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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Whoa having to demand the basic human rights that most Americans have and take for granted, black people get all the benefits. You don't see white people arrogantly demanding that they not be murdered for existing, I guess that's a privilege reserved to America's coddled minorities.
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Jun 28, 2017 08:46
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VitalSigns posted:Whoa having to demand the basic human rights that most Americans have and take for granted, black people get all the benefits. Those drat hysterical broads!
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Jun 28, 2017 08:52
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VitalSigns posted:Whoa having to demand the basic human rights that most Americans have and take for granted, black people get all the benefits. sure, black people get murdered extrajudicially all the time, but they also get BET while white people get nothing, so i think it balances out \s
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Jun 28, 2017 08:54
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really what's happened in both cases, the dnc and blm, is that while they say they represent a large bloc of people, actually they are both run by a very small and specific subslice (ie- an activist/leadership class), which uses that symbology for their own self interest, to essentially launch their careers. you'd have a much better model, if you literally just chose people by lottery from the base they represent, or more practically the membership rolls. kinda like jury duty.
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Jun 28, 2017 09:16
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the difference between the two cases, is the method of how one advances in position - while in the dnc this is correlated by how well connected you are to wealthy donors + lobbyists and such. In more social-media groups like blm, it's you're willingness and capability to adopt the kind of performative wokeness that characterizes it, that determines how famous and respectable your position is within it. Hence the obsessive focus on policing words + behavior, and the self-righteous attitude - the easiest way to become famous is to 'take down' someone already famous, and to admit fault is to look weak. Actors are incentivized to always double down and always 'stay current' with whatever is trending. 'Fashion' is an essential part of being famous, after all.
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Jun 28, 2017 09:31
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Maybe, but that doesn't make the tactic of direct action illegitimate. Anyway if the leadership of BLM is such terrible self-interested career climbers but the organization's goals are good, then the obvious solution to disarm their alleged terrible terrible leadership would be for a political candidate to completely adopt the organization's goals thereby leaving the leaders with no reason in the eyes of the BLM membership to disrupt the candidate's rallies. Hell, we could destroy the entire organization if we actually follow through on criminal justice reform after we're elected.
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Jun 28, 2017 09:33
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rudatron posted:The BLM people who gate crashed sander's speech, is like the textbook example of parasitic douchebags using activism to benefit themselves. how dare you try to imply that certain people use activism for their own personal gain. it isn't like one of the women that jumped on stage to take the mic from bernie exploited others sympathetic to her cause by selling them an overpriced safety pin box or a self-proclaimed prominent figure of the movement spoke at a blm panel presented by wells fargo and regularly uses his twitter to shill for corporations i'm pretty sure you're just a bigoted racist nazi fuckhead that wants white supremacy
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Jun 28, 2017 09:48
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This Politician Discovers One Weird Trick™ to stop Protestors and Minorities from disrupting Society Forever! Adopted their causes, make the hard and right reforms, repay centuries of institutional loss, establish a proper and sharp-toothed framework for preventing further discrimination and never waver in the face of screaming White "too far too fast''s It'd all be gone forever, just like so many people wanted. Naaaah though, better just whine about them inconveniencing you, rights and equality are hard.
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Jun 28, 2017 09:55
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Playstation 4 posted:This Politician Discovers One Weird Trick™ to stop Protestors and Minorities from disrupting Society Forever! There is no question what the politicans "should" do, just one about what tactics to use. The ones to use are the ones that are effective. If nabbing the mic from presidential candidates furthers the cause, by all means. I don't think it does though, not without a structure to push the actual change, legislation and voting patterns.
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Jun 28, 2017 10:26
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i think blm is fully justified in whatever tactics they want considering how easy it is to get killed for being black in this country
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Jun 28, 2017 10:36
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The issue is not the tactics. Direct action is great, and stealing someone's mic isn't that violent or whatever. The issue is that direct action isn't so much being used as a tactic, but as a publicity stunts, by people who want to be famous. I was only half-joking with the jury-duty suggestion, it's a totally valid way of choosing leadership.
