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Hillary was right- Single payer healthcare will never ever come to pass.
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Jun 24, 2017 12:20
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I get, in light of everything, why the push for single payer is important, and the momentum towards positive change is definitely in its favor, vs. something like French multipayer. Having said that, I think it's important to remember that there's a significant chunk of people for whom single payer won't be a significant material benefit - because they're healthy and don't have medical costs currently. Yes, of course there's a very significant peace of mind that single payer would give, but the economic malaise of poo poo like the gig economy isn't going to be ameliorated by providing health coverage. So talk about it, but don't make it the entirety of your pitch.
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Jun 24, 2017 13:14
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actually it benefits everyone to not have tens of thousands of people dying every year from lack of health insurance hth you little ghoul
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Jun 24, 2017 13:17
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NewForumSoftware posted:actually it benefits everyone to not have tens of thousands of people dying every year from lack of health insurance
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Jun 24, 2017 13:18
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for some, it will be an awful downgrade. I'm talking about people who like to compare plans on the he open market and read their explanation of benefits forms to figure out whether the co-insurance rate is bumping up against deductible limits and maybe they should put more in the health savings account next year for the tax savings. we need to be mindful of how much single payer will hurt these people.
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Jun 24, 2017 13:22
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I get, in light of everything, why the push for single payer is important, and the momentum towards positive change is definitely in its favor, vs. something like French multipayer. actually singlepayer would help people trapped in the gig economy cause they would have benefits and health care! regardless, no-ones making singlepayer the entirety of their pitch. the dems refuse to have a pitch, and the left has a plethora of ideas aside from singlepayer the thirdwayers deride as childish and unpragmatic. Condiv has issued a correction as of 13:30 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 13:28
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Joementum posted:for some, it will be an awful downgrade. I'm talking about people who like to compare plans on the he open market and read their explanation of benefits forms to figure out whether the co-insurance rate is bumping up against deductible limits and maybe they should put more in the health savings account next year for the tax savings.  situation that arises from not having a sane system in the first place and yeah i concede there should be more care taken with the transition but not as an excuse to kill the bill. there's a reason why passage takes time for these things
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Jun 24, 2017 13:29
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Al! posted:wait wasn't genentech the company from office space Initech
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Jun 24, 2017 13:34
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NewForumSoftware posted:actually it benefits everyone to not have tens of thousands of people dying every year from lack of health insurance if people voted on the basis of giving a poo poo about other people... we'd be in a real different world Condiv posted:actually singlepayer would help people trapped in the gig economy cause they would have benefits and health care! like I said: I think it's a good thing at this point and if that's the most we can get, it's still a great accomplishment.
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Jun 24, 2017 13:39
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Condiv posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam/comments/6j5rkb/stfu_about_single_payer/ lol, A reminder that California has the same population or more population than countries like Canada that already have a good single payer system.
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Jun 24, 2017 13:45
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Joementum posted:for some, it will be an awful downgrade. I'm talking about people who like to compare plans on the he open market and read their explanation of benefits forms to figure out whether the co-insurance rate is bumping up against deductible limits and maybe they should put more in the health savings account next year for the tax savings. WJ is truly so wise 
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Jun 24, 2017 13:50
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Joementum posted:for some, it will be an awful downgrade. I'm talking about people who like to compare plans on the he open market and read their explanation of benefits forms to figure out whether the co-insurance rate is bumping up against deductible limits and maybe they should put more in the health savings account next year for the tax savings. I would just open up gulags for vox writers.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:18
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Joementum posted:for some, it will be an awful downgrade. I'm talking about people who like to compare plans on the he open market and read their explanation of benefits forms to figure out whether the co-insurance rate is bumping up against deductible limits and maybe they should put more in the health savings account next year for the tax savings. I actually know people in England. One of them needed physical therapy and had to wait several months before starting it. A few years ago I hurt my knee while cycling. Thankfully, I have good insurance and was able to get in and work with a therapist in a week. I was back on my bike in less time than my friend had spent just waiting for his therapy to start. Had I needed to wait as long, I would have missed an entire season and lost a lot more cycling fitness than I actually did.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:34
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i hurt my knee yachting last year
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Jun 24, 2017 14:48
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Nonsense posted:i hurt my knee yachting last year guillotine
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Jun 24, 2017 14:48
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same
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Jun 24, 2017 14:49
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Having said that, I think it's important to remember that there's a significant chunk of people for whom single payer won't be a significant material benefit - because they're healthy and don't have medical costs currently. Right up until the moment that they're not.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:Right up until the moment that they're not. Yah. Everybody's healthy until "is that blood in the toilet," or "what's this weird lump?"
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Jun 24, 2017 14:55
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navyjack posted:Yah. Everybody's healthy until "is that blood in the toilet," or "what's this weird lump?" logans run, problem solved
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Jun 24, 2017 14:56
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navyjack posted:Yah. Everybody's healthy until "is that blood in the toilet," or "what's this weird lump?" You'd be surprised how long it takes until something 'needs' to be done about bloody stools
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Jun 24, 2017 15:01
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Jun 24, 2017 15:01
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The most CSPAM robot is obviously Box from Logan's Run
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Jun 24, 2017 15:03
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Joementum posted:for some, it will be an awful downgrade. I'm talking about people who like to compare plans on the he open market and read their explanation of benefits forms to figure out whether the co-insurance rate is bumping up against deductible limits and maybe they should put more in the health savings account next year for the tax savings. love to shop around for health insurance.
