for my money, Pokemon Gaia is probably the best created Fangame I've played. In fact, you can tell it's one of the best because one bit of feedback I heard from it was
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Jun 23, 2017 21:20
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Seaogre posted:Maybe this is really off, but I think I'd like a fangame that didn't stick so hard to the Pokemon formula. Something like not going to eight gyms just because that's the standard or maybe not choosing between three starters and instead getting ten pokeballs and one slightly stronger Pokemon with False Swipe (maybe on load) and being told to basically go and catch whatever you prefer in the local area. There's always going to be 8 Gyms or gym like things just like there's a championship and a champion to beat. It's basically a staple part of the series and provides a useful way to benchmark the plot and adventure. theming them in things other than types would be a bit more novel like more proper upgraded Trainers with sets themed around things like Wrestling or Treasure Hunting or possibly around certain strategies.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:01
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Seaogre posted:It's just, even the official games have moved away from 8 gyms. Do we really have to keep redoing this one specific plot? Considering that I know of people who consider Uranium to be better than Sun/Moon just because they felt that Sun and Moon moved too far from the Pokemon formula by ditching gyms and ditching HMs, apparently yes.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:45
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Xelkelvos posted:There's always going to be 8 Gyms or gym like things just like there's a championship and a champion to beat. It's basically a staple part of the series and provides a useful way to benchmark the plot and adventure. theming them in things other than types would be a bit more novel like more proper upgraded Trainers with sets themed around things like Wrestling or Treasure Hunting or possibly around certain strategies. *At least I assume it was just because how limited the selection of Fire types were. Tenebrais posted:If a fangame has decent game design sense and a modicum of writing tact I'm happy to accept whatever it throws at me. A grim, gritty reimagining of the Pokémon verse? Sure, if it's mature rather than just M-rated. A million terrain types with a billion effects? Go ahead, if I can use them in interesting ways and they're not just walls for me to climb. The problem with games like this and Uranium is they had a lot of ideas but not the insight to back them up. Just throwing in a load of cool-sounding stuff doesn't make a good game. I'd eat my hat if someone ever managed to do open-world Pokemon without it being incredibly bland and/or poorly balanced, for instance.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:49
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You would need proper level scaling to start with. And even then there are movest issues. Most fixed movesets gives you flamethrower vs tackle, and just taking the highest four moves a mon naturally learns could screw over/overpower certain monsters because they werent intended to be level 5 ever.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:24
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:That's still 6 Pokemon weak to water, 5 weak to fighting and one that doesn't resist it, 5 Pokemon weak to steel and Magcargo, 5 Pokemon weak to ground and one that's manhandled by rock, and I hope you're getting the point that after a point you're adding more time consumed without really making it more difficult.
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Jun 23, 2017 23:31
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If we're talking about really bad pokemon fangames, I would like to introduce Pokemon Apex, a game that takes about 2 hours to meet a pokemon and in the interim features your character going to school and writing on tumblr. or at least it did when I last saw it like a year ago, maybe it's different now Jen X fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 23:51
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Persona 4 has actually been out for about a decade.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:03
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FoolyCharged posted:You would need proper level scaling to start with. And even then there are movest issues. Most fixed movesets gives you flamethrower vs tackle, and just taking the highest four moves a mon naturally learns could screw over/overpower certain monsters because they werent intended to be level 5 ever. Pokemon is routed like a traditional JRPG with levels and stats to accommodate that. To switch into open world, pretty much all of the stats, move sets and possibly even typing (or at least SE/NVE effects) would have to be completely overhauled to be remotely start to look balanced. Simplifying the move list for example would be a start.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:17
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the Orb of Zot posted:Considering that I know of people who consider Uranium to be better than Sun/Moon just because they felt that Sun and Moon moved too far from the Pokemon formula by ditching gyms and ditching HMs, apparently yes. You associate with some people who have some incredibly bad and wrong opinions, then; removing HMs was the best thing they could possibly have done, and god forbid they experiment with the formula and make it focus more on the story and less on the gyms!
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Jun 24, 2017 00:28
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I kinda like the gyms concept, but I do appreciate Game Freak going off the beaten path with Sun/Moon. Removing HMs is unabashedly good, they've always been an albatross on gameplay.Serperoth posted:Speaking of good hacks, this discussion has been made, but, theoretically, what would be a good hack for you?
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Jun 24, 2017 01:42
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I still can't get over the so-mature swearing in the dialogue. It's so unlike anything pokemon ever does.
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Jun 24, 2017 02:30
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SSNeoman posted:I still can't get over the so-mature swearing in the dialogue. It's so unlike anything pokemon ever does.
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Jun 24, 2017 05:00
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It's swearing written by people who are just doing it to be edgy, meaning they don't have the writing chops to make it flow naturally. Those fuckers.
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Jun 24, 2017 05:03
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