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LogicNinja posted:Remind me why Conjurers needed to lose Battlesphere in their starting book and become a bad starting class again Because being a good spell, it was used too much. In order to encourage using a variety of spells the devs replaced it with something less optimal. That's the logic they made that change under. In practice I doubt it works out that way since all I've heard from cj players since the change is complaints about how much it sucks.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:46
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| # ? May 14, 2024 19:40 |
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Setec_Astronomy posted:After playing this game for over 6 years, I finally hit greaterplayer yesterday (not counting Gnoll; I only play stable): Grats. I've been playing online for 3 years and just got my 4th win towards greaterplayer... only ~23 to go.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:08
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LogicNinja posted:Remind me why Conjurers needed to lose Battlesphere in their starting book and become a bad starting class again
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Jun 28, 2017 21:14
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Internet Kraken posted:Because being a good spell, it was used too much. In order to encourage using a variety of spells the devs replaced it with something less optimal. I guess the Book of Flames should lose Fireball then (I'm just kidding devs please don't take FE away).
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Jun 28, 2017 21:55
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the real unbalanced spell in that book is conjure flame anyways and I would be fine with losing it if that book didn't have two worthless spells in it(throw flame, inner flame)
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Jun 28, 2017 21:59
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demonspawn with claws/spirit shield/powered by death/augmentation/boots of the assassin/cloak of invisibility/+10 rF plate
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Jun 28, 2017 22:56
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What would you suggest as low level alternatives?
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Jun 28, 2017 22:56
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Carcer posted:What would you suggest as low level alternatives? You could buff do so by making it blow up the hexed target(doing good damage kinda like disint) either instantly or after a timer(more spellpower=less wait time?), making it a way to take down tough monsters with low MR instead of just being a quicker and more fashionable way to kill monsters you would already be able to kill anyways. This spell can be level 4. Then remove conjure flame, and more sticky flame down to level 3(it still wouldn't be as good as current conjure flame so this would still be an overall nerf to the book). Replace throw flame with a spell that is a bit less accurate than flame tongue, and louder, but has significantly higher max damage with good rolls to emphasize the explode-y, burst damage nature of most of the FE spells. "Firecracker" or something like that. It could even have a gimmick where it explodes in a 3x3 burst, but is inaccurate via the shot landing 1 tile away from the tile you aim at(or the tile you aimed at with equal chance to the other tiles), making it effective against groups but unreliable in corridors and against single targets. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 23:06
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To be honest, I prefer Force Lance to Battlesphere ever since the change was made. I'm not going to claim it's the better spell or debate the rationale. I'm only going to argue my own bad taste. gently caress Mana efficiency. I didn't pick Vehumet because I wanted to fart in my enemies direction, I came for the giant fuckoff death spells. I always ended up amnesia-ing Battlesphere because it's such a loving waste of turns- I'd rather be tabbing if I wanted poo poo damage. Now Force Lance? I keep that fucker for all of a three rune game no regret. Knocking poo poo away from stairs or into clouds or just not getting mauled turning a corner? Yes, please. Bouncing monsters off of walls is more interesting as well.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:34
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Force Lance is definitely not a bad spell.
