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Inferior Third Season posted:Displaced rural workers of the past two centuries could move into the cities or factory towns, where industrialization was producing tons of lovely, poorly paid, dangerous jobs for the low-skilled laborer. The young ones can sell their blood to fuel Peter Thiel's life extension technologies. The old ones can donate organs. Can't automate that!
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Jun 26, 2017 15:00
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But people are working on artificially grown organs? IIRC we already have artificially-grown bladders (admittedly the simplest example).
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Jun 26, 2017 15:08
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So what's the timeline on being machine gunned by 1%er deathbots? 50 years? 30 years?
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Jun 26, 2017 15:13
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Inferior Third Season posted:Displaced rural workers of the past two centuries could move into the cities or factory towns, where industrialization was producing tons of lovely, poorly paid, dangerous jobs for the low-skilled laborer. Er, you know a lot of them couldn't actually move into the cities or factory towns and get by though, right? They would go from doing reasonably well where they used to live to poverty, often for extended times. Especially for the 20s and 30s, even though WWII boosts in wages helped a good deal after they'd already been there. Of course the whole reason they moved out the rural area/small town in the first place is that they were already at the brink of poverty trying to get by there, if not already there. However, they can still move to the cities or suburbs now. It's where they've been moving out of rural areas and the small towns for going on 100 years after all. fishmech fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 15:14
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Just yesterday I had a realization about how much space is wasted in shopping centers- with respect to parking. Surface parking requirements/allowances are just loving insane. So much wasted loving space. It's so much unused space (that only maybe gets used around the holidays), that car dealerships store their inventory there.
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Jun 26, 2017 15:15
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Doctor Butts posted:Just yesterday I had a realization about how much space is wasted in shopping centers- with respect to parking. Holidays are/were the whole point of mega lots though. Retail NEEDS major shopping holidays, and they literally size the lots to accommodate the holiday rushes. If people can't park there, they won't shop there, or at least that's the method to the madness.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:19
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Cicero posted:But people are working on artificially grown organs? IIRC we already have artificially-grown bladders (admittedly the simplest example). I'm not worried. Elites will absolutely pay a premium to make sure there's a degree of authentic human suffering in their replacement organs. Maybe the tacky new money folks will go for the vat-grown schlock, but there will always be a market for Artisanal Harvested "Real Human!" organs. LogisticEarth posted:Holidays are/were the whole point of mega lots though. Retail NEEDS major shopping holidays, and they literally size the lots to accommodate the holiday rushes. If people can't park there, they won't shop there, or at least that's the method to the madness. I think that's exactly what he's saying? It's a very hosed up system that demands massive amounts of land, but only for a couple weeks out of the year. Almost like the system is designed to serve the needs of capital and not humans...
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Jun 26, 2017 17:33
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the black husserl posted:I think that's exactly what he's saying? It's a very hosed up system that demands massive amounts of land, but only for a couple weeks out of the year. Almost like the system is designed to serve the needs of capital and not humans... It wasn't entirely clear since he said he just realized it, and a lot of folks think huge parking lots are some excessive mistake rather than a calculated and designed feature. As to capital vs. humans... maybe a good narrative but it's far from that simple. Part of the reason we developed "the mall" was that we moved towards giant block zoning and sprawl. This was as much a problem of planning and government management as it was capital. The reason malls and big box stores need giant lots that are often empty is because they are a sort of "monocrop" that is tied to a single industry that is very seasonally variable, compounded with the whole transportation and regional planning clusterfuck that ties us to a car-centric economy. In other words, malls designers are partially responding to overall transportation and regional planning issues. And customer desire for easy parking.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:07
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One of the solutions to all these issues is promoting the same small businesses that the big businesses put out of business over the past 20 years by offering them special tax incentives and taxing the large corporations to hell and back to level the playing field.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:50
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Lightning Lord posted:So what's the timeline on being machine gunned by 1%er deathbots? 50 years? 30 years? depends on which country your in, -10 years?
