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Archer666 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsZgkTZZiCk What a whiny, little bitch.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:26
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lol how is toxic masculinity a derogatory term. why does sargon know nothing. does he speed up his videos or just talk too fast like a moron.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:28
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Mr Interweb posted:What a whiny, little bitch. And yet, it will work, because Anita isn't allowed to have that cathartic moment without consequences. Well "work" meaning to his tired little insane corner of YouTuber.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:29
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Groovelord Neato posted:lol how is toxic masculinity a derogatory term. it has "toxic" and "complicated word to do with men" in the same term, it's obviously anti-man! (I'm pretty sure his thought process hasn't gone much further) quote:why does sargon know nothing. quote:does he speed up his videos or just talk too fast like a moron.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:30
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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It doesn't matter what she does or doesn't do. He would have just made a different video that still used his presence in the front row of her panel as an excuse to talk at a camera for two hours. As long as she doesn't do anything a normal human would object to (a line she's unlikely to cross, as she is the rare normal human to end up across the internet line), she's not the one deserving of close attention here.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:33
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business hammocks posted:It doesn't matter what she does or doesn't do. He would have just made a different video that still used his presence in the front row of her panel as an excuse to talk at a camera for two hours. As long as she doesn't do anything a normal human would object to (a line she's unlikely to cross, as she is the rare normal human to end up across the internet line), she's not the one deserving of close attention here. No, you're totally right, it's just frustrating.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:33
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WampaLord posted:And yet, it will work, because Anita isn't allowed to have that cathartic moment without consequences. Yeah, the optics of this whole "human garbage" incident aren't really good. Most people aren't aware of the weird loving levels of obsession the rationals have over her and how they have endless hours of video creepily analyzing every single aspect of her personal life they can get their hands on. TBH I think this is a great boon for the shitlords being something they were probably hoping would happen. They'll rake in the views and ironically and unjustly the opposite will happen to Anita's work and it's appreciation by the public at large.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:34
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So wait, the CrashCourse History guy founded VidCon? That's interesting. Oh and Carl's an idiot. Goes kinda without saying but at least I learned something.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:38
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Fados posted:Yeah, the optics of this whole "human garbage" incident aren't really good. Most people aren't aware of the weird loving levels of obsession the rationals have over her and how they have endless hours of video creepily analyzing every single aspect of her personal life they can get their hands on. TBH I think this is a great boon for the shitlords being something they were probably hoping would happen. They'll rake in the views and ironically and unjustly the opposite will happen to Anita's work and it's appreciation by the public at large. "This will be the thing that sinks feminism's reputation in the public mindset once and for all" says increasingly nervous Rational Skeptic for fifteenth time this year.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:38
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OwlFancier posted:Well that's not nonsense because liberals are opposed to rectifying wealth inequality because economic liberalism is explicitly pro wealth inequality and if someone advertises as a liberal they are almost invariably economically liberal. No, I mean that it's nonsense that social issues are opposed to stuff like rectifying wealth inequality. As for your second paragraph, I generally agree that this is more of a mainstream liberal thing than some "tumblr SJW"-specific thing, though I would argue that "tumblr SJWs" are perceived as a sort of extreme version of American liberals in general (i.e. they're perceived as an exaggerated version of the flaws that already exist with liberals). For example, someone might get the general impression that liberals don't care about the poor economy, and then when they see some goofy Tumblr post it inflames that anger. Taken alone, there's obviously nothing wrong with making fun of Trump or whatever, but people can tell from reading liberal op-eds or watching liberal politicians and pundits on TV that such discourse has a disproportionate presence. Economic problems aren't focused on much unless it's in the specific context of Republicans being bad. Heck, even social issues are usually only focused on in the context of the bad things Republicans are doing; there's no real solutions given for addressing issues like systemic racism that go beyond thwarting Republicans or people independently policing each others' behavior (which I agree is important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle).
