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OK, totally caught up now. All I have to say is: did NO ONE catch that Erika straight-up tore off her wedding dress to reveal a less-revealing dress underneath?? Bitch LIVES for drama
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Jun 28, 2017 06:55
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By the existence of tear-away clothing, this level of costume drama is possible for Furude Erika. What do you think, everyone?
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Jun 28, 2017 12:37
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witchcore ricepunk posted:OK, totally caught up now. All I have to say is: did NO ONE catch that Erika straight-up tore off her wedding dress to reveal a less-revealing dress underneath?? Bitch LIVES for drama The Detective is always prepared.
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Jun 28, 2017 13:00
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  Video: The Curtain FallsBGM: Engage of Marionette    Erika's blue bullet flew in a strange arc, became a wedge of the blue truth, and pierced straight down through the bed and the floor beneath. Beato didn't pull her trigger. However, she did quietly argue back with the red truth.  Oooooohh... The goat attendants gasped. It had appeared as though Erika had been defeated, denied by the red truth. For the goats, who couldn't see more than a single truth, it probably looks as though I've lost...  BGM: ALIVE  "...So, why don't I carry out the remaining twilights... and open the door to the Golden Land... If you are to disappear, then it should be surrounded by your golden roses...!"The fires of blue truth flashed at Erika's feet... and she loaded a blue truth bullet once more. That overflowing blue power was now making her entire gun burn with a blue flame... She wasn't aiming for Beato. She was aiming behind Beato. At the closet...!!  "Now that the bedroom has been denied, you've nowhere left to run!! Diiiiiiiiiiiiiee, Kanooooooooooooonnnnnnn!!"The five wedges of blue truth she released shot right past Beato's cheeks, hair, and shoulders... then pin-cushioned the door to the closet to gouge whatever human was inside to death...! The five wedges slammed into the door in a vertical line. In other words, On the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill. On the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill. On the sixth twilight, on the seventh twilight, on the eighth twilight... Gouge and kill and kill and kill...!! ...After being gouged by so many thick and sharp wedges, the human inside wouldn't stand a chance...  "..." When she proclaimed that she had finished, the five blue wedges piercing the closet disappeared. However, the many large, splintered holes left behind showed that it had indeed been pierced... Then, as though this had finished the ceremony that led to the Golden Land, the room that had been created around them... became countless golden flower petals and drifted away... By now, the duelists and the crowd of attendants... were surrounded by the golden rose garden of the Golden Land... However, the closet behind Beato remained. It stood there all by itself, like a coffin... Then, as though teased open by a dreary wind, the hole-covered closet door slowly... opened... Inside, was a human figure... That figure was covered up to the head by what appeared to be a grayish robe. Of course, that also had large holes showing that it had been stabbed into... Eventually, it became clear that this was not a robe, but a raincoat. If he had rushed here from the guesthouse, then there would be nothing strange about him wearing this into the guest room...   "...Wh, what the..."Inside the coffin of the closet, nothing remained except an empty darkness...  "Ah... ah..." "Kanon let Battler escape and hid in the closet... And then, he used magic to disappear. This is the witch's truth. That is all." "Th, this fight is OVER...!! Say no m-"  BGM: The Sin Oh, ooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh!! The attendants let out a cheer. Virgilia's group couldn't help but scream and shout in joy. The Seven Sisters jumped about in celebration...! Then, at the same moment the two demons proclaimed Beatrice's victory, the head's ring worn by Erika, who was slowly crumpling to the ground, and the cursed ring on Battler's finger... both burst. At the same time, Battler coughed violently. Battler... was starting to regain consciousness...!  Beato latched onto the coughing Battler in joy. Then, Virgilia, Gaap, and Ronove did the same. All of the Seven Sisters also crowded about him in delight.  "...Heh, heheh, that's a nasty trick... You sure something like this counts...? With a trick like this one, those humans will start complaining again about how this isn't mystery..." "No, it's a splendid trick! People without love cannot see that...! Battler-san... Battler-san... waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh...!!!" ...The rose of blood in Erika's chest wouldn't stop opening its petals...  "...Third degree conceptual denial syndrome. Use of continuous neutralizer impossible... neutralization only possible by an emergency approval for resurrection. The piece's master must provide approval for resurrection..." "L, Lady Bernkastel, give your approval for her RESURRECTION!! Lady Bernkastel...?! Wh, where did she go...?!" "Search request to ceremony guards. Find Lady Bernkastel...!!" "Understood. <All Chiesters, data link>. Search format...!" "...H, how cowardly... To think that a master... wouldn't watch her piece's duel until the end... Know that it is far too cowardly!!!"Erika, who was being held by Dlanor, had already realized that her master was nowhere to be seen, and she didn't feel lonely. On the contrary, she was relieved that she wouldn't need to be brutally scolded in the last moments of her life...   ""Gods and demons. Please pass on the story of her noble passing."" BGM: Grey Empty Smile I'm not anyone's piece anymore. I can finally... control my own role...!! "L, Lady Erika...!! Y, you mustn't MOVE...!!" "...Stand back... Stay baaaaaaaaaaaaack!!"When Erika yelled with all her soul, those who surrounded her were forced back and fell on their butts...  The toxin of her own concept being denied raced through her. Her vision was already starting to blur. At the other end of her twisted range of vision... were Battler and Beato, hugging each other and looking at her... Their expressions are firm. That's okay. Pity and sympathy would only make me look more pathetic. For a loser, that sort of expression... is the best...  "Lady Erika...!! The duel is already OVER...!!" "It isn't." "Not until the pair is separated by death." ""We won't let anyone disgrace her final moments.""The two demons grabbed Dlanor's shoulders and held her back... Dripping blood, breathing heavily, and with an awkward gait, Erika walked towards Beato and Battler despite it all... As the blood dripped from her, it became golden flower petals, which drifted away. So, as she walked, she looked both divine... and beautiful. The duel wouldn't end until one of them died. So, even though it had been resolved, it hadn't ended. Beato and Battler told the people bunched around them to step back, and they both walked forward to face the noble loser...  "...Erika..."  "...True. And I'd never fall in love with a normal woman." "Beato. No, I ask this of both of you." "...You wish for one final clash...?" "..." "...Erika..." "...Very well. We are not so boorish as to refuse your noble request." "Thank you."As her consciousness began to waver, Erika raised her gun again. She pointed it at the two of them. Beato also... raised her gun to point at Erika.   "If it's already resolved, what more could there be to argue about...?!" "...Erika-sama..." "Why is it... that when it has come to this... I can be of no... assistance...?" "...Watch until the end. That's your job as her friend, isn't it...?"Both sides silently loaded their bullets of truth without saying a word. The color packed into each barrel... was red... Then, though neither side spoke, did they both know what trump card the other would use...?  What's she saying? This late into the game... No one could imagine what red truth Erika had loaded...  "...Beato. Are you sure?" "...Yes. I don't mind..." "...I understand." "Let's at least pull the final trigger together." "...I know..."Battler placed his hand on top of the finger that Beato had around the trigger. "...Battler-san. I'm glad... I met you." "We will... be together... for all eternity." "Ahhah, so you have to flirt right in front of me!! It's pissing me off. You know, I really can't stand a teary farewell scene." BGM: None  "...That's a nice look. Married life with you would probably have been fun enough to make me vomit." "Of course. I'd spin you around every day, locked up in a world of pleasure that'd make you forget Beato-san right away!" "Haha. It's a thousand years too early for you to capture Battler's heart, little girl." "Ah, your face is just the cutest too. This is really the way for both of us to finish things!!" "...Come." "This is the final parting line from the detective, Furudo Erika, and my self-introduction!!"Erika spun around in a rondo, and with a magnificent and graceful motion, scattering blood and golden flower petals around her, she raised her gun.  BGM: Birth of a New Witch      
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Jun 28, 2017 13:24
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ProfessorProf posted:
Love you too, R07  But yeah, if it may be taken as red that there are 16 people on the island, not including Erika, then there's only one solution that works: Kanon walked into the closet... and Shannon walked out.
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Jun 28, 2017 14:12
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Bam. And nobody else is anybody else, either. This is the first time we haven't had weasel words like "no more than".
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Jun 28, 2017 14:39
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 tada omae mo kanjiteirundarooooo
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Jun 28, 2017 15:08
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I appreciate the droppings of fanart in this thread. Really digging Battler's vampire fangs.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:11
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I wonder why Erika can say she's the 18th human in red before she's contradicted. Maybe it's because she's treating it as a title rather than a factual description. Or maybe because the three lines (hers and the Battler and Beato truth) form a single statement in red.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:15
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human =/= people?
