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wicka posted:Yes, and apparently the FIA thinks they should've done that, or at least been much harsher. Why is this confusing? It isn't confusing and I'm not sure why you think it is. The goal of a penalty is to hamper a driver for bad behaviour or breaking rules, it isn't explicitly to put one driver behind another. You can pick up a 10 second time penalty, drive the poo poo out of your car and not lose a place by building a gap. If you start deciding penalties are for reordering drivers, there is no consistency.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:29
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wicka posted:The stewards are not FIA any more than you are the CEO of whatever company you work for. Jesus Christ, how can you be so fundamentally ignorant to how reality works?  You're being a shithead on purpose now. Charlie Whiting works for the FIA and is the delegate for the FIA at race meetings.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:30
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Theophany posted:The goal of a penalty is to hamper a driver for bad behaviour or breaking rules, it isn't explicitly to put one driver behind another. It can quite clearly be both, jfc. Were you in the stewards room? Do you know their intentions? Regardless, it's immaterial. Vettel did one of the worst things a driver can do and he was obviously not adequately punished for it. The FIA agrees. Anyone who disagree has such a broken brain that I cannot comprehend it. Theophany posted:
He's not the stewards, first off, and if you don't understand that an organization can be displeased with the performance of their employees, holy poo poo.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:31
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Ban wicka, free wirth and tony
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Jun 29, 2017 12:35
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I don't believe Vettel intentionally ran into Hamilton. He was next to him raging and with one hand on the wheel and accidentally hit him. Still his fault obv. but not actually intentional.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:35
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Theophany posted:It isn't confusing and I'm not sure why you think it is. The Stewards are there because people didn't want "consistency" because consistency led to situations where drivers made a mistake, didn't benefit, but still had to be punished because the rules said so. The Stewards are there to make a judgement call: which they did. A 10 second stop and go penalty would have put Vettel back in 9th and left Hamilton in 1st (as far as they knew when they passed the judgement). Which is a pretty solid penalty. Unfortunately, at the same time their punishment was released, Hamilton had to pit because of his headrest and the net result is that Vettel came out ahead. It doesn't matter that it was Mecedes' gently caress up that made Hamilton pit because Vettel needed a punishment that would hurt, possibly make him think twice about ramming his car into another person next time. An 8 place grid drop does that, a net-gain does not.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:36
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wicka posted:He's not the stewards, first off, and if you don't understand that an organization can be displeased with the performance of their employees, holy poo poo. Holy gently caress chasing your twisting logic is exhausting. You said Charlie Whiting is not FIA which is objectively wrong. Moreover, he is the race director, has the delegated power of the FIA and is at races to enforce the FIA's rules as he sees fit.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:36
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Theophany posted:Holy gently caress chasing your twisting logic is exhausting. You said Charlie Whiting is not FIA which is objectively wrong. Moreover, he is the race director, has the delegated power of the FIA and is at races to enforce the FIA's rules as he sees fit. I never said one single thing about Charlie Whiting. Learn to read. Chasing my "twisted logic" would probably be easier if it weren't a figment of your imagination. My point is very simple: the FIA are not a Borg-like collective that lacks individual will. It's fully possible for the race stewards on the day (who are NOT Charlie Whiting, btw) to implement a penalty that FIA management deems to be unsatisfactory.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:37
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It's not FIA role to fix races for some idea of fairness. Lewis didnt win because Mercedes hosed up. Seb didnt win because he crashed into Hamilton and got punished for it. This probe is idiotic, unnecesary and it will be a trainwreck
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Jun 29, 2017 12:41
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DoctorGonzo posted:It's not FIA role to fix races for some idea of fairness. It is the FIA's role to adequately punish drivers for violating the rules.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:42
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DoctorGonzo posted:It's not FIA role to fix races for some idea of fairness. Lewis didnt win because Mercedes hosed up. Seb didnt win because he crashed into Hamilton and got punished for it. Trolling aside, do you honestly think Vettel should be allowed to drive into the side of someone, and in the press conferences deny it ever happened? e: Cos that's what we're looking at here. Now you can argue that Vettel shouldn't retroactively be given a DSQ etc but to argue with a straight face that he shouldn't be hauled up in front of a tribunal and made to admit his mistake and apologise is too much. NtotheTC fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 12:43
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hamiltons final position plays no factor into the penalty given. the FIA don't care that VET finished in front of HAM. the FIA cares because the penalty was later deemed to not be adequate, or the FIA has issue with the continued lovely conduct by VET, or the FIA has issue with him STILL pretending he never hit him. it sets a real wacky precedent if they don't address any of these things.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:57
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Only irregularity in my mind is that it was said that they were going to look at Vettel's conduct AFTER the race, but then once Lewis had to come in, they decided to issue the penalty then.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:05
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wicka posted:I never said one single thing about Charlie Whiting. Learn to read. Chasing my "twisted logic" would probably be easier if it weren't a figment of your imagination. Punishing him twice is double jeopardy and no legal court that isn't in a banana republic allows that.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:05
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1500quidporsche posted:Punishing him twice is double jeopardy and no legal court that isn't in a banana republic allows that. And where do you expect the FIA to purchase their dress pants?
