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Tezzora posted:i'm glad that the dudes who have spent the last half a year breathlessly reblogging louise mensch to an audience of increasingly exhausted facebook associates have found the time to get puffy about seymour hersh using Anonymous Sources I'm even more glad those sources turned out to be some guy in a military base in Syria and also complete bullshit.
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Jul 1, 2017 16:17
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Volkerball posted:The difference is that I take what he says with a grain of salt, whereas you just copy/paste what Blumenthal and co say and pretend they're your own opinions. The sorts of talking points you dabble in: that first responders are all linked with al qaeda, that the UN couldn't assign blame rather than wouldn't, that Aleppo is totally chill and the regime didn't harm a hair on anyone's head, etc. All of that has been used to justify an intervention by an imperial power on behalf of a dictator in a war that has now killed more civilians than Iraq. Where's the skepticism? It's not there because that's not what you stand for. You're not anti-imperialist, or a humanitarian. You don't care about minimizing deaths, or finding strategies that can give the Syrian people the dignity and security they deserve. It's simply a matter of teams with you. The American team is always wrong, and the word of anyone who opposes them is gospel. You're no less of a dupe than the people who thought Saddam was involved in 9/11. You just don't have enough perspective to see it. All you've done is become a useful idiot in support of the very acts you claim to be fighting. Socialist revolution is the only thing that can save Syria and unfortunately this wasn't it. If they were actually socialist revolutionaries they would've won, but liberalism offers nothing.
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Jul 1, 2017 16:22
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lollontee posted:I'm even more glad those sources turned out to be some guy in a military base in Syria and also complete bullshit. how strange you find them not compelling then
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Jul 1, 2017 16:22
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Welt has just published the latest evidence to support the Hersh's story:quote:A : Hello, Johnny, how is the United States Marines treating you! Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jul 1, 2017 16:47
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Who talks like that other than pod people?
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Jul 1, 2017 17:02
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So if I'm unwrapping Thug Lessons argument it's that instead of just opposing intervention we must also push the scale of evidence away from every fact that might also be used to support intervention. So when people are saying something happened TL is counter arguing that while it probably happened if you say it did then people will invade something.
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Jul 1, 2017 17:07
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Brown Moses posted:Welt has just published the latest evidence to support the Hersh's story: sy hersh should be quoting more wikipedia imo
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Jul 1, 2017 17:31
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Based on the last week he probably should.
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Jul 1, 2017 17:32
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Bip Roberts posted:So if I'm unwrapping Thug Lessons argument it's that instead of just opposing intervention we must also push the scale of evidence away from every fact that might also be used to support intervention. So when people are saying something happened TL is counter arguing that while it probably happened if you say it did then people will invade something. i think it's more like we should be skeptical of claims used to justify intervention as they are often misrepresentations
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Jul 1, 2017 17:33
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Brown Moses posted:Based on the last week he probably should. it's just so funny to me to see how nakedly partisan complaining about implausible, anonymously sourced stories is every day it's, at best, mediocrities sourcing anonymous intelligence community reptiles saying Trump kisses Putin and nobody whines about that because it flatters their politics. more common is insane nobodies on twitter calling everyone who disagrees with them russian agents according to A Source and these are treated with about the same level of suspicion
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Jul 1, 2017 17:38
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Tezzora posted:i think it's more like we should be skeptical of claims used to justify intervention as they are often misrepresentations It's just weird to pre assign motive to factual events.
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Jul 1, 2017 18:07
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it's now almost a month since the wise and powerful has blockaded the perfidious qataris, ha ha we got them right? they're probably starving and will come to us with their tails.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoifrqkrRpw oh... this is actually going to take years and the Qataris are digging in for the long fight? Ooooooooohhhh
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Jul 1, 2017 18:53
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remember when we justified assassinating an american citizen with anonymous sources and everybody was cool with that? pepperidge farms remembers
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Jul 1, 2017 19:31
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Tezzora posted:sy hersh should be quoting more wikipedia imo This but unironically because he's profoundly ignorant and wrong, unless we're supposed to believe that rebels have just continuously gassed themselves using gas they don't have and munitions they don't have during major regime military actions.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:11
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And the OPCW managed to miss all the evidence of the supposed 500lb laser guided bomb dropped on an AQ HQ during their investigation.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:28
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Brown Moses posted:And the OPCW managed to miss all the evidence of the supposed 500lb laser guided bomb dropped on an AQ HQ during their investigation. Evidence only matters when it tells you things you want to know.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:30
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All those hospital bombings? Also false flags. Why would Assad kill his own doctors when the international community is totally aghast at that? That was obviously the al-Qaeda Air Force trying to make him look bad.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:38
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Imagine if every time a car bomb killed a bunch of Shiites in Damascus, you had to argue with a ton of people in this thread claiming it was the Syrian government, who was killing large numbers of its own supporters to gain sympathy, because al-Qaeda/ISIS car bombs just didn't make sense to them, and you had to run a loving gauntlet of posts about the chemical structure of the explosives and the make and model of the vehicle.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:53
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Remember when right after the chemical attack, the moderate rebels bombed some refugee buses killing over 100 people, mostly children? Well, nobody remembers because the victims were shia and the bombers were the Good Guys, so the whole event was quickly swept under the rug and forgotten.