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Jun 26, 2017 19:23
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And improving public transit
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Jun 26, 2017 19:23
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Jesus Horse posted:depends on which country your in, -10 years? Hellfires and JDAMs aren't machine guns.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:26
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:One of the solutions to all these issues is promoting the same small businesses that the big businesses put out of business over the past 20 years by offering them special tax incentives and taxing the large corporations to hell and back to level the playing field. This is legit a huge problem. States like Texas and most of its municipalities have been handing out billions in 'incentives' to corporations for years, especially massive property tax abatements. This further shifts the tax burden to residents via home property taxes, income taxes and sales taxes.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:42
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LogisticEarth posted:Holidays are/were the whole point of mega lots though. Retail NEEDS major shopping holidays, and they literally size the lots to accommodate the holiday rushes. If people can't park there, they won't shop there, or at least that's the method to the madness. the black husserl posted:I think that's exactly what he's saying? It's a very hosed up system that demands massive amounts of land, but only for a couple weeks out of the year. Almost like the system is designed to serve the needs of capital and not humans... They are only maybe used during the holidays, and only under exceptional circumstances. The region has shrunk in population, yet the excess of parking has been maintained throughout. The exceptional circumstances that govern whether or not the extra surface is used is dependent on whether or not there is a lot of snow that hasn't melted. Those extra lots are half-used as storage of mountains of snow, or completely cut off by the plows anyway when they start moving snow around. Even then: the capacity wasn't even justified back in the day. Getting rid of/'outlawing' this kind of excess parking and better zoning shrinks retail's footprint, so it is more walkable. For instance, for the larger strip malls, I bet you can cut about 75% of parking capacity. All the buildings could be closer together, and people would walk from store to store instead of driving to the next store that's technically two doors down. It's one of the reasons I miss older malls that have been built into communities instead of on the edge: the parking is already fairly constrained, and the whole mall: parking and mall itself are really walkable.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:09
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What's the lowest age you can administer an IQ test at? I want a child but I also want to make sure I can put them out of their misery if they're of average to below average intelligence like their dad is, because average intelligence is enough to get you SNAP benefits in our new world
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Jun 26, 2017 21:10
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Jun 26, 2017 21:50
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Lightning Lord posted:So what's the timeline on being machine gunned by 1%er deathbots? 50 years? 30 years? Doubtful, we'll all be starving to death due to food insecurity caused by ocean acidification long before death robots. Maybe 70-100 years.
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Jun 27, 2017 02:32
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the black husserl posted:
The fact that you're seeing a big rear end flat lot instead of a big parking garage also means that the land is worth so little, nobody would likely have built something more useful or wanted there. Doctor Butts posted:They are only maybe used during the holidays, and only under exceptional circumstances. The region has shrunk in population, yet the excess of parking has been maintained throughout. Tearing it up and replacing it with something beyond just rubble and bare earth would cost a lot of money though. Which nobody around likely has to spend, and even if they do they probably don't want to spend it on that. That's why abandoned/barely used structures in general don't get intentionally torn down that often.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:13
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This is great. You're great. Dogs are great.
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Jun 27, 2017 05:42
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Lampsacus posted:This thread has been mostly about Ameurexa but hey the above poster's point is amplified when you think of China and a lot of Asia. I feel it's going to get very rough. It already is to a large degree but you just aren't hearing about it. Same can be said for large swaths of Africa.
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Jun 27, 2017 06:28
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LogisticEarth posted:It wasn't entirely clear since he said he just realized it, and a lot of folks think huge parking lots are some excessive mistake rather than a calculated and designed feature. This. American cities being hosed up mutated slime molds compared to Europe or Asia in terms of density and transit is not a market failure, it's a regulatory and subsidy failure. We spent decades making those development patterns more profitable by subsidizing everything from massive detached home construction in the burbs to freeway construction. And then, when enough of the population was in those inherently unsustainable developments, they started voting themselves parking requirements. We hosed ourselves, and we can't even blame the baby boomers.
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Jun 27, 2017 06:56
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The Oldest Man posted:This. American cities being hosed up mutated slime molds compared to Europe or Asia in terms of density and transit is not a market failure, it's a regulatory and subsidy failure. We spent decades making those development patterns more profitable by subsidizing everything from massive detached home construction in the burbs to freeway construction. And then, when enough of the population was in those inherently unsustainable developments, they started voting themselves parking requirements. Keep in mind that the baby boomers were the ones that voted for that poo poo en-masse after their parents white fled the urban cores of this country for various reasons. They crystallized the trend.