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Jun 29, 2017 13:07
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wicka posted:And yes, if the goal of a penalty is to put one driver behind the driver he hit (which seemed to be the case to me), it probably should take into account the realities of the race. Again, shouldn't be confusing. You mean like in Valencia 2010 where Hamilton cheated, Alonso didn't. Net result Alonso got hosed down to 8th and Hammy's punishment didn't even cover the advantage gained by a long shot. Don't remember the FIA investigation into that one. Ofcourse a big song and dance wasn't made about it because it was the good British lad that benefited. This is some storm in a teacup poo poo and would basically be forgotten by Austria except the British media is helping their boy over the line again. Vettel had a brainfade, gave a wheels to wheels bump at low speed, and was punished appropriately.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:09
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1500quidporsche posted:Punishing him twice is double jeopardy and no legal court that isn't in a banana republic allows that. I agree, let's use the law system from a well-established country to settle this. That's a third strike for Vettel right? Give him a life sentence.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:09
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AgentJotun posted:You mean like in Valencia 2010 where Hamilton cheated, Alonso didn't. Net result Alonso got hosed down to 8th and Hammy's punishment didn't even cover the advantage gained by a long shot. Don't remember the FIA investigation into that one. Ofcourse a big song and dance wasn't made about it because it was the good British lad that benefited. What year is it currently?
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Jun 29, 2017 13:10
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NtotheTC posted:Trolling aside, do you honestly think Vettel should be allowed to drive into the side of someone, and in the press conferences deny it ever happened? Irrelevant, he already got his 10 second penalty and lost the race. The FIA is putting a circus. DoctorGonzo fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 13:11
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wicka posted:What year is it currently? If the past doesn't matter, then Baku was almost a week ago. The FIA can forget about it!
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Jun 29, 2017 13:13
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And its not like Bottas is crashing into Raikkonen and the FIA is doing something about that. VERY BIASED!
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Jun 29, 2017 13:14
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AgentJotun posted:If the past doesn't matter, then Baku was almost a week ago. The FIA can forget about it! lmfao "seven years ago and seven days ago are the same"
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Jun 29, 2017 13:16
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wicka posted:lmfao wicka posted:It is the FIA's role to adequately punish drivers for violating the rules. Jesus christ you cant even keep up with your own bullshit.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:19
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DoctorGonzo posted:Irrelevant, he already got his 10 second penalty and lost the race. The FIA is putting a circus. Solid use of the Vettel defense there. "If I ignore the question everything goes away!" AgentJotun posted:You mean like in Valencia 2010 where Hamilton cheated, Alonso didn't. Net result Alonso got hosed down to 8th and Hammy's punishment didn't even cover the advantage gained by a long shot. Don't remember the FIA investigation into that one. Ofcourse a big song and dance wasn't made about it because it was the good British lad that benefited. So you bring up an example from before there were race Stewards to prove that punishments aren't consistent? This is exactly why they bought in race Stewards genius, so the Stewards could make an on the fly decision that corrected the incident to as fair a degree as possible, instead of just blindly going "well the rules say give Hamilton a drive through penalty" and leaving it at that. NtotheTC fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 13:19
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NtotheTC posted:Solid use of the Vettel defense there. "If I ignore the question everything goes away!" Except for the fact that everything didnt go away, he got punished and lost the race. I dont know what you are trying to argue here.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:21
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NtotheTC posted:That's a third strike for Vettel right? Give him a life sentence. Dude has to spend the rest of his career in a 2015 spec Honda McLaren. 
