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Raskolnikov38 posted:hell the lost tax revenue from prop 13 alone is probably a trillion or two That's probably the best shot for getting rid of that thing if so.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:51
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Can't Prop 13 only be amended by ballot initiative though?
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Jun 26, 2017 20:12
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lol just got an email of this video by eric bauman in which he calls for universal health care..... at the federal level only https://www.facebook.com/cadems/videos/10154695011503317/
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Jun 26, 2017 20:27
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Duckbag posted:Can't Prop 13 only be amended by ballot initiative though? We can kill it or modify it with a super majority, which we have. There's really no excuse for these loving people anymore.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:52
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lol just got an email of this video by eric bauman in which he calls for universal health care..... at the federal level only burn down the california dem party imo
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Jun 26, 2017 21:03
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I saw a comment somewhere about how Trump might cut federal funding if Cali passes a single payer act. Any merit to that you think?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:46
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I think he says a lot of stuff.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:50
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Lightning Lord posted:I saw a comment somewhere about how Trump might cut federal funding if Cali passes a single payer act. Any merit to that you think? The AHCA is already gonna cut funding massively, regardless of extra Trump shenanigans, but they could theoretically decline to give CA an exception to use their (remaining) Medicaid funding as a block grant to help fund a single payer program
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Jun 26, 2017 23:51
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Lightning Lord posted:I saw a comment somewhere about how Trump might cut federal funding if Cali passes a single payer act. Any merit to that you think? The very Supreme Court ruling that originally upheld the ACA also set a precedent regarding cutting off funding because a state did a thing you didn't like. Which is that if it's going to be a significant part of the state's budget, that's a no-no.
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Jun 27, 2017 00:18
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Instant Sunrise posted:The very Supreme Court ruling that originally upheld the ACA also set a precedent regarding cutting off funding because a state did a thing you didn't like. Different regulatory framework. It doesn't withhold funding but change the method of the funding. You still end up with the same dollars either route. It's really up to the Sec. of HHS to grant a waiver. Under Obama, a waiver could be granted if the same number of people would be covered. Under Price, HHS seems to be down with granting waivers as long as states use the block grants to gently caress the poor.
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Jun 27, 2017 00:40
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Cup Runneth Over posted:What a loving liar. The only reason he didn't kill the bill is that Californians would have his head on a goddamn silver platter. We're not going to get poo poo. Motherfucker. So, aside from angrily calling my state representative & senator to yell at them, what else can be done to put some pressure on the bastards?
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Jun 27, 2017 04:10
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Fly Molo posted:Motherfucker. So, aside from angrily calling my state representative & senator to yell at them, what else can be done to put some pressure on the bastards? if you live in LA start a recall petition on rendon
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Jun 27, 2017 04:12
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You people seemed to not have learnt anything from the Vermont Debacle.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:13
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Yeah, harass your assembly members, and if you live in Rendon's district push for a recall or support a primary challenger or something I guess. Make Rendon miserable. Heck, make them all miserable. Make them afraid for their seats. Promise to make 2018 a reckoning for sitting CA Dems if they keep this bullshit up; their job is to help and serve us, and if they're not going to do those things in the face of Republicans trying to kill us (literally, in the case of the AHCA), then they can give up their seats for people who will.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:28
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I called him today and let them know I'll be calling every day until he brings the bill back Edit: I have a piece of poo poo R assembly member but I'll be calling as well, as pointless as it is
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Jun 27, 2017 04:32
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apropos to nothing posted:The state of California has about $1.3 trillion in state and local debt, so it seems as though making sure government programs are fully costed isn't as much of a priority as they might make it out to be. I'm not arguing for a balanced budget, nor am I saying that making sure the legislation was costed appropriately isn't important. Just trying to point out the fact that excuses like there's no money or we'd have to raise taxes or cut this are always the excuses used to halt and destroy working class political concessions. apropos to nothing posted:In my own town (not California) we have property developers who have received multi-million dollar property tax rebates while the city poor-mouths that we don't have the funds to provide adequate housing for our homeless population.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:45
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:You people seemed to not have learnt anything from the Vermont Debacle. Oh gid, not this poo poo again. California isn't Vermont. Also, shut up.
