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Ugh. I might literally have some sort of brain damage, because I decided to read the comment section of a foxnews "article". Those people are literally arguing that it's the correct approach to hand all the money to the rich. "If the middle class sees how great being rich is, they'll decide to become rich too. This in turn creates more jobs." That's an actual argument someone made. I can sort of see how misguided people could believe in trickle down, but that's just way to stupid. Middleclass people aren't rich, because they see that rich people have it way harder than them, so they decide to stay poorer than them. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 18:04
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Mulaney Power Move posted:When I was a grad student I had to teach sociology of medicine about four or five times and it was mind boggling how many students at a respected state university couldn't understand the basics of how healthcare works. Half of them were usually even pre med. But like, the basic idea that making sure there are more people insured especially if they are healthy lowering overall costs was beyond them. Dont expect anyone who thinks Obamacare bad/Trump good to be convinced otherwise with any sort of evidence. A medical resident straight up told me she thought getting imaging done inpatient was cheaper than getting it done at a standalone facility. Doctors don't know poo poo about healthcare economics and often go out of their way to harm people's finances.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:06
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Milosh posted:It's just a function of people don't know about it until they have to use it. I worked in mental health for years but didn't really fully understand how much things cost until I had a seizure and was diagnosed with epilepsy at 33. I figured my insurance would take care of everything but the ambulance cost 1k, and the hospital stay + surgeries from tearing my rotator cuff and breaking my finger ended up being ~10k. That was with insurance. This is what a lot of people don;t get about healthcare. I don't think the majority of US citizens have had extended hospital stays but I could be wrong. i never have. I imagine once you do, your attitude changes a little.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:07
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Peven Stan posted:A medical resident straight up told me she thought getting imaging done inpatient was cheaper than getting it done at a standalone facility. Doctors don't know poo poo about healthcare economics and often go out of their way to harm people's finances. It's kinda funny how often I've asked doctors "how much will this cost?" and gotten only a confused stare back.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:09
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/mmfa/status/879006096379215872 Not to mention the very dark gray area of THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BEING BEHOLDEN TO A FOREIGN POWER. My idiot boss tried the "Isn't it a good thing we're friends with Russia?" talking point and I responded, "Yeah, like when your wife says she 'paid' the plumber but your bank account is the same and she refuses to tell you how."
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Jun 25, 2017 18:10
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The Republicans are making a slave class. Be in debt, have no workers rights, worry so much about paying for medicine that you are literally mortally afraid of failing to produce for your corporation. Minimum wage below the poverty line. Want to climb the social heirarchy by going to school? Care to gamble on your chances by taking out a loan youll never be able to repay if it doesn't work out? Do you mind competing with impoverished workers from around the globe for that job you just spent $100k at school for? And brainwashing its victims into believing they own the plantation
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Jun 25, 2017 18:12
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Rust Martialis posted:You don't get it maaaaan, how millennials are all doooooomed. You should google Juvenoia.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:12
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Party Plane Jones posted:another excellent infodump you rule
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Jun 25, 2017 18:14
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Trickle down economics clearly works and you have to be a complete uninformed idiot who have never even cracked open a history book to see all of the numerous case study examples demonstrating its success such as plantation owners providing African Americans with jobs and the kings and queens of Europe who gave so much of their kingdoms away to the general population and the Roman Empire where everyone was always happy and full of joy, and Egyptian pharaohs who were also great job creators. Wealthy people NEVER EVER horde their riches just for their own personal greed and gain. It's just simply impossible for them to be greedy.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:14
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Duke Igthorn posted:Nope. It is a crime, literally the same crime as in Watergate. Conspiracy to steal information and records from the offices of the Democratic Party. Other crimes too potentially, such as interference in an election etc.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:17
