|
seriously lolling at this trolling
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 05:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 21:26 |
|
|
Let's stop giving a gently caress to that silly fella, shall we
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 05:36
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:Yes I literally believe that every single person who opposes the government is directly taking orders from the CIA and that the Venezuelan national guard never uses violence against protesters. This is a completely accurate and believable characterization of my position that totally makes you look like a serious person who is generally correct about things. You might consider giving your own plausible account of events, then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:You might consider giving your own plausible account of events, then. It's simple the Reverse Vampires and CIA have teamed up to make all the food go away so the Light of Lights Maduro looks bad. I'm honestly amazed we haven't just seen this guy admit that Maduro makes Trump look stately and competent and thus has failed socialism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 10:51
|
|
|
Chuck already posted it, but I think this is such a shocking image it deserves re-examination. https://twitter.com/GabyGabyGG/status/880511838882025472 30 students being crammed into a freezer truck, getting tear gassed as the police closes the doors, letting them choke. Who's the fascist here? fnox fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jun 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 12:20
|
|
|
Just want to add in my thanks to Chuck for doing such an amazing job reporting in this thread, and to offer my best hopes and wishes to all the Venegoons and their families. Also, gently caress tankies
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 12:58
|
|
|
fnox posted:30
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 14:08
|
|
|
It's not necessary to continue this stupid line of conversation in the absence of somebody arguing for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:02
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:You might consider giving your own plausible account of events, then. A quick glance at his post history shows he's been at this for over three years at least. You're wasting your time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:05
|
|
|
Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:You might consider giving your own plausible account of events, then. Which events? The tear gassing of that building? I don't have any problem with Chuck's account. If you're talking about Venezuela in general: Bob le Moche posted:The opposition is led primarily by the middle and upper class, by business owners and the privileged; it is backed by imperialist interests including the CIA, and will assert its power over the country with the utmost violence and repression once it obtains it, secure in the knowledge that the US and international media will let them get away with anything and remain completely silent about their abuses, and that they have the full support of the most powerful country on earth and of international capital. This scenario has all played itself out many times before and in many other places around the world. The more you folks flip out and perform outrage about this, the more foolish and discredited you will look when what I wrote comes to pass, and people wonder why they ever took you seriously.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:26
|
|
|
Bob, it seems like you're here to lead the crusade for these broken south american savages and I personally want to thank you for leading them from the brink of disaster. Shine on, you crazy cubic zirconia. Or, you know, you could stop dragging discussion down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
Diqnol posted:Bob, it seems like you're here to lead the crusade for these broken south american savages and I personally want to thank you for leading them from the brink of disaster. Shine on, you crazy cubic zirconia. It's funny because I'm the only one here who's shutting up about how the "south american savages" should run their own country, and the only one arguing that my own country should not get involved.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
Your country is not loving involved. It should though, like all other nations in the OAS, because the Venezuelan people can't fight a dictatorship that is willing to openly murder them on their own. I'm not asking for military intervention, I'm asking for them to stop giving the National Guard more weapons.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 15:41
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:It's funny because I'm the only one here who's shutting up about how the "south american savages" should run their own country, and the only one arguing that my own country should not get involved. Well you could just as easily be arguing that your own country should be getting involved and aid the "south american savages" so that they can actually run their own country. Don't you believe in international solidarity? Should the laborers of the US not feel compelled to reach out in brotherhood and offer their assistance to the Venezuelan proletariat being crushed under the boot of their wealthy oligarchs? Better yet, you could stop talking about what the US should or should not be doing in a threat about not-the-US. Go to USPOL instead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
Even if the opposition was supported by imperialist intrests, it would still be better than maduros government. It takes a special kind of crazy to ruin a country so thoroughly. When the security forces start looting and stealing because they can/because they are not paid enough to live day to day, things are truly terrible. Pharohman777 fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:Which events? The tear gassing of that building? I don't have any problem with Chuck's account. If hundreds of thousands/millions of my fellow proles are allowing themselves to be led by the upper and middle class against their own interest, then it's a shame this attempt at proletarian rule failed. A shame, a terrible shame. It might be a generation before we get to try again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
If you're interested in the topic of how the PSUV manipulates Twitter to its advantage, El Nacional has a really interesting article on the topic today. It's in Spanish, but here are a couple of highlights:
In short, the article provides some raw numbers for a phenomenon that was already common knowledge: that the regime uses fake accounts and other methods of manipulation to get its hashtags trending on Twitter in the hopes of manipulating social media discourse, a move that is common to authoritarian regimes. skeleton warrior posted:Just want to add in my thanks to Chuck for doing such an amazing job reporting in this thread, and to offer my best hopes and wishes to all the Venegoons and their families. It's my pleasure. I'm fortunate enough to be able to devote a good chunk of my day to this. Thanks for keeping up with the thread!
