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team overhead smash posted:The electricity crisis is biting hard in Gaza. An instance of intentional quality of life reduction on a first world nation will need to occur before it will be considered a war crime.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:03
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Greece?
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Jun 23, 2017 01:05
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lollontee posted:Greece? First world
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Jun 24, 2017 10:24
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http://www.timesofisrael.com/devastating-survey-shows-huge-loss-of-israel-support-among-jewish-college-students/ Basically trying to brand israel as a high-tech, "startup nation" isn't working. One statistic of note here is support for israel apparently has dropped in relation to learning more about actual facts about life in the country. Much of this change she blamed on the rise of “intersectionality” on campuses. There is no longer nuance in campus conversations about Israel, she said. Instead, the “atmosphere is oppressor versus victim. Israel is just another symbol of this." Great line right there. You definitely nailed what the problem is. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 10:32
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Jun 25, 2017 00:35
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Colour me shocked that the Trump negotiating position (that he probably had nothing to do with formulating) is garbage.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:37
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Ultramega posted:http://www.timesofisrael.com/devastating-survey-shows-huge-loss-of-israel-support-among-jewish-college-students/ Love the implication that sympathy for palestinians is a disease that needs to be vaccinated against.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:45
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There's some sick game being played here, for sure: https://twitter.com/MaanNewsAgency/status/878636586711347201 https://twitter.com/elgindy_/status/878790262776111104
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Jun 25, 2017 03:17
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It's not like Israel is going to even hurt significantly, sure a few settlers, a few occupation soldiers. But Israel proper is going to get a couple rockets in empty fields at best and western media is going to zoom in hard if anyone on the israeli side actually dies in the retaliation. The bulk of pro-zionist people in the west are already hardcore convinced that the media is too lenient to Palestine for vaguely showing them as people, even when media attention is 99% of the time focused on the smaller number of Israeli casualties. With the rest of the arab world in disarray, deals with Saudi Arabia and Iran isolated, it's not like any group that can do anything to fight back significantly can do it when they're mostly focused on the civil war in Syria-Iraq.
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Jun 25, 2017 03:40
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Ultramega posted:http://www.timesofisrael.com/devastating-survey-shows-huge-loss-of-israel-support-among-jewish-college-students/ It's also not helping when they do things like banning Jews who are critics of Israeli policy from entering the country, which of course backfires every time.
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Jun 25, 2017 06:24
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Everything I posted was out of my own accord. Thank you very much.
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Jun 25, 2017 06:52
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Everything I posted was out of my own accord. Thank you very much. Who said you were JIDF?
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Jun 25, 2017 07:00
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Everything I posted was out of my own accord. Thank you very much. lmao
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Jun 25, 2017 07:12
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More "intersectional" American Jewish liberals whose definition of intersectionality conveniently excludes any form of oppression whose acknowledgement might challenge any part of their preexisting worldview. https://twitter.com/jerusalem_post/status/879022906298191872
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Jun 25, 2017 22:33
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Barry Convex posted:More "intersectional" American Jewish liberals whose definition of intersectionality conveniently excludes any form of oppression whose acknowledgement might challenge any part of their preexisting worldview. So "intersectionality" means it's okay to kick people out of an LGBT march based on their religion/cultural identity, got it.
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Jun 26, 2017 02:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So "intersectionality" means it's okay to kick people out of an LGBT march based on their religion/cultural identity, got it. Yeah, I don't really see any reasonable defense for what that march did. It would be one thing if the signs/banners had some sort of overtly political message, but a Star of David is just a religious/cultural symbol on its own. I feel like there's this "alt-left" which is basically the pseudo-leftists who are often genuinely antisemitic and also antivaxxers, anti-GMOs, etc.
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Jun 26, 2017 02:49
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Barry Convex posted:More "intersectional" American Jewish liberals whose definition of intersectionality conveniently excludes any form of oppression whose acknowledgement might challenge any part of their preexisting worldview. IMO this was an actual fuckup and it wasn't being used by a zionist group, but there's like understandable wariness considering the actual zionist groups who tried to do it in other pride marches and JDL crashing Toronto pride.
