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MacheteZombie posted:From what I've gathered, Marvel wasn't happy with some of Wright's choices, Scott was more of a sleazeball than lovable goof and a few other details. They had the script re-written and Marvel's story is they added more of Hope into the movie, created Pena's character and let Rudd be more of the lovable Rudd everyone knows. Wright felt their changes made it way less of a Wright movie and walked as a result. Kind of. The Marvel drafts were the same movie but with more jokes and more MCU stuff. The rewrites you mention came from Adam McKay and Paul Rudd and it was after Wright had left. Wright has been pretty diplomatic about it and said that they hired him to make an Edgar Wright film, but then when it came closer they wanted him to make a Marvel film. He did some rewrites but then when they took the script away he felt like he was being a director for hire and didn't see the point. I think part of the problem was that when Wright was hired, Marvel had this idea to release smaller movies that weren't tentpole pictures but used lesser known characters. Obviously as that juggernaut went on they changed their mind.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:05
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RareAcumen posted:I enjoy the Marvel snark by and large. It's pretty much what I'm signed up for. It's not like they're ever fighting anything out of their league like it's Dragon Ball Z. No one's ever been maimed so far. The closest they've got is Tony's heart stopping for a couple minutes. And he's been shrugging that off for two movies already. Eh, to me the best Marvel films are the ones where there's a real sense of character throughout. Like the big problem with Whedon for me is that he doesn't write characters, he just writes quip delivery devices; I can't recall any of his MCU stuff where a particular action or choice struck me as "Yes, this is something that only that character would do." Early MCU was extremely good at this; the later ones are just stuffed with so many required scenes and references that the story doesn't have room to be anything but a logistics puzzle with the barest suggestion of characters. Even the action scenes, while entertaining, seem focused more on "what clever stuff can I write with this superpower?" than "what would this person, given this superpower, do with it?"
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Jun 28, 2017 15:53
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DrVenkman posted:Kind of. The Marvel drafts were the same movie but with more jokes and more MCU stuff. The rewrites you mention came from Adam McKay and Paul Rudd and it was after Wright had left. Cool thanks for some corrections. I completely agree with your last bit.
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Jun 28, 2017 15:53
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Puppy Time posted:the later ones are just stuffed with so many required scenes and references that the story doesn't have room to be anything but a logistics puzzle with the barest suggestion of characters. Even the action scenes, while entertaining, seem focused more on "what clever stuff can I write with this superpower?" than "what would this person, given this superpower, do with it?" I'd argue that Dr. Strange did manage to feel more like the earlier movies since it was 90% a hero's journey. Likely though a lot of that was elevated by Cumberbatch's acting chops. Agreed on the rest. The transition point is also pretty obvious: right after Captain America 2.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:04
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Mokinokaro posted:I'd argue that Dr. Strange did manage to feel more like the earlier movies since it was 90% a hero's journey. Likely though a lot of that was elevated by Cumberbatch's acting chops. I didn't see that one; heard it was good, but Cumberbatch's face and voice put me off badly enough that I just don't want to see anything he's in.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:41
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Mokinokaro posted:I'd argue that Dr. Strange did manage to feel more like the earlier movies since it was 90% a hero's journey. Likely though a lot of that was elevated by Cumberbatch's acting chops. Dr. Strange is also well shot and paced. In addition all of the set pieces are interesting, make use of the magical powers in unique ways, and the final confrontation relied on Strange being clever and heroic beyond "hitting the bad guy harder". Sadly I don't think the mainstays of the MCU will be stuck in the rut it's in until they decide to retire the main cast for real and take the needed creative liberties to send them off with style.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:44
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Puppy Time posted:I didn't see that one; heard it was good, but Cumberbatch's face and voice put me off badly enough that I just don't want to see anything he's in. Cumberbatch is fine in Strange. The movie's problem is that it doesn't really have a lot beyond the CGI-wankery going on.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:45
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Ironically, Benedict Cumberbatch looks the most like a normal person I've ever seen him be as Doctor Strange.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:54
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yea as someone who's sick to poo poo of him and was not eager to see him in Strange he actually nailed it.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:57
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Mokinokaro posted:I'd argue that Dr. Strange did manage to feel more like the earlier movies since it was 90% a hero's journey. Likely though a lot of that was elevated by Cumberbatch's acting chops. Phase 1 was arguably better because 1) Aside from IRON MAN 2 it wasn't quite so concerned with linking everything together (It's why having Coulson around worked so well) and 2) The build to THE AVENGERS is handled pretty well. Once it reaches that and Phase 1 ends it just spins plates. I mean, remember when Thanos was a thing?