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 20:37
|
|
|
Christ, when are these pricks going to run out of tear gas?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
There have been three fatalities from the unrest today. There may be a fourth, but the national media hasn't confirmed it yet. Here are the three that we know about :
The total number of fatalities since the protests began on April 1 is now 86 by my count. That's close to the official figures from the Public Ministry. RunRun.Es is a well-respected news website, and their total is at around 102. I think they're counting people who were killed "in the second degree", if we can say that, during the protests (i.e., they counted two people who were robbed on their way home after they looted a store somewhere in Miranda state a while back). A colectivo armado has been running amok in Barquisimeto for the better part of the afternoon. As far as I can tell, the colectivo is still active right now. News of the colectivo first broke at around 4:00 PM, after it attacked the Acosta Ortiz Clinic in the centre of the city. The militia caused damage to the installations, stole computers and allegedly threatened the staff because they were allegedly treating protesters: https://twitter.com/YourAnonVzla/status/880916632989835264 The colectivo was moving in a convoy of 4-5 vehicles: at least two pick up trucks, one or two SUVs, and an open-side truck. Here is a close look at the convoy: https://twitter.com/isbegsiax/status/880886599545999365 The convoy moved around the city, breaking into homes and generally terrorizing residents. In the two videos below, the colectivo drive away from intersections that they were presumably controlling: https://twitter.com/BrunoBorsi/status/880886333413240832 https://twitter.com/Gregdelalamo/status/880886729351319557 In the two videos below, you can see the colectivo coming to a stop. Some of the men jump out of the trucks and start milling about : https://twitter.com/lachinitaydios/status/880888572563394560 https://twitter.com/elimpulsocom/status/880887754678206464 In the video below, the colectivo comes to a stop. Two men jump out of a truck, and one of them begins to tear down a home's door with an axe: https://twitter.com/ReporteYa/status/880883067203854336 The video below shows a group of armed civilians firing their weapons alongside uniformed state officers. I'm not sure if the uniformed civilians are part of the same colectivo as above, but the video was recorded in Barquisimeto today: https://twitter.com/TITORODRIGUEZZ/status/880910966585741312 As you can tell from the video above, armed civilians will often attack protesters alongside uniformed state officers (I posted a video showing the same phenomenon earlier). You've seen how the regime will throw dozens, hundreds of soldiers at peaceful demonstrators and brutally repress them. Not only does the regime not respond to colectivo violence, it often acts alongside the colectivos. This is all to say that these regime militias play a key role in the repression of protests in Venezuela. In another bit of depressing news, a dump truck carrying discarded bones emptied its contents on a road in Cabudare, Lara state this morning. It's not unusual for dump trucks to empty waste (usually garbage bags) on roads in order to block traffic as a sign of protest. Here's the pile of bones, along with a bunch of National Guard soldiers who responded to the scene: https://twitter.com/maibortpetit/status/880870818632388608 A motorist recorded the following scene not long after: hungry locals picking up the bones from the side of the road: https://twitter.com/paolucci40/status/880868457058902020 BeigeJacket posted:Christ, when are these pricks going to run out of tear gas? In other words, the answer to your question is hopefully "soon". Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:There are four tear gas manufacturers in the world: three of them are in the U.S., and one of them in Brazil. Maduro gets his tear gas from the Brazilian company, which is called Condor. The Wall Street Journal reported two weeks ago that the Brazilian government had blocked Condor from selling tear gas to Venezuela. Wait really? Where do other regimes get theirs? Surely the Chinese and Russians manufacture their own?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
This is loving AGGRAVATING Goddamn sons of bitches seriously. I'm sick on my stomach seeing this and having to endure people supporting that sorete mal cagado called Maduro
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:Wait really? Where do other regimes get theirs? Surely the Chinese and Russians manufacture their own? Yes, I'm completely wrong about this -- sorry! Doing a Google search comes up with more than four tear gas manufacturing companies, some of which are in China and other parts of the world. Thanks for catching that. The bit about Venezuela buying from Condor in Brazil is accurate, though. Negrostrike posted:This is loving AGGRAVATING It's seriously messed up. El Nacional is now reporting that four people--not two--were killed in Barquisimeto today. At least one of them might have been a member of a colectivo. EDIT: National Assembly deputy Alfonso Marquina is in Barquisimeto right now, and he says that they're not able to get details on the two latest fatalities because there are colectivos surrounding the hospital in which the bodies are located. So it's possible that both fatalities are colectivo members. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