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Jun 26, 2017 02:54
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Agnosticnixie posted:IMO this was an actual fuckup and it wasn't being used by a zionist group, but there's like understandable wariness considering the actual zionist groups who tried to do it in other pride marches and JDL crashing Toronto pride. Cool for them to err on the side of antisemitism, then.  Like, it seems like one of those people may have been a member of an Israeli pinkwashing group (A Wider Bridge), but none of them had brought actual Israeli flags, and the very fact they think Jews owe them an explanation for daring to openly be in an LGBT march is antisemitism, full stop.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:02
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Cool for them to err on the side of antisemitism, then. It's not cool and I wasn't trying to imply it was, sorry.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Cool for them to err on the side of antisemitism, then. Did you even read what you linked? It doesn't "seem like one of these people may" be a member of Wider Bridge, Laurel Grauer is the Regional Midwest Director. She gives a statement on behalf of her organization in the article! The other two people who were ejected were with her!! e: You're still right, it is anti-Semitic. Just because you identify as Jewish doesn't mean you have to answer for everything Jews do. I bet it would be easy to shock a lot of those liberals and leftists who were assholish (read: American) enough to demand they out themselves as Zionists just by asking them if all Muslims should be held accountable or be pressured to answer for the acts of terror extremists commit or the oppressive acts of Islamic heads of state. I/P really puts rage blinders on some people. Autism Sneaks fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 03:26
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It used to be for "poisoning the wells" and other blood libels.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:36
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Autism Sneaks posted:Did you even read what you linked? It doesn't "seem like one of these people may" be a member of Wider Bridge, Laurel Grauer is the Regional Midwest Director. She gives a statement on behalf of her organization in the article! The other two people who were ejected were with her!! I didn't read this as closely as the Slate article I found it through, which doesn't actually clearly note this. However, from their formulation it's unclear that all three individuals approached with such flags and Grauer and her friends are the same people. quote:e: You're still right, it is anti-Semitic. Just because you identify as Jewish doesn't mean you have to answer for everything Jews do. I bet it would be easy to shock a lot of those liberals and leftists who were assholish (read: American) enough to demand they out themselves as Zionists just by asking them if all Muslims should be held accountable for the what acts of terror extremists commit or the oppressive acts of Islamic heads of state. I/P really puts rage blinders on some people. Yeah, I mean, even if this was a completely cynical, calculated provocation, then mission accomplished.
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Jun 26, 2017 03:43
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What this and that study show is that if you are solely interested in public opinion, then the best strategy is to bait your foe into mistakes. This, Gadot, Matisyahu, all of those incidents backfired. The overall poll numbers being cited are a direct function of the Gaza wars, this can be easily shown if you look at things like Pew/Gallup tracking polls. And as electing Obama showed after Bush, that can all be changed regardless of actual substance change of policy. There's a core of opposition, but a big chunk of it is soft and can easily be swayed. At minimum there would be significant change if they had a centrist PM. Furthermore, Israel should immediately withdraw from the majority of area C both for this and many other reasons. Regardless of what anti-Zionists think, if they did that, public perception including the consensus of the international community would be that the onus on peace would be on the PA then. These tactics would also allow for public negotiation about normalization of ties with the regional anti-Iran bloc. This is of course assuming that Israel's leaders actually have its long term self interest in mind. FlamingLiberal posted:Honestly if the US wasn't around to veto various UN resolutions on their behalf, Israel would be the South Africa of the 21st century by now. That's not reflective of their ties to Europe or their practical ties with anti-Iran countries like Saudi Arabia or UAE who they're closer than ever with. And that's not a reflection of the reality on the ground either. In that regardless of how bad you think Israel's conduct is, there are worse actors (largely Israel's new Sunni friends), who will never be sanctioned in a million years due to politics. quote:It's also not helping when they do things like banning Jews who are critics of Israeli policy from entering the country, which of course backfires every time. As idiotic as these things are, they're passed knowingly with the knowledge that the Supreme Court will block them. I don't think there's any evidence that anything other than video of dead children really moves public opinion though. There hasn't been a live war in three years, and conflicts like Syria and Yemen (well barely there, but it's a humanitarian crisis) are rightly getting the bulk of public attention in proportion to the sheer brutality of human suffering there. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 04:56
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, I don't really see any reasonable defense for what that march did. It would be one thing if the signs/banners had some sort of overtly political message, but a Star of David is just a religious/cultural symbol on its own. I really don't agree that putting the Star of David at the center of a rainbow flag can be plausibly argued to have nothing to do with the state of Israel, particularly after seeing extremely similar flags used by the pro-Israel contingent at NYC Pride yesterday (those had rainbows at top and bottom, replacing the blue stripes on the actual Israeli flag).
