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SocketWrench posted:Oh, you mean like the multitude he already had done (even admitting to) and was going to court over as he was being elected? Yeeeeah, no. Yes, his powerful lawyers will laugh aside the multiple lawsuits about his financial emoluments and the special counsel investigating his collusion with russia will eventually award him a medal for being the most innocent man ever born, we all know this, we all know he will win the 2020 election (and the 2020 olympics) because he wins everything he turns his powerful hands to. But for the sake of people that aren't soaked in his healing light why not pretend that we don't know the outcomes of trials until they actually happen? The fact there is even open investigations at all is a big deal. Even if we know in our true hearts that strong trump father will eventually prevail like he does in all things he graces us with. It's STILL a big deal and matters that we have even gotten to the investigations stage, why spoil the ending for the non devoted?
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Jul 2, 2017 02:03
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JuniperCake posted:I think a big difference in the gulf of opinion, is probably where people live. I definitely feel a chord with the "nothing matters" bit because I live in a Purple State and I know a lot of people who do defend everything he does. Oh it's locker room talk, oh he's changed, oh he's an outsider not corrupted by lobbyists, oh his tweets are actually a calculated ploy. Just give it time, he'll go down as one of the best presidents in history! Yeah, I live across the river from St Louis, in one of many downstate counties that went Trump despite otherwise usually being Democrat, and the fervent ones will defend Trump up and down, while the "reasonable" folk will say "well, I may not like him that much, but he still won, so these obnoxious kids to to get over it and let him govern already, and we can discuss it all in 2020." Then, if I make the mistake of trying to point out any of the absurd and probably illegal things he's already done in office, they look at me like I'm the one who needs to be committed.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:06
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What happens matters. When protesting gets out of hand.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:08
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Pollyanna posted:Aw no. No. Noooo good kitty. Black kitties best kitties, brb gonna hug mine Don't worry, man, it's a cat. He probably muttered "I'll be back" before smashing a truck through the entryway and brutally murdering seventeen of thirty security guards.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:08
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SocketWrench posted:Whites Only drat you could tell it was Oregon just from those pictures?
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Jul 2, 2017 02:10
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Jealous Cow posted:Rich people take every penny they can and try to use it to get richer. Rich people don't give a poo poo about having more pennies as a means of further enriching themselves. They just hate the idea of those pennies going to poor people. 
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Jul 2, 2017 02:12
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Owl, while I understand that it's entertaining and possibly mildly informative to draw parallels between raving Trumpists and raving pessimists, this is getting a little weird.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:19
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 Ran into Rand Paul today
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Jul 2, 2017 02:23
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Don't worry, man, it's a cat. He probably muttered "I'll be back" before smashing a truck through the entryway and brutally murdering seventeen of thirty security guards. The very next day.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:25
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HPanda posted:The very next day. The thought he was a goner, but...
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Jul 2, 2017 02:26
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Owl, while I understand that it's entertaining and possibly mildly informative to draw parallels between raving Trumpists and raving pessimists, this is getting a little weird. Like there is literally an special investigation going on right now on his collusion with russia, there is public hearings about his obstruction of justice, there is multiple court cases happening about his financial stuff. Like it's totally possible none of that will go anywhere. But it's insane to act like nothing is being done about his crimes. Like the fact it's gone this far is in itself a really big deal. Even if the sadbrain assumption is he wins them all and wins everything that comes after forever.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:28
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enraged_camel posted:Rich people don't give a poo poo about having more pennies as a means of further enriching themselves. They just hate the idea of those pennies going to poor people. I just searched for more of those comics, and it's incredible how that exists
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Jul 2, 2017 02:32
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like there is literally an special investigation going on right now on his collusion with russia, there is public hearings about his obstruction of justice, there is multiple court cases happening about his financial stuff. Like it's totally possible none of that will go anywhere. But it's insane to act like nothing is being done about his crimes. Like the fact it's gone this far is in itself a really big deal. Even if the sadbrain assumption is he wins them all and wins everything that comes after forever. Let's say that the special investigation finds hard evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia, and that Trump ordered it. The fact of the matter is that Congress would still decide to do something about it. How likely is it that they would? You already have hardliners starting to mutter "well, collusion is not a crime" so that should give you a hint.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:33
