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jfood posted:Making a play for the absolute largest amount of those sweet patreon dollars is, by far, the most woke and intellectually honest action someone like Green could accomplish. Pay for university, or remain pure in an ideological slapfight with the rest of the retards on the back of the short bus until you become a soulless husk incapable of feeling joy, like the Chapo crew? there's always the option of not posting your ramblings on youtube for other deranged people to nitpick i mean it kind of defeats the purpose of this thread but, you know, nobody's forced to engage in collective slapfights. probably the best reason to do so is for entertainment and other momentary diversions rather than to make a statement or turn a buck
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Jun 26, 2017 06:58
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Anita Sarkeesian's a good model in that regard. I don't know anything about her life or feelings, or really anything other than that she's trying to use the internet to teach kids about cultural criticism and media analysis. She's not out there twittering heartbreak or her cool new car or dinner with Milkshake Duck three weeks before the other shoe drops on him. She's the only actual professional I've seen on youtube who just uses the internet for a specific purpose and keeps her life off of it. Had shitlords not come after her and necessitated that, who knows? EDIT: she's also not dependent on patreon money but set up a 501c or something and secured funding through traditional charitable channels after her kickstarter blew up. Really I think the problem with a lot of internet personalities is that they ended up there because they were already immersed in the internet, and speaking from personal experience it seems like there may be underlying factors that drive someone to participate in internet culture that don't always lead to the healthiest attitudes or the clearest thinking, like say keeping your private life off of the internet if you've always done a lot of social media as yourself for actual friends. Anita seems more like a regular person who decided to use the internet rather than someone who saw internet videos as a natural outgrowth of preexisting engagement with, like channel awesome or the flash tub. I AM GRANDO fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 07:11
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jfood posted:Making a play for the absolute largest amount of those sweet patreon dollars is, by far, the most woke and intellectually honest action someone like Green could accomplish. Pay for university, or remain pure in an ideological slapfight with the rest of the retards on the back of the short bus until you become a soulless husk incapable of feeling joy, like the Chapo crew? The Chapo crew is pulling in like $50k a month, though, so....
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Jun 26, 2017 08:05
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business hammocks posted:Anita Sarkeesian's a good model in that regard. I don't know anything about her life or feelings, or really anything other than that she's trying to use the internet to teach kids about cultural criticism and media analysis. She's not out there twittering heartbreak or her cool new car or dinner with Milkshake Duck three weeks before the other shoe drops on him. She's the only actual professional I've seen on youtube who just uses the internet for a specific purpose and keeps her life off of it. Had shitlords not come after her and necessitated that, who knows? I think this gets to the heart of why Green has defected to the frog men or whatever. She's been doing the youtube personality thing almost her entire adult life, which makes people like Sargon her peer in an odd sort of way. If Chris Ray Gun treats her nice while people on the left treat her like poo poo it's not surprising that eventually she'd come to view a misguided ambassadorship to the alt-right as an escape from the incessant needling of callout culture. Maybe the left should contemplate why a feminist would do this in a way that doesn't involve lying about her being a TERF.
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Jun 26, 2017 08:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b05ksqy9F7k Am I supposed to feel threatened like an Atomic War PSA from this?
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Jun 26, 2017 08:31
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Typical Pubbie posted:Maybe the left should contemplate why a feminist would do this in a way that doesn't involve lying about her being a TERF. there's really no contemplation to be had, if you're so attached to internet politics that you have to find your footing in the constant bickering bullshit versus just realizing "hey, i don't actually have to put my opinions on the internet to get picked over endlessly by idiots" then you're already hosed the lens through which i view this thread is that there are two groups of people out there, both equally bad - those who are compelled to seek attention, fame, and money by publishing their random takes, and those who consume those takes and think it all means something outside of the here and now
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Jun 26, 2017 08:42
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Mr Interweb posted:I can't believe Samantha Bee fell for that bullshit conversion. I have a pretty easy time believing it. Deriving sexual pleasure from the idea of ~persuading political opponents through rational discourse~ is a very common liberal trait.
