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Lemming posted:This argument only makes sense if single payer would cost more, but it would literally be cheaper for California as a whole than our current system. There's no reason not to do it. It would be cheaper to Californians, but would still require a massive tax increase to fund. Like, its good thing that we need to work towards, but it doesn't address the fact that they would need 100% of democrats in the CA legislature to vote for it, they couldn't survive a single defection, and the CA state democratic party doesn't have the power to gently caress over anyone who defected, assuming (and I'm going to be super, duper generous and say that they would)
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Jun 27, 2017 03:20
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If Zuck runs Jesse Eisenberg should run too
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Jun 27, 2017 03:20
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Shifty Pony posted:Manhole covers fit in though 
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Jun 27, 2017 03:22
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Hollismason posted:The thing is if you are on Medicaid then you get a job the income from that job disqualifies you from Medicaid because of income limits, but most insurances don't kick in for 90 days. So uh what happens then. Usually you have a waiting period of 30 to 90 days before being able to get into the insurance that the job offers like a probationary period. This is one of the barriers that exist that keep people on Medicaid because they can't afford to lose health insurance. Seriously? May be it's because I am in CA, but there was no probationary period of any kind for insurance at the ~7 jobs I had.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:23
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Jaxyon posted:Give me a loving break there's been mulitiple fully fleshed out MfA bills at both the state and federal level and nobody says it''s simple. Lemming posted:The issue is as usual the establishment Dems are insanely evil hosed up bastards and don't actually support it, so they come up with procedural excuses to pretend like they support it but allows them to not go through with it, and inexplicably there are people who fall for the "hm yes I see, the people with all the political power are the powerless ones here and have no option other than to kill it without letting it go through debate or committee" and it keeps working somehow Lemming posted:No real people will suffer from the switch. The system will be more straightforward and easier for everyone.  Also the Federal Bills are fleshed out in the same way that Repeal/Replace legislation was fleshed out... there are words on a page and it's obvious that nobody thought things through as if the bill would actually be implemented. From the same minds that found nothing wrong with hyping the healthcare plan as "deficit-neutral" (provided we have 5% annual GDP growth... for a decade...). Lemming posted:Yeah I'm sure that smothering the bill and killing it before it can get to the point where they can have discussion on it and amend it to flesh out those details and fix those problems is what someone who was very supportive of it but concerned about details would do, and not someone who doesn't support it but was looking for a fig leaf to try to make it go away Transitioning from an employer-sponsored environment to single payer is a challenge. Doubly so when it turns out that a strong, bipartisan majority is satisfied with the status quo (http://www.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-health-plans-satisfied.aspx . Alternatively, their healthcare tracking shows through late 2016 with coverage satisfaction in the high 70s and low 80s, and +14 on satisfaction with the total cost). Triply so when dealing with some of California's specifics, like the aforementioned Prop98. I've not seen any detailed proposals from this decade on how to make the transition. I'd be thrilled to be corrected if i'm wrong. UHC is a moral imperative and Single Payer is one way of achieving that goal. It's also an immensely complex way of achieving it and the nuance of why it's more complicated here than in Canada, the UK, or other nations may be inconvenient...but it's also pretty drat critical. I'm open to any plan that gets us to Universal Healthcare, and quickly. But MfA, in every "plan" I've seen, matches up with 2012-2016 era Repeal&Replace. I'd prefer Democrats learn the correct lesson from the current struggles: That masturbatory whinging about the Establishment doesn't accomplish poo poo and trying to ram a piece of halfassed legislation through to fulfill a campaign promise leads to a lot of pain But hey, you already know all of this. So tell me, how would you handle the challenges presented by 98?
