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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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Neurolimal posted:That explains things somewhat. American posters ITT dont necessarily care about the difference because socialism in general is/was a dirty word down here, so its an overall good that a leftwards movement is co-opting and rehabilitating the term, even if it's not exactly socialism. You think the way to rehabilitate the term socialism is to lie to people about what it means? Frankly, I disagree.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:44
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Falstaff posted:You think the way to rehabilitate the term socialism is to lie to people about what it means? Frankly, I disagree. It's no more a lie than american definitions of democratic, republican,conservative, liberal, leftwing, and rightwing. It's further left than typical leftwing american politicians, and well in the spirit of socialism proper. I'd argue that you won't see much success in general if you try to get newcomers to recite manifestos verbatim, rather than providing gateway drugs.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:49
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Mister Facetious posted:Are you sure? I remember the opposite, but I can't be arsed to look through his posts. Fishmech trolled the Bernie thread in C-SPAM during the primaries relentlessly over clinton
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Jun 24, 2017 20:17
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Cerebral Bore posted:Buddy, the idea that honest discussion about the things you disagree on among leftists is circular firing squad self-sabotage is far more damaging to any left movement than even the most heated debate. Yes? Hence my use of the word "fight" rather than "honest discussion." Policies, not posting.
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Jun 24, 2017 20:17
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Falstaff posted:You think the way to rehabilitate the term socialism is to lie to people about what it means? Frankly, I disagree. Yeah. I think the lesson of the Labour manifesto leak is that there's not much to be gained by hiding positions that will sound good and downright energizing to tons of voters. I was at a community meeting of church grandmas in Petaluma a month ago. It took less than 30 minutes for them to get from "there's stuff happening around us that I'm sad about" to "we must unite to destroy the enemy, Capitalism." Admittedly, it's a granola-ier part of the country, but it opened my eyes to what can be achieved at the state and local level.
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Jun 24, 2017 20:31
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Humidora posted:Fishmech trolled the Bernie thread in C-SPAM during the primaries relentlessly over clinton quote:trolled quote:C-SPAM Not sure I see the problem
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Jun 24, 2017 20:41
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Mister Facetious posted:Are you sure? I remember the opposite, but I can't be arsed to look through his posts. How could you forget fishmechs reign of terror
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Jun 24, 2017 20:45
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Doc Hawkins posted:Yeah. I think the lesson of the Labour manifesto leak is that there's not much to be gained by hiding positions that will sound good and downright energizing to tons of voters. For sure, I'm not against hiding anything, just that our history of Red Scare politics means that its sometimes easier to sell a smooth transition to socialism than "redistribute the means of production ASAP" Which is a shame since even with outsourced jobs america is probably still one of the best options for it, what with our variety of industries and hilariously oversized agriculture industry.
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Jun 24, 2017 21:08
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dont even fink about it posted:Not sure I see the problem There is none, my point was just that I wouldn't assume anything about fishmech's core beliefs at this point.
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Jun 24, 2017 21:28
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https://twitter.com/seanmcelwee/status/878302686617026561
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Jun 24, 2017 22:52
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Homeless Friend posted:How could you forget fishmechs reign of terror Have you tried keeping up with the Trump thread?  It can't be done. It's why I only read three or so D&D related threads, and to be honest, I read everything he posts as tongue in cheek anyway.
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Jun 24, 2017 23:01
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Party Plane Jones posted:http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-fbi-investigation-for-bank-fraud-hire-lawyers/ So... this could be an issue going forward.
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Jun 24, 2017 23:18
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Nucleic Acids posted:So... this could be an issue going forward. it's complaint from the head the Vermont GOP brought to them by the president of the college when it actually closed who then tried to blackmail Bernie's campaign over it before taking it to the aforementioned GOP person It is almost assuredly completely baseless
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Jun 24, 2017 23:22
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https://twitter.com/kenbaumann/status/878342741725335552
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Jun 25, 2017 04:34
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Stealing this for social media sharing.