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Jun 28, 2017 15:16
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Finally, some confirmation. Also, really weird the same person is wooing 3 people at the same time.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:17
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resurgam40 posted:Love you too, R07 Yep, that looks like the only one that works to me too, though I'll amend it to Beatrice walking out. The problem here now lies in the 5th game, where the detective has 100% had a falsified point of view. There's no possible way around that at this point, unless Kanon or Shannon is actually one of the cousins Rosa, or Genji. Also, I'm definitely looking forward to a detective more perverted than Erika in the next game. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 15:18
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I'm fairly sure the rule is that we can be shown fake images as long as nobody explicitly contradicts them. Does Erika specifically address Kanon and Shannon separately in any of those scenes? Does she give a poo poo about the servants given that she's already zeroed in on Natsuhi as the culprit in the first ten seconds after the "murders"? If they're just hanging around in the background occasionally saying things, I don't think there's a contradiction. I did notice that episode 5 seems to keep them together pretty much all the time, even in the potentially deceptive images we see, which may be a result of Erika's presence. The detective's authority guarantees certain things; she definitely does not see two people in the room, for instance, but if you go back through and just assume that there's only one servant saying both sets of lines, does it really change that much? Did she ever count the number of people in a room including them and report the count, or otherwise indicate that she saw two separate people? (These are genuine questions; I can't go back and check right now.)
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Jun 28, 2017 15:26
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Cyouni posted:The problem here now lies in the 5th game, where the detective has 100% had a falsified point of view. The detective's - in other words, Erika's - point of view in EP5 was never falsified. There's no problem or contradiction, you haven't been arbitrarily lied to about this or any other detective power.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:29
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idonotlikepeas posted:I'm fairly sure the rule is that we can be shown fake images as long as nobody explicitly contradicts them. Does Erika specifically address Kanon and Shannon separately in any of those scenes? Does she give a poo poo about the servants given that she's already zeroed in on Natsuhi as the culprit in the first ten seconds after the "murders"? If they're just hanging around in the background occasionally saying things, I don't think there's a contradiction. I did notice that episode 5 seems to keep them together pretty much all the time, even in the potentially deceptive images we see, which may be a result of Erika's presence. The detective's authority guarantees certain things; she definitely does not see two people in the room, for instance, but if you go back through and just assume that there's only one servant saying both sets of lines, does it really change that much? Did she ever count the number of people in a room including them and report the count, or otherwise indicate that she saw two separate people? (These are genuine questions; I can't go back and check right now.) The problem is that assuming she has a passable grasp of This is especially true given the whole letter thing centered around them, so there is no reason at all that she'd miss a person so completely important to that.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:54
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Wild Alternative: Erika is a rapist, and rapists don't count as people.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:37
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Erika also has shown she's a terrible detective - she doesn't question contradictions that arises, instead just casting them aside, she zeroes in on a theory and twists evidence to fit it, and her motives are not justice, intellectual curiosity, or a need to finish sometimes but purely out of a need to be right and lord it over others.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:38
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More seriously, if we have to accept 18th human and 17 people as separate statements, there are a couple of workable theories. 1. Kinzo's ripe corpse counts as a human, but not as a person, so dead bodies are considered human. 2. "18th human on Rokkenjima" means "the 18th person to set foot on the island today." Which means the 17th human was the boat captain, but he already left so there's only 17 people currently on the island, Erika included. 3. My weird twins theory from earlier. Two humans, one person. Two bodies, one identity. #2 is probably the simplest but who knows if that counts for anything.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:56
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"...Heh, heheh, that's a nasty trick... You sure something like this counts...? With a trick like this one, those humans will start complaining again about how this isn't mystery..." Yes, and I see there were enough people who agree for the author to taunt them. Think what would play out in a real mystery. Erika doesn't say Kanon is in the room, she searches it, and inevitably finds Shannon.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:10
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I honestly figured that Erika's red words were the "truth" that she perceives, but where the hell was she going with that red anyway? I guess it doesn't matter since she's dead (again?) and may not be coming back.  
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Jun 28, 2017 17:12
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beato had been always saying it's a fantasy so why the surprise? Witches are real, Maria is right.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:14
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Fabulousvillain posted:I honestly figured that Erika's red words were the "truth" that she perceives, but where the hell was she going with that red anyway? I guess it doesn't matter since she's dead (again?) and may not be coming back. We already have proof that red isn't based on what the speaker believes, but what is objectively true. See "It was from Ushiromiya Asumu that I-*hack* *cough* *gag*"
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Jun 28, 2017 17:15
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I'm kinda fascinated by the "Even if"? Maybe it's more like, sure Erika is a human but she's not considered a person?