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Jun 27, 2017 03:24
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prom candy posted:If Zuck runs Jesse Eisenberg should run too And Michael Cera for maximum confusion.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:28
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A tale of two official statements https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/879516159145631745 https://twitter.com/RealPressSecBot/status/879526208366493696
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Jun 27, 2017 03:28
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hmmmm, the assad regime seems resilient to our bombing and has managed to use it's russian support to fight most of the rebel and islamist groups to a standstill. boys, let's try the big bomb.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:29
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Skippy Granola posted:Badass Why would they care? Boon posted:To me, tying McCain's politics into personal and professional leadership is really weird. There is an implication that because he did something heroic that he shouldn't be a lovely person politically. Turns out people can be excellent leaders and really poor politicians (or pilots). At no point in his life has McCain been a decent leader, much less an excellent leader. He is the idiot son of greater men and was able to fail upwards in life due to it.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:31
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The Glumslinger posted:It would be cheaper to Californians, but would still require a massive tax increase to fund. Like, its good thing that we need to work towards, but it doesn't address the fact that they would need 100% of democrats in the CA legislature to vote for it, they couldn't survive a single defection, and the CA state democratic party doesn't have the power to gently caress over anyone who defected, assuming (and I'm going to be super, duper generous and say that they would) Right, my point is that the negatives of this are massively outweighed by the positives, and that the fact that Dems like Rendon who are using every trick they can to block it from even coming up for discussion are being dishonest and evil Paracaidas posted:
Tell me, how exactly does killing the bill, blocking it from going to a committee and being subject to being amended, how does that advance the cause of single payer? Because if I was against it but didn't want to be seen to be against it, that's exactly what I would do. Tell me where I said it should be passed exactly in its current form, with no funding mechanisms or any other changes. People are pissed and calling for establishment blood because they are doing everything they can to stop it and very obviously not working towards getting the bill in a state where it could pass. If they supported single payer, it'd be brought into committees, they'd have discussions, hearings, meetings, etc. The speaker took explicit action to block these things from happening. You're just eating up the justification.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:32
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awesmoe posted:A tale of two official statements Oh, for gently caress's sake 
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Jun 27, 2017 03:34
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https://twitter.com/JoeMande/status/879061224100552704
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Jun 27, 2017 03:36
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what if we gave all the boars in Texas universal healthcare in exchange for mounting a resistance against trump ^imagine how scaly with dead skin it is
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Jun 27, 2017 03:36
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awesmoe posted:A tale of two official statements At some point we need to come to grips with ourselves and realize that either a) aliens aren't real or b) the president doesn't have high enough security clearance to see because this moron would have tweeted about it if he knew it would help his numbers
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Jun 27, 2017 03:39
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Blitz7x posted:At some point we need to come to grips with ourselves and realize that either a) aliens aren't real or b) the president doesn't have high enough security clearance to see because this moron would have tweeted about it if he knew it would help his numbers He's laser focused on the issues that he thinks are important
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Jun 27, 2017 03:40
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https://twitter.com/Walldo/status/879524986335019008
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Jun 27, 2017 03:40
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Blitz7x posted:At some point we need to come to grips with ourselves and realize that either a) aliens aren't real or b) the president doesn't have high enough security clearance to see because this moron would have tweeted about it if he knew it would help his numbers
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Jun 27, 2017 03:43
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Press conferences are no longer public and the White House is now making up stories to gaslight everyone in the hopes that the lack of visibility via lack of video tape will cover their asses.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:44
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pumpinglemma posted:C'mon. If aliens were real, and there were a mysterious hyper-competent conspiracy to hide that fact from the general public, they wouldn't let Trump find out whether the president nominally has clearance or not. They'd probably just put it on page 47 of a daily briefing and make the wordsearch and join-the-dots puzzles in his one-page summary especially difficult that day. haha get a load of this guy thinking trump has long briefing documents with words and things (he literally doesn't. people have to make them a few pages at most with bullet points and extra big maps and pictures. also have to mention TRUMP multiple times since he tends to read those parts immediately and skip the rest.)
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Jun 27, 2017 03:46
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Surely... surely nobody's psychotic enough to send another however many million (?) dollar bombs based on a bald faced loving lie. ... Right?
