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Turtlicious posted:Rachel Dolezal has always confused me, and I never quite know how to feel about it. It's cultural appropriation to the highest degree, but she got started on that path when Harvard gave her a scholarship because they had thought she was black, (due to doing a lot of Civil Rights Protests, and because her thesis at Howard was about life through the eyes of a black man. They were going to pull back the scholarship but there was some controversy over that. So she gets into college, and she thinks she knows enough about being black that she could do more good for civil rights as passing. She eventually passes well enough and does enough good to become the president of the NAACP in Spokane, and she had done so much civil rights work I always wonder. I used to have a lot of sympathy for Dolezal when everyone found out. To want to continue living the life as a black person even as everything fell apart around you has to be hard. Most people I know would say "gently caress this poo poo" and go back to doing something easier. But the interviews that she gave after all that stuff came out just showed to me that she just didn't get it.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:12
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Gonna repost this excellent article on her.
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Jun 26, 2017 10:51
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah that's basically the same thing as "if gay marriage why not goat marriage?" people and just as undeserving of a response Wouldn't the best response there be "Why do you want to marry goats?" because the only people that make that argument are substituting in the thing they secretly wish they could do?
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Jun 26, 2017 13:31
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tbh I wouldn't care who someone loved and married so long as we were able to confirm with 100% certainty that the other party(goat, or whatever) was able to consent to it. Like if we ever get to a point where we can parse an animal's language and feelings and someone wants to marry their horse, who also wants to marry them for some god forsaken reason. Then more power to them.
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Jun 26, 2017 14:55
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If you do nothing else, read this essay. Turtlicious posted:because her thesis at Howard was about life through the eyes of a black man. Was it good though, or was it based in a fetishized, stereotypical idea of what "life through the eyes of a black man" is like? quote:She eventually passes well enough and does enough good to become the president of the NAACP in Spokane Because she was in Spokane, a city that is only 2.2% Black. The Black people around her and people who actually spent time around Black people realized something was up but felt it was too awkward to call her out. Please read these first-hand experiences of her and then tell me how benevolent her work was. quote:Also, if someone wants to pass as black, what causes that? Is it a fetishization of their race? Or is it like a mental issue? Again:
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Jun 26, 2017 14:58
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Dexo posted:tbh I wouldn't care who someone loved and married so long as we were able to confirm with 100% certainty that the other party(goat, or whatever) was able to consent to it. You saw that episode of Jerry Springer too, eh?
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Jun 26, 2017 16:01
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Dexo posted:tbh I wouldn't care who someone loved and married so long as we were able to confirm with 100% certainty that the other party(goat, or whatever) was able to consent to it. I get where you're coming from, but engaging a disingenuous argument even to this point just encourages them. The only good response is to say "don't be stupid" and walk away.
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Jun 26, 2017 16:06
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cis autodrag posted:I get where you're coming from, but engaging a disingenuous argument even to this point just encourages them. The only good response is to say "don't be stupid" and walk away. Or maybe "So you think (minority group) people aren't human? Thanks for clearing that up." and then walking away.
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Jun 26, 2017 16:30
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah that's basically the same thing as "if gay marriage why not goat marriage?" people and just as undeserving of a response The problem with that argument, Tiny Brontosaurus, is that gay people are people and Black people are people and trans people are people but goats are not people. Therefore the way 'goat marriage' and gay marriage are unanalogous is dissimilar to the way transgenderism and transracialism are being compared in your argument.
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Jun 26, 2017 22:19
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The Insect Court posted:The problem with that argument, Tiny Brontosaurus, is that gay people are people and Black people are people and trans people are people but goats are not people. Therefore the way 'goat marriage' and gay marriage are unanalogous is dissimilar to the way transgenderism and transracialism are being compared in your argument. gently caress off. and "transgenderism" isn't a word fucker.
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Jun 26, 2017 22:43
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cis autodrag posted:gently caress off. and "transgenderism" isn't a word fucker. Are you kidding. That's the name of my new experimental synth album.
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Jun 27, 2017 01:10
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there wolf posted:Are you kidding. That's the name of my new experimental synth album. my bands name is homosexualism.
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Jun 27, 2017 01:20
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The Insect Court posted:The problem with that argument, Tiny Brontosaurus, is that gay people are people and Black people are people and trans people are people but goats are not people. Therefore the way 'goat marriage' and gay marriage are unanalogous is dissimilar to the way transgenderism and transracialism are being compared in your argument. You gotta wonder what makes someone tick such that they'd charge right into the posting ghetto for antiracism, feminism, etc. and insist trans people are a fake idea, but in a completely cowardly way. There's, like, levels here.
