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Grixis Shadow plays a 6 drop or at least, a card with a cmc of 6
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Jun 26, 2017 16:23
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suicidesteve posted:Lile all the ones that get played now, such as Good point actually. I still think it would polarize the metagame around Jace though. It seems like the best way to beat Jace (if you're not playing your own) would be to effectively win by turn 3.
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Jun 26, 2017 16:28
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Elyv posted:Grixis Shadow plays a 6 drop i play cards with CMC 5 and 7 all the time in legacy. surely modern can afford some four-drops
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Jun 26, 2017 16:39
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Bonus posted:Good point actually. I still think it would polarize the metagame around Jace though. It seems like the best way to beat Jace (if you're not playing your own) would be to effectively win by turn 3. So business as usual except you're finally have an incentivize to play a deck that tries to get to turn 5.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:02
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suicidesteve posted:Lile all the ones that get played now, such as Scapeshift TKS Collected Company Past in Flames Cryptic
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Jun 26, 2017 17:03
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GoutPatrol posted:Scapeshift So a 2-3 mana creature, 2 spells that end the game on resolution, a spell nobody plays, and a 2-for-1 instant speed spell in a deck with mana dorks. I'm really not seeing your point here; Jace is really bad against every one of those cards.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:27
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Bonus posted:Good point actually. I still think it would polarize the metagame around Jace though. It seems like the best way to beat Jace (if you're not playing your own) would be to effectively win by turn 3. suicidesteve posted:So business as usual except you're finally have an incentivize to play a deck that tries to get to turn 5.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:06
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eSporks posted:I was gonna say what steve said. Hopefully without the typo.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:08
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I'd be down to try Jace in Modern. The format is so aggressive that a low-impact four mana spell is already mostly unplayable, especially since you don't have free countermagic to protect him, and control really needs a payoff card for living to lategame better than activating Celestial Colonnade. EDIT: I still think the real problem with control is that answers are typically situational and/or cost more mana than the threats they respond to, which means it's easy to find yourself holding up Path vs Scapeshift or just get run over because the other deck went Thoughtsieze > Thoughtsieze + Death's Shadow. Having a Brainstorm effect would at least help unload dead cards in the wrong matchups but a four mana spell isn't going to solve the second problem. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 19:38
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Cawblade or Esper Cawblade might actually match up fairly well against Death's Shadow. Lots of guys to chump/protect your Jace and you get the best sweeper in the game if all else fails. I still wouldn't want Jace unbanned though.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:58
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They can unban Jace when I have a playset of them.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:15
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If Jace was unbanned no other midrange deck could compete unless they had Jace. Isn't the complaint against Death's Shadow for the sake of diversity? Jace would be even worseStar Man posted:They can unban Jace when I have a playset of them.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:15
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Star Man posted:They can unban Jace when I have a playset of them. I just got a playset, and I am in favor of the unbanning.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:16
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myDad posted:If Jace was unbanned no other midrange deck could compete unless they had Jace. Isn't the complaint against Death's Shadow for the sake of diversity? Jace would be even worse There are plenty of generic midrange value cards that will haze you for tapping out for a Jace in a format where countermagic costs mana.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:33
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Voyager I posted:There are plenty of generic midrange value cards that will haze you for tapping out for a Jace in a format where countermagic costs mana. Which is why no one's going to be tapping out on turn 4 to play a Jace, they just wait until turn 6 when they can hold up a Mana Leak, Remand, Spell Pierce....