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enraged_camel posted:Let's say that the special investigation finds hard evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia, and that Trump ordered it. Honestly it should be made illegal to even investigate him. Waste of my tax dollars if you ask me.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:40
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empty whippet box posted:quoting myself to point out that he has now pinned this tweet poo poo's getting real now.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like there is literally an special investigation going on right now on his collusion with russia, there is public hearings about his obstruction of justice, there is multiple court cases happening about his financial stuff. Like it's totally possible none of that will go anywhere. But it's insane to act like nothing is being done about his crimes. Like the fact it's gone this far is in itself a really big deal. Even if the sadbrain assumption is he wins them all and wins everything that comes after forever. I agree with your overall gist (and will sometimes cheerily respond to said raving pessimists with the amount of effort they put forth  ), you were just laying it on a bit thick there, is all I'm saying.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:49
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enraged_camel posted:Let's say that the special investigation finds hard evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia, and that Trump ordered it. Right now everything is based on media reports and conjecture, so it is a lot easier for the GOP and the right-wing media to spin everything. They can say that kind of thing right now because the public doesn't know the extent of everything yet. So they can get away with de-emphasizing it and saying it isn't a crime or calling it a distraction because the full set of facts aren't known and won't be for some time. The political consequences of pretending it isn't a big deal right now are minimal because basically nothing has happened yet. That changes drastically if and when Mueller announces his findings and recommends charges. If he comes out and says "our findings are that the President broke laws X, Y, and Z" then that increases the pressure on Republicans in Congress by orders of magnitude. Continuing to cover for Donnie at that point would risk loss of donor support, primary challenges, and potentially a further exodus of basically anyone who voted for Trump as a not-Hillary vote. They'd be risking having ONLY the super hardcore Trump base and no one else, probably for multiple cycles, while also massively motivating non-Republicans to go vote and kick them all out of office. It's not a given that any/all of that would happen, but I think a lot of GOPers would think it likely enough that they'd think twice about continuing to defend him. So I think it's fair to say that there's no reason (from their perspective) to do anything now, but if charges are recommended all bets are off.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:50
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BIG HEADLINE posted:He has a ~magic card~ in his pocket that can kill everyone on earth. Luckily, it doesn't actually auto-launch the missiles, and if he tried to blow up the world, I'm pretty sure he would be "discouraged" from ordering such a strike by his military advisers and secret service.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:50
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enraged_camel posted:Let's say that the special investigation finds hard evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia, and that Trump ordered it. Nonzero. I'd suggest nontrivial, but am waiting with horrified fascination like everyone else for more details. Edit: Mr Jackson did it better. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 02:50
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Honestly it should be made illegal to even investigate him. Waste of my tax dollars if you ask me. Don't dodge the question now. Do you actually believe this Congress is likely to impeach him? And even if they do, what are the chances that the Senate would vote to remove him from office? I mean I'm just curious about what types of poo poo you think can actually happen here. Sure, there are investigations going on, and lawsuits, but frankly, so what?
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Jul 2, 2017 02:52
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The thing is, I don't think Trump has anyone actively trying to stop him. Like, imagine Obama making any of these tweets. He'd have his wife and family and close cabinet being like, "yo dude, calm down, it's all okay." With Trump? Terrified wife; rich, spoiled kids; pussy media; 30,000 bots sending him <3 with every loving poop tweet he makes. This lunatic has the power to end the world at a whim. Is it so hard to imagine, at this point, Trump launching 50 nukes at North Korea in a few months? Deporting everyone with marshall law?
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Jul 2, 2017 02:53
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Fraction Jackson posted:Right now everything is based on media reports and conjecture, so it is a lot easier for the GOP and the right-wing media to spin everything. They can say that kind of thing right now because the public doesn't know the extent of everything yet. So they can get away with de-emphasizing it and saying it isn't a crime or calling it a distraction because the full set of facts aren't known and won't be for some time. The political consequences of pretending it isn't a big deal right now are minimal because basically nothing has happened yet. If this election has taught us anything, it is that facts don't matter. Not anymore. Look around you. What percentage of GOP's current behaviors and policies would you say is fact-based?