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Jun 26, 2017 14:43
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Barry Convex posted:I really don't agree that putting the Star of David at the center of a rainbow flag can be plausibly argued to have nothing to do with the state of Israel, particularly after seeing extremely similar flags used by the pro-Israel contingent at NYC Pride yesterday (those had rainbows at top and bottom, replacing the blue stripes on the actual Israeli flag). It's really not their fault that Israel decided to use one of the two most major symbols of their religion on their national flag.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:48
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/26/jewish-diaspora-angry-as-netanyahu-scraps-western-wall-mixed-prayer-plan Didn't even know the Western Wall was gender-segregated.
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Jun 26, 2017 15:03
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fool_of_sound posted:It's really not their fault that Israel decided to use one of the two most major symbols of their religion on their national flag. From my own experiences with the Jewish community, I highly doubt that anyone who would wave a Star of David flag in 2017 would see it as a wholly apolitical expression of Jewish identity that has nothing to do with the state of Israel. I don't agree that it deserves the benefit of the doubt. If they were just wearing the Star of David on T-shirts or hats or buttons, fine, leave them be, but flags have symbolic value beyond those and the organizers were right to identify them as pro-Israel. There are no reports of Jews at the Dyke March who weren't waving such flags experiencing harassment, for what that's worth.
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Jun 26, 2017 15:08
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Barry Convex posted:From my own experiences with the Jewish community, I highly doubt that anyone who would wave a Star of David flag in 2017 would see it as a wholly apolitical expression of Jewish identity that has nothing to do with the state of Israel. I don't agree that it deserves the benefit of the doubt. Jewish identity, inherently, cannot be apolitical. wtf
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Jun 26, 2017 15:13
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Barry Convex posted:From my own experiences with the Jewish community, I highly doubt that anyone who would wave a Star of David flag in 2017 would see it as a wholly apolitical expression of Jewish identity that has nothing to do with the state of Israel. I don't agree that it deserves the benefit of the doubt. And Muslims that wave a star and crescent flag must support Turkey and Erdogan???