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Jun 26, 2017 09:28
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Typical Pubbie posted:I think this gets to the heart of why Green has defected to the frog men or whatever. She's been doing the youtube personality thing almost her entire adult life, which makes people like Sargon her peer in an odd sort of way. If Chris Ray Gun treats her nice while people on the left treat her like poo poo it's not surprising that eventually she'd come to view a misguided ambassadorship to the alt-right as an escape from the incessant needling of callout culture. I must have missed the part where the leftists saw her dating Christopher Reagan and jumped back in time to constantly give her poo poo. As opposed to a) that time she used the word 'tranny' and was criticised for it so she took it down and apologised b) her currently dating a dude who's misogynist as gently caress and being brought into the fold of rape apologists like Carlgon. Why didn't this monolith known as 'the left' share this magical time machine with me it seems cool.
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Jun 26, 2017 09:54
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Really the true solution is just to ignore Twitter.
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Jun 26, 2017 09:59
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WampaLord posted:Really the true solution is just to ignore Twitter. Now let's not do anything radical here my friend. Kjoery posted:Not sure if this gem has been posted, but one skeptic posted a pretty incredibly terrible review of Fury Road, while we're on the topic. It seems like the more anime a skeptic is, the more thin-skinned and prone to projection they become: It's amazing how butthurt right wingers came out of the woodwork to complain about how having some women as characters who do things in Mad Max, a film series totally about America, ruined their ~american culture~ 
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Jun 26, 2017 10:23
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Now let's not do anything radical here my friend. I never get the whole butthurt over strong female characters in action films. Two of the biggest action franchises (Terminator and Aliens) have a woman as the co-lead and main focus in the films and that was over twenty years ago. I guess a complaint of modern action heroines is that sometimes go into the Mary Sue territory such as Rey from the Force Awakens or Katniss at the end of the Hunger Games films. Alot of the MRA/MGTOW 4channers have real deep seated mother problems (have you ever seen the Mommy threads on 4chan where they LARP wanting older actresses to be their mommy...some really messed up poo poo..)
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Jun 26, 2017 10:49
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4channers being emotionally stunted and having misguided rage at the world because of it? Say it ain't so!
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Jun 26, 2017 10:52
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I never get the whole butthurt over strong female characters in action films. Two of the biggest action franchises (Terminator and Aliens) have a woman as the co-lead and main focus in the films and that was over twenty years ago. I guess a complaint of modern action heroines is that sometimes go into the Mary Sue territory such as Rey from the Force Awakens or Katniss at the end of the Hunger Games films. Alot of the MRA/MGTOW 4channers have real deep seated mother problems (have you ever seen the Mommy threads on 4chan where they LARP wanting older actresses to be their mommy...some really messed up poo poo..) dude Alien was nearly 40 loving years ago. americans are loving idiots when it comes to women
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Jun 26, 2017 10:54
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JFairfax posted:dude Alien was nearly 40 loving years ago. I was thinking of Aliens and Terminator 2 but yeah your right I have no problems with strong female characters as long as they dont fall into "broken Mary Sue fanfic" mode Hopefully the new Wonder Woman film allows films to be made about female superhero characters and they can get past the whole they don't sell merchandise to little kids stage (DC are pushing the poo poo out of the DC Superhero Girls line) Hell maybe Marvel can make that Black Widow film to be made
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Jun 26, 2017 11:00
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Typical Pubbie posted:Maybe the left should contemplate why a feminist would do this in a way that doesn't involve lying about her being a TERF. she's ignorant and has bad taste in men. done.
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Jun 26, 2017 13:22
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I was thinking of Aliens and Terminator 2 but yeah your right There are plenty of male characters that fall into "broken Mary Sue fanfic" mode. Who cares?
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Jun 26, 2017 13:31
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Maluco Marinero posted:There are plenty of male characters that fall into "broken Mary Sue fanfic" mode. Who cares? Almost all of them played by Tom Cruise.
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Jun 26, 2017 13:34
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Maluco Marinero posted:Who cares?  ethics in gaming journalism will never die vvvv but they're so good crime weed fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 13:48
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When I said "The real solution is to ignore Twitter" there was an unspoken "and also YouTube comments" in there.
