|
 I regret nothing!
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 01:51 |
|
|
#NotMyYda I do think it is weird that soap operas and stuff have characters turn out to be completely different people that were just acting the whole time. It really is the equivalent of killing the old character off. Attorney at Funk posted:Since he's an anhedonic psychopath whose only interest is in challenges that can make him feel something, we must understand Zenos first and foremost as a gamer. Zenos really is a mirror of the player, he loves collecting weapons too. I can't tell you how funny it was to hear that Zenos picked up a hanzo steel sword after murdering a bunch of people one day and started using samurai swords exclusively from then on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:The thing about making bad guys like that is that there's absolutely nothing they can have him do that's so ridiculous or evil that it hasn't already been done in real life. Any villain who comes close to what actual empires did is going to look like a ridiculous caricature in a work of fiction. Well yeah, Zenos was an obviously insane psychopath and he still didn't gently caress over Ala Mhigo as badly as the Belgian Congo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
so I'm only around level 64 but I don't know how you can possibly say Zenos and Yotsuyu are bad villains compared to the complete nothings are had in most of Heavenward. Also the idea that Lyse and Yda are completely separate characters also baffles me?? It's pretty clearly Yda but she's trying to grow up and take things more seriously. She's still a total goofball who roundhouse kicks a catfish man into the sky or decides to jump in a strange ocean and swim to an island instead of taking a boat like everyone else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:17
|
|
|
Bell_ posted:Suikoden 2 was released years and years ago. Serious question: which games or stories released since then have had a Luca Blight villain that measured up to the original? Not really. There have been good villains but not of the same style as Luca Blight, who is simply done well as an irredeemably evil person. You start the game and immediately see the kind of person he is and there's no twist or anything down the road. He's just a brutally evil dude and if he has a flaw it's that he's just freakishly powerful in a way no other character in the series comes close to without having a True Rune. Though even that flaw just makes the last fight against him all the better. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
Blockhouse posted:so I'm only around level 64 but I don't know how you can possibly say Zenos and Yotsuyu are bad villains compared to the complete nothings are had in most of Heavenward. Yeah, at the point "different appearance" makes a list of reasons why a character is fundamentally different, I think reaching is going on. That's ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
I think I played around Christmas last and finally unlocked Monk on Excalibur... is game good!? Is there room in the goon guild(s)?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
Whether she's Lyse or Yda or Yse or whoever I still like her 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
Tsurupettan posted:lyse was the worst part of stormblood I will fight you Blockhouse posted:so I'm only around level 64 but I don't know how you can possibly say Zenos and Yotsuyu are bad villains compared to the complete nothings are had in most of Heavenward. goons have notoriously bad opinions about things yeah she's more serious because she has a strong personal stake in this conflict. she's still a goofball at heart, she punted a catfish ffs. did everyone else skip the cutscene where she punted the catfish? Augus fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:33
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:Yeah, at the point "different appearance" makes a list of reasons why a character is fundamentally different, I think reaching is going on. That's ridiculous. Would someone unfamiliar with the game look at Yda and Lyse and reasonably conclude that they're the same character? Probably not. Would someone unfamiliar with the game look at Leather Vest Lyse and Flowing Monk Dress Lyse and reasonably conclude that they're the same character? Of course you can draw a line from Yda to Lyse. I'm saying that Lyse is, in practice, a totally new character designed to go through Stormblood alongside you and learn and develop (much like Estinien/Ysayle), and Square decided to retcon Yda into Lyse rather than killing Yda off and going through an introduction process with New-Lyse. This was made especially apparent when it turned out all the Scions, save you, knew all along that Yda was secretly Lyse, saving them the trouble of having to go through several scenes where the Scions deal with the revelation of this years-long deception and deal with the grief of Yda's death.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:38
|
|
|
Augus posted:goons have notoriously bad opinions about things Yeah, over all I really liked Lyse's character arc. My only real criticism, like a few people mentioned earlier, is that the end-half of her arc felt rushed. The plot probably needed her to have a moment of victory where she won over the Ala Mhigan resistance prior to taking on a leadership role, since as it is it looks like she just stepped off the boat from Doma and was instantly declared a national hero. Lyse the character was great, but the plot written around her could have used more room to breathe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:39
|
|
|
I was totally fine with Lyse, and overall I liked SB's cast a lot. The one exception for me is Yugiri who continued feeling like she lacked all personality beyond "I want to liberate Doma" and even to that end she contributed practically nothing beyond one of the most hilariously doomed assassination attempts in video game history that took two deus ex machina interventions just to go from "complete disaster" to "nothing was accomplished". I feel like her character arc had a lot of potential now that we actually got to go to Doma, but instead she ended up practically irrelevant. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jun 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:41
|
|
|
Hidingo Kojimba posted:Yeah, over all I really liked Lyse's character arc. My only real criticism, like a few people mentioned earlier, is that the end-half of her arc felt rushed. The plot probably needed her to have a moment of victory where she won over the Ala Mhigan resistance prior to taking on a leadership role, since as it is it looks like she just stepped off the boat from Doma and was instantly declared a national hero. tbf helping another nation win their independence is a pretty strong resume bullet for being a resistance leader