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Jul 1, 2017 21:15
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Wasn't that Nursa?
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Jul 1, 2017 21:17
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Sergg posted:This but unironically because he's profoundly ignorant and wrong, unless we're supposed to believe that rebels have just continuously gassed themselves using gas they don't have and munitions they don't have during major regime military actions. perhaps they did have the gas and munitions and "during major military actions" could be roughly applied to virtually any recent period i don't particularly care one way or another and nor have i seen any evidence but i do strongly believe that there are a bunch of weasels who just enjoy the sensation of getting puffy defending conventional wisdom stemming from the gaggle of vampire morons in the foreign policy community Tezzora fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jul 1, 2017 21:34
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I like how there's a whole argument about what happened and a whole secondary argument on what people might think about things that could happen.
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Jul 1, 2017 21:41
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Bip Roberts posted:I like how there's a whole argument about what happened and a whole secondary argument on what people might think about things that could happen. Welcome to Diktat and Dogma.
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Jul 1, 2017 22:22
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Volkerball posted:The difference is that I take what he says with a grain of salt, whereas you just copy/paste what Blumenthal and co say and pretend they're your own opinions. The sorts of talking points you dabble in: that first responders are all linked with al qaeda, that the UN couldn't assign blame rather than wouldn't, that Aleppo is totally chill and the regime didn't harm a hair on anyone's head, etc. All of that has been used to justify an intervention by an imperial power on behalf of a dictator in a war that has now killed more civilians than Iraq. Where's the skepticism? It's not there because that's not what you stand for. You're not anti-imperialist, or a humanitarian. You don't care about minimizing deaths, or finding strategies that can give the Syrian people the dignity and security they deserve. It's simply a matter of teams with you. The American team is always wrong, and the word of anyone who opposes them is gospel. You're no less of a dupe than the people who thought Saddam was involved in 9/11. You just don't have enough perspective to see it. All you've done is become a useful idiot in support of the very acts you claim to be fighting. Uh okay whatever you say dude. My interaction with those people consists of following them on twitter. Also Max published some amazing article on the White Helmets a while back that he deserves a Pulitzer for, and I'll definitely cop to lifting some talking point from that. Which is something you never do I guess and only have artisinal fair trade opinions.
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Jul 1, 2017 22:31
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So the U.S. imperialists ITT such as Volkerball who want Assad gone also supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq, correct? I mean, are you people (aside from being insane) at least consistent?
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Jul 1, 2017 22:35
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Bip Roberts posted:So if I'm unwrapping Thug Lessons argument it's that instead of just opposing intervention we must also push the scale of evidence away from every fact that might also be used to support intervention. So when people are saying something happened TL is counter arguing that while it probably happened if you say it did then people will invade something. It's more that like, it actually matters whether the allegations have been proven or not. I'm not just raising doubts for the sake of it. I don't think it's a crazy position to say, "We should know whether allegations against the Assad regime are genuine before we act on those allegations"!
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Jul 1, 2017 22:41
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Sergg posted:Imagine if every time a car bomb killed a bunch of Shiites in Damascus, you had to argue with a ton of people in this thread claiming it was the Syrian government, who was killing large numbers of its own supporters to gain sympathy, because al-Qaeda/ISIS car bombs just didn't make sense to them, and you had to run a loving gauntlet of posts about the chemical structure of the explosives and the make and model of the vehicle. It's funny you bring this up because Volkerball actually HAS posted articles claiming that a car bomb which killed a bunch of Shiites in Damascus was an Assad regime false flag. People got really mad when I said the source was a bullshit propaganda outlet too!