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Jun 28, 2017 10:45
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I don't know the people who took over that rally, but the "they are only doing it to get attention" argument should imho be used sparsely if at all. Ultimately it can be used to shut down anything. How can anybody prove that their activism isn't just a way to satisfy their narcissism or to scam somebody? Cynism here threatens in very real terms to be an unscalable obstacle to obtaining credibility for grass roots movements. It's not like those activists were linked to objectively anti-progressive orgs so there's very little harm in letting them have their way even if you find their tactics and particular motivations questionable.
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Jun 28, 2017 10:52
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I'm also not sure pining for a messianic political figure is actually that useful - history is determined by forces and trends, not great men. Even if you could find someone sufficiently pure and motivated, they would not be able to meet the expectations you're placing on them. Real social change is bottom-up, not top-down, and the political class will only ever 'get on the bandwagon' when its victory is already a fait accompli. I'll cop to perhaps being an extreme/radical cynic, as is my nature, but I don't think ignoring the possibility for the sake of appearances, is anything but kicking the can down the road. Pscyho-analytically, insecurities and neuroses always find a way to express themselves, and it's the failure to deal with them effectively that's the impediment to true freedom/happiness. Happy & ignorant is in many ways just another fantasy. I think similar principles apply politically, thought I can't prove it. rudatron fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 10:54
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You don't need a messianic figure but you do need someone who is actually on your side. That's the frustrating thing; you don't even need someone brave to do the right thing because there's a lot of things people actually want and are not getting. You don't need politicians to lead the way. You just need them to not get in the way.
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Jun 28, 2017 11:23
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It should be noted that at a ground level Our Revolution and BLM often cooperate heavily, and BLM activists (real ones, not charter school salesmen) end up as OR candidates for D positions. BLM is cool, it's just that there's an awkward situation where the richest black activists tend to try to speak for all black people, despite being primarily interested in trickle-down social progress.
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Jun 28, 2017 12:05
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rudatron posted:really what's happened in both cases, the dnc and blm, is that while they say they represent a large bloc of people, actually they are both run by a very small and specific subslice (ie- an activist/leadership class), which uses that symbology for their own self interest, to essentially launch their careers. wrong, selling paper clips to white people for $100/month is excellent praxis
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Jun 28, 2017 12:14
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Condiv posted:i think blm is fully justified in whatever tactics they want considering how easy it is to get killed for being black in this country Not as easy as you might think, actually, despite a few widely publicized incidents. You should look up the statistics for the past couple of years, you'd be surprised.
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Jun 28, 2017 12:47
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rudatron posted:Really the whole anarchist-model of 'yeah man nobodies really in charge it's all consensus' is just as much a failure as the dnc is today, because what ends up happening in practice, is that the people who are most involved/invested/obsessive ends up everywhere, running everything, and that's the exact wrong type of person you want in a position of authority. Didn't one of them create the "more woke than thee" safety pin box.blm could benefit from developing some rules and regulations for internal leadership. So as to allow publicity whores like deeray get moved out. E. Beaten like a trump piņata. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 12:51
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Crowsbeak posted:Didn't one of them create the "more woke than thee" safety pin box.blm could benefit from developing some rules and regulations for internal leadership. So as to allow publicity whores like deeray get moved out. Counterpoint: the safety pin box takes money from white people and gives it to black people, so is Cool and Good
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Jun 28, 2017 13:13
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ISIS CURES TROONS posted:Not as easy as you might think, actually, despite a few widely publicized incidents. You should look up the statistics for the past couple of years, you'd be surprised.  why don't you post them yourself?
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Jun 28, 2017 13:52
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Counterpoint: the safety pin box takes money from white people and gives it to black people, so is Cool and Good Counter-counterpoint: if that poo poo had taken off people who wanted to harm minorities could falsify solidarity with a 0.10 piece of metal It really was the dumbest thing.