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Jun 29, 2017 00:39
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IronicDongz posted:the real unbalanced spell in that book is conjure flame anyways Teach me your Conjure Flame ways. Other than getting Hydras to walk through a 4 patch long strip of conjured flames I haven't figured out how to abuse it 
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Jun 29, 2017 02:35
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vulturesrow posted:Teach me your Conjure Flame ways. Other than getting Hydras to walk through a 4 patch long strip of conjured flames I haven't figured out how to abuse it PMush Perfect posted:Force Lance is definitely not a bad spell.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:11
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vulturesrow posted:Teach me your Conjure Flame ways. Other than getting Hydras to walk through a 4 patch long strip of conjured flames I haven't figured out how to abuse it I don't play FEs but conjure flame is one of the best spells in the wizard's starting book so I've used it a lot. There are two main ways to use it; -a damaging cloud that pretty much destroys everything in the early-mid game -a barricade between you and the enemy to keep them from engaging you in melee The first way only works on mindless creatures and ones with high enough HD that they think they can just ignore the flame cloud (they can't). You can just place a flame cloud right in front of you and stand still, watching the monster cook itself. If you don't have any defensive investment this is risky but frankly you should. It becomes a reliable way to kill almost anything willing to walk into the flame cloud in just a few turns. The second way works on everything else. You place a flame cloud between you and the enemy and they will refuse to come any closer. From there you can either make an escape or use ranged attacks to kill them. Just picking up a blow gun will let you pelt any enemy that refuses to cross for good damage, and you can kite them by repeatedly backing off and creating flame clouds.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:18
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once you get conjure flame, fairly early in the dungeon, you ride it all the way till after lair at least because anything that is willing to talk into it dies and anything that doesn't walk into it dies to flame tongue. death yaks die to conjure flame and sticky flame together, etc. Yaks and some other creatures like two-headed ogres have a random chance to walk into fire so if you give them a few turns they'll eventually do it and kill themselves. And because you can use those 3 spells for so long, you can easily train up some fighting/dodging in the meantime. I like to wear ring mail as FE, I stop training fire magic once it hits 8 or so and train fighting/dodging/conj. Once you get a decent amount of fighting/dodging you can go back to training more fire if you want or branching into other schools. I like to raise my str a little to get at least 10 for the ring mail to decrease penalties.
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Jun 29, 2017 03:20
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Internet Kraken posted:I don't play FEs but conjure flame is one of the best spells in the wizard's starting book so I've used it a lot. There are two main ways to use it; This applies to Wz more than FE, but you can force any monster into the first situation by making clouds on their current space (like Mephetic Cloud, for example). Regardless of whether or not the monster is actually affected by the cloud you created, the monster AI will walk towards you instead of waiting to 'escape' their current cloud. Unless the monster has a ranged attack, this means you can easily make them walk straight to their fiery death.
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Jun 29, 2017 04:36
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The third way is that many common packs of monsters can be split with a flaming cloud or two. Move back into a corridor, generally even with a large mob a space will present itself. Or if you have a combination of monsters that will and will not run into them, just cast one in front of you and back off. When used in this fashion it's as good for a melee character as it is for a mage. It's also a decent escape spell when you get low mana so you generally read a lot fewer blinks and teleport scrolls and quaff a few less potions.
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Jun 29, 2017 05:14
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Lesson learned, don't go to Pan without rElec (I should have swapped some gear for it, but so few things use elec I thought it'd be ok til I hit Lom). Random Pan lord zapped the gently caress outta me. Also been trying to do an Ogre Necromancer since it seems like it'd be strong but drat its hard to get going. Got one to lair several times but it always starts running short on killing power even if I'm focusing the gently caress out of my combat skills.
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Jun 29, 2017 05:37
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Indecisive posted:Lesson learned, don't go to Pan without rElec (I should have swapped some gear for it, but so few things use elec I thought it'd be ok til I hit Lom). Random Pan lord zapped the gently caress outta me. I'm kind of wondering the same thing except with rCorr right now. The way I've been playing lately is I'll just splat Op and Fe over and over and over because they are sub-optimal and bad and only bad people play them, and then for a break I'll do a murder-kill easy melee like Fo/Gr/Mi/Vs. I've been messing with Hill orcs and they are pretty murder machiney as well. I've never played them much because it always seemed like you had to take Beogh and I didn't want to bother the summon shepherding that entails. So instead I just didn't use Beogh, did an Oka start, and this guy is killing it. Face tanked V5 without having to heal, go upstairs, or even move really. Weird item distribution though, have done everything but Hell + Pan and still haven't found a wand of disintegration.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:03
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DEFE^Veh. Clearing Mine:2 when Veh offers my final spells...no Fire Storm. WTF? e: Not sure where to go from here. Cleared down to D:15, Orc is clear as well. Lair branches are Spider and Shoal (ugh). I'm thinking spider next. Shoals I think is doable? I have MR+++ and a reflect amulet and I trained up shields a little bit so I can actually cast all my spells with little penalty. Gear is unremarkable otherwise. Thoughts? e2: Guess I shouldn't have done spider first. 