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:42
|
|
|
Augus posted:yeah she's more serious because she has a strong personal stake in this conflict. she's still a goofball at heart, she punted a catfish ffs. did everyone else skip the cutscene where she punted the catfish? The catfish was asking for it. Lyse's characterization wasn't the issue as much as the broad pace of the story was. I think a bit more focus on Gyr Abania this expansion and a bit less on the far east would have gone a long way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:Would someone unfamiliar with the game look at Yda and Lyse and reasonably conclude that they're the same character? Probably not. Would someone with no context look at this picture or Wally west and this picture of the Flash and think they're the same thing? No???? They might as well be separate people then!!!! I know there's a running gag on the forums about goon face blindness but this is some next level poo poo. To be more serious, she's still the same character, not that bright, impulsive, quick to fight as her initial reaction (See for example: Catfish Punt, jumping into an ocean just cause she wanted a nice swim instead of taking the boat, literally every cutscene she has a fight in, leaping at Zenos headfirst twice!). She's the star of the show this expansion and it's entirely about things near and dear to her heart and her growing up into a position of actual influence and power. yes she's markedly different from Yda in ARR/HW and even has a new outfit! The former is called character development, the latter is people changing clothes. Don't be dense.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:46
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:Would someone unfamiliar with the game look at Yda and Lyse and reasonably conclude that they're the same character? Probably not. That's how disguises generally work, yeah. Would someone unfamiliar with this game look at a character wearing a mask and reasonably conclude that there is absolutely nothing being hidden under that mask? quote:I'm saying that Lyse is, in practice, a totally new character designed to go through Stormblood alongside you and learn and develop (much like Estinien/Ysayle), and Square decided to retcon Yda into Lyse rather than killing Yda off and going through an introduction process with New-Lyse. This was made especially apparent when it turned out all the Scions, save you, knew all along that Yda was secretly Lyse, saving them the trouble of having to go through several scenes where the Scions deal with the revelation of this years-long deception and deal with the grief of Yda's death. Or, call me crazy, it's the same character being shown from a dramatically different perspective than we are used to. Because that's what happens when characters are three-dimensional, they act differently in different situations, and they tell you things about themselves you didn't know before. She's been shown acting uncharacteristically seriously at times ever since ARR's ending. This was being hinted at for a while now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
Lyse didn't really do anything the entire expansion, she just took credit from other characters for some mysterious reason. She didn't fight or defeat any enemies, she didn't organize anything (Raubahn, Pipin, that Gyr Abanian old guy, Alisae, Gosetsu, Yugiri, and Alphinaud all did WAY more actual planning and strategy making than Lyse did) or do much of anything to great effect at all. She was just there in cutscenes and people treated her with way more importance than she actually earned/deserved. Even loving Thancred did more than she did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:48
|
|
|
Kanfy posted:I was totally fine with Lyse, and overall I liked SB's cast a lot.The one exception for me is Yugiri who continued feeling like she lacked all personality beyond "I want to liberate Doma" and even to that end she contributed practically nothing beyond one of the most hilariously doomed assassination attempts in video game history that took two deus ex machina interventions just to go from "complete disaster" to "nothing was accomplished". homeless snail fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jun 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
pissdude posted:Lyse didn't really do anything the entire expansion, she just took credit from other characters for some mysterious reason. She didn't fight or defeat any enemies, she didn't organize anything (Raubahn, Pipin, that Gyr Abanian old guy, Alisae, Gosetsu, Yugiri, and Alphinaud all did WAY more actual planning and strategy making than Lyse did) or do much of anything to great effect at all. She was just there in cutscenes and people treated her with way more importance than she actually earned/deserved. Even loving Thancred did more than she did. Lyse was in literally every major skirmish and army mission side by side with you.Which puts her way above "I showed up for 1 fight" Thancred and "I came up with one plan that Hein immediately dunked on with a much better one." Alphinaud.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
I guess what's confusing me here is I don't remember Yda being significant enough before for anything to be a major change. She was always kind of just "Oh, also Yda is here". Did she have a bigger role in pre-HW endgame?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
The battle near the end of Nagrand was cool at least.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:I guess what's confusing me here is I don't remember Yda being significant enough before for anything to be a major change. She was always kind of just "Oh, also Yda is here". She jumped in head first to punch White Armor Garlean General and wasn't all that smart. Basically the exact same but she didn't have personal story/issues to be an actual character at. Oh but she wore the Yda hat so she was still Yda.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
there would be no difference in the plot at all between what we got and yda actually dying and meeting lyse afterward. yda had no character, which makes the whole decision to reveal her as a totally different person kind of weird, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
Not that weird. She was mostly a background character, now she's getting some screen time. Just because she started small doesn't mean she can't grow. I, and I presume many others, had suspicions she was someone of import from Ala Mhigo long before Stormblood. Even if those suspicions were only confirmed recently.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:03