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Jun 26, 2017 20:39
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Which is why no one's going to be tapping out on turn 4 to play a Jace, they just wait until turn 6 when they can hold up a Mana Leak, Remand, Spell Pierce.... The whole point of adding him back to the format was to give control decks an actual payoff for extending the game that long, and we're not talking about some generic midrange deck with a value Jace. Also I'm not sure holding up T6 Mana Leak is going to work out the way you want it to in a format defined by 1-2 mana spells. EDIT: in general, different formats are different environments that affect how cards perform beyond their individual power level. Delver and Mentor are both Legacy powerhouses that see no play at all in Modern because the support for them isn't there, and I suspect Jace is going to have a similar problem just by virtue of being a 4-mana spell with little immediate impact in the fastest format. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 20:43
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:swans of bryn argoll This guy gets it.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:55
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Voyager I posted:There are plenty of generic midrange value cards that will haze you for tapping out for a Jace in a format where countermagic costs mana. It's a bit dated, but I think it'd be too powerful going by this contributor's tests: http://modernnexus.com/testing-mind-sculptor-data/ Imo it'd be stronger in a UB shell due to the strength of IoK/Thoughseize, Push, Tasigur, and Angler, but if you can trust the data it would have a significant impact on the meta-game due to turning a lot of 50/50 or worse matchups into favorable ones.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:56
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myDad posted:It's a bit dated, but I think it'd be too powerful going by this contributor's tests: http://modernnexus.com/testing-mind-sculptor-data/ It would be BUG all day. There's no reason not to have ramp and goyf.
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Jun 26, 2017 21:08
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Which is why no one's going to be tapping out on turn 4 to play a Jace, they just wait until turn 6 when they can hold up a Mana Leak, Remand, Spell Pierce.... Ah, that crucial turn in modern, turn 6.
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Jun 26, 2017 21:15
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myDad posted:It's a bit dated, but I think it'd be too powerful going by this contributor's tests: http://modernnexus.com/testing-mind-sculptor-data/ And still just getting its poo poo pushed in by Eldrazi Aggro, Burn, and Affinity.
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Jun 26, 2017 21:16
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Errant Gin Monks posted:It would be BUG all day. There's no reason not to have ramp and goyf. Modern is in a brave new world where T2 Goyf does not necessarily control the ground anymore and your mana dorks will not be Deathrite Shaman, so I'm not as convinced on the green splash. I could see him working in a midrange deck that protected him with creatures rather than Verdicts, though. EDIT: amazingly, Modern has also ended up getting faster since Probe was banned, and the current metagame doesn't resemble the one he tested against.
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Jun 26, 2017 21:20
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I feel like jtms slots in pretty naturally to Grixis Shadow
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Jun 26, 2017 21:22
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EvilBeard posted:And still just getting its poo poo pushed in by Eldrazi Aggro, Burn, and Affinity. The tests put Jace version up to 52% against Bant Eldrazi & 70% against Affinity. JtMS +2 is very strong against Burn and takes 2 burn spells to kill after. I still think it would be gas for Grixis Shadow. Once it's gotten the point where one would flashback Kommand to grind out instead JtMS could drop for Brainstorm, Fateseal, or bounce an opponent's Angler for the mirror. The meta has certainly changed, but it still seems very unlikely to be unbanned, and I pray Death's Shadow isn't banned either.
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Jun 26, 2017 21:26
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Voyager I posted:EDIT: amazingly, Modern has also ended up getting faster since Probe was banned, and the current metagame doesn't resemble the one he tested against. The prevalence of IoK & Thoughtseize slowed the format down... do you remember playing against Infect or Jeskai Ascendancy?
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Jun 26, 2017 21:29
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myDad posted:The tests put Jace version up to 52% against Bant Eldrazi & 70% against Affinity. JtMS +2 is very strong against Burn and takes 2 burn spells to kill after. Yes he would be an easy inclusion in grixis are a BUG DS build could work around him easily as well.
