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2house2fly posted:Your mistake is in thinking that the HORRIBLE TERRIBLE TRAGIC NO WAY OUT part is the ending. Fine, what should I call it then? I'm talking about the way it's presented. Even if the audience knows it's a fakeout, they keep writing these overwhelmingly "Oh no it's utterly irreversible!" bits and then "oh wait it's fine, you have eternity before you have to go back and die" or "oh hi, character from earlier can undo it all."
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Jul 2, 2017 04:00
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Also anyone that doesn't have the Unbound stories with Geoffrey Bayldon and David Warner as the Doctor should go and grab them while they're this cheapjivjov posted:https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who---series-10-special-offer-finale-week-12
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Jul 2, 2017 04:03
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The last series had some clunkers but Heaven Sent is the single best episode of the entire series and Hell Bent was a good sendoff for Clara (and would have been a decent one for Moffat as well) so if you average out it was a pretty good series. Series 8 was improved a LOT upon rewatching (the only episode I truly disliked was the loving forest one) and series 10 has been generally decent to good, so overall I'd say Capaldi's time in the role has gone well. I'm also a fan of Moffat's time on the show in general, with series 6 and the first half of series 7 being a bit of a weak link.CaptainCaveman posted:Fine, what should I call it then? I'm talking about the way it's presented. Even if the audience knows it's a fakeout, they keep writing these overwhelmingly "Oh no it's utterly irreversible!" bits and then "oh wait it's fine, you have eternity before you have to go back and die" or "oh hi, character from earlier can undo it all."
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Jul 2, 2017 04:10
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I think you mean:Box of Bunnies posted:
It's worth it for the Warner stories alone. Hell, it's worth it for Masters of War alone.
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Jul 2, 2017 05:03
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Also anyone that doesn't have the Unbound stories with Geoffrey Bayldon and David Warner as the Doctor should go and grab them while they're this cheap
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Okay, this episode was kinda the opposite of Lie of the Land. Reflexively I knew I shouldn't like a lot of the choices they made (having more modern Cybermen in the action scenes, showing the human Bill instead of the Cyberman for most of the episode, the Masters just sorta being a side-story, Bill getting de-Cybermanned, giving the Cybermen more conventional action-setpieces instead of leaning into the medical-horror from last week) but in practice it all worked really well, and I actually wound up liking a lot of the things I thought I'd hate. I got pretty teary at Heather coming back, although it did occur to me early in the episode that she might come back into play. My favorite little bit is that during the Cybermen crowd scenes, there's early-revival Cybermen mixed in among the Mondasians and current. The ones without the lights on the chest and just a circular panel. It was a great little way to show that they didn't shift immediately into the modern ones, there was incremental upgrades going on that we didn't see. Also, the post-explosion battlefield looking for all the world like a scene from black-and-white Classic Who was a very nice moment. Now... can somebody put me to sleep for about five months so I can see Peter Capaldi acting against David Bradley as Richard Hurndall as William Hartnell as The Doctor?
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Jul 2, 2017 05:39
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I thought this was ultimately quite a satisfying finale. I feel like the effect has been spoiled somewhat via having to DVR everything and race through commercial breaks (and BBC America not letting the episodes end properly because AN ALL NEW CLASS / ORPHAN BLACK STARTS RIGHT NOW) so I'll have to revisit it, but yeah, it was a good epic ending. That said, one season for Bill was really not enough.
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Jul 2, 2017 05:46
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Maxwell Lord posted:That said, one season for Bill was really not enough. Can we get a Water Lesbians spinoff to replace Class? It can just be Doctor Who but much, much gayer.