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Jun 24, 2017 00:38
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forgiveness if this was already posted but it's a breakdown of laci drifting to the antifeminist trash heap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mbPyw-VxY0
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Jun 24, 2017 00:41
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business hammocks posted:I've been reading a media scholar named Whitney Phillips who just released a new book about memes and internet discourse called The Ambivalent Internet. Her understanding of the internet is that it's basically built on bullying as entertainment, whether down to the depths of 4chan or just on the surface of the now-dead Gawker or all those viral videos of parents humiliating their kids in "funny" ways. Her thesis is that it's all about turning people into objects that are entertaining, and I think there's an argument to be made that links Philip's broad understanding of the internet with the specific teen culture war between tumblr and 4chan, that the internet as a medium dehumanizes its objects. That could be really obvious, but I have only recently come to realize the political significance of the internet culture war. Same here on the significance of it. Nagle basically approaches it from the same broad angle. She uses the Kony 2012 as the first big "modern" viral video from celebration, to condemnation, to laughing at the creator having a meltdown being naked and masturbating in public. Same thing with Harambe in 2016. The internet allows for transgression to become the dominant form of counterculture to keep out "normies" and in doing so becomes entertainment and, eventually a political statement.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:42
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Tumblr SJWs are to liberals what Ayn Rand devotees are to free-market republicans
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Jun 24, 2017 00:43
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identical?
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Jun 24, 2017 00:43
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Fados posted:Tumblr SJWs are to liberals what Ayn Rand devotees are to free-market republicans but all of these are bad?
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Jun 24, 2017 00:44
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I think the real question nobody's asking is what's going on with this man behind Lindsay? What is your secret struggle, suburban vacation dad? Are the entire waitstaff approaching you with a cake and singing a proprietary tune?
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Jun 24, 2017 00:44
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Fados posted:Yeah, the optics of this whole "human garbage" incident aren't really good. Most people aren't aware of the weird loving levels of obsession the rationals have over her and how they have endless hours of video creepily analyzing every single aspect of her personal life they can get their hands on. TBH I think this is a great boon for the shitlords being something they were probably hoping would happen. They'll rake in the views and ironically and unjustly the opposite will happen to Anita's work and it's appreciation by the public at large. the public at large does not ever give a poo poo about youtube drama nor will they ever give a poo poo about youtube drama
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Jun 24, 2017 00:46
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Groovelord Neato posted:identical? They function as a crystalization of some basic pressupositions of their ideology that the mainstream branch feels embarrassed about and would rather have kept hidden.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:47
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Fados posted:Tumblr SJWs are to liberals what Ayn Rand devotees are to free-market republicans Generally underage and prone to realigning their priorities upon exposure to the pressures of everyday life?
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Jun 24, 2017 00:49
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boner confessor posted:the public at large does not ever give a poo poo about youtube drama nor will they ever give a poo poo about youtube drama yeah I meant the pubic segment that cares about youtube politics people
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Jun 24, 2017 00:50
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Fados posted:Tumblr SJWs are to liberals what Ayn Rand devotees are to free-market republicans This is pretty dumb. The speaker of the house used to make his interns read Atlas Shrugged and there are Randian true believers with immense financial resources to toss around in the political realm. There are no "SJWs" that have such power and influence, and acting like they're at all comparable is a gross exaggeration.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:51
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Ytlaya posted:Taken alone, there's obviously nothing wrong with making fun of Trump or whatever, but people can tell from reading liberal op-eds or watching liberal politicians and pundits on TV that such discourse has a disproportionate presence. Economic problems aren't focused on much unless it's in the specific context of Republicans being bad. Heck, even social issues are usually only focused on in the context of the bad things Republicans are doing; there's no real solutions given for addressing issues like systemic racism that go beyond thwarting Republicans or people independently policing each others' behavior (which I agree is important, but it's only one piece of the puzzle). Since I started this derail I'll add: it's not just liberalism that is suffering from this malaise Remember that the alt-right calls some conservatives "cuckservatives" because they see them as ineffectual and impotent on issues that matter most to them (centering around white ethno-nationalism), just as on the material left there are serious ideological differences across all sorts of lines. People along most ideological lines are tired of the old guard in their own way, even as is there pushback from that old guard. I'd argue that as the dominant ideology, liberalism is far more entrenched and unwilling to meet critiques of what it has become over the last 10 years older social conservatives giving way to the alt-right. And I'll just add, just because I'm comparing these different ideologies does not mean I'm saying they're morally equivalent.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:51