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Jul 2, 2017 02:54
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Aurubin posted:https://twitter.com/katiedjennings/status/881166394318094336 I refuse to believe this is a real man and not an actor on a sitcom from the 80s. mango sentinel posted:On a normal planet this is actionable defamation, right? Maybe in the UK, back before they fixed(?) their libel laws. In the US though? Nope.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:54
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enraged_camel posted:Let's say that the special investigation finds hard evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia, and that Trump ordered it. you'd start seeing a lot more incidences like the crazy berniebro at the baseball field. i don't think it's fever dreaming to expect that sort of reaction from an electorate just told their leader is illegitimate and congress decided not to give a gently caress about it.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:54
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galenanorth posted:I just searched for more of those comics, and it's incredible how that exists They started out as Bush era comics so really it's not surprising that they're again relevant. (Now imagine Trump's 9/11 moment)
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Jul 2, 2017 02:55
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pepito sanchez posted:The thing is, I don't think Trump has anyone actively trying to stop him. Like, imagine Obama making any of these tweets. He'd have his wife and family and close cabinet being like, "yo dude, calm down, it's all okay." With Trump? Terrified wife; rich, spoiled kids; pussy media; 30,000 bots sending him <3 with every loving poop tweet he makes. And right on cue we have hypotheses considerably more ridiculous than the enraged camel one I provisionally disagree with. Neither of those things will happen. (And I liked your first paragraph, too  )
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Jul 2, 2017 02:58
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Fraction Jackson posted:Continuing to cover for Donnie at that point would risk loss of donor support This would really be the tipping point for them I think. Like a lot of their voters just shrugged and pulled the lever after the pussy grabbing poo poo. If rich donors actually pulled financial support, and it's an if because lord knows rich assholes don't give a gently caress about corrupt governments that benefit them, that would be the death knell for him.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:02
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GreyjoyBastard posted:And right on cue we have hypotheses considerably more ridiculous than the enraged camel one I provisionally disagree with. Sorry for smashing your like for me :P I'm not from USA (Uruguay), and the guy simply terrifies me. It's all steadily but surely going downhill, so before it gets to any real, dangerous insanity, I'm putting all my money on the checks and balances stopping him.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:09
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enraged_camel posted:If this election has taught us anything, it is that facts don't matter. Not anymore. I'm not going to deny that a lot of Republican orthodoxy is basically based on cult-like belief that certain things will work "just because", in direct opposition to evidence to the contrary. But that's a different thing altogether. That works mostly because a lot of voters either a. believe they will someday be rich, or b. believe in Republican branding about the magic of the free market, privatization, "running the government like a business", etc. And so the GOP can support what they support for their own benefit and the benefit of their donors, without paying a huge political price for it. But if a well-respected Republican special counsel brands the President a criminal, and a big enough chunk of GOP voters accept that branding, and the GOP congresspeople stand by Trump anyway, they risk ruining their political careers and ability to make money off their connections. They risk becoming radioactive. The narrative becomes "why is Paul Ryan/Mitch McConnell defending a criminal president". That's not happening right now because we're only at the hints-and-allegations stage. When it becomes the possible criminal charges stage, the pressure to jettison Trump to save the party becomes greater than it is now. I don't have faith in the Republicans doing the right thing because it's the right thing any more than you do. But it's not like more than a handful of them actually like Trump. Right now he gives them political cover and a distraction from some of the more evil poo poo they want to do. But they're not loyal to him, and if charges come down, them launching Trump into metaphorical space to save their own hides is exactly what they will do if they think they don't have a choice. TGLT posted:This would really be the tipping point for them I think. Like a lot of their voters just shrugged and pulled the lever after the pussy grabbing poo poo. If rich donors actually pulled financial support, and it's an if because lord knows rich assholes don't give a gently caress about corrupt governments that benefit them, that would be the death knell for him. Again, it all comes down to branding. If they think defending Trump or being associated with a criminal President will be toxic for their assets, they will make it known to GOP officeholders. Right now, there's cover, because the investigation just started and there are no recommended charges. That changes the second Mueller releases a report and suggests charges. Fraction Jackson fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 03:10
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pepito sanchez posted:The thing is, I don't think Trump has anyone actively trying to stop him. Like, imagine Obama making any of these tweets. He'd have his wife and family and close cabinet being like, "yo dude, calm down, it's all okay." With Trump? Terrified wife; rich, spoiled kids; pussy media; 30,000 bots sending him <3 with every loving poop tweet he makes. I think you should read up on what the President's powers actually entail because you are almost as confused as Trump about them.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:13
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I think you should read up on what the President's powers actually entail because you are almost as confused as Trump about them. Enlighten me? I'm not an internet warrior on any of this stuff and happy to get schooled and educated. I assumed "Commander and Chief" meant he did actually have the one big power of starting serious, nuclear war. He commands the army and armed forces from the top, doesn't he?