vulturesrow fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 10:33
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Okawaru's very first gift to me, a MfTm with 10 UC and no other weapon skills.... the +5 executioner's axe of Dawn (weapon) {chop, Str+6} Thanks, buddy 
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Jun 29, 2017 13:37
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Hooplah posted:Okawaru's very first gift to me, a MfTm with 10 UC and no other weapon skills....
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Jun 29, 2017 15:29
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PMush Perfect posted:Time to switch to axes? 10 isn't that bad. What's the Mf Axe apt again? -2 
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Jun 29, 2017 15:38
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He's since gifted me a see invis hat, boots of running, some poisoned javelins, and a randart shield with rF+ rC+ rCorr rElec, and I found a book with hydra form, statue form, and dragon form. I think I'm just gonna stick with the UC. Speaking of which, I've never used shields as UC, but those resists mean I am now. How much does the lack of offhand attacks hurt unarmed Mf?
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Jun 29, 2017 16:27
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How much does the lack of offhand attacks hurt unarmed Mf? There are only four forms that let you use that shield, iirc: Regular Merfolk Punch-Form, Beastly Appendage, Statue Form and Necromutation. Practically not at all, in other words, bladehands melds that shield away. From a more mechanical perspective learndb on offhand punch and unarmed combat in that order posted:Does 5 + (unarmed skill / 2) damage. Got +6 bonus for blade hands prior to 0.16. Gets a +(claws level)d3 bonus for claws. Disabled in forms other than lich, shadow, statue and tree prior to 0.17. At max skill, an offhand punch can do 18 damage, while the main punch can do 30 (putting aside a lot of other factors that can increase that). This is non-trivial, it is 12% of an orb of fire. Unfortunately, it is also not especially reliable, needing to pass three checks. Think of it as an offhand fist brand. The main issue is the skill points you're putting into shields in order to eliminate the casting penalty that you could be putting into dodging and unarmed instead. At zero, it is Not Bad. It IS a workable option since the fist is mightier than the sword at high skill levels (base damage of 20 is easily reachable and top class among actual weapons), but it will remove a lot of the point of being a transmuter. Generally speaking, I might end up using an ego buckler to close the distance and then change forms, but that shield is a higher quality than I usually have to consider. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 16:54
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That is a really good resist shield yeah, but personally, I wouldn't get shield much past 5 (+1 SH), maybe 10 (+2) later. Of course, things change if you get a +5 reflect amulet and have shoals/spider, reflecting javelins/barbs/ood is one of my favorite things about shields.
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Jun 29, 2017 18:12
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I tried VSAs and I guess I don't really "get" the assassin start because right around the time I was about to hit lair I felt massively outclassed and there wasnt a whole lot I could do. I just want to be a Vine Stalker with min-delay quick blade so I can rapidly stab things to death.. Is that so much to ask? Help!