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Jun 27, 2017 03:47
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Same Great Paste posted:Surely... surely nobody's psychotic enough to send another however many million (?) dollar bombs based on a bald faced loving lie. ... Right? You're right, Iraq War 2 never happened The man needs his ratings and approval like a loving junkie. There is a joke about the AHCA in there for someone funnier than I am
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Jun 27, 2017 03:49
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Man, I'm sure this will be good for our country that our military is so confused by even the President's own statements.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:51
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Lemming posted:Right, my point is that the negatives of this are massively outweighed by the positives, and that the fact that Dems like Rendon who are using every trick they can to block it from even coming up for discussion are being dishonest and evil People are pissed and calling for establishment blood because it's what happens when the minority wing of the party loses. The bill was mercykilled. It was empty nonsense that lacked a meaningful funding mechanism, failed to address 98 (would still love to hear your thoughts on the challenge this poses!), and was clearly intended to show effort without expending any. The senate lobbed it to the House to make Rendon eat the fact that it was infeasible. If he can't keep his caucus on board, well, that's not the Senate's fault! Lara and Atkins deserve your scorn one hell of a lot more than Rendon does. They should go ahead and spend the next year putting together something with details, funding mechanisms, and teeth. The only reason to make 562 that vapid was to take a victory lap for having passed Single Payer, knowing it was never going to make its way back to your chamber. There isn't enough time or hearings in the session to rescue that bill, as a number of D senators mentioned when it passed. It's Cali. Most states would kill to access the public policy resources available out there. I bet if Atkins, Lara, and their staffs reallllllly work hard, they can come up with some actual legislation to propose in the next session. Or they can spend that time fundraising about how the Establishment hosed them over. I'd put money on the latter, but maybe they'll surprise me.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:58
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I remember years ago when I didn't have health insurance, in the pre-Obamacare days. My job didn't offer it, and actually affording health insurance out-of-pocket was a simply laughable idea. I could pay rent, or I could have healthcare, not both. I started having chest pains. Started small, but eventually they were bad enough to basically incapacitate me when they happened. Just shooting, throbbing, burning pain and pressure in my chest at seemingly random times. I would have made a doctor's appointment, but I needed to pay rent that month, like all other months. So I just dealt with it. But horrible recurring pain in the general vicinity of my heart made it seem clear this was something serious. The pains got worse over the course of a couple months. I didn't tell anyone, because I couldn't afford to be taken to the hospital. I just pretended it was no big deal. Even worse, what if I admitted I had a problem now, and it was diagnosed. That would make this a pre-existing condition. Then I'd NEVER be able to get health coverage, even once I had a better job and more money. One day, the pain was worse than ever. If I had health insurance, I would have gone to the emergency room. But without medical coverage, that trip to the E.R. would basically ruin me financially... maybe for life. Or worse, my family could be stuck with the crippling debt too, and maybe my parents would never be able to retire... or lose their house... or... poo poo. So, I did what seemed to be the most logical thing at the time when I felt like my heart was going to just loving explode. In a haze of pain, I went outside and started sprinting as hard as I possibly could. I'm a terrible runner, but I sprinted full-out for about seven blocks, fully intent on just letting this loving thing happen. If my heart was going to give out, then godddamn it, get this poo poo over with. Everything burned, everything hurt, the pain was intense before I even began, and got worse as I pushed myself. I was not intending to make it back home. As an American with no health insurance, this seemed like a reasonable solution. I'm still not sure it wasn't. Eventually I just sort of collapsed from exhaustion and being completely out of breath, but no actual dying. After a few more weeks of research, I found out that lactose intolerance in some cases can cause intense chest pain and pressure... basically gas that is refusing to go anywhere. Sure enough, it was something that goddamn stupid and simple, and if I had felt like I could go to a Doctor in the first place, they could have told me that before I basically attempted suicide. pokie posted:Seriously? May be it's because I am in CA, but there was no probationary period of any kind for insurance at the ~7 jobs I had. I'm glad we have good health insurance now. Mrs. Hobo ended up in the hospital with a very nasty case of pancreatitis a couple years ago, for most of a summer. Insurance covered almost all of it, which was good, because the last total I saw for the bill was nearing the half-million dollar range. Of course, if she were to lose her job, she'd lose insurance. Without the Obamacare protections for pre-existing conditions, would she be able to get coverage again? If there's a relapse or another issue of that sort, which is possible... what then? By this bill, it would only take us (or any family) a single bad month with missed payments at each end to completely ruin them.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:05
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Roland Jones posted:Hey, I might have missed this being posted, but, the reason why Republicans are pushing the AHCA so hard? Their donors are demanding it and refusing to pay unless they do. Holy poo poo, read this article! The Koch brothers alone are threatening to withhold $400 million in funding if the GOP doesn't pass BRCA and tax cuts.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:05