|
|
|
Phone posted:I think I played around Christmas last and finally unlocked Monk on Excalibur... is game good!? Is there room in the goon guild(s)? Game good. Yes, there is plenty of room in the goon guilds, details should be in 1st/2nd post of the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:06
|
|
|
There was a couple of scenes where Yda and Papalymo were in Ala Mhigo and they were all like "Man, some big poo poo is gonna be going down here in Ala Mhigo", and Yda was all like "Yeah, I really care about Ala Mhigo, as conveyed by my uncharacteristically serious demeanor when it comes to this thing happening in Ala Mhigo" and then Papalymo is all like "Man are you gonna tell the Scions about this thing you're hiding that is pertinent to stuff that's happening in Ala Mhigo?" and the camera was all like "Wow Yda took her mask off but we're keeping her face out of frame. Seems like she's hiding something. This is important. Remember this. Yda's face. And Ala Mhigo. Serious stuff."Minrad posted:there would be no difference in the plot at all between what we got and yda actually dying and meeting lyse afterward. yda had no character, which makes the whole decision to reveal her as a totally different person kind of weird, I guess. Maybe no PLOT difference but certainly a difference in the meaning and impressions that are conveyed to the audience by the game's story. Storytelling. Themes. Meaning. Characters. Emotional investment. How does it work. I'm really, REALLY glad that none of you guys write this game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:06
|
|
|
Augus posted:There was a couple of scenes where Yda and Papalymo were in Ala Mhigo and they were all like "Man, some big poo poo is gonna be going down here in Ala Mhigo", and Yda was all like "Yeah, I really care about Ala Mhigo, as conveyed by my uncharacteristically serious demeanor when it comes to this thing happening in Ala Mhigo" and then Papalymo is all like "Man are you gonna tell the Scions about this thing you're hiding that is pertinent to stuff that's happening in Ala Mhigo?" and the camera was all like "Wow Yda took her mask off but we're keeping her face out of frame. Seems like she's hiding something. This is important. Remember this. Yda's face. And Ala Mhigo. Serious stuff." i too remember how yda spent a year in ala mhigo, then she died and forgot about everything she did there and new character lyse had to go learn about the home she never knew but then they had to retcon her so yoshi wasn't wrong when he said that's actually yda in the red dress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:10
|
|
|
Nostalgia4Infinity posted:
I was honestly thinking of doing the same, but with RDM instead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:13
|
|
|
if you want good stormblood writing, just go back to azim steppe. the zone where lyse was literally locked away in a jail cell and forgotten
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:14
|
|
|
Minrad posted:i too remember how yda spent a year in ala mhigo, little ala mhigo, actually, my bad. which led into that whole business with the masks and SLOPPEH stuff I know it's a long game and expansions are spaced out pretty far but making up fanfiction about how koji fox and yoship forgot things to explain the parts you forgot is a bit much, don't you think?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:15
|
|
|
Picking the character who gave the best showing in the expansion is extremely easy at least, seeing as there's only real choice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
Augus posted:little ala mhigo, actually, my bad. Actually we later find out she was in Ala Mhigo helping the resistance but told the other Scions that she was only ever in Little Ala Mhigo because passing the border was overstepping her bounds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
Vadoc posted:I was honestly thinking of doing the same, but with RDM instead. I wish the sword wasn't GLD only 
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:32
|
|
|
Wrongness about Lyse aside, let's all try and stay careful about plot stuff. I don't want a CIA document either, but....well actually, what is the accepted spoiler limit? When the next patch happens?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
Minrad posted:if you want good stormblood writing, just go back to azim steppe. the zone where lyse was literally locked away in a jail cell and forgotten She's around for the vast majority of the Steppe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
Kanfy posted:Picking the character who gave the best showing in the expansion is extremely easy at least, seeing as there's only real choice. Laughed so hard at that scene. It was perfect.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
I just started playing this and it's fun, I can't wait to reach the expansion content in like 2 years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Minrad posted:if you want good stormblood writing, just go back to azim steppe. the zone where lyse was literally locked away in a jail cell and forgotten She was locked in a cell for like 3 MSQ quests that were all "Go here and talk to these people" and was a part of the entire rest of it. And the time in the jail cell was a big character moment from here where she learns a bit about leading and not losing hope from Hein.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
UnlimitedSpessmans posted:I just started playing this and it's fun, I can't wait to reach the expansion content in like 2 years. Take your time and enjoy yourself. There's no rush. Everything will still be waiting for you when you arrive. FFXIV is about the journey, not the destination.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 01:51 |
|
|
pissdude posted:Lyse didn't really do anything the entire expansion, she just took credit from other characters for some mysterious reason. She didn't fight or defeat any enemies, she didn't organize anything (Raubahn, Pipin, that Gyr Abanian old guy, Alisae, Gosetsu, Yugiri, and Alphinaud all did WAY more actual planning and strategy making than Lyse did) or do much of anything to great effect at all. She was just there in cutscenes and people treated her with way more importance than she actually earned/deserved. Even loving Thancred did more than she did. Lyse fights and defeats a bunch of enemies. She doesn't do it in cutscenes but she's part of a boatload of duties and events and is established as doing a bunch of poo poo similar to the WoL. That said she's basically a True Rune away from being a Suikoden protagonist. The WoL is more of one but the WoL isn't the WoL.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2017 01:16
|
|
