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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Let me play devil's advocate here -- how do you respond to what will absolutely be the conservative talking point about the millions of people who will lose coverage based on the CBO report below: They're being priced out.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:13
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Let me play devil's advocate here -- how do you respond to what will absolutely be the conservative talking point about the millions of people who will lose coverage based on the CBO report below: People opting out is bad because in general only sick people will maintain insurance. Without relatively healthy people to spread the risk, premiums will skyrocket, nobody will be able to afford insurance, and the market will collapse.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:13
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:The conservative talking point being, 15 million people is big and scary number, but if it's their choice, what's the problem? Trumpcare isn't taking away healthcare, it's people choosing to opt out. Are you looking for a political answer or an ideological one? The political answer is that we will shout them down with big scary doomsday campaign ads. Let them have the burden of a complicated explanation, for once we actually have the simple sound bite answer this time.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:13
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Hellblazer187 posted:If healthy people leave the exchanges, then premiums go way up. Also: people don't choose to deny themselves health coverage unless they have no other recourse.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:14
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Let me play devil's advocate here -- how do you respond to what will absolutely be the conservative talking point about the millions of people who will lose coverage based on the CBO report below: The penalty for not having insurance is "you go bankrupt and/or you die" for many serious diseases though. And they don't have to go bankrupt or die. And it's not their own fault for getting cancer or whatever other major life-changing disease they get. e: for a more personal story, my wife has had a serious immune disease for basically her entire life and we require expensive medications to make her life livable (and even then, still miserable a lot). Our health plan isn't great these days but I earn enough to make it not as big of a deal. But without insurance? We'd be bankrupt in a few months. And I have a Health Savings Account that I've been chucking money into for the past 5 years or so at the maximum contribution per year. But if this bill prices my employer out of making it worthwhile to offer insurance, and I can't get reasonable insurance on the individual market, we're turbo hosed. No Safe Word fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 23:14
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Let me play devil's advocate here -- how do you respond to what will absolutely be the conservative talking point about the millions of people who will lose coverage based on the CBO report below: the new mandate replacement takes effect in 2019 and the number of uninsured goes up, not down
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Jun 26, 2017 23:14
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Disabled protesters at Todd Young's office here in Indy apparently being manhandled and one headed to the hospital.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:16
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Eltoasto posted:Disabled protesters at Todd Young's office here in Indy apparently being manhandled and one headed to the hospital. https://twitter.com/JStein_Vox/status/879427801950162945
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Jun 26, 2017 23:16
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https://twitter.com/sltrib/status/879459855609864192 Bark Beetles surviving the winter since its too warm to kill them off leading to giant wildfires, no it is the work of those drat hippies  That and the fire was started like most, because of a idiotic rancher trying to burn away weeds.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:17
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Badass I wonder if these republicans realize that getting their pinkerton skull crackers to beat up protesters looks pretty... hm... fashy?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:18
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evilweasel posted:the new mandate replacement takes effect in 2019 and the number of uninsured goes up, not down New mandate replacement...are you referring to the six month delay after a lapse in coverage?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:18
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:New mandate replacement...are you referring to the six month delay after a lapse in coverage? Yes. That replaces the mandate as the thing intended to make sure healthy people maintain coverage.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:19
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evilweasel posted:Yes. That replaces the mandate as the thing intended to make sure healthy people maintain coverage. If you don't want insurance then you can't have insurance for 6 months?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:20
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I dread the day that some disabled protestor gets some life endangering injury after being manhandled in the Capitol and the sort of poo poo the right says to blame it all on him. And that night's Sean Hannity where he does a 20 minute segment on Kathy Griffin and the violence of the left.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:21
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https://twitter.com/byrdinator/status/879452799683133443 fun reminder that ted cruz does this frequently.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:21
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Is anyone in the White House press corp pushing back against this no camera policy beyond posting pictures of their socks?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:22
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Skippy Granola posted:If you don't want insurance then you can't have insurance for 6 months? If you don't have insurance for ~2 months in the previous year, you can't get insurance for 6 months. It's loving mystifying logic.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:22
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Skippy Granola posted:If you don't want insurance then you can't have insurance for 6 months? Yes, the "Ha ha you helped crash the market by letting your insurance lapse because it was too expensive when you were healthy and then went bankrupt after an unexpected illness you couldn't wait 6 months to treat" amendment. A winner, that one.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:23
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FizFashizzle posted:https://twitter.com/byrdinator/status/879452799683133443 Its a very dramatic scene ending in the amazing historical biopic he's living in his own head.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:23
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:Is anyone in the White House press corp pushing back against this no camera policy beyond posting pictures of their socks? CNN sent a courtroom sketch artist to the Friday briefing
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Jun 26, 2017 23:23
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Skippy Granola posted:If you don't want insurance then you can't have insurance for 6 months? The thought behind the mandate is, according to a CNN reporter I saw this afternoon, is that the new mandate is designed to prevent people from selectively purchasing healthcare whenever it's convenient to them, as in gaming the system to only getting coverage when you know when you're getting sick or need surgery/hospitalization. e: aka the conservative vision of moochers
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Jun 26, 2017 23:23
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No Safe Word posted:If you don't have insurance for ~2 months in the previous year, you can't get insurance for 6 months. The logic is the same as the mandate and you need something that forces healthy people to get insurance to make pre-existing condition coverage work. It's just much, much harsher than the mandate, and they went with it because they couldn't use a mandate as they'd spent 8 years bashing it. My guess is it's harsher as a (vain) attempt to make the CBO score look better.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:23
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No Safe Word posted:If you don't have insurance for ~2 months in the previous year, you can't get insurance for 6 months. Is it typical for Americans to go uninsured and then try to get insurance once they get sick or injured?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:24
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Pander posted:Yes, the "Ha ha you helped crash the market by letting your insurance lapse because it was too expensive when you were healthy and then went bankrupt after an unexpected illness you couldn't wait 6 months to treat" amendment. Isn't it also kinda the "never ever try and get better insurance or a better job and risk having a lapse in your insurance because then you're super hosed" amendment?