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Hey Zuck go gently caress yourself.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:08
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Paracaidas posted:People are pissed and calling for establishment blood because it's what happens when the minority wing of the party loses. The bill was mercykilled. It was empty nonsense that lacked a meaningful funding mechanism, failed to address 98 (would still love to hear your thoughts on the challenge this poses!), and was clearly intended to show effort without expending any. The senate lobbed it to the House to make Rendon eat the fact that it was infeasible. If he can't keep his caucus on board, well, that's not the Senate's fault! The bill came with research that included a funding proposal, dumbass. And no, I'm not stupid enough to blame the people who brought it up and are working towards progress instead of the people who are hamstringing that progress. I don't believe that somehow two senators need to build an entire bill from scratch that needs to meet some arbitrary standard before it can go to committee and get amended. That standard will change every time if the same people are in charge. I'm glad it came as far as it did because it shines a light on the cockroaches. My senator, Glazer, voted against it for more or less the same reasons you don't like it, and guess what, he's a piece of poo poo who brags about voting with the Republicans 80% of the time. He says he's for single payer but you'd have to be a colossal moron to believe him. And you're telling me that's the guy I should be trusting because he's making the grown up choices. gently caress that. They could improve it, or at the very least make a modicum of effort, but they won't, because they are ideologically against it. Literally nothing will be good enough for them, they'll always find an excuse, and the only remedy is to get rid of them.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:08
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Arglebargle III posted:Holy poo poo, read this article! The Koch brothers alone are threatening to withhold $400 million in funding if the GOP doesn't pass BRCA and tax cuts. So? Call their bluff. What are they going to do, fund the democrats instead?
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Jun 27, 2017 04:10
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PT6A posted:So? Call their bluff. What are they going to do, fund the democrats instead? They do that already.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:10
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Robot Hobo posted:
And remember, you won't even need to forget or miss a payment yourself. They'll just have convenient billing glitches they won't tell you about when you get majorly sick.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:10
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PT6A posted:So? Call their bluff. What are they going to do, fund the democrats instead? new yacht
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Jun 27, 2017 04:11
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Had anyone said bitch mcconnell yet
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Jun 27, 2017 04:13
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Arglebargle III posted:Holy poo poo, read this article! The Koch brothers alone are threatening to withhold $400 million in funding if the GOP doesn't pass BRCA and tax cuts. Really last article I saw about them was that they were against the new health bill.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:14
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evilweasel posted:new yacht Or hooker-and-blow parties, but why should the Republicans care? Oxxidation posted:They do that already. Then presumably they would continue to fund the Republicans if they don't get exactly what they want anyway, since it's good to hedge your bets. In any event, I have no idea why the Republicans feel so beholden to them. Tell them to get hosed, and do what will resonate most with voters at least. That may be lovely populism, but at least it isn't abject retardation bought and paid for by billionaires.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:15
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PT6A posted:In any event, I have no idea why the Republicans feel so beholden to them. Republican politicians (and plenty of Democratic ones, too) exist for those donors. Those donors are the ones who guarantee them cushy jobs and high wages while they sit in Congress. The actual citizens are an inconvenient nuisance who need to be manipulated for the sake of the donors.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:17
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Really last article I saw about them was that they were against the new health bill. For not going far enough.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:20
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Evil Fluffy posted:At no point in his life has McCain been a decent leader, much less an excellent leader. He is the idiot son of greater men and was able to fail upwards in life due to it. Nah, his time at the Hanoi Hilton is a pretty good example of leadership in captivity. But I know you're being intentionally obtuse so
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Jun 27, 2017 04:22
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PT6A posted:So? Call their bluff. What are they going to do, fund the democrats instead? Fund their primary challengers
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Jun 27, 2017 04:23
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Tatsuta Age posted:Had anyone said bitch mcconnell yet lmao I don't get how thats possible but no
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Jun 27, 2017 04:26
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berserker posted:lmao I don't get how thats possible but no I prefer Turtle McFuckerson.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:28
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