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theres a will theres moe posted:The Republicans are making a slave class. Be in debt, have no workers rights, worry so much about paying for medicine that you are literally mortally afraid of failing to produce for your corporation. Minimum wage below the poverty line. Want to climb the social heirarchy by going to school? Care to gamble on your chances by taking out a loan youll never be able to repay if it doesn't work out? Do you mind competing with impoverished workers from around the globe for that job you just spent $100k at school for? There is a lot of irony and/or projection in the fact that Republicans love to blather about how Democrats want to "enslave" people with high taxes and dependence on government, when their lovely, cruel policies create more poverty and dependence than food stamps and welfare ever did. Knowing the modern GOP, this is probably more of a feature than a bug.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It is a crime, literally the same crime as in Watergate. Conspiracy to steal information and records from the offices of the Democratic Party. My favorite response so far when someone actually repeats the "but talking to russians isn't a CRIME" is to immediately ask why they were so cagey about talking about it before, then? It never ever convinces them because the conditioning kicks in after a few seconds, but for those few seconds you can see the hamster in the wheel behind their eyes panic, run super fast, then have a heart attack and die.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:20
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Avalanche posted:Well you see the BCRA was a direct response to OBAMACARE which would of completely bankrupted the entire country and took away everyone's job because something something SOCIALISM so Trump had absolutely no choice but to cut Medicaid to save the country! On one test I gave I had an open ended short essay type question that asked what certain countries were doing to rank higher on the WHO health system ratings and more than one student answered that citizens in socialist countries were afraid to criticize their healthcare so that somehow translated into a better ranking.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's kinda funny how often I've asked doctors "how much will this cost?" and gotten only a confused stare back. There are a ton of reasons why this is the case. Doctors aren't educated on the costs of things because by and large they do not control them. Costs also vary widely based on what insurance plan a patient has and where any test or procedure is done. In the case of the resident saying it's cheaper to do something inpatient it might be true in the sense that adding 300 bucks to a 25k bill isn't a huge deal and the patient will likely get that reduced by the hospital or written off if the patient has no means to pay. Going the outpatient route may mean the patient is out of pocket a copay to see a doc to get the test ordered then billed again for the test which may be the same 300 bucks but now it creates a separate debt that is harder to negotiate and you may not be seen again if you have outstanding bills.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:25
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FuturePastNow posted:It'd be the middle part of OIF again but with a country that has 3x the population and they're not divided at all And more mountainous terrain but I meant we'd literally be facing the same people again.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:25
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Duke Igthorn posted:Nope. But lying about it and trying to stop people from finding out about it IS. Period. I feel like alot of the hard line trumpers like hanity are in panic mode now, least to an exetent. since the "argument" is now "well even if he is a traitor, thats not illegal". as for the friends with russia. sure but it has to be on equalish terms. not this bullshit. LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:My favorite response so far when someone actually repeats the "but talking to russians isn't a CRIME" is to immediately ask why they were so cagey about talking about it before, then? this. Tatsuta Age posted:The amount of just straight up lying on the sunday shows today is high even by this admin's standards true. but toomy comes from PA which is pretty blue state, he knows they won't cut their medicaid expansions and probably as gently caress you, make them permenant.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:26
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theres a will theres moe posted:The Republicans are making a slave class. Be in debt, have no workers rights, worry so much about paying for medicine that you are literally mortally afraid of failing to produce for your corporation. Minimum wage below the poverty line. Want to climb the social heirarchy by going to school? Care to gamble on your chances by taking out a loan youll never be able to repay if it doesn't work out? Do you mind competing with impoverished workers from around the globe for that job you just spent $100k at school for? Nah they just want it like the old days where you and your family lived in the factory and worked 14 hours a day next to you 10 year old kids and could be fired for simply wearing a shirt the owners don't like the color of without consequences. There were no safety regulations so injuries could be ignored and death meant it was time to boot your family and hire in new. By the way here's your poo poo pay that is only usable at the company store full of over priced ahit
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Jun 25, 2017 18:31
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Hellblazer187 posted:Why would you hate "the rich"? I hate the things some rich people do with their riches. There's also a big difference between regular rich people and enormously rich people. I don't think that the guillotines need to come out for successful lawyers or dentists with net worth between 1m and 5m. Those are basically regular people who have very good lives. Those folks aren't the problem, and there's no reason to lump in your friend in a million dollar house with David loving Koch. I don't hate the rich who think they should be taxed at the rates they were pre-Reagan
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Jun 25, 2017 18:32