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i cry myself to sleep every night because i live in a world where anthony fantano turned out to be one of these troglodytes.aware of dog posted:This is pretty dumb. The speaker of the house used to make his interns read Atlas Shrugged and there are Randian true believers with immense financial resources to toss around in the political realm. There are no "SJWs" that have such power and influence, and acting like they're at all comparable is a gross exaggeration. paul ryan is cognitive dissonance given form. he could only go to college thanks to social security survivor benefits and while there became obsessed with rand and somehow didn't grow out it.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:51
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Fados posted:yeah I meant the pubic segment that cares about youtube politics people Ah, feminism has lost the entire crowd of 50 idiots who hated feminism in the first place.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:53
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The alt-right and SJW left (I really am not trying to diss the latter here by calling them that) both operate with the understanding that politics exists downstream of culture and have a pretty strong grip on dominant Internet cultures. That has manifested into the real world in politics in different ways, most notably in American and European federal politics and university campuses respectively. That is not to say they're equal or anything at all, but merely both ideologies broadly understood operate in the same manner and view culture, identity, and power in very similar ways.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:56
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Tesseraction posted:Ah, feminism has lost the entire crowd of 50 idiots who hated feminism in the first place. I never said anything about feminism, just about the optics regarding Anita and her work. One way to fight Carlgon is debunking his bullshit in a calm and rational way like Shaun&Jen does. Another is to just insult him to his face. Although deserved or whatever I don't think it's very controversial to say that one way is more productive than the other.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:59
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Dreylad posted:The alt-right and SJW left (I really am not trying to diss the latter here by calling them that) both operate with the understanding that politics exists downstream of culture and have a pretty strong grip on dominant Internet cultures. That has manifested into the real world in politics in different ways, most notably in American and European federal politics and university campuses respectively. Does the SJW left have its own set of public figures? Except for Richard Spencer, the public reactionary right seems mostly made up of grifters like our boy Sargon who's living large on his $60,000 a year, plus maybe some dumb teens like the guy dating Laci Green. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I can't think of anyone who I'd name as a leading light of the youtube SJW left.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:00
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business hammocks posted:Does the SJW left have its own set of public figures? Except for Richard Spencer, the public reactionary right seems mostly made up of grifters like our boy Sargon who's living large on his $60,000 a year, plus maybe some dumb teens like the guy dating Laci Green. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I can't think of anyone who I'd name as a leading light of the youtube SJW left. Anita Sarkeesian, duh
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Jun 24, 2017 01:03
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business hammocks posted:Does the SJW left have its own set of public figures? Except for Richard Spencer, the public reactionary right seems mostly made up of grifters like our boy Sargon who's living large on his $60,000 a year, plus maybe some dumb teens like the guy dating Laci Green. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I can't think of anyone who I'd name as a leading light of the youtube SJW left. I don't think it has a leading figure because there's a lot more commentators on the SJW/liberal/left, generally that are in more established media forms. edit: yes aware of dog is correct I forgot about Dark Mother
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Jun 24, 2017 01:04
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aware of dog posted:This is pretty dumb. The speaker of the house used to make his interns read Atlas Shrugged and there are Randian true believers with immense financial resources to toss around in the political realm. There are no "SJWs" that have such power and influence, and acting like they're at all comparable is a gross exaggeration. I would argue Hillary's campaign was pretty much banking on a big happy coalition of social justice + wall street.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:06
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'SJWs' aren't a cohesive group like the Alt-Right and the Rationals are. Hell, the word has lost all meaning by virtue of those two groups using it to describe pretty much anyone they don't like. At best you could say some fringe leftists on Tumblr/Twitter, but they're so insignificant they hardly count.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:06
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SteelMentor posted:'SJWs' aren't a cohesive group like the Alt-Right and the Rationals are. Hell, the word has lost all meaning by virtue of those two groups using it to describe pretty much anyone they don't like. There are plenty of divisions within the alt-right. The Manosphere, the white nationalists, the "alt-light," young Republicans, the 4chan crowd, and further subdivisions within those groups.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:14