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Jul 2, 2017 03:19
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pepito sanchez posted:Enlighten me? I'm not an internet warrior on any of this stuff and happy to get schooled and educated. I assumed "Commander and Chief" meant he did actually have the one big power of starting serious, nuclear war. He commands the army and armed forces from the top, doesn't he? Yes, the POTUS can in fact unilaterally launch nukes.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:21
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I think you should read up on what the President's powers actually entail because you are almost as confused as Trump about them. Dude's from Uruguay, I can understand how a non North-American citizen might not have the familiarity with our workings, and be rightly shaken. ^^^^^^ That is true. e- I don't mean to be alarmist, I don't believe that the military would carry out baby-man's anger nuke orders. KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 03:23
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JasonV posted:This guy knows state secrets. If the republicans finally do turn on him, is this going to end with him locked in a room furiously tweeting state secrets out as a final 'gently caress you'? "STUPID AMERICA has nuclear capable space plane but won't use it on ISIS. COWARDS!" I was skimming through so I'm not sure if someone already argued/joked against this, but no he's not. His poo poo brain hates reading and he only skims something to see how many times it says his name and how an amazing boy he his.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:25
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enraged_camel posted:Yes, the POTUS can in fact unilaterally launch nukes. I actually pondered going into this one in more detail and decided the thread has already done it to death, but apparently it's worth reiterating And I will let someone else do that Edit: also sorry Uruguayan dude for my rudeness Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 03:26
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pepito sanchez posted:Enlighten me? I'm not an internet warrior on any of this stuff and happy to get schooled and educated. I assumed "Commander and Chief" meant he did actually have the one big power of starting serious, nuclear war. He commands the army and armed forces from the top, doesn't he? Technically, the only thing necessary for Trump to order a launch of nuclear weapons (aside from the codes, obviously) is for the Secretary of Defense to authenticate that the orders are actually coming from the President. The SecDef could refuse, but the President could then fire them and find someone who would carry out the order. Near the end of the Nixon administration James Schlesinger, the SecDef at the time, actually gave subordinates orders that any such launch order from Nixon (as well as any attempt to, say, deploy troops to prevent himself from being removed from office) had to be independently confirmed by him. This was highly illegal but also the correct and good thing to do. I imagine Mattis would probably act similarly, though like with Schlesinger I hope it never actually has to be practically exercised.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:26
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Also the President can't just declare martial law and begin deporting people. He essentially can't just decide one day to become a dictator. And if Trump ever decides in a rage to launch nukes the military should humor him and pretend they did it while shoving him in a bunker somewhere to "protect him" from all the dangerous radiation that now pollutes the planet. No you can't come up to check its too dangerous just stay underground for the next 36 months. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 03:31
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Fraction Jackson posted:Technically, the only thing necessary for Trump to order a launch of nuclear weapons (aside from the codes, obviously) is for the Secretary of Defense to authenticate that the orders are actually coming from the President. The SecDef could refuse, but the President could then fire them and find someone who would carry out the order. To add to this, the President doesn't launch the weapons at all, contrary to popular assumption. He orders the STRATCOM commander to carry out a strike, and STRATCOM could, you know. Mutiny. Which isn't unlikely if it looks like Trump has gone dangerously nuts.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:31
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PhazonLink posted:I was skimming through so I'm not sure if someone already argued/joked against this, but no he's not. Yeah, they had to in person tell him the state secrets for him to understand them, and he immediately tweeted them out ( our base in Saudi Arabia ). They've since stopped sending him major state secrets, and he doesn't read the stuff he gets anyways. Trump has no idea what's going on in the USA.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:32
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I actually pondered going into this one in more detail and decided the thread has already done it to death, but apparently it's worth reiterating Let me clarify: it's not like there is a red button on his desk that launches the nukes. But he has full authority to unilaterally order the military to launch the nukes. The "nuclear football" and all, carried out by an aide who is always with the POTUS. Other than that, most details of the actual procedure are classified, for obvious reasons.
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Jul 2, 2017 03:32
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