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Jun 26, 2017 21:57
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Yes he would be an easy inclusion in grixis are a BUG DS build could work around him easily as well. I didn't think modern would be the place for BUG considering the dissonance between Delve creatures & Tarmogoyf, but you could make a control deck with Goyf as your fatty and Snapcaster+Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse just sounds dirty
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Jun 26, 2017 22:07
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Yes he would be an easy inclusion in grixis are a BUG DS build could work around him easily as well. myDad posted:I didn't think modern would be the place for BUG considering the dissonance between Delve creatures & Tarmogoyf, but you could make a control deck with Goyf as your fatty and Snapcaster+Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse just sounds dirty I've seen one or two BUG lists pop up in recent months, this list Top-16'd a GP or something in the spring. Kinda want to build it since all I'd need are a few more Goyfs. Drop the Delvers and maybe the Grim Flayers for Pulse and extra countermagic?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:20
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C-Euro posted:I've seen one or two BUG lists pop up in recent months, this list Top-16'd a GP or something in the spring. Kinda want to build it since all I'd need are a few more Goyfs. Drop the Delvers and maybe the Grim Flayers for Pulse and extra countermagic? There's a guy at one of my lgs that plays something similar. He runs architects of will to get the artifact in the gy for flayer and goyf and also runs hooting mandrils. Regularly goes 3-1 or 4-0.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:30
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myDad posted:I didn't think modern would be the place for BUG considering the dissonance between Delve creatures & Tarmogoyf, but you could make a control deck with Goyf as your fatty and Snapcaster+Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse just sounds dirty I'm wondering if the new walking crucible could make for a nice ghost quarter lock in a bug deck
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Jun 26, 2017 23:32
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Can we splash white so that Knight of the Reliquary can play too? Or would it just be Tireless Tracker?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:44
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suicidesteve posted:So a 2-3 mana creature, 2 spells that end the game on resolution, a spell nobody plays, and a 2-for-1 instant speed spell in a deck with mana dorks. I'm really not seeing your point here; Jace is really bad against every one of those cards. Cards that win games are cast on turn 4, like Jace
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Jun 27, 2017 00:10
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Mef989 posted:There's a guy at one of my lgs that plays something similar. He runs architects of will to get the artifact in the gy for flayer and goyf and also runs hooting mandrils. Regularly goes 3-1 or 4-0. There was a guy at my LGS running a list pretty similar to what I posted, he had a couple of Simic Charm in there that he said were extremely clutch. Would be interested to know about your guy's list if it has anything else interesting. Star Man posted:Can we splash white so that Knight of the Reliquary can play too? Or would it just be Tireless Tracker? Monks and I were talking a couple pages ago about Abzan control lists with an Eldritch Evolution package, that could work in those colors.
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Jun 27, 2017 00:11
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C-Euro posted:I've seen one or two BUG lists pop up in recent months, this list Top-16'd a GP or something in the spring. Kinda want to build it since all I'd need are a few more Goyfs. Drop the Delvers and maybe the Grim Flayers for Pulse and extra countermagic? Shadow of Doubt is spicy. Guy at my LGS brought BUG Delirium the other week but I think he needed more control elements cuz I drew with him post-board on Ad Nauseam (Death's Shadow secret tech  ) and watched him draw 2 more games before it was over. Lol if he had Jace he likely would have won a couple of those...
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Jun 27, 2017 00:25
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myDad posted:post-board on Ad Nauseam (Death's Shadow secret tech that's hot. Sylvan Library was so good in my legay death's shadow deck that i think i want two
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Jun 27, 2017 02:18
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:that's hot. Sylvan Library was so good in my legay death's shadow deck that i think i want two The best part of the top ban is that death's shadow is now somehow playable in legacy too.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:02
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C-Euro posted:There was a guy at my LGS running a list pretty similar to what I posted, he had a couple of Simic Charm in there that he said were extremely clutch. Would be interested to know about your guy's list if it has anything else interesting. I'll ask next time I'm at that shop. I think that was about it though for his personal tech, otherwise I think it's just your typical BUG cards. He's played delver lists as long as I've known him and fatal push was the card that finally pushed BUG over the top to being viable for him.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:46
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Fine Jace can stay gone Instead free Stoneforge
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Jun 27, 2017 06:15
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TheKingofSprings posted:Fine Jace can stay gone Unban jitte so I can play it as a 4 of in bogles!
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Jun 27, 2017 06:58
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TheKingofSprings posted:Fine Jace can stay gone They can unban Stoneforge Mystic after I get my playset first.
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Jun 27, 2017 07:03
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