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Jun 27, 2017 01:42
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Ballou HS in Washington D.C. just announced today that every one of the graduating students of the 2017 senior class have applied to, and been accepted at, at least one university. This is a poorly funded inner city school that ranks as D.C.'s lowest performing, and all 930 of the primarily Black students live below the poverty line. Last year they only had a 57% graduation rate, and only 3% of the students met reading standards for the area. http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/06/15/struggling-d-c-high-school-sees-record-graduation-rates-entire-class-gets-college-acceptance-letters/
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Jun 27, 2017 02:34
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cis autodrag posted:gently caress off. and "transgenderism" isn't a word fucker. Not to defend any other claim the rear end in a top hat is making, but it kind of is. Julia Serano goes into a pretty nice history of its use and the recent trend against its use.
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Jun 27, 2017 02:55
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Reflections85 posted:Not to defend any other claim the rear end in a top hat is making, but it kind of is. Julia Serano goes into a pretty nice history of its use and the recent trend against its use. She's citing people like Kate Bornstein to support this usage which doesn't pass the smell test with me since Bornstein also advocates using "tranny" as a primary identity word for trans people. The earliest usage I can find is The International Journal of Transgenderism, which is the journal of WPATH. But it was named that back when WPATH was still called the Harry Benjamin Society, a name denoting the outdated belief that being transgender results from a mental developmental disorder. What I'm getting at here is that its roots are absolutely in identifying trans identities as a disorder. We can debate reclaiming words (there's even a thread for it), but I'm not a fan of reclaiming tbh and it especially doesn't belong in the mouth of a piece of poo poo like the insect court. edit: also, as far as I can tell with search, this is not only your only post in this thread but your only post about transgender issues at all. Did you just google the first blog you could find that mentioned the word so you could score points? The MUMPSorceress fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 04:43
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cis autodrag posted:She's citing people like Kate Bornstein to support this usage which doesn't pass the smell test with me since Bornstein also advocates using "tranny" as a primary identity word for trans people. quote:The earliest usage I can find is The International Journal of Transgenderism, which is the journal of WPATH. But it was named that back when WPATH was still called the Harry Benjamin Society, a name denoting the outdated belief that being transgender results from a mental developmental disorder. Hmm I think I can find a use a bit earlier than that from Sexual Hygiene and Pathology (1965), albeit as you say used in a medicalized way. But on the other hand, it seems that a fair few people claim inspiration from Virginia Prince who claimed to have invented the term at roughly the same time. Which makes me wonder how much this is reclaiming vs. how much this is different members of the same community having different experiences with a word resulting in them taking the word differently, especially since there appear to be unmarked uses of the term by trans activists. And I am not sure that it being descended from such a term means that one should not necessarily use it. Gender dysphora also descends from the idea that trans* folk suffer from some mental disorder. Despite knowing some trans people who use the term, should I refuse to use it? I'm pretty sure that gender identity descends from use in 1960s psychology, so is that out as well? quote:edit: also, as far as I can tell with search, this is not only your only post in this thread but your only post about transgender issues at all. Did you just google the first blog you could find that mentioned the word so you could score points? Um. If you searched through my posts, you'll probably notice that I've posted less than 100 times in four years of membership. I just lurk and follow threads mostly. I followed this one because I'm black, albeit I found out about the thread when it was like 100 pages long, only read the first fifty or so, and then a few days ago decided to just skip all the other pages and start on the last page to keep track of things. I'm probably not going to post again in this thread after this exchange for a few months (if ever) anyway. Because I rarely do. So, um, what points am I trying to score? Wouldn't the better point scorer mechanism be to have done nothing but say Insect Court was wrong? I commented because I thought (and still think), that your position is wrong. And I found that blog post because I read Whipping Girl a few years back and during early college studied a bit about gender and sexuality during the Weimar Republic (mostly Der Einege and Hirschfeld, along with the more generic "the modern girl" concept). When I was at college there was some debate about terminology and the facilitator for one of the LGBT groups I was at had us read that blogpost. Been following Serano off and on for a while now. Reflections85 fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 08:29
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While I like the discussion, this would probably be better served in the transgender thread or he'll even in its own thread.
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Jun 27, 2017 09:19
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Turtlicious posted:Rachel Dolezal has always confused me, and I never quite know how to feel about it. It's cultural appropriation to the highest degree, but she got started on that path when Harvard gave her a scholarship because they had thought she was black, (due to doing a lot of Civil Rights Protests, and because her thesis at Howard was about life through the eyes of a black man. They were going to pull back the scholarship but there was some controversy over that. So she gets into college, and she thinks she knows enough about being black that she could do more good for civil rights as passing. She eventually passes well enough and does enough good to become the president of the NAACP in Spokane, and she had done so much civil rights work I always wonder. I mean, it definitely puts it in a different light. Like, The Reverend Jim Jones did quite a lot for civil rights when it came to integrating churches in Indiana and California but then he hosed up big time, and that gently caress-up put new perspective on what he was doing and potential reasons. (during the few weeks when I read a bunch of books about Jonestown this is one of the things that surprised me the most. Like, I knew that he was politically relevant in San Francisco, particularly on the campaigns of Harvey Milk and George Moscone, but I did not know that he hailed from Indiana or that his primarily black church in Indianapolis would go around to white churches as a group on Sundays and worship or get kicked out)
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Jun 27, 2017 09:27
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Pachakuti posted:You gotta wonder what makes someone tick such that they'd charge right into the posting ghetto for antiracism, feminism, etc. and insist trans people are a fake idea, but in a completely cowardly way. There's, like, levels here. And the final level, Perma/Probation Evasion Poster, is your projection of that argument onto me. I simply pointed out that the analogy is an incorrect one and so doesn't serve to discredit the concept of transracialism on its own. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2017 09:29
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Thanks for posting this. I hadn't read much on her until now and this sums her up pretty well. I really liked the author's comment about how she can't undo the evils of capitalism by pretending she's a millionaire. That's fantastic.