Lol I missed some fun!!!Bob le Moche posted:There is literally nothing I can do as a North American to help with what the Jewish people are going through, except opposing my own government's complicity in interfering with world politics. I have no power in Germany and no influence over the government there. I also know very well how bad things will get if the opposition gets in power, because again I am not a naive tool with no knowledge of history or of the realities of politics. When this happens the rest of you will either reveal yourselves as the communists that you are and openly support the death squads, or will suddenly lose all interest in what's going on in Germany and pretend nothing is happening like the conservative bootlickers that you are. Lol that article might as well read "Many poor Jews are too hungry to join Antigovernment protests." You sure choose a thread to pop in and show just how anti-imperialist you are!  And totally - the US is currently the most dangerous of all influences in South America - especially considering how the Russians pumped the Venezuelan Military full of more tanks, planes, and guns than any other army except Brazil - not to mention egged them on in a pissing match against Colombia. Man if we're going to talk about sanctions do we get to talk about how many times Chavez and Maduro shut down the border for no reasons? Or expelled innocent Colombian Refugees and turned to racism against them to promote mass hysteria in his own country against them? Have we mentioned Chavez spent most of his life funding communist terrorists over there? But nah. It's the gringos and the CIA that are the real threat to the stability of South America and the real creators of Imperialism - despite all the corrupt Bolivarian's going on and on about creating a South American "Bloc" for the past 15 years. Do we get to bring up Evo Morales personal Military Chief creating a corrupt airline to pad his pockets off of FIFA money that was run so poorly that the pilots didn't even know how much fuel to put into the planes and killed of an entire cities soccer team? You know Colombia is swamped with Venezuelan refugees too - and they haven't shut down the border - have kicked few if any of them out - and their in the midst of the same economic oil crisis. So what's the loving excuse? Chavez, Maduro, and his ilk are disgusting putrid excuses of humanity. I almost wish Colombia and other governments would finance opposition militias and do away them once and for all. Almost. I know better than that. I know that Chavez doing that exact same thing in Colombia only created misery and pain for Colombians and Colombia getting it's revenge would only create misery and pain for the Venezuelans. Man and it looks really bad when the most right-wing of nations in South America going through a economic crisis looks more stable than your "socialist utopia". ThisIsWhyTrumpWon fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 02:14
|
|
|
ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Lol I missed some fun!!! Are you OK? Your comparison makes no sense at all, and there are about a dozen ways the two situations are completely different that would immediately come to mind to anyone with a brain. Not to mention that using the memory of the holocaust to score some cheap rhetorical points against your political opponents like this is actually a super lovely thing to do. Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 04:55
|
|
|
Look man people responded to you with relative kindness and encouraged you to educate yourself a bit. Hopefully you are starting to see that the situation is not as simple and clear as your tankie brain makes you want to believe. I'm hoping you're a teenage and that is why you post the way you do. Take a hint, sit back, and learn something. You don't always have to vomit words and opinions, especially such disgustingly self-righteous ones, into every conversation. Especially the ones that you clearly (and by your own admission) know essentially nothing about. So just take this as a learning opportunity, turn it down a notch with the masturbatory and abrasive rhetoric; I'm sure people will engage respectfully with you. Thanks for those that are keeping the thread up to date. I haven't had much to add for a while, but having a good source of up-to-date news and a bit of discussion is fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 06:52
|
|
|
I had a tankie on my Facebook wall the other day who was completely shocked to learn that there are no broad sanctions against Venezuela and that the Venezuelan government is the one refusing to let food aid into the country. In between hoovering up articles from WSWS about the inevitable triumphant march of Communism he'd never bothered to actually... ya know, speak to Venezuelans or do basic research on their laws. He didn't know elections were cancelled. He didn't know they were starving to death. But he shut up and listened instead of pompously spewing his dogmatic creed, since he has a basic sense of human empathy and a genuine desire to learn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 10:42
|
|
|
As a Venegoon it sure fills my heart seeing armchair activists use my people's suffering as coinage to argue about their political ideology from the comfort of their home!