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Jun 28, 2017 21:00
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Dr. Strange is Iron Man with different (and very interesting) special effects, a unique ending, and no character arc. Worth a rental to see a few things that haven't really been done before, but also a lot that has been done before and better. Also say what you want about the Avengers characters being too quippy, but Dr. Strange is even more egregious in that regard and it doesn't even involve Whedon.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:16
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DrVenkman posted:Phase 1 was arguably better because 1) Aside from IRON MAN 2 it wasn't quite so concerned with linking everything together (It's why having Coulson around worked so well) and 2) The build to THE AVENGERS is handled pretty well. Once it reaches that and Phase 1 ends it just spins plates. I mean, remember when Thanos was a thing? I think he still is....?
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Jun 28, 2017 21:26
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Sir Lemming posted:Also say what you want about the Avengers characters being too quippy, but Dr. Strange is even more egregious in that regard and it doesn't even involve Whedon. Whedon's problem isn't the quips, it's that the quips could be switched around with no real change. Quips are fine, even great, so long as they're appropriate to the character(s) delivering them.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:36
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Quips are fine when they're not literally almost every line of dialogue in your script.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:44
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MiddleOne posted:I think he still is....? I think for all their planning it's the one part they've hosed up. The infinity stones still get mentioned and THE AVENGERS has a post-credit scene with Thanos and then...nothing. It's no wonder the next Avengers movie is a two-parter because they have to do a hell of a lot to set up Thanos as any particular kind of threat. I think ultimately Phase 1 felt like it had a focus and drive towards something whereas Phase 2 just has none of that.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:49
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DrVenkman posted:I think for all their planning it's the one part they've hosed up. The infinity stones still get mentioned and THE AVENGERS has a post-credit scene with Thanos and then...nothing. It's no wonder the next Avengers movie is a two-parter because they have to do a hell of a lot to set up Thanos as any particular kind of threat. I think ultimately Phase 1 felt like it had a focus and drive towards something whereas Phase 2 just has none of that. Guardians was very much involved in connecting Thanos with the infinity gems and setting him up as a big villain. I haven't seen Guardians 2 yet so I don't know if he's involved in that one.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:01
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My Marvel movie tier list for the 0 people who care about my opinions on dumb comic book movies: S-Tier: Guardians 1 and 2 A-Tier: Avengers 1, Iron Man 1, Doctor Strange, Winter Soldier B-Tier: Ant Man C+-Tier: Age of Ultron C-Tier: Thor 2 D-Tier: Civil War, Thor 1 E-Tier: Captain America 1, Iron Man 2 F-Tier: Iron Man 3 I dunno, I think about 50% of the films are good, and they seem evenly split between Phase 1 and Phase 2. I know I'm in minority on some (I like Thor 2 more than most people, I don't particularly care for Civil War, and I think Age of Ultron is pretty much made by Ultron himself being the most interesting villain in a Marvel movie.)