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Jun 26, 2017 15:18
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fool_of_sound posted:And Muslims that wave a star and crescent flag must support Turkey and Erdogan??? Nebalebadingdong posted:Jewish identity, inherently, cannot be apolitical. wtf *sigh* tl; dr: Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism; a huge Star of David at the center of a flag is inherently Zionist in the current cultural and political context; there are no reports of Jews at the Dyke March other than the three flag-wavers being harassed. I guess the second of those is more controversial on the left than I had thought, but c'est la vie. I stand by it. I absolutely agree that negatively conflating Jewish identity with support for Israel is anti-Semitic and should be condemned whenever and wherever it happens. I just don't think that's what happened here. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 15:29
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Barry Convex posted:Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism; a huge Star of David at the center of a flag is inherently Zionist These two statements are contradictory. The Star of David marching in solidarity with unconditional Palestinian liberation is a good thing
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Jun 26, 2017 15:42
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DarkCrawler posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/26/jewish-diaspora-angry-as-netanyahu-scraps-western-wall-mixed-prayer-plan yes but you see what really matters is 
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Jun 26, 2017 15:45
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Barry Convex posted:*sigh* tl; dr: Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism; a huge Star of David at the center of a flag is inherently Zionist in the current cultural and political context; there are no reports of Jews at the Dyke March other than the three flag-wavers being harassed. A black man in a hoodie in this neighbourhood? I think we all know what that means he's doing.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:44
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team overhead smash posted:A black man in a hoodie in this neighbourhood? I think we all know what that means he's doing. It's a rainbow flag with a Star of David in exactly the same size and position as on the Israeli flag. If you want to believe that it conveys absolutely nothing political beyond a mere expression of dual LGBT and Jewish identity and that any suggestion to the contrary is anti-Semitic, not like I can convince you otherwise, but again, I stand by it.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:01
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Dissolve the dichotomy man. Don't let Israeli expansionists take over Jewish symbols, heck I think it's a mistake to let them feel like they own the Israeli flag or even the concept of Zionism.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:06
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Dissolve the dichotomy man. Don't let Israeli expansionists take over Jewish symbols, heck I think it's a mistake to let them feel like they own the Israeli flag or even the concept of Zionism. I sort of agree, insofar as the relevant question raised by the Dyke March should be whether there's still a place for Zionism under the tent of leftism, not whether this specific anti-Zionist action was also anti-Semitic. I lean more towards the Dyke March organizers on this, personally, but it's a perfectly valid debate to have and it's one that those crying anti-Semitism are obfuscating, intentionally or otherwise. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 18:28
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Barry Convex posted:It's a rainbow flag with a Star of David in exactly the same size and position as on the Israeli flag. If you want to believe that it conveys absolutely nothing political beyond a mere expression of dual LGBT and Jewish identity and that any suggestion to the contrary is anti-Semitic, not like I can convince you otherwise, but again, I stand by it. Honest question - what exactly would you propose as an alternative? If I were LGBT and wanted to make a flag/banner indicating both LGBT and Jewish pride, a Star of David on a rainbow background is kind of the most obvious choice. There aren't many other symbols that are generally recognized by the public as being Jewish.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:34
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Barry Convex posted:It's a rainbow flag with a Star of David in exactly the same size and position as on the Israeli flag. If you want to believe that it conveys absolutely nothing political beyond a mere expression of dual LGBT and Jewish identity and that any suggestion to the contrary is anti-Semitic, not like I can convince you otherwise, but again, I stand by it. The star on the pride flag is not the same size as the Israeli flag
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Jun 26, 2017 19:47
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Barry Convex posted:It's a rainbow flag with a Star of David in exactly the same size and position as on the Israeli flag. If you want to believe that it conveys absolutely nothing political beyond a mere expression of dual LGBT and Jewish identity and that any suggestion to the contrary is anti-Semitic, not like I can convince you otherwise, but again, I stand by it. It's a black man walking through a neighbourhood of predominantly white people wearing clothes that show is social-economically is not a member of the community. If you want to believe that it conveys absolutely nothing criminal and is just an expression of freedom as a man happens to go through a neighbourhood that has suffered a spate of burglaries lately and any suggestion to the contrary is racist, not like I can convince you otherwise, but again, I stand by it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2017 19:56
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Ytlaya posted:Honest question - what exactly would you propose as an alternative? If I were LGBT and wanted to make a flag/banner indicating both LGBT and Jewish pride, a Star of David on a rainbow background is kind of the most obvious choice. There aren't many other symbols that are generally recognized by the public as being Jewish. There are many ways one can publicly express Jewish identity without waving around a flag that evokes the Israeli flag. Tallit, kippot, literally anything that doesn't entail positioning a big Star of David at the center of a striped flag.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:32
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