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Jul 2, 2017 05:51
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Missy dying without the Doctor ever finding out she was coming back to help him is tragic and the perfect ending to her arc this series. At the end she does the right thing and no-one else will ever find out. I think that's why she was laughing, the irony that the consequence of her doing the right thing was that everyone would always think she did the wrong one. I hope the Doctor finds out that Bill survived (in a way) however, otherwise he is going to have some mad survivors guilt. They were only there to test Missy and as far as he knows not only did that test fail but it got his two companions killed in the process. I don't remember if it was here or the spoiler thread, but someone made a speculation in the last couple of weeks that the episode would end with the Masters killing each other, with the regenerating Simm grabbing some Cybermen and going to start off the whole afterlife arc. While that wasn't explicitly established in the episode I do like the implication that is what is now happening, the early Missy leaving the ship with some Cybermen tech and an inexplicable urge to help the Doctor.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:19
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I liked her initial reactions to helping the Doctor, from the cuts to her being moved by his speech, in direct contrast with Simm's "This is the face that didn't listen to a single word you just said...", then her just taking his hand and saying "I'd like to... but no. Sorry. Thanks for trying though... " She tried to be kind about it. In her own way.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:22
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I must be taking crazy pills, because I completely disagree with the general consensus. This episode was properly terrible. It traded in the body horror of part one for a bunch of uninspired action scenes starring the same boring "generic sc-fi robot" Cybermen we've been plagued with for the last ten years. The Masters backstabbing each other was perfect and inevitable, but Missy's character arc ending with her dead in the dirt was loving awful. Moffat pulls one last "the companion isn't really dead, here's a ridiculous power of love ending that lets them go on adventures forever". And then to round out this hourlong shitfest, out of the blue we get a CapaldiDoc who suddenly doesn't want to regenerate, despite that going completely against his character. "I don't want to go" makes sense for Tennant, but Capaldi's Doctor never echoed anything close to that sentiment and using it here feels like a really cheap and unearned way to set up an uninspired and trite Christmas Carol rip-off special (again). It's an absolute travesty to waste Capaldi on this terrible writing. Thank god we only have to suffer through one final Moffat episode. Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 06:32
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Simm describing it explicitly as "our perfect ending" was a bit too on the nose for my liking. I tend to forgive that in Doctor Who though because they have to make sure the kiddies get it Hey, after reusing a bunch of regeneration lines, what callbacks is everyone expecting for Moffat and Capaldi's big swansong? I'm laying down some smackers on "life depends on change and renewal" (since it looks like it might actually be set at the end of The Tenth Planet) and "come on [insert name here, possibly Doctor], we've got work to do".
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Jul 2, 2017 06:35
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Whatever misgivings about the writing, you can't deny that everyone acted their little arses off for that one. I'm much happier about Bill's ending than Clara's, chiefly because Bill wasn't a smartarse, had been killed a couple of times already and missed out on girlfriends because of the Doc, so she deserved hers more than Claras. Nor do I blame 12 parroting 10 when his regeneration from 11 had been bad enough, it's taken him all this time to have a sense of himself before losing it again. Ditto for Missy really. So the intention of the writing was in the right place even if the mechanics were clunky. That said, I am dreading the Xmas episode because Moffat could easily choke it.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:36
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ewe2 posted:Whatever misgivings about the writing, you can't deny that everyone acted their little arses off for that one. Which reminds me of one of my favorite exchanges: Nardole: Remember I can still kick your rear end Cyber-Bill: You'll have to go back down to the bottom floor and find it first. Especially funny imagining it being said in her sing-song Cyber-voice. 
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Jul 2, 2017 06:39
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ewe2 posted:
I'm dreading it because then it'll be over. The era of the finest actor to play the Doctor working with the show's finest writer. Maybe when the time comes I'll just pop on Last Christmas again.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:44
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I liked the scene after the Doctor blew up the entire floor where Bill comes across his unconscious form and just breaks down, not only due to losing her friend but also out of fear that she, after all her insisting on death because she'd prefer it to going full Cyberman, is now the only thing left alive on that floor. Kind of darkly ironic, unless I'm misusing the word. Also she didn't get de-Cybered, she just became a different kind of monster. Her Friend-Ship ( ) didn't resurrect Bill, she pulled what was left of her consciousness out of it leaving it to die, and gave it a water body like hers.