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Jun 26, 2017 13:49
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Maluco Marinero posted:There are plenty of male characters that fall into "broken Mary Sue fanfic" mode. Who cares? And for the record, this includes Luke freaking Skywalker
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Jun 26, 2017 13:53
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aware of dog posted:And for the record, this includes Luke freaking Skywalker To be honest I put absolutely no thought into what male protagonists would be Mary Sue fanfic, but honestly it feels like 'all of them' would be only be slightly hyperbolic. How common is the extremely competent male put upon by extraordinary circumstances, that always seems to make the morally correct decisions in times of hardship. Their flaws if present are typically presented as window dressing that doesn't impact upon their ability to finish their quest/battle whatever it may be. - Aragorn - Legolas - Luke Skywalker - John McClane - Maximus in Gladiator - Any Steven Seagal Character - Any Tom Cruise Character - Many Denzel Washington Action Characters Hyper competent is common, not some outlier feminism forced upon movies. Im sure there are plenty more examples I could think of if I could be bothered.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:21
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boner confessor posted:there's really no contemplation to be had, if you're so attached to internet politics that you have to find your footing in the constant bickering bullshit versus just realizing "hey, i don't actually have to put my opinions on the internet to get picked over endlessly by idiots" then you're already hosed Yeah, if there are people out there who can't understand how irresponsible and destructive it is to latch onto something a 20-year-old kid did as an honest mistake and got a public teachable moment from that she also shared with the world--to the point of chasing her down on the street years later and yelling at her--that's their problem. Yet there's also something wrong and potentially really destructive in her reacting to aggressive internet crazies as if they represent the entirety of people affected by or concerned with trans issues. She might have just disclosed that she's got self-esteem issues that probably need professional help, but anything other than a proportionate response that ignores obsessive weird bullies comes from not realizing that she doesn't have to treat the internet like she can't keep it apart from the rest of her life. She was doing fine as a friendly head and shoulders that taught kids about bodily autonomy and eating rear end and could probably go back to that if she deescalated right this minute, but she's all-in on the confessional twitter emotion train now.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:21
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WampaLord posted:The Chapo crew is pulling in like $50k a month, though, so.... So?
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Jun 26, 2017 14:23
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The poster in question poised it as "You have to sell out (to the alt right) to get paid" but the Chapo crew is a case of proving that's not the case?
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Jun 26, 2017 14:27
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Maluco Marinero posted:There are plenty of male characters that fall into "broken Mary Sue fanfic" mode. Who cares? I care about the male and female characters that fall in to that, because they make for shallow movies. Shallow movies can be fun don't get me wrong (Die Hard gently caress yeah!), but since there's fewer movies with female leads, it's more pronounced when they're Mary Sues.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:29
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I would argue that Luke Skywalker really isn't an example of a hypercompetant character.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:32
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WampaLord posted:The poster in question poised it as "You have to sell out (to the alt right) to get paid" but the Chapo crew is a case of proving that's not the case? Oh, I thought you were implying they weren't soulless husks incapable of feeling joy. Edit: Jonas Albrecht posted:I would argue that Luke Skywalker really isn't an example of a hypercompetant character. He instantly becomes an ace zero-g fighter pilot when his only previous flight experience was the Star Wars equivalent of a prop plane crop-duster and single-handedly destroys a moon-sized battlestation. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 14:36
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I would argue that Luke Skywalker really isn't an example of a hypercompetant character. shutting off his targeting computer so the force can guide him to fire a missile into a tiny exhaust port while piloting a fighter jet despite being a hick is more """mary sue""" than anything rey does in force awakens. gently caress maximillian landis
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Jun 26, 2017 14:41
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I mean, he at least had the "mentor gives him a pep talk" thing or whatever but like, movie heroes doing improbable things is just kinda... fiction. It's just not okay when a woman does it in Star Wars.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:48