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Jun 24, 2017 15:10
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lmao obama touring the healthcare marketplace as a good thing.
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Jun 24, 2017 15:11
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yes
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Jun 24, 2017 15:13
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Darkman Fanpage posted:lmao obama touring the healthcare marketplace as a good thing. Let's put our trust in the same insurance scum who basically created the whole trainwreck.
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Jun 24, 2017 15:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:Right up until the moment that they're not. again, if people voted on that basis, we'd be living in a very different world the suggestion isn't that single payer isn't a good idea, it's that it's not the best thing to centerpiece a campaign around, vs. poo poo like "here's how we're gonna put more money in your pocket" - which, for most people, single payer wouldn't, at least not in the short term.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:05
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We probably do need a better way to convince the sort of mostly-healthy idiot who thinks they don't actually need health insurance at all right now that they would benefit from single-payer than gently caress YOU YOU SELFISH rear end in a top hat. I think we're closer to single-payer (or similar) being politically possible in the U.S. than we've been in a long long time, but there are still obstacles, and pretending otherwise does no one any good. (This isn't, O furious person already typing gently caress YOU YOU SELFISH rear end in a top hat at me, an argument that we shouldn't pursue it. It's about thinking about ways to actually succeed at getting there.)
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Jun 24, 2017 16:23
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And yes, a lot of those obstacles are among our supposed Democratic allies, and it's probably time we stopped pretending that wasn't the case, too.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:24
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:again, if people voted on that basis, we'd be living in a very different world this would be great criticism if anyone was doing anything like that. centrists sure aren't, cause their campaigns are so devoid of substance they have no centerpiece except "face a slower death with me!!" leftists are all about putting more money in your pocket and trying to help PoC tho
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Jun 24, 2017 16:24
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Jun 24, 2017 16:25
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even for those people who understand why they need health coverage even if they're not sick, the material gains from having that seem less than like, say, guarantees of good employment
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Jun 24, 2017 16:25
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docbeard posted:And yes, a lot of those obstacles are among our supposed Democratic allies, and it's probably time we stopped pretending that wasn't the case, too.  i never want to hear someone say "nancy pelosi supports singlepayer!" again. she very obviously doesn't and she and the dem establishment are gaslighting the left again after they attempted to do away with singlepayer as a goal in 2016
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Jun 24, 2017 16:26
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all this is to say that i'd like to hear the 2020 version of bernie talk more about labor
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Jun 24, 2017 16:27
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docbeard posted:And yes, a lot of those obstacles are among our supposed Democratic allies, and it's probably time we stopped pretending that wasn't the case, too. we aren't. But there does need to be serious discourse about cleaning house. If such a thing is possible, it isn't on Twitter
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Jun 24, 2017 16:28
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I duno why people call it single player as if we come together isn't it multi player?
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Jun 24, 2017 16:28
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:even for those people who understand why they need health coverage even if they're not sick, the material gains from having that seem less than like, say, guarantees of good employment speaking as someone who had a nice little period of insurancelessness for 6 years, this is not true. even though i didn't get anything terrible during that time, if I had any kind of issue I just had to hope it wasn't something more severe cause i sure as gently caress couldn't afford to get it checked. i remember when i first learned i have winter eczema, a patch appeared on my arm and kept growing over weeks, and not knowing what it was i had no idea what to do. worse, it was turning yellow and gross looking., so i was freaked the hell out that I had some sort of skin fungus and that I was literally rotting away while living. my dad finally spotted me $100 so i could see a dermatologist and I learned I needed special lotions in winter to keep my skin healthy, but i was lucky that I had parents that could do that for me. any young person without health insurance almost certainly goes through the same (unless they're the biggest idiot on earth) thanks to how insanely expensive treatment is without insurance.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:30
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Al! posted:guillotine
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Jun 24, 2017 16:31
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i finally have insurance now because i moved to a country that gives everyone who works health insurance, and better yet which has medicine and doctors that aren't so expensive that you can't afford them even without insurance. that we're still having the argument about whether we need to move on past ppaca and it's insurance plans with $10k deductibles is insane to me, and that dems are our worst enemy on this is infuriating
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Jun 24, 2017 16:33
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Condiv posted:speaking as someone who had a nice little period of insurancelessness for 6 years, this is not true. even though i didn't get anything terrible during that time, if I had any kind of issue I just had to hope it wasn't something more severe cause i sure as gently caress couldn't afford to get it checked. i remember when i first learned i have winter eczema, a patch appeared on my arm and kept growing over weeks, and not knowing what it was i had no idea what to do. worse, it was turning yellow and gross looking., so i was freaked the hell out that I had some sort of skin fungus and that I was literally rotting away while living. my dad finally spotted me $100 so i could see a dermatologist and I learned I needed special lotions in winter to keep my skin healthy, but i was lucky that I had parents that could do that for me. I mean I don't think there are any downsides to single payer, political or policy-wise, in 2017 but I still think there needs to be something more; like you can still be a shitlord neoliberal and be in favor of single payer: witness pre-Corbyn Labour or like French politics or some poo poo
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Jun 24, 2017 16:34
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