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Jun 26, 2017 23:24
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No Safe Word posted:If you don't have insurance for ~2 months in the previous year, you can't get insurance for 6 months. It's your fault if anything bad happens to you. By the way, I'm going to ensure bad things happen to you.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:24
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Hey, I might have missed this being posted, but, the reason why Republicans are pushing the AHCA so hard? Their donors are demanding it and refusing to pay unless they do.quote:Donors to GOP: No cash until action on health care, taxes There's even more in the article, but that's the basic idea. Donors are saying "give us our tax cuts or else ". Which seems like a good explanation as to why they're still gunning for it even after most of their own voters have turned on the bill and all and passing it seems like electoral suicide.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:25
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Skippy Granola posted:Is it typical for Americans to go uninsured and then try to get insurance once they get sick or injured? No, pre-ACA, once you were sick, it was almost impossible to get insurance After the ACA, if you didn't have coverage, you had to pay a fee to cover your contribution to the system With AHCA, we would almost certainly be back to not being able to get insurance, except now you would have to wait 6 months to get rejected
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Jun 26, 2017 23:25
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Skippy Granola posted:Is it typical for Americans to go uninsured and then try to get insurance once they get sick or injured? It wouldn't have ever been possible before the passage of the ACA. I haven't been aware of the changes since the ACA went into effect, but I'd imagine it's a fractionally small frequency.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:26
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McCain's full statement on the bill.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:27
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The Glumslinger posted:No, pre-ACA, once you were sick, it was almost impossible to get insurance Premiums probably would have been lower if the mandate hadn't been so weak.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:27
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There's no way they pass this thing. I mean it would destroy the party in the long term. but no loving way.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:27
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evilweasel posted:Premiums probably would have been lower if the mandate hadn't been so weak. that would of also forced a lot more people who couldn't afford it to buy health insurance from private companies, to do so. It's not like the subsidies make health insurance cheap or affordable, just less expensive.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:29
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Skippy Granola posted:Is it typical for Americans to go uninsured and then try to get insurance once they get sick or injured? When I first moved to the US from socialist Canada I was astounded at the number of acquaintances and co-workers who happily admitted to not having health insurance. Just walking and driving around without any kind of health insurance like it was normal and not insane. edit: This was before the ACA passed of course. I never asked what their plan was if they got sick and needed treatment.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:29
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evilweasel posted:The logic is the same as the mandate and you need something that forces healthy people to get insurance to make pre-existing condition coverage work. It's just much, much harsher than the mandate, and they went with it because they couldn't use a mandate as they'd spent 8 years bashing it. My guess is it's harsher as a (vain) attempt to make the CBO score look better. It's the same intent, but a significantly shittier mechanism. Yes, you're penalized in a financial way by the individual mandate, but if you decide you want to start paying into the insurance market you can do so immediately. That helps everyone, though probably it benefits the new participant more because they're likely only (re-)starting coverage because of a need (or an anticipated need). On the other side of the coin, with TrumpCare, instead of allowing a new participant into the market you're saying no we don't want your money you have to sit in the corner until this arbitrary date comes. During which time, you aren't contributing to the insurance market and any anticipated healthcare costs you have will gently caress you.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:30
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Skippy Granola posted:Is it typical for Americans to go uninsured and then try to get insurance once they get sick or injured? Not really, the default for a long time has basically been "roll the dice on being uninsured and then figure it out when your organs revolt against you".
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Jun 26, 2017 23:30
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The Glumslinger posted:CNN sent a courtroom sketch artist to the Friday briefing lol, they're alright sometimes
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Jun 26, 2017 23:31
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ReidRansom posted:lol, they're alright sometimes No this is some cutesy bullshit stunt instead of being real journalists and turning on their drat cameras.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:32
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Man screw my state 
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Jun 26, 2017 23:32
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No Safe Word posted:It's the same intent, but a significantly shittier mechanism. Yes, you're penalized in a financial way by the individual mandate, but if you decide you want to start paying into the insurance market you can do so immediately. That helps everyone, though probably it benefits the new participant more because they're likely only (re-)starting coverage because of a need (or an anticipated need). Yeah, but they can't use the mandate mechanism because they spent eight years lying about it. Most of Trumpcare is due to their inability to admit they were lying and having to work within the cage of lies they've constructed.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:34
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:There's no way they pass this thing.
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