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Jun 27, 2017 18:48
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The Insect Court posted:And the final level, Perma/Probation Evasion Poster, is your projection of that argument onto me. I simply pointed out that the analogy is an incorrect one and so doesn't serve to discredit the concept of transracialism on its own. The Insect Court posted:Is it ok to both be against transphobia but also mock histrionically whiny narcissisticly E/N endomorphic troons? - a person who thinks we should care about his opinions
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Jun 27, 2017 19:13
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At this point, not having The Insect Court on your ignore list is your own fault unless you registered after the last time they got probated.
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Jun 27, 2017 20:15
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I went to lunch today and saw an awful bumper sticker on a car in front of me when I was on my way back to work. It said "If I had known all this, I would have picked my own cotton". And it was accompanied with a Confederate Flag because of course. These people are just wildin out. They feel emboldened.
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Jun 27, 2017 20:50
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biracial bear for uncut posted:At this point, not having The Insect Court on your ignore list is your own fault unless you registered after the last time they got probated. Sometimes you just want an easy answer as to why a slow thread just ballooned up to 50+ posts in a couple of hours.
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Jun 28, 2017 03:04
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I had not read this before. What an rear end in a top hat. This part really stands out to me, what the hell is she trying to do?! How does someone that racist want to pass as the thing they hate? quote:The dismissive and condescending attitude toward any black people who see blackness differently than she does is woven throughout her comments in our conversation. It is not just our pettiness, it is also our lack of education that is preventing us from getting on Dolezal's level of racial understanding. She informs me multiple times that black people have rejected her because they simply haven't learned yet that race is a social construct created by white supremacists, they simply don't know any better and don't want to: "I've done my research, I think a lot of people, though, haven't probably read those books and maybe never will."
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Jun 28, 2017 03:18
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Turtlicious posted:I had not read this before.  So that's literally "I know how to be black better than black people because I pulled back the curtains?"
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Jun 28, 2017 03:22
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stone cold posted:
Dances with the wolves syndrome on a whole new level. Like even above Avatar somehow.
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Jun 28, 2017 03:55
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i feel like there isnt enough socialist minorities as much anymore 
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Jun 28, 2017 03:58
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Race Realists posted:i feel like there isnt enough socialist minorities as much anymore There are actually a great many socialist people of color, guy with a ton of racism line items on his rap sheet.
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Jun 28, 2017 03:59
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There are actually a great many socialist people of color, guy with a ton of racism line items on his rap sheet. Also, handle of @RaceRealists lmao
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Jun 28, 2017 04:08
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stone cold posted:Also, handle of @RaceRealists lmao What is the most racist username around here? Nelson Mandingo has to be in the running.
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Jun 28, 2017 04:37
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I remember in my adolescence arguing with people (usually conservative dipshits) online over accusations of King being a socialist/communist (this was usually followed with a photo of him in a classroom "HERE R PICTURE OF MILK IN COMMIE SKOOL WHAT BOUT UR BLACK GOD NOW  ")for many many years I considered myself "one of the good ones" (and I have a suspicion many blerds do) the early 00s were just a living loving nightmare for non-white people online
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Jun 28, 2017 04:43
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:What is the most racist username around here? Nelson Mandingo has to be in the running. That has to be the winner  ughhhh
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Jun 28, 2017 04:56
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Are we forgetting n word stomper? There's a guy named jew killer 3000 too.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:24
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cis autodrag posted:Are we forgetting n word stomper? There's a guy named jew killer 3000 too. Stomper isn't around any more, though. Current racists goons only.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:29
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there wolf posted:Stomper isn't around any more, though. Current racists goons only. Yeah I have it on good authority he was permabanned
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Jun 28, 2017 05:40
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah I have it on good authority he was permabanned Hahaha.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:44
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If you get too many socialist minorities then they become majorities and that cancels it out.
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Jun 28, 2017 06:49
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Push El Burrito posted:If you get too many socialist minorities then they become majorities and that cancels it out. [bolshevik]Who says you need to wait that long?[/bolshevik]
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Jun 28, 2017 13:06
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