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 06:49
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Me, for about 59 minutes:  Me, for the last minute: 
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Jul 2, 2017 06:56
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Big Mean Jerk posted:And then to round out this hourlong shitfest, out of the blue we get a CapaldiDoc who suddenly doesn't want to regenerate, despite that going completely against his character. "I don't want to go" makes sense for Tennant, but Capaldi's Doctor never echoed anything close to that sentiment and using it here feels like a really cheap and unearned way to set up an uninspired and trite Christmas Carol rip-off special (again). 12 has had a terrible time letting go of anything. He basically wasn't able to let go of Clara without losing his mind. Then there was the billion years he spent in the confession dial because he refused to give in and let go of a secret. He wasn't even able to let go of the freaking Master, and fudged the execution so he'd be watching over her living body for 1000 years. He did finally let go of River, but he procrastinated a bunch first. Not wanting to let go of those eyebrows isn't such a stretch.
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Jul 2, 2017 07:04
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I suppose this means Missy did have a TARDIS, though Moffat was nice enough to Big Finish to leave it ambiguous as to whether Simm regenerated straight into Gomez or if there were one (or three) Masters in between. Has anybody looked at Bradley's costume to see if they can tell when this is supposed to be set? Hartnell probably didn't always wear that hat and scarf IIRC. Is this Tenth Planet?
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Jul 2, 2017 07:07
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Astroman posted:Has anybody looked at Bradley's costume to see if they can tell when this is supposed to be set? Hartnell probably didn't always wear that hat and scarf IIRC. Is this Tenth Planet? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the Christmas episode takes place right before the First Doctor regenerates. There's a bit of a break between the Doctor bundling up and Ben and Polly banging on the TARDIS door, so Moffat can Big Finish it and fit in a story.
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Jul 2, 2017 07:18
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First Doctor gets a psychic impression of the future to come. First Doctor: Well I'm glad to see my future is in good hands... 10th Doctor and Rose kiss  2house2fly posted:Maybe when the time comes I'll just pop on Last Christmas again. God that episode was so good. That final shot of the Doctor and Clara racing excitedly down to the TARDIS like kids on Christmas morning... 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 07:19
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I'd like a series where the Water Lesbians hang around Café TARDÍS and go on cool adventures.
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Jul 2, 2017 08:02
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Argue posted:I'd like a series where the Water Lesbians hang around Café TARDÍS and go on cool adventures. "I know you're trying to order something, but all I can hear is ‘AAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE‘."
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Jul 2, 2017 08:46
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That episode was great! My only gripe was with the stakes at the end and with Missy - if the Doctor was just going to nuke the whole floor what help could Missy have provided?
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Jul 2, 2017 08:48
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MysticalMachineGun posted:That episode was great! Mainly the principle of the thing, I think. That she would choose to do the right thing rather than save herself. As for what she could do, apparently she once made a gun out of leaves, I'm sure she would think of something.
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Jul 2, 2017 08:54
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The Doctor Falls gifs - click to view                          
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Jul 2, 2017 09:33
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Facebook Aunt posted:As for what she could do, apparently she once made a gun out of leaves, I'm sure she would think of something. For all her faults and the strengths that both the Doctor and Nardole bring to the table, she's the only one in the ship who's been there before! The dematerialization matrix showed she could definitely remember some parts of this from Simm's point of view, if only vaguely, so she could still be a pretty decent asset.
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Jul 2, 2017 09:42
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A cute thing that I don't think I knew before - when Missy started singing in the early Missy episodes ("Oh Missy, you're so fine... "etc) that was actually just her messing around before the take, she had a habit of humming to herself and that one just got kept. The awkwardness isn't Missy apologising for not taking her capture seriously, it's Michelle Gomez apologising for getting a little carried away that time. Just saw an old interview with Gomez where she admitted that. Also apparently it was hard acting alongside Jenna Coleman because Gomez would just get sucked into her eyes... Mostly her words, although slightly paraphrased.
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 10:15
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I like that it looked like a dematerialisation circuit should. 