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Jun 27, 2017 13:07
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The Oldest Man posted:This. American cities being hosed up mutated slime molds compared to Europe or Asia in terms of density and transit is not a market failure, it's a regulatory and subsidy failure. We spent decades making those development patterns more profitable by subsidizing everything from massive detached home construction in the burbs to freeway construction. And then, when enough of the population was in those inherently unsustainable developments, they started voting themselves parking requirements. You are giving way too much credit to European and Asian cities for being well designed and not sprawl, because tons of them are poorly designed and sprawl like crazy. Also "it's unsustainable" is bullshit. Things that have lasted close on 80 years can hardly be said to not sustain. The modern "good city" you so praise isn't much older than the suburb you claim can't work long term. Do not say "unsustainable" as if it means "aesthetics I don't like". The outer fringe of development is always lovely, but once you get a few miles in there tends to be an organic densification over the long term. Among other things this tends to turn pure bedroom communities or bedrooms plus strip malls into employment centers in their own right (the edge city process) which creates ever lessened dependence or even interaction with the old core. It's also perfectly practical to add transit in, that's what happened in the first place with cities. Very few were intentionally designed to support it, it had to be retrofitted in and it tended to bring its own densification. Most of those places will never get more than an ok bus system any time soon - but there's also plenty of small and medium European and Asian cities that basically just have an ok bus system for transit with maybe a passenger rail stop to go the nearest big city.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:30
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The Oldest Man posted:This. American cities being hosed up mutated slime molds compared to Europe or Asia in terms of density and transit is not a market failure, it's a regulatory and subsidy failure. We spent decades making those development patterns more profitable by subsidizing everything from massive detached home construction in the burbs to freeway construction. And then, when enough of the population was in those inherently unsustainable developments, they started voting themselves parking requirements. I'm so glad parking requirements exist, so many people move to my city into new "parking exempt" structures and then just leave their lovely Jeep on the street all week waiting for the weekend. And you'd better believe these people call themselves "car free"
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Jun 27, 2017 14:42
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call to action posted:I'm so glad parking requirements exist, so many people move to my city into new "parking exempt" structures and then just leave their lovely Jeep on the street all week waiting for the weekend. And you'd better believe these people call themselves "car free" I've lived in a few places where street parking was incredibly tight and so I've heard stuff like you just said plenty of times. STFU. Either you're angry because other people who live near you also want to use the street parking, or you're angry because you want to drive to the doorstep of another part of town without any hassle. The world doesn't need to be centered around your car needs. Get rid of your car and use transit and you'll find that you don't have this problem anymore.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:52
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Oh, I don't live in the city anymore, thanks for your concern though. I've heard your whining from a lot of "car free" folks who drive to the mountains every weekend, for sure - rich Denverites want cars, they just don't want dirty commuters from poorer areas being able to participate in the city. It's why you see apartment buildings perched on top of private garages and affordable parking that workers use getting torn out everywhere. I didn't use transit because it made my 30 minute commute into one that, at best, would take 1h20m. Most folks wouldn't take a transit mode that adds an extra 1h40m to their daily commute, at a minimum.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:15
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call to action posted:Oh, I don't live in the city anymore, thanks for your concern though. I've heard your whining from a lot of "car free" folks who drive to the mountains every weekend, for sure - rich Denverites want cars, they just don't want dirty commuters from poorer areas being able to participate in the city. It's why you see apartment buildings perched on top of private garages and affordable parking that workers use getting torn out everywhere. Your city should be built around my suburban car culture needs and you're an elitist rear end in a top hat who wants to exclude the poors if you disagree. I should not have to change in any way. I find most people who whine about parking would usually be fine if they were willing to walk ten minutes or take transit. .
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Jun 27, 2017 15:32
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xrunner posted:Your city should be built around my suburban car culture needs and you're an elitist rear end in a top hat who wants to exclude the poors if you disagree. I should not have to change in any way. Uhhh, you know you can't take transit that wasn't loving built, right? Denver's even one of those places where there never was transit iin most of the modern extent of the city, even in the heyday of private companies running it, because Denver was like a third of the population and much less than a third of the land back then. They're starting to really build a light rail system and better bus setup now, but it's far from comprehensive. And even when it exists at all, it tends to be hard for the poor to live near enough to it to be able to use it, especially again in a place like Denver that's currently expanding rapidly and has much higher rent/property prices than like 10 years ago.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:38
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xrunner posted:Your city should be built around my suburban car culture needs and you're an elitist rear end in a top hat who wants to exclude the poors if you disagree. I should not have to change in any way. I'm glad to hear that you are able to walk/use public transit in lieu of car commuting/travel, but you should realize that isn't really a practical option for many non-rich people who live in the western part of the US. Basically, I'm telling you that you need to check your public transit privilege. fishmech posted:You are giving way too much credit to European and Asian cities for being well designed and not sprawl, because tons of them are poorly designed and sprawl like crazy. I feel they mostly are better because they had the benefit of being built before the invention of the automobile. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 15:44
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fishmech posted:Uhhh, you know you can't take transit that wasn't loving built, right? Denver's even one of those places where there never was transit iin most of the modern extent of the city, even in the heyday of private companies running it, because Denver was like a third of the population and much less than a third of the land back then. They're starting to really build a light rail system and better bus setup now, but it's far from comprehensive. I've spent no time in Denver so I'll defer to you that it's an exceptionally lovely place transit wise. Still, the answer is to expand transit and non-auto options rather than making urban spaces more auto friendly. silence_kit posted:I'm glad to hear that you are able to walk/use public transit in lieu of car commuting/travel, but you should realize that isn't really a practical option for many non-rich people who live in the western part of the US. Basically, I'm telling you that you need to check your public transit privilege. Interestingly, it's not the poor who I hear complaining about parking. It's middle class and upper middle class suburbanites who think that the entire point of the urban core is for them to drive in on weekdays for work and the occasional basketball game or nice dinner. These people are completely capable of parking a little further out and taking transit for the last leg, or, quite often, just loving parking twenty minutes away and walking.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:00
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xrunner posted:Interestingly, it's not the poor who I hear complaining about parking. It's middle class and upper middle class suburbanites who think that the entire point of the urban core is for them to drive in on weekdays for work and the occasional basketball game or nice dinner. These people are completely capable of parking a little further out and taking transit for the last leg, or, quite often, just loving parking twenty minutes away and walking. Where do you live in the US?