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Jun 25, 2017 05:27
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TIL that reddit/neoliberal is a real thing. Is it just a bunch of white folks trying to out identity politics one another? Christ, neoliberalism is a loving cancer. I’m getting mad at democrats again. Edit: nope. They are just defending conservative economic theory and hand waving away poverty. Dirk Pitt fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jun 26, 2017 |
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Jun 26, 2017 17:23
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https://twitter.com/NationalNurses/status/879429258711625731 too bad democrats made sure californians will continue to suffer under the twisted us healthcare system. thanks dems
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Jun 26, 2017 22:03
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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/NationalNurses/status/879429258711625731 Something, something, Hillary and the popular vote, amirite? When you think about it, if Hillary had won, no one would be fighting for better healthcare. They'd just coast on the status quo of the ACA. It's only with the loss of all three branches of the Federal government that people
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Jun 26, 2017 22:28
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Mister Facetious posted:Something, something, Hillary and the popular vote, amirite? I'm glad that more and more people are coming around, but that road is going to be a living hell for a whole lot of people. 
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Jun 26, 2017 22:39
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Feldegast42 posted:I'm glad that more and more people are coming around, but that road is going to be a living hell for a whole lot of people. Crowdfund a 'Nam style wall of names in DC with all the people who died without health insurance. Bonus points if it's directly across, and facing the Democratic/Republican Party headquarters.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:04
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Raskolnikov38 posted:it's complaint from the head the Vermont GOP brought to them by the president of the college when it actually closed who then tried to blackmail Bernie's campaign over it before taking it to the aforementioned GOP person Well, right wing sites are doing as you'd expect ("Sanders is under investigation, Trump isn't"), I'm just wondering if there are specific sources on this. It just seems a bit strange that it came out of nowhere around the time of the healthcare debate.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:21
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Nucleic Acids posted:Well, right wing sites are doing as you'd expect ("Sanders is under investigation, Trump isn't"), I'm just wondering if there are specific sources on this. It just seems a bit strange that it came out of nowhere around the time of the healthcare debate. Pretty sure it'll be drowned out by the rest of the media circus and then wind up being nothing.
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Jun 27, 2017 05:26
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WampaLord posted:I'll stop going in there, it's just sad to see so many people acting like ostriches with the head in the sand. I was wondering why this thread had gotten so readable, guess all the electability masters went to the Trump thread Megaman's Jockstrap posted:A bit of bad news about the 'stache. I never got this, Clinton kicked BLM protestors out of her meetings, Sanders let them take the stand and speak - then hired the founders of the movement. I get we need to toss the Clintonites a bone and "admit" that Sanders was a hardcore white supremacist before he was gently moderated in the primaries, but this is too far. call to action fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 14:03
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call to action posted:I never got this, Clinton kicked BLM protestors out of her meetings, Sanders let them take the stand and speak - then hired the founders of the movement. I get we need to toss the Clintonites a bone and "admit" that Sanders was a hardcore white supremacist before he was gently moderated in the primaries, but this is too far. Hillary SLAYED those unruly super protesters with Khaleesi dragon-fire but poor Severus Sanders Dumbledored a muggle.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:23
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spacejung posted:Hillary SLAYED those unruly super protesters with Khaleesi dragon-fire but poor Severus Sanders Dumbledored a muggle.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:35
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call to action posted:I never got this, Clinton kicked BLM protestors out of her meetings, Sanders let them take the stand and speak - then hired the founders of the movement. I get we need to toss the Clintonites a bone and "admit" that Sanders was a hardcore white supremacist before he was gently moderated in the primaries, but this is too far. The BLM protestors who interrupted Sanders in Seattle said that the campaign recast it as Sanders letting them speak, but that wasn't reality during the moment. The video clearly shows them being booed by the crowd and the protesters fighting to be able to say what they want, while the crowd tries to no-platform and throws water bottles at them. Marissa Johnson wrote about the experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV-ZSP0zAuI Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 16:16
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Neon Belly posted:The BLM protestors who interrupted Sanders in Seattle said that the campaign recast it as Sanders letting them speak, but that wasn't reality during the moment. The video clearly shows them being booed by the crowd and the protesters fighting to be able to say what they want, while the crowd tries to no-platform and throws water bottles at them. What the last election showed me is no one really cares about african americans. In fact most americans hate them.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:19
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Neon Belly posted:The BLM protestors who interrupted Sanders in Seattle said that the campaign recast it as Sanders letting them speak, but that wasn't reality during the moment. The video clearly shows them being booed by the crowd and the protesters fighting to be able to say what they want, while the crowd tries to no-platform and throws water bottles at them. Marissa Johnson wrote about the experience. What exactly could Bernie and his staff have done for that, though? I mean he didn't demand they boo. At some point you have to just accept that the reason it went poorly wasn't because they didn't want to hear black issues, but because they wanted to see Sanders, and Sanders can't do much about that. I 100% believe he'd have been cool with formally introducing them if they had coordinated with him prior, but they obviously didn't expect him to actually let them speak (which I don't blame, considering how this went when other BLM tried it at Hillary and the GOP primary events).