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Jun 27, 2017 05:59
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Roland Jones posted:Yeah, harass your assembly members, and if you live in Rendon's district push for a recall or support a primary challenger or something I guess. Make Rendon miserable. Heck, make them all miserable. Make them afraid for their seats. Promise to make 2018 a reckoning for sitting CA Dems if they keep this bullshit up; their job is to help and serve us, and if they're not going to do those things in the face of Republicans trying to kill us (literally, in the case of the AHCA), then they can give up their seats for people who will. Yeah, I plan on calling Rendon, my assembly member, and my senator, and telling all three of them I'll vote Republican just to spite their dumb asses unless this bill gets a vote. (lol I'm not that dumb/self-destructive, but it never hurts to threaten) gently caress those dumb assholes. And they wonder why the Democrats are losing left and right.
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Jun 27, 2017 05:59
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Duckbag posted:Oh gid, not this poo poo again. California isn't Vermont. Don't respond to them, they're an MIGF rereg or something. Fly Molo posted:Yeah, I plan on calling Rendon, my assembly member, and my senator, and telling all three of them I'll vote Republican just to spite their dumb asses unless this bill gets a vote. (lol I'm not that dumb/self-destructive, but it never hurts to threaten) Who's your senator? They already passed it, and most Dem senators voted for it, though not all. The other two are fair game though, though yeah, they're better than a Republican (probably; Glazer is debatable), so replacing them with another, better Democrat is preferable. Maybe promise to support any primary candidate they get over saying "I'll vote Republican". It's a more realistic bluff, and doesn't play into the stereotypes about single payer supports and other progressives.
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Jun 27, 2017 08:30
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Roland Jones posted:Who's your senator? They already passed it, and most Dem senators voted for it, though not all. The other two are fair game though, though yeah, they're better than a Republican (probably; Glazer is debatable), so replacing them with another, better Democrat is preferable. Maybe promise to support any primary candidate they get over saying "I'll vote Republican". It's a more realistic bluff, and doesn't play into the stereotypes about single payer supports and other progressives. Fair point.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:37
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Duckbag posted:Oh gid, not this poo poo again. California isn't Vermont. No it's not , it has even higher taxes and is even more expensive to live in than Vermont.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:39
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Vermont has a small population of a lot of old people, so the math didn't work out. California is a massive state with a diverse population. So shut up.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:44
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"Trying this 'health insurance' thing again?! Didn't you learn anything from Vermont? It's just the healthy paying for the sick!" - Paul Ryan, probably
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Jun 27, 2017 15:54
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:No it's not , it has even higher taxes and is even more expensive to live in than Vermont.  yes that really is the takeaway you clever child
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Jun 27, 2017 19:19
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Lmao Rendon's been getting a lot of calls, he setup a switchboard so they can take messages about sb562 specifically instead of taking calls
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Jun 27, 2017 20:51
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Lemming posted:Lmao Rendon's been getting a lot of calls, he setup a switchboard so they can take messages about sb562 specifically instead of taking calls Oh wow they really did; I just called myself to confirm it, and yep, third option the automated response gives you is specifically for comments about SB-562. I guess he really, really wants to ignore this. So, if you're planning on calling him about it, don't let him; pick one of the other options, and maybe call them out on this while you're at it.
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Jun 27, 2017 20:59
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Duckbag posted:Oh gid, not this poo poo again. California isn't Vermont. Mozi posted:Vermont has a small population of a lot of old people, so the math didn't work out. California is a massive state with a diverse population.
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Jun 27, 2017 21:58
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Dead Reckoning posted:In what way is California different that will allow it to effectively control costs? We've been over this. Bargaining power and economy of scale, not to mention an actual track record of managing huge public services. If you can't even understand the absurdity of comparing one of the world's biggest economies to a rural state with 1/70th its population, there's not really much point in having this discussion.
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Jun 28, 2017 00:42
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Dead Reckoning posted:No one actually likes or wants the chronically homeless. Fortunately we can make people not homeless anymore simply by giving them homes.
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Jun 28, 2017 04:00
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Duckbag posted:We've been over this. Bargaining power and economy of scale, not to mention an actual track record of managing huge public services. If you can't even understand the absurdity of comparing one of the world's biggest economies to a rural state with 1/70th its population, there's not really much point in having this discussion. You're handwaiving, because neither you nor anyone else can explain how these economies of scale can be achieved while providing the same level of care that Californians with private insurance have now. Remember Prop 61 last year? Remember how every sober analysis concluded that California couldn't actually compel pharmaceutical companies to pay lower rates? What exactly has changed since then?