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Jun 28, 2017 13:55
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Neurolimal posted:Counter-counterpoint: if that poo poo had taken off people who wanted to harm minorities could falsify solidarity with a 0.10 piece of metal Counter-counter-counterpoint: it was exclusively a white people thing
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Jun 28, 2017 14:37
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Like I thought this thread was pro taking advantage of naive liberals
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Jun 28, 2017 14:38
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Counter-counter-counterpoint: it was exclusively a white people thing I'm not saying it wasnt hilarious and transparent, i'm more griping about how smooth-brained the people who bought into that poo poo were.
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Jun 28, 2017 14:43
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Yeah it was some real #resistance poo poo
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Jun 28, 2017 14:45
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Counterpoint: the safety pin box takes money from white people and gives it to black people, so is Cool and Good Counterpoint: The box isn't charity, and the proprietors are going to spend its proceedings on things that will enrich white people. It would have been a good charity project, though, but material solidarity aint woke. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 15:04
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rudatron posted:I'll cop to perhaps being an extreme/radical cynic, as is my nature, but I don't think ignoring the possibility for the sake of appearances, is anything but kicking the can down the road. At this moment I'm euphoric, not because of any phony god's blessings, but thanks to my ability to project motives on people.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:08
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it rules that rudatron dismisses BLM in its entirety with "those neurotic darkies must just have been doing it for attention"
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Jun 28, 2017 16:07
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Real Splinter In Thy Brother's Eye Hours, who up
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Jun 28, 2017 16:09
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Ze Pollack posted:it rules that rudatron dismisses BLM in its entirety with "those neurotic darkies must just have been doing it for attention" Some like Deray are. BLM needs to purge them.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:09
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people involved in a political movement's leadership ambitious self-promoters. in other news, sky blue, water wet. man sold out slightly faster than average, but thankfully his humiliation in the Baltimore mayoral election seems to have ended him as a serious force for anything beyond his own brand.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:13
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Condiv posted:sure, black people get murdered extrajudicially all the time, but they also get BET while white people get nothing, so i think it balances out \s White people have TBS. 
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Jun 28, 2017 16:28
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Crowsbeak posted:Didn't one of them create the "more woke than thee" safety pin box.blm could benefit from developing some rules and regulations for internal leadership. So as to allow publicity whores like deeray get moved out. There is no central committee to BLM, just like how MLK jr. was not CEO of civil rights inc.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:29
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Peven Stan posted:There is no central committee to BLM, just like how MLK jr. was not CEO of civil rights inc. Probably should be. So no more scam artists like " i ran at Bernie Sanders" try to hijack it.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:34
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Crowsbeak posted:Probably should be. So no more scam artists like " i ran at Bernie Sanders" try to hijack it. maybe we can put Debbie Wasserman Schulz in charge, she knows how to keep a movement nice and non-disruptive to Trump voters' feelings. this whole "direct action" thing really doesn't play in republican suburbia, which as we all know is the key to democratic turnout going forward
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Jun 28, 2017 16:36
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When are we allowed to start killing and eating rich people?
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Jun 28, 2017 16:39
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When the White House publishes DIY guillotine instructions, and the Food Network does a barbecue episode.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:40
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Crowsbeak posted:Probably should be. So no more scam artists like " i ran at Bernie Sanders" try to hijack it. It seems it would be easier to hijack with a fixed structure. Can't fully hijack an amorphous movement, and it's easier to organize around assholes when they aren't gatekeeping all the important structures.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:47
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steinrokkan posted:It seems it would be easier to hijack with a fixed structure. Can't fully hijack an amorphous movement, and it's easier to organize around assholes when they aren't gatekeeping all the important structures.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:58
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twodot posted:The reason you can't hijack amorphous movements is because they are structurally incapable of accomplishing anything. OWS in a nutshell.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:05
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