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Groovelord Neato posted:shutting off his targeting computer so the force can guide him to fire a missile into a tiny exhaust port while piloting a fighter jet despite being a hick is more """mary sue""" than anything rey does in force awakens. gently caress maximillian landis Not really. His mentor reaches beyond the grave and asks him to take a huge leap of faith. This is done by having him turn off the system he's familiar with, the thing that would allow him to wholly own that shot. It is absolutely not meant to convey his skill at all. I agree with you on Max Landis though. And just for the record, I'm not a Star Wars fan.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:49
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To me, the problem is pacing. In A New Hope, we see Luke block one drone shot with the Force, and then he does the one big shot at the end. He didn't start doing really cool poo poo on the regular until he trained with Yoda, in an entirely separate movie.. In TFA, Rey performs a whole ton of cool Force poo poo with no training and it all happens super super fast thanks to JJ Abrams and his "go go go go go" style of directing. I'm not saying she's a Mary Sue, but that's where the perception comes from.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:52
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This might be a little peripheral to what's being discussed in the thread, but I just came back from reading Kill All Normies and found it to be a very interesting read that's also sure to ruffle some feathers on the commentariat left. I've seen it mentioned here so I also thought I'd give it a recommend. While it deals with the typical right-wing culture warrior phenomena like GG etc. it also has some pretty scathing things to say about what's been going on in some of the more witch-hunt-y liberal progressive circles on Tumblr and Twitter. While it's not a transformative manifesto in any way and doesn't try to chart a course out of the lovely discourse we see on Youtube and elsewhere, it's also one of the more even-handed accounts of the online culture wars I've seen that's still from a feminist, broadly leftist position.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:52
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Maluco Marinero posted:To be honest I put absolutely no thought into what male protagonists would be Mary Sue fanfic, but honestly it feels like 'all of them' would be only be slightly hyperbolic. You're using a pretty wide definition of Mary Sue here. What does making morally correct decisions have to do with it? That makes someone a hero, not a Mary Sue. Hollywood protaganists typically are not Mary Sues; the prototypical 'kill the cat' plot mandates a degree of failure leading to soul searching. Ie, quote:Luke Skywalker instantly becomes an ace zero-g fighter pilot when his only previous flight experience was the Star Wars equivalent of a prop plane crop-duster and single-handedly destroys a moon-sized battlestation.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:52
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I would argue that Luke Skywalker really isn't an example of a hypercompetant character. Is your namesake a Mary Sue? He's the super rad king of a dying race of magical noble warriors who are the last thing standing between the world and total devastation Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 14:54
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Did Luke even shoot down any tie fighters? He managed to strafe a planet and use his wizard powers to hit with the torpedos. Later, he also abandons his training to fight his dad and gets his rear end beat. He managed to not get shot down by the tens of thousands of AA cannons. That's pretty crazy.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:57
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Can everyone just stop using the term Mary Sue in general, it's really stupid to use it outside of the context of self-inserts and fan fiction, and an obviously gendered insult at that. Basically, gently caress Max Landis
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Jun 26, 2017 14:57
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Neither Luke nor Rey are Mary Sues, case closed; hell even Katniss is just kinda bland. The only purestrain Mary Sues I can think of in professionally published fiction are Bella/Edward in Twilight and well a bunch of male anime protagonists, because anime is terrible. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 14:57
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didn't laci green have some old video where she admitted to being a homewrecker?
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Jun 26, 2017 14:59
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Terrible Opinions posted:Neither Luke nor Rey are Mary Sues, case closed; hell even Katniss is just kinda bland. Johnny in The Room is the purest expression of Mary Sue I can think of. Everyone praises him, he's an obvious author insert, and he ends up being too good for the world.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:59
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Hollywood protaganists typically are not Mary Sues; the prototypical 'kill the cat' plot mandates a degree of failure leading to soul searching. IMO the real meaning of Mary Sue is a character who sweeps into an existing thing and steals the limelight completely and has the characters from the original milieu fawn over them, etc Most uses of the phrase aren't really correct by that definition. But that's being like a hardliner about how it was used in fanfiction circles I guess it's changed (or devolved depending on your POV) since then, I mean I just used it like that above
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Jun 26, 2017 15:00
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