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Jun 27, 2017 16:22
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Neon Belly posted:The BLM protestors who interrupted Sanders in Seattle said that the campaign recast it as Sanders letting them speak, but that wasn't reality during the moment. The video clearly shows them being booed by the crowd and the protesters fighting to be able to say what they want, while the crowd tries to no-platform and throws water bottles at them. Marissa Johnson wrote about the experience. It seems like that account confirms he let them speak though?
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Jun 27, 2017 16:26
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Neon Belly posted:The BLM protestors who interrupted Sanders in Seattle said that the campaign recast it as Sanders letting them speak, but that wasn't reality during the moment. The video clearly shows them being booed by the crowd and the protesters fighting to be able to say what they want, while the crowd tries to no-platform and throws water bottles at them. Marissa Johnson wrote about the experience. the crowd != the campaign. bernie let them speak despite the wishes of some of his supporters. and that's good, because it means bernie's a better man than those who support him, which is what you want in a politician
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Jun 27, 2017 16:37
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Neon Belly posted:The BLM protestors who interrupted Sanders in Seattle said that the campaign recast it as Sanders letting them speak, but that wasn't reality during the moment. The video clearly shows them being booed by the crowd and the protesters fighting to be able to say what they want, while the crowd tries to no-platform and throws water bottles at them. Marissa Johnson wrote about the experience. So you're not denying that Bernie did literally everything he personally could to amplify the voices of black people? Good. Killer Michael also talked at length about the encounter, if you're interested.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:44
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But you know, it really is important that politicians directly confront the racism within their ranks: Considering the number of minorities that supported Clinton, this certainly does not paint Clinton supporters in a good like. Looks like we've all got quite a bit of work to do, especially the slaveowners among us.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:48
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Elizabeth Warren is great:quote:“President Obama tried to move us forward with health-care coverage by using a conservative model that came from one of the conservative think tanks that had been advanced by a Republican governor in Massachusetts,” she said during an interview in her Senate office last week. “Now it’s time for the next step. And the next step is single payer.” Long live Elizabeth Warren y'all. 
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Jun 27, 2017 16:51
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call to action posted:So you're not denying that Bernie did literally everything he personally could to amplify the voices of black people? Good. From the BLM organizer's account of the action that I linked but you overlooked, which also disputes Killer Mike's interpretation: quote:No, Bernie never gave us the mic. It was forced from him. No, he did not listen. He and his staff repeatedly tried to stop us both physically and verbally so that he could speak. When he knew he would not get that opportunity, he chose to leave, saying he was “disappointed that two people disrupted a rally attended by thousands . . . I was especially disappointed because on criminal-justice reform and the need to fight racism, there is no other candidate for president who will fight harder than me.” Clearly he did not embrace us. Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 16:52
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Did you even watch the video? Bernie never attempts to physically stop them in any way and stays on stage as they speak.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:57
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:What the last election showed me is no one really cares about african americans. In fact most americans hate them. Considering all whites are racist this is true.
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Jun 27, 2017 17:09
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Neon Belly posted:From the BLM organizer's account of the action that I linked but you overlooked, which also disputes Killer Mike's interpretation: Well, luckily we have the privilege of a video of the event, which allows us to see what happened instead of relying on biased testimonies of either side
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Jun 27, 2017 17:11
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Neon Belly posted:From the BLM organizer's account of the action that I linked but you overlooked, which also disputes Killer Mike's interpretation: I'm watching the video right now, and I'm not seeing where they're getting physically restrained (other than at the beginning when they rush the stage, which shouldn't be surprising), or having the mic forced from them. Where are these things happening?
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Jun 27, 2017 17:16
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call to action posted:But you know, it really is important that politicians directly confront the racism within their ranks: I bet you if you asked black people those questions you'd actually get similar results.
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Jun 27, 2017 17:18
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:I bet you if you asked black people those questions you'd actually get similar results. Black people can be pretty racist towards black people. I mean look at the reaction from older black americans when a rapper does anything political.
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Jun 27, 2017 17:19
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