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Fados posted:I never said anything about feminism, just about the optics regarding Anita and her work. One way to fight Carlgon is debunking his bullshit in a calm and rational way like Shaun&Jen does. Another is to just insult him to his face. Although deserved or whatever I don't think it's very controversial to say that one way is more productive than the other. In what way, shape or form could Ms Sarkeesian acknowledge Carl of Swindon that wouldn't play into his narrative? He was sat on the front row in front of her and openly filming her, and she knows who he is. He was happy to make her uncomfortable, and she opted to defuse his little powerplay by calling him an idiot. Which he is. Honestly if you watch his video the only people it would persuade are people who already hate Anita Sarkeesian because he front-loads it with his own dumbshit talking points (like he always does in any argument) and doesn't play the actual clip until the very end of the video. I should clarify here, providing context at the start of a video is a perfectly valid rhetorical tactic. But opening with "THIS BITCH HURT MY FEELINGS AND USED A WORD I DON'T LIKE" is hardly the rhetorical masterstroke Mssr. Carlgon believes it to be.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:19
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The loonier fringes of the left and liberalism tend to be pretty isolated afaik, they have little reason to talk to each other outside of their particular pet issues because I don't think they really represent politically active people, they're people with pet issues which have co opted political language and some elements of political activism, but they are more akin to any fringe hobby group in that they are interested in the thing they are interested in and that's it. Someone advocating for their magic otherkin identity isn't actually politically active in the LGBT arena, though they may use much of the language associated with it and even think it's a good idea.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:22
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Dreylad posted:There are plenty of divisions within the alt-right. The Manosphere, the white nationalists, the "alt-light," young Republicans, the 4chan crowd, and further subdivisions within those groups. Yeah, but that still doesn't make "SJW" an actual group though. It's an nebulous concept that has lost what little meaning it had.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxiDV6kd2NA So basically, going by this and that video I found earlier, a good portion of the attendees were just shitlords there to be disruptive. 3 loving years and these people still have nothing better to do than attend a panel just in the vague hope they can "troll" a woman who said mean things about video games. Anita should be commended for her restraint in not calling them all garbage humans.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:23
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aware of dog posted:Yeah this thread seems really close to just dunking on Garrison stereotypes of SJWs. Like this: Well it's a good thing I never said it was. A small group of people reacted poorly to criticism of Ghostbusters because a small group of people reacted poorly to Ghostbusters
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Jun 24, 2017 01:23
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aware of dog posted:Anita Sarkeesian, duh Her project doesn't strike me as political or as responding to a current cultural moment, beyond the inherently political effect of teaching kids to think critically about media. She seems specifically concerned with media literacy, and really had no idea that talking critically about video games would have any larger cultural or political implications because she really was just a normal person from outside any internet bubbles. The videos she made prior to the video games ones were all doing the same sort of educational project with tv and toy commercials and things. She might be fighting the culture war now, but she was dragooned in.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:28
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Tesseraction posted:In what way, shape or form could Ms Sarkeesian acknowledge Carl of Swindon that wouldn't play into his narrative? He was sat on the front row in front of her and openly filming her, and she knows who he is. He was happy to make her uncomfortable, and she opted to defuse his little powerplay by calling him an idiot. Which he is. Why did she have to address Carlgon personally instead of let's say point out of his videos actually contribute to cyber abuse. I guess that would've been a much greater ownage of the rationals to me, to point them out to their faces in detail how they are fact, garbage humans. It feels a lot less useful to just state it directly. About the point of swaying people, yeah well I'll drop it because who cares about this internet drama anyway. It just reminds me of the "Deplorables" style of activist/public discourse which I think is counterproductive, even if in this specific case I know she probably has a personal moral right to do it.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:41
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Fados posted:Why did she have to address Carlgon personally instead of let's say point out of his videos actually contribute to cyber abuse. I guess that would've been a much greater ownage of the rationals to me, to point them out to their faces in detail how they are fact, garbage humans. It feels a lot less useful to just state it directly. About the point of swaying people, yeah well I'll drop it because who cares about this internet drama anyway. It just reminds me of the "Deplorables" style of activist/public discourse which I think is counterproductive, even if in this specific case I know she probably has a personal moral right to do it. Honestly, the way he's melting down on Twitter right now, going for the quip instead of anything more substantial was the better call.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:42
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