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Jun 29, 2017 13:24
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I'm going to make this very clear. I'm still bitter about that time Schumacher took his drive through penalty on the final lap of the race.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:24
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NtotheTC posted:So you bring up an example from before there were race Stewards to prove that punishments aren't consistent? This is exactly why they bought in race Stewards genius, so the Stewards could make an on the fly decision that corrected the incident to as fair a degree as possible, instead of just blindly going "well the rules say give Hamilton a drive through penalty" and leaving it at that. There were race stewards in 2010. This is what Alonso said after the race - "‘It’s a shame, not for us because this is racing but for all the fans who watched a manipulated race. 'They were disgusted by the injustices that were happening. There was a bottle thrown on the track, which is not normal." and Ferrari ‘A scandal, that’s the opinion of so many fans and employees who are all in agreement. ‘The way the race and the incidents during it were managed raises doubts that could see Formula One lose credibility again.’ So very strong words and stamping of feet, yet nothing was done about it? Wonder if it would have been the same if it was Fred Adams driving for team British Racing Green. AgentJotun fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 13:26
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enri posted:I'm going to make this very clear. The Stewards saw to it that he brained himself on a rock though so you could argue that justice has been done. Not sure what their punishment for cheating Damon out of the WDC in '94 will be though.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:27
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AgentJotun posted:There were race stewards in 2010. Not operating in the same capacity that they're in now, where they look at other factors to make a decision, that didn't come in until Hamilton was in a Merc so max 5 years ago.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:33
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Ferrari Owns.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:39
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No the big change to stewards came after the 2008 season. The season our Lewis was robbed of a win and it was the darkest day in the history of the sport. Suddenly then it was critical to change things.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:40
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AgentJotun posted:Jesus christ you cant even keep up with your own bullshit. I don't give a poo poo what happened in 2010. Stop posting about it. It's of no relevance. So much has changed since then.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:41
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Lol at the idea that Vettel's punishment should be somehow based around Hamilton's headrest coming off that is beyond stupid. Ball don't lie.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:51
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Carth Dookie posted:Dude has to spend the rest of his career in a 2015 spec Honda McLaren. Wouldn't it be a more evil punishment to have to drive the 2014 McLaren? Knowing you have the best engine on the grid but still so far from victory.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:51
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Lol at the idea that Vettel's punishment should be somehow based around Hamilton's headrest coming off that is beyond stupid. No one cares about this anymore, either. Vettel intentionally hit a driver, threw a tantrum, and continues to lie about it. 10 second stop go is a pitiful penalty for that. Hamilton does the same thing and you're probably calling for him to be executed.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:53
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wicka posted:Wouldn't it be a more evil punishment to have to drive the 2014 McLaren? Knowing you have the best engine on the grid but still so far from victory. It's a toss up. I kind of like the endless dispair that no matter how good you might be, you'll never win a race and most likely not score points. I was going to correct you on the engine for the 2014 McLaren and I had to go back and check. I totally forgot they ran merc engines in 2014.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:56
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wicka posted:Hamilton does the same thing and you're probably calling for him to be executed. Well yeah, but mostly because I'd like him to stop being able to instagram his gaudy poo poo all over the internet. edit: whatever stops the R&B album being released IMO.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:56
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wicka posted:No one cares about this anymore, either. Vettel intentionally hit a driver, threw a tantrum, and continues to lie about it. 10 second stop go is a pitiful penalty for that. Hamilton does the same thing and you're probably calling for him to be executed. Sure, that's because Hamilton is a douche. I didn't see vettel ramming any other cars in that race, but you won't hear that in the mainstream media.
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Jun 29, 2017 14:02
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At this point, DSQ'ing Vettel from the season and having Lewis pootle around to a win every race is probably what this thread, nay the sport in general, deserves.
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Jun 29, 2017 14:04
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