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Ron Johnson continues to be a loving idiot who is useful on accident:quote:There's no way we should be voting on this next week. No way,” Johnson told host Chuck Todd. "I have a hard time believing Wisconsin constituents or even myself will have enough time to properly evaluate this, for me to vote for a motion to proceed. So I've been encouraging leadership, the White House, anybody I can talk to for quite some time, let's not rush this process. Let's have the integrity to show the American people what it is, show them the truth." Yea Ron I'm sure people understanding what's in this bill will be a great thing for you.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:34
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Gorilla Salad posted:That's some pretty frightening stuff, so why hasn't it been shouted from the rafters? actually a statistician would laugh at him for that hard hitting analysis and probably not even give him time of day
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Jun 25, 2017 18:35
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Dems are horrible at messaging - they should be using the "If You Like Your Insurance you Can Keep It" arguement themselves. They need to go hard and say "Under the AHCA insurance for every american will change and those who like their insurance will lose it." The arguments they are making are so poo poo.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:35
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Gorilla Salad posted:Whoah, d you have a link on that "Trump winning EVERY close State in 2016 by incredibly small margins" because that suspicious as all hell. Well, I did say I was beginning to wonder about this stuff. The Oshoff defeat is another close one as well as the Montana election. I think it's not "shouted from the rafters" because there's no real evidence of vote hacking, just efforts, and if Democrats start screaming about a "rigged election" it'll make them look like sore losers. Further, the RWM talking points are 100% in line and aggressively push the idea that liberals and democrats are advocating that Russian interference swung the election results (which no one has said). To add to the weirdness, to me anyway, was how much Trump cried and warned about a "rigged election" and famously refused to say he'd accept the results if he lost; almost as if he KNEW there were shenanigans going on and had evidence of it if he needed it and the fix failed. He also managed to get Democrats out in front of the issue by making them claim that the elections were clean, fair and square and there's no fraud, which would be a clever way of diffusing the issue if/when he won. Trump was the one that planted the seed of election fraud and democrats and pundits everywhere said that was ridiculous. i haven't ruled it out (foul play) and it's obvious to me that SOMETHING weird is going on, but there's also several logical reasons why Trump carried the States he did. Florida was always gonna be close and I remember playing around with the "Road to 270" maps and ceding states like PA, MI and WI simply due to the disaffected blue collar conservative whites living there. But, still, winning every single one he needed by the tiniest of margins - every one of which went against the polling data - seems a Lastly, after the debacle of 2000 that led to the rush to electronic voting machines, the company that builds them, Diebold, and it's owners are on record as being staunch Republicans and I recall being really bothered about it at the time. I think the idea of rigged voting machines is a distinct possibility.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:38
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I'm really worried that we might not be able to pull out of this nosedive.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:41
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Duke Igthorn posted:Nope. But lying about it and trying to stop people from finding out about it IS. Period. Wait, what? If there was actual, active collusion between the Trump campaign and a foreign power to conduct espionage on the ruling political party wouldn't that be actual, no poo poo treason? As in, the underlying actions can definitely be construed as acts of war, and you're coordinating them to aid in their effectiveness.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:42
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Dems are horrible at messaging - they should be using the "If You Like Your Insurance you Can Keep It" arguement themselves. "If you like your insurance you can keep it" was really loving stupid anyway because the population in question (middle class Americans who receive insurance through their employers) have their plans changed every few years by their employers anyway.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:42
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Ron Johnson continues to be a loving idiot who is useful on accident: Lol, show some integrity, eh. You're about forty years late
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Jun 25, 2017 18:43
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La Brea Carpet posted:There are a ton of reasons why this is the case. Yeah, which is one of the reasons why the GOP push for free market solutions to control healthcare costs is totally nonsensical. Your doctor doesn't know; if you really try, you can maybe get a charge nurse to read a line item off of a cost sheet which will have no bearing on what you finally pay (it assumes no complications or additional fees, self-pay can negotiate for a discount, insurer reimbursement rates are protected information, etc.) so it's actually impossible for consumers to choose a provider based on price. And then of course the majority of Americans have employer-provided health insurance, so you don't even get to choose your insurer unless you're unionized or something. Or you are in a car accident and non-responsive so you can't actually choose your provider. But hey, free market, let's voucherize Medicare and allow deductibles to be raised precipitously so that consumers have the incentive to control their own healthcare costs!