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Jun 28, 2017 22:02
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Guardians was very much involved in connecting Thanos with the infinity gems and setting him up as a big villain. I haven't seen Guardians 2 yet so I don't know if he's involved in that one. He isn't. Guardians 2 is a fairly self-contained movie, all told.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:04
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Guardians was very much involved in connecting Thanos with the infinity gems and setting him up as a big villain. I haven't seen Guardians 2 yet so I don't know if he's involved in that one. He isn't precisely, but it's very much a movie in his shadow.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:04
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Guardians was very much involved in connecting Thanos with the infinity gems and setting him up as a big villain. I haven't seen Guardians 2 yet so I don't know if he's involved in that one. The thanos stuff in GotG is by far the weakest stuff in that movie.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:16
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My favorite part of Age of Ultron is when the twins with a Jewish father and Romani mother work with neo-nazis because they have an irrational grudge against the American billionaire who merely made money by making bombs for Americans to carpet their country with and then have to learn the value of interventionism from basically an NSA agent
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Jun 28, 2017 23:07
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Mine's when everything's exploding and falling apart
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Jun 28, 2017 23:36
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Iron Man 3 is the best MCU movie.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:55
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CelticPredator posted:Iron Man 3 is the best MCU movie.
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Jun 29, 2017 00:22
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Beefstew posted:My Marvel movie tier list for the 0 people who care about my opinions on dumb comic book movies: I don't want to argue with your list but that's just faux-politeness as a social buffer b/c deep down I want to argue with your list forever and never stop. Namely Doctor Strange and Age of Ultron are too high, Thor 1 and Captain America 1 are too low, and I'm right you're wrong listen to me.
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Jun 29, 2017 01:13
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Also in what universe is Iron Man 2 not at the bottom 
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Jun 29, 2017 01:35
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Thompsons posted:Also in what universe is Iron Man 2 not at the bottom a universe where Thor 2 exists
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Jun 29, 2017 02:40
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ElNarez posted:a universe where Thor 2 exists 2 Thor 2 Film
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Jun 29, 2017 02:45
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Absurd Alhazred posted:2 Thor 2 Film Th3r
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Jun 29, 2017 02:46
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4 a Few Thors More
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Jun 29, 2017 02:49
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I'm surprised over how overall reasonable the discussion of the MCU has been so far. The comments of pretty much every Redlettermedia video even remotely related to Marvel turn into a "Disney is WORSE THAN HITLER" echo chamber pretty quickly.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:04
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ElNarez posted:a universe where Thor 2 exists Seriously I defy anyone to recall one scene from Thor 2 they remember. At least Iron Man 2 had Whippy Joe, The Dude With Whips
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Jun 29, 2017 03:08
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VolticSurge posted:... comments ... Redlettermedia ... HITLER ... There's your problem 
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Jun 29, 2017 03:11
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sexpig by night posted:Seriously I defy anyone to recall one scene from Thor 2 they remember. At least Iron Man 2 had Whippy Joe, The Dude With Whips I remember when Thor put his hammer on the coat rack.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:17
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CelticPredator posted:Iron Man 3 is the best MCU movie.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:18
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VolticSurge posted:I'm surprised over how overall reasonable the discussion of the MCU has been so far. The comments of pretty much every Redlettermedia video even remotely related to Marvel turn into a "Disney is WORSE THAN HITLER" echo chamber pretty quickly. I imagine their comments sections are looking a little 4chan-esque these days. It must be a terrible feeling to realize that the frogmen have made you part of their culture.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:18
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I really like Ant Man, Thor 1 and Cap 1 because they are goofy and even in this age of serious superheroes being serious business I can appreciate the need for a superhero movie that leans a bit more silver age and less early 00s in it's comic styling.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:I remember when Thor put his hammer on the coat rack. There's also a scene where Jane and some random kids rip off Portal by tossing a bunch of trash into a spatial tear until it suddenly stops being funny.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:30
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business hammocks posted:I imagine their comments sections are looking a little 4chan-esque these days. To be fair that's almost youtube comments as a whole unless you actively police them.
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Jun 29, 2017 04:34
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It's a mix of people just sprouting the same memes over and over again and the "DISNEY RUINS EVERYTHING" poo poo. The best way to get those troglodytes angry is to say something positive about either the MCU or Rouge One. Way they react you'd think you just insulted their mother.
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Jun 29, 2017 05:03
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