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Jun 28, 2017 17:17
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hosed up that the Ushiromiyas objectively died at least 4 times each and that magic is real to enable this.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:20
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I still am suspicious of S=K because of how hard it was pushed. So what are the odds that someone else is Kanon? We know Battler isn't via red, but what about one of the other people in the same room as Shannon? Or hey, maybe they take turns. This year, I'm Kanon! Maybe it's just whenever has the costume is Kanon. And really is Kanon, to get around the red that no one but Kanon can use the name.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:13
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Nah, the Ushiromiyas are dying a thousand subjective and fantastical deaths and it's hosed up that witches are claiming responsibility for the only real ones. It's like the ill people who falsely claim responsibility for murders while investigators search for the real killer. How sad do you have to be to seek that kind of attention? Witches aren't real, but they need help.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:15
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witches are real. If Battler just admitted that witches are real, they wouldn't be dying again and again and again and again.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:16
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Only fear kills again and again and again. Witches are a delusion that spreads suffering.
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Jun 28, 2017 18:18
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Only fear kills again and again and again. Witches are a delusion that spreads suffering. It's pretty clear that witches are a delusion that results from suffering. See Maria and Ange for the clearest examples.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:03
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wow, I can't believe we're 6 games in and there's still non believers. shameful.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:07
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ZiegeDame posted:It's pretty clear that witches are a delusion that results from suffering. See Maria and Ange for the clearest examples. I will accept that both are simultaneously true, as the apprentice witch of mackerel.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:12
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Tired Moritz posted:wow, I can't believe we're 6 games in and there's still non believers. shameful. Seriously. Have you guys just been ignoring us telling you magic is real and powerful and our friends for most of a year now?
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Jun 28, 2017 19:34
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oath2order posted:Seriously. Have you guys just been ignoring us telling you magic is real and powerful and our friends for most of a year now? You are witches and therefore not real, so you're easy to ignore.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:56
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Qrr posted:You are witches and therefore not real, so you're easy to ignore. 
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Jun 28, 2017 20:01
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Ah, the Battler tactic of "I'm telling you, you don't exist!". We'll get you yet.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:02
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Okay, let's reason this out. For Erika-vision to be non-falsified, Kanon must be in the set of {George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Krauss}, as they were 'dead' and therefore not attending Erika's parlour party. For the red in this episode to be correct, Kanon must be in the set of {Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo}. Looking at that overlap, one name stands out - George. I thought he was only an accomplice in the third game and possibly others, but perhaps I should be checking again. There are some major problems here, including how FAT he is to be appearing as Kanon in some scenes, and also others where someone else would have to be disguised as Kanon.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:09
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Cyouni posted:Okay, let's reason this out. For Erika-vision to be non-falsified, Kanon must be in the set of {George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Krauss}, as they were 'dead' and therefore not attending Erika's parlour party. For the red in this episode to be correct, Kanon must be in the set of {Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo}. Looking at that overlap, one name stands out - George. Y'know, this hypothesis is weirdly compelling, considering that it's still perfectly compatible with the mutual exclusivity of Shannon+George and Kanon+Jessica. Though also non-negligibly creepy because of the latter.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:23
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Qrr posted:I still am suspicious of S=K because of how hard it was pushed. So what are the odds that someone else is Kanon? We know Battler isn't via red, but what about one of the other people in the same room as Shannon?
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Jun 28, 2017 21:24
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No mention of the final witchface-off between Erika and Beato? That was glorious 
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Jun 28, 2017 21:42
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Confused Llama posted:Y'know, this hypothesis is weirdly compelling, considering that it's still perfectly compatible with the mutual exclusivity of Shannon+George and Kanon+Jessica. Though also non-negligibly creepy because of the latter. I took a walk to consider it more and check on information. The problems with George=Kanon are primarily in episodes 1 and 2, where Battler sees him and Kanon in the same place. The biggest problem with Shannon=Kanon is in episode 5, where Erika keeps everyone constantly in a group. To some degree, this can be resolved by Kanon being a construction of George+Shannon to spend more time with one another, but Knox's 10th is a constant interference in every theory regarding this. curiousCat posted:Before this episode, that was literally labeled a confession, how hard was it pushed? I'll point out that episode 5 had the label of "the culprit is already cornered", which was very incorrect. As such, trusting these labels seems to be in no way wise.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:58
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