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Jun 25, 2017 18:46
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SocketWrench posted:Nah they just want it like the old days where you and your family lived in the factory and worked 14 hours a day next to you 10 year old kids and could be fired for simply wearing a shirt the owners don't like the color of without consequences. There were no safety regulations so injuries could be ignored and death meant it was time to boot your family and hire in new. By the way here's your poo poo pay that is only usable at the company store full of over priced ahit That's......... making a slave class tho???
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Jun 25, 2017 18:57
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Rust Martialis posted:You don't get it maaaaan, how millennials are all doooooomed. I dunno maybe if your generation hadn't hosed everyone after them as hard as they could just because they could, then maybe Millennials wouldn't be all doom and gloom about your generations inability to give a poo poo that you've hosed us eight ways to Sunday. Just a guess though. Overwined posted:Yeah Trump looks like a guy that could have a heart attack at any time. If only.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It is a crime, literally the same crime as in Watergate. Conspiracy to steal information and records from the offices of the Democratic Party. It's a talking point generator: "So is it a crime to ask Russia to release info they already had?" "No but-" "SO IT'S NOT A CRIME!! SAD!!" *DEMS SAY NO CRIME HEADLINES* The other one is a standard "so it's a crime to be friends with someone??" without pointing out that, you know, they committed crimes together. It's like if you stab someone to death and say "Oh so now it's a crime to be in the same room as a murder victim???"
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Jun 25, 2017 19:00
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lol @ random citizen clip on Meet the Press "Well he's the president so we should believe what he says"
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Jun 25, 2017 19:07
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actionjackson posted:lol @ random citizen clip on Meet the Press They were almost assuredly a random video tech dressed in street clothes and bribed to say what the producers wanted.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:09
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Classtoise posted:I dunno maybe if your generation hadn't hosed everyone after them as hard as they could just because they could, then maybe Millennials wouldn't be all doom and gloom about your generations inability to give a poo poo that you've hosed us eight ways to Sunday. He was born in the 70s, so a genXer. It sucks being the middle generation, so all he's got left is being useless and complaining about millenials not just taking it up the rear end from baby boomers like they did, and liking it too. 
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Jun 25, 2017 19:11
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Assuming I got the right one here from this list of urls, it is disturbing people prayed to Trump to keep muslims away.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:12
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Pollyanna posted:I'm really worried that we might not be able to pull out of this nosedive. I mean, America's reputation is pretty much quasi-permanently ruined already since our systems can no longer be trusted to consistently deliver non-nutcase leaders.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:12
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I really wish we could start pushing the message that "pushing islam back" is fighting a war that nonreligious people don't give a gently caress about and to quit dragging us into their stupid garbage, but it's gonna take way too long before the religious strain in america finally dies down, if ever.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:15
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Pollyanna posted:I'm really worried that we might not be able to pull out of this nosedive. All we can do at this point is yank the joystick. That and scream really loudly so that whoever inspects the wreckage hears us on the flight recorder.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:17
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So, their spin now is just outright lying? Not "this is good", but "this does the opposite of what it does because you are too stupid to know the difference?"
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Jun 25, 2017 19:19
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:I really wish we could start pushing the message that "pushing islam back" is fighting a war that nonreligious people don't give a gently caress about and to quit dragging us into their stupid garbage, but it's gonna take way too long before the religious strain in america finally dies down, if ever. Is this in reference to the alt right protest at the white house? Because there are always nuts decrying the evil of Islam and other poo poo hanging around the sidewalk there. So today there are like, 10 more than usual.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:20
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Pollyanna posted:They were almost assuredly a random video tech dressed in street clothes and bribed to say what the producers wanted. Well there are plenty of people that actually believe that statement...
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Jun 25, 2017 19:20
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