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 11:13
|
|
|
It's amazing how many things you have to choose to ignore to make an argument for the continued existence of the Chavista government. Bob himself was parroting that poo poo about economic sanctions on his first couple of posts, only that unable to accept that he's wrong, he somehow pivoted that into "seizure of US assets against a few government elites is intended to aid Saudi Arabia which then hurts Venezuela"...somehow. Bob said it was a democratic government that the US was planning to take down when Maduro has been ruling by decree since 2015 and has failed to hold two elections thus far without any real explanation. Bob said the parliamentary election was fraudulent when the only contested seats according to the CNE were the indigenous representation, who were actually unincorporated from the National Assembly following procedure, yet no new elections were ever called. Bob said it was only the upper and middle classes leading the poor to something that will only hurt themselves, despite how 80% of the population is poor and 85% of the population don't want Maduro as a leader. Bob said how a change in government will only bring misery and death, when thus far the government forces have killed dozens, only half of the population gets to eat 3 times a day, inflation is reaching or has reached 4 digits, and this is brewing into a refugee crisis that will affect the entire region if the government decides to entrench itself even further. And this is all because Bob doesn't realise that the Maduro government is in every way like the fascist, authoritarian nightmare he thinks an opposition government will be.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 11:24
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:As a Venegoon it sure fills my heart seeing armchair activists use my people's suffering as coinage to argue about their political ideology from the comfort of their home! Everything is always about the USA at all times, even when it isn't. Also Latinos have no agency.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 11:47
|
|
|
The only way you folks appear to be able to respond to me is by misinterpreting my words in bad faith so that you can then attack the strawman version of me you created. Meanwhile multiple posters have come out in support of intervention or admitted that although regime change would lead to more suffering for the poor, it would be for the best "in the long term", and this is being met with total silence. I don't want to take away from what the Venezuelan people are going through but the fact that you would compare this level of state repression to actual fascist violence just goes to show how sheltered and naive you folks are. You just have no loving idea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 13:51
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:I don't want to take away from what the Venezuelan people are going through but the fact that you would compare this level of state repression to actual fascist violence just goes to show how sheltered and naive you folks are. You just have no loving idea. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 14:14
|
|
|
I think it's unfair that Venezuelans get to disappear people and literally have drug gangs turned government hit squads shoot at people on video and it's fine but when we throw people from planes into the South Atlantic it's frowned upon. Bob do you have any recommendations on how to solve this brand/image problem?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:the fact that you would compare this level of state repression to actual fascist violence just goes to show how sheltered and naive you folks are. In your mind, how many more protestors do the government and associated militias have to kill on camera for the regime to cross the line to "actual fascist violence?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:05
|
|
|
Ghost of Mussolini posted:I think it's unfair that Venezuelans get to disappear people and literally have drug gangs turned government hit squads shoot at people on video and it's fine but when we throw people from planes into the South Atlantic it's frowned upon. Bob do you have any recommendations on how to solve this brand/image problem? This is all just a big joke to you isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:10
|
|
|
And my question wasn't meant to be trite. I am a US person and don't think we should intervene either, I'm just curious what line Maduro would have to cross for you to stop asserting that has removal from office by the opposition would be worse for the average Venezuelan than his continuing in power. In practical terms, I think the Goldman Sachs deal means that the US will be intervening when the bill comes due in 2021 and whatever happens then will be much, much worse than anything we've seen yet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:22
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:This is all just a big joke to you isn't it? It must be a big joke to you, as you don't seem to have a problem with Maduro establishing a typical right wing military dictatorship.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:24
|
|
|
Bob le Moche posted:Meanwhile multiple posters have come out in support of intervention or admitted that although regime change would lead to more suffering for the poor, it would be for the best "in the long term", and this is being met with total silence. People are loving starving Bob, they're dying of preventable diseases because of a lack of medicine, half of the country is malnourished, how can the poor possibly be worse off? How could a change to a democratic government possibly result in a worse situation? How many kids have to die for you to accept that Maduro is exactly the kind of person you decry?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
They've already stated that they don't want to get drawn into "details" like what things are actually like on the ground because those won't change their ideological belief about what is happening in Venezuela. Not to say don't engage, but do so knowing they've planted their flag ahead of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
Rhukatah posted:And my question wasn't meant to be trite. I am a US person and don't think we should intervene either, I'm just curious what line Maduro would have to cross for you to stop asserting that has removal from office by the opposition would be worse for the average Venezuelan than his continuing in power. Goldman has plenty of ways to get paid and none of these involve a gunboat diplomacy gambit, like something right out of 1910. The bonds, due in 2022, are not Venezuelan treasury bonds but bonds issued by the state oil company, PDVSA. PDVSA has plenty of overseas assets, like all of Citgo, and if PDVSA were to default, they would instantly be subject to lawsuits filed by the bondholders in every jurisdiction possible. This sort of recovery isn't exactly cheap or quick, but it will work and this is an acceptable risk/cost considering Goldman purchased 2.8 billion dollars in securities at 31 cents on the dollar. For Maduro, and more importantly Venezuela now and in the years to come, this deal means an upfront gain of about $865 million, which will be used to shore up his position, and all it cost was $3.65 billion payable over the next 5 years! And this is far from the only deal like this that Maduro has cut! Venezuela is going to be screwed for decades. Oh, and don't forget these securities are denominated in dollars.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 16:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 21:26 |
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:As a Venegoon it sure fills my heart seeing armchair activists use my people's suffering as coinage to argue about their political ideology from the comfort of their home! It's South America hugoon, it's not about ideology - it's about survivability and preventing retarded extremists from taking power and bleeding the country dry. You would of voted Kuczynski Over Keiko - it's not like Humala Made much progress.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 16:19
|
|