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Jul 2, 2017 10:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:"I don't want to go" makes sense for Tennant, but Capaldi's Doctor never echoed anything close to that sentiment and using it here feels like a really cheap and unearned way to set up an uninspired and trite Christmas Carol rip-off special (again). He even did both of ten's. Not just the last one. It was 4, 10, 11, 10, and 2, I believe. "Sontarans are (something) in Human History!" "I don't want to go." "I'll always remember... when the doctor was me." "It's started. I'm regenerating." And then two's is just yelling "No!" some. And if this is going where it seems like it obviously is, where one and twelve are going to help each other come to terms with regenerating for the first and latest times, this is some holy ground I really don't mind Moffat playing around in. And we've had years to get used to this actor as Hartnell to boot. This is loving inspired. Please, please don't blow it.
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Jul 2, 2017 10:44
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What surprised me is that in very recent interviews, such as in that latest fan show, Moffat admitted that last week saturday, they weren't even done filming yesterday's episode. Is Doctor Who filming always this hectic and chaotic?
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Jul 2, 2017 10:57
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Yesss that's the stuff
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Jul 2, 2017 11:08
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Cleretic posted:Can we get a Water Lesbians spinoff to replace Class? It can just be Doctor Who but much, much gayer. We know Clara is at least bisexual
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Jul 2, 2017 11:08
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Carbon dioxide posted:What surprised me is that in very recent interviews, such as in that latest fan show, Moffat admitted that last week saturday, they weren't even done filming yesterday's episode. I think they're making an effort to have the regeneration actually be a surprise, which in this day and age apparently means leaving it to the last minute (and probably filming four versions as well just to catch people out)
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Jul 2, 2017 11:45
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Masters backstabbing each other was perfect and inevitable, but Missy's character arc ending with her dead in the dirt was loving awful. Lots of good character moments that were acted the hell out of. A bit of a step down from last week but overall a really good way to wrap up the season.
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Jul 2, 2017 11:58
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The tragedy is that the Doctor thinks Bill is still a Cyberman, either dead or alive and alone on floor 507.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:03
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The_Doctor posted:The tragedy is that the Doctor thinks Bill is still a Cyberman, either dead or alive and alone on floor 507. He could check the video record of who brought him back to the TARDIS.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:20
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Bill and Heather break down in the cosmos, and Me and Clara run across them. The Doctor looks at his monitor and sees what looks like 2 girls waterskiing through space while being towed by a small diner.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:21
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I'm reading 12's desire to not regenerate differently than 10's. 10 wanted to keep on being 10 "I could do so much more" and "time lord victorious" and all; whereas 12 seems much more like "I just don't want to do this any more" and he'd be okay with keeling over dead if it means not having to keep traipsing though time and space with a new body for the umpteenth time.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:37
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The_Doctor posted:The tragedy is that the Doctor thinks Bill is still a Cyberman, either dead or alive and alone on floor 507. The real tragedy is Nardole got left on the ship, having to fight off an army of cybermen every now, protecting as many of the human people as he can, and then and slowly move up a couple layers.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:46
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jivjov posted:I'm reading 12's desire to not regenerate differently than 10's. 10 wanted to keep on being 10 "I could do so much more" and "time lord victorious" and all; whereas 12 seems much more like "I just don't want to do this any more" and he'd be okay with keeling over dead if it means not having to keep traipsing though time and space with a new body for the umpteenth time. Yeah. Twelve's entire motivation for a while has been that he's tired of being alone, tired of losing people either to tragedy or the simple passage of time while he keeps going on and on and on. And he's just now lost everything that's kept him going again; he couldn't (he thinks) reform Missy, he couldn't (he thinks) save Bill from her fate as a Cyberman, and while he saved the people of Floor 504 for a time, he can't (he thinks) hold the Cybermen off forever and neither can (he thinks) Nardole. Sure, none of that is necessarily true, but it's all true as far as he knows. He expected to die, and now, having lost everything that (he thinks) gave him a reason to live, he's faced with someone else, once again, walking off with his life. But the story's not over. I have some very high hopes and expectations for the Christmas Special, you might say.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:49
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