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Jun 29, 2017 19:15
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Be a sbl VSBe? You'll probably be god-gifted a sweet-rear end antimagic quickblade at some point. I mean, then you can't really do the hexes thing, but BiA distracted stabs should help make up the difference
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Jun 29, 2017 19:40
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PMush Perfect posted:That is a really good resist shield yeah, but personally, I wouldn't get shield much past 5 (+1 SH), maybe 10 (+2) later. That would be a mistake of humongous proportions considering a shield skill below the minimum for the shield exacts a weapon delay penalty of 1-2 at skill 5 and 1 at skill 10. Unarmed is given an additional penalty of a 50% chance of another 1 delay, so on the average at 5 shield skill an attack with 0.6 delay would instead attack at from 0.7 to 0.9. Let's also not forget the severe penalty to spellcasting, which is going to mean he probably will have a hard time getting even Spider Form off. And of course the 2-3 EV penalty to a race whose only good defensive skill is dodging. Also, covering a lot of resists means being able to wear more gear with a lack of resists or resist penalties, which is especially good with Oka who will give you a number of mixed-bag randarts. As far as the offhand punch, it's generally considered trivial damage as it does not get the massive base damage of the primary attack. It's worth keeping the offhand on a character who does not need the defense or who has poor apts and cannot afford to waste any xp. Merfolk do not meet either of these criteria. Additionally, being a Tm this Merfolk can simply cast blade hands if he wants an offhand attack. What this dungeoneer should do is beeline shields to 10 at which point the shield can be safely equipped given that Heroism will eliminate the delay and spellcasting penalty. At that point train until you can cast your spells and then give priority to getting it to 15 but not over something you really need. 15 shields means having more piety since you won't have to kick heroism as much.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:08
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That is a much better idea.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:26
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vulturesrow posted:I tried VSAs and I guess I don't really "get" the assassin start because right around the time I was about to hit lair I felt massively outclassed Non-Chei user spotted. There is a significant bonus towards acquiring a qb when choosing short blades so Oka is also generally a good choice as long as you prioritize gear for Dex and Str to take advantage of Finesse Bite, which I imagine has to be some kind of sexy nibbling on the ears until your target says HEY WHERE'S MY MANA
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Jun 30, 2017 06:29
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Araganzar posted:Non-Chei user spotted.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:40
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 demonspawns with claws 3+augmentation+some slaying gear+27 unarmed and fighting+boots of the assassin+sleeping target I believe 7 exclamation points means I did 573-1146 damage in one hit there. I also have spirit shield mut and powered by death so this has been... a pretty easy extended
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Jun 30, 2017 08:31
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I just finished lair. Peep that randart ring I just found code:
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Jun 30, 2017 13:37
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That's the sound you make when you find that ring.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:26
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It's Gold Dragon Armour the ring... And more!
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Jun 30, 2017 20:34
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Someone want to point me to a decent RC file download that's up to date for .20? Googlefu is failing me hard, but there's a slew of oddball things I'm picking up watching other people play Webtiles that are making me envious having just started playing the game. I tried skimming the official guide on RC editing, but holy cow it's a slog. My biggest bottleneck for improvement is just learning when to quit. I keep going on autopilot when I'm half asleep and should've gone to bed or taken a break hours ago and die to the stupidest mistakes constantly.
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Jul 1, 2017 04:18
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I've got mine but I'm not at the computer. I'll be home in a couple hours and can post it then?
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Jul 1, 2017 05:49
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Toadsmash posted:Someone want to point me to a decent RC file download that's up to date for .20? Googlefu is failing me hard, but there's a slew of oddball things I'm picking up watching other people play Webtiles that are making me envious having just started playing the game. I tried skimming the official guide on RC editing, but holy cow it's a slog. quote:# Crawl Init file The main thing is that it forces --more-- when uniques and other dangerous poo poo comes into view, defaults manual skill training to on, and sets autofight stop to a higher HP percentage(I know they raised the defaults at some point, but mine's still higher. Paying attention sooner is good for survival.) You can put a # in front of "fake_lang = grunt,dwarven" if you hate fun. Change "tile_web_mouse_control = false" to "tile_web_mouse_control = true" if you really want to use mouse controls for some reason.
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Jul 1, 2017 06:16
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That is way fancier than my stupid poo poo.code:
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Jul 1, 2017 07:00
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I've played for years with one goal, to get a mummy capable of casting firestorm. I've finally got there but I'm a bit at loss at how I should proceed. Any hints? I think I should be aiming for haste/controlled blink? Oh and seconding that conjure flame is the best spell in the starting book. Even if that was the only spell in there I would take that background. code:Exewu fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jul 1, 2017 10:19
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