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Jun 27, 2017 16:02
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silence_kit posted:Where do you live in the US? Portland, Oregon. But I've lived in quite a few other cities and with the exception of Florida and South Carolina, where the city cores are completely dominated by parking anyway, I've always been able to utilize bus transit.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:07
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xrunner posted:Interestingly, it's not the poor who I hear complaining about parking. It's middle class and upper middle class suburbanites who think that the entire point of the urban core is for them to drive in on weekdays for work and the occasional basketball game or nice dinner. These people are completely capable of parking a little further out and taking transit for the last leg, or, quite often, just loving parking twenty minutes away and walking. Except in many places transit doesn't loving work after the evening rush hour. And don't be an ablest shithead.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:08
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Solkanar512 posted:Except in many places transit doesn't loving work after the evening rush hour. And don't be an ablest shithead. You're hilarious. Calling out rear end in a top hat middle-class and better suburbanites for whining about parking is ablest.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:13
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xrunner posted:You're hilarious. Calling out rear end in a top hat middle-class and better suburbanites for whining about parking is ablest. No, telling everyone that they need to walk for 20 minutes where there might not even be sidewalks is ablest.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:16
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Solkanar512 posted:No, telling everyone that they need to walk for 20 minutes where there might not even be sidewalks is ablest. Unless the ADA and handicap spaces are no longer a thing it isn't. Are you so unbelievably fat that a mile walk is life threatening?
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Jun 27, 2017 16:18
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Why not provide a free-market solution to the parking problem by increasing the cost of parking until there's always some availability out of the present on-street spaces?
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Jun 27, 2017 16:21
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xrunner posted:I've spent no time in Denver so I'll defer to you that it's an exceptionally lovely place transit wise. Still, the answer is to expand transit and non-auto options rather than making urban spaces more auto friendly. Someone adding an hour+ to their commute by taking transit, which someone itt said is their case, is pretty common and it's completely unreasonable to expect people to do that. If they have a perfectly servicable vehicle they should be able to use it. Urban planning needs to consider all transit options, not just swing violently the other way and saying DEATH TO ALL CARS after decades of neglecting trains, buses, subways, etc. And even in some cities, the transit might suck. I used to take the DC metro a total of 5 stops and after the millionth delay where I missed a meeting I discovered it was both faster and cheaper to just drive. And I'm someone who generally really likes/supports good public transit, but the transit here was in such bad shape that it was causing a negative impact. Imagine if someone didn't have ideological reasons to want transit to succeed. But the DC metro is an entirely other topic which I can bitch about endlessly because it is an absolute loving disaster and a textbook case of why you need cooperation and coordination between management, labor and funding sources. axeil fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 16:21
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PT6A posted:Why not provide a free-market solution to the parking problem by increasing the cost of parking until there's always some availability out of the present on-street spaces? If the city isn't up to it maybe they can sell a 99 year lease to a private company for 1 year's revenue!
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Jun 27, 2017 16:23
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axeil posted:Someone adding an hour+ to their commute by taking transit, which someone itt said is their case, is pretty common. If they have a perfectly servicable vehicle they should be able to use it. Urban planning needs to consider all transit options, not just swing violently the other way and saying DEATH TO ALL CARS after decades of neglecting trains, buses, subways, etc. It's quite possible to park in an area with greater parking availability and take transit for the last few miles. There is no reason most people need to park at exactly the place where they are going. Solkanar512 posted:No, telling everyone that they need to walk for 20 minutes where there might not even be sidewalks is ablest. The places where there are parking crunches and that haven't built sidewalks aren't really the places we're talking about, though. We're talking about the dense urban core. Read: call to action posted:I'm so glad parking requirements exist, so many people move to my city into new "parking exempt" structures and then just leave their lovely Jeep on the street all week waiting for the weekend. And you'd better believe these people call themselves "car free"
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Jun 27, 2017 16:27
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