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Jun 28, 2017 05:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:You're handwaiving, because neither you nor anyone else can explain how these economies of scale can be achieved while providing the same level of care that Californians with private insurance have now. Remember Prop 61 last year? Remember how every sober analysis concluded that California couldn't actually compel pharmaceutical companies to pay lower rates? What exactly has changed since then? care to cite those analyses while we're on the topic of hand-waving? also, if you think ca and vt are the same thing you might not comprehend the concept of economies of scale
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Jun 28, 2017 06:02
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its hilarious that a state with 4x the population than the VA sees is apparently going to have less negotiating power than them
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Jun 28, 2017 06:03
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Dead Reckoning is the physical incarnation of the belief the status quo is perfect and must be defended from progress at every turn
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Jun 28, 2017 06:29
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California has a larger population than Canada. If they can do it, so can we. Yes, we have some very real limitations due to being a state rather than a sovereign country, but we certainly don't lack bargaining power.
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Jun 28, 2017 07:11
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Walka Blocka Shame posted:California has a larger population than Canada. If they can do it, so can we. Yes, we have some very real limitations due to being a state rather than a sovereign country, but we certainly don't lack bargaining power. If that shithole Texas can dictate textbook contents Cali should be able to strongarm health costs. 
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Jun 28, 2017 07:20
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FilthyImp posted:If that shithole Texas can dictate textbook contents Cali should be able to strongarm health costs. Agreed, though I suspect that pharma and the healthcare industry as a whole would do their best to make us a cautionary tale. They'd probably be willing to accept dramatic losses in the short term to ensure that single payer went belly up and the capital class would support them in that endeavor. One thing that I've gained an appreciation for lately is how insanely dirty the establishment fights in order to maintain the status quo.
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Jun 28, 2017 07:34
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Walka Blocka Shame posted:Agreed, though I suspect that pharma and the healthcare industry as a whole would do their best to make us a cautionary tale. They'd probably be willing to accept dramatic losses in the short term to ensure that single payer went belly up and the capital class would support them in that endeavor. One thing that I've gained an appreciation for lately is how insanely dirty the establishment fights in order to maintain the status quo. My work had a grand opening of a new site and had all the bigwigs visit, and our CEO probably spent more time talking to anyone who would listen about the evils of single-payer than anything we actually did for the company.
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Jun 28, 2017 08:43
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stone cold posted:care to cite those analyses while we're on the topic of hand-waving? Sure. Here's the short but rather flamboyant Pete Rates analysis, and the more sober report from the Office of the Legislative Analyst. Takeaway from the Legislative Analyst: quote:Drug Manufacturers Might Decline to Offer Lowest VA Prices to the State for Some Drugs. stone cold posted:also, if you think ca and vt are the same thing you might not comprehend the concept of economies of scale Raskolnikov38 posted:its hilarious that a state with 4x the population than the VA sees is apparently going to have less negotiating power than them The VA isn't a great example, since it serves a homogeneous population of older, mostly male veterans, who have passed a military physical that weeds out a whole slew of pre-existing conditions. This allows them to only cover certain medications. (They have a process for deviating from their formulary, but the point is that it is the exception, rather than the rule.) California can't practically follow the VA's model, both because the state population is far more heterogeneous, and because the promise of single payer for all is that there won't be a screening that weeds out people with preexisting conditions. Even assuming that it was practical for the state to establish a formulary, it would mean that the promise to maintain the same level of care for people who currently have health insurance would be a lie: some percentage of Californians would no longer have access to the drugs that their doctors had recommended for them, instead having to take whatever the state deemed to be an adequate substitute, or nothing. Oh, and even with single payer, the State government still won't be negotiating on behalf of all Californians, since Medicare and the VA, etc. will still exist. Lemming posted:Dead Reckoning is the physical incarnation of the belief the status quo is perfect and must be defended from progress at every turn Walka Blocka Shame posted:California has a larger population than Canada. If they can do it, so can we. Yes, we have some very real limitations due to being a state rather than a sovereign country, but we certainly don't lack bargaining power.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:44
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If you're Merck, are you really going to let a customer with 38 million patients walk away from the table to switch to a different medication that Phizer offers just because you're too intractable about prices? Yeah the amount per patient is in all likelihood going to be lower, but you're still dealing with losing 40 million customers at once.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:03
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Instant Sunrise posted:If you're Merck, are you really going to let a customer with 38 million patients walk away from the table to switch to a different medication that Phizer offers just because you're too intractable about prices? If I think I can bleed them for more cash, then yes I do.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:07
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