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Jul 1, 2017 22:43
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RedSpider posted:So the U.S. imperialists ITT such as Volkerball who want Assad gone also supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq, correct? I mean, are you people (aside from being insane) at least consistent? Could you maybe get someone not stupid to rewrite your post so it's at least semi-intelligent?
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Jul 1, 2017 22:46
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Al-Saqr posted:it's now almost a month since the wise and powerful has blockaded the perfidious qataris, ha ha we got them right? they're probably starving and will come to us with their tails.... Grain suppliers from China? I hope the Qataris like heavy metals in their milk.
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Jul 1, 2017 22:59
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There's an implicit assumption that Trump would decide to attack Syria more if there was definitive proof of chemical weapons attacks instead of beyond a reasonable doubt of chemical attacks. Trump wouldn't care either way. He's so mad about not winning the popular vote that he's willing to waste millions of federal dollars and man hours to prove that he really did win the popular vote. If he wants to escalate in Syria his administration will find a justification.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:01
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Tezzora posted:i'm glad that the dudes who have spent the last half a year breathlessly reblogging louise mensch to an audience of increasingly exhausted facebook associates have found the time to get puffy about seymour hersh using Anonymous Sources Nice strawman. But seriously, don't do it again.
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Jul 2, 2017 00:49
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A Bag of Milk posted:Nice strawman. But seriously, don't do it again. Remember that Tezzor is the guy who thinks cops can only be scary if they wear black clothes. That's the level of intellect he's got to work with when he tries to understand difficult things like "Syria" and "evidence". I mean it's self-evident by how he fervently believes whatever idiocy Mr. Hersh just dropped.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:55
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Thug Lessons posted:It's funny you bring this up because Volkerball actually HAS posted articles claiming that a car bomb which killed a bunch of Shiites in Damascus was an Assad regime false flag. People got really mad when I said the source was a bullshit propaganda outlet too! That sounds compelling but what make and model of vehicle was it? I'll admit, your case sounds convincing, but would you mind if I argued in bad faith for like a page and then peppered it with personal ad hominems?
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Jul 2, 2017 03:47
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Good Lord what happened to my beloved middle East thread? No one's talked about actual things happening in the actual middle East for like two pages. No one cares what stupid poo poo some goon said ages ago. No one cares whose Twitter account people follow. Post actual content or shut the gently caress up. So, back to Syria, the regime/rebels/ISIS battle royale is still ongoing near the Golan, which naturally means more errant mortars and more Israeli bombing. Also the conflict map had a report of another regime chlorine attack, but I'm waiting for a legit source on that one. Oh, and this happened. https://mobile.twitter.com/howardamos/status/881075120055480320
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Jul 2, 2017 04:48
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RedSpider posted:So the U.S. imperialists ITT such as Volkerball who want Assad gone also supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq, correct? I mean, are you people (aside from being insane) at least consistent? Oh good, welcome to the thread.
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Jul 2, 2017 04:59
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Brown Moses posted:Welt has just published the latest evidence to support the Hersh's story: You're forgetting the weird "The Russian military is really strong!" stuff that sounds like it was written by a Youtube commentor.
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Jul 2, 2017 05:02
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fishmech posted:Remember that Tezzor is the guy who thinks cops can only be scary if they wear black clothes. That's the level of intellect he's got to work with when he tries to understand difficult things like "Syria" and "evidence". this is of course false. i believe that riot cops wear black because it looks intimidating (which as a sidebar for the audience was a claim that people were inexplicably spitting mad about believe it or not) not that cops can only be intimidating if they are wearing black. i also don't particularly believe what hersh says, let alone "fervently." i do find it funny that the piety about anonymous sources vanishes like a butterfly fart the instant they say something you want to hear or validate american hegemony (but i repeat myself) the fact that they made a smug ugly weasel like you the mod of an election forum to autistically shriek down criticism of abuela really says it all
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Jul 2, 2017 05:08
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RedSpider posted:So the U.S. imperialists ITT such as Volkerball who want Assad gone also supported the 2003 invasion of Iraq, correct? I mean, are you people (aside from being insane) at least consistent? oh yes, they're all very very consistent. most of the old timers supported iraq in the same ways for the same reasons and responded to criticism in the same ways with the same reasons. however, iraq was a relatively long time ago, so you'll be glad to know they all also supported the libyan intervention that went so well in the same ways for the same reasons
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Jul 2, 2017 05:13
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basically if you want to read a bunch of bloodthirsty pompous idiot nerds who have been wrong about everything for at least the last 15 years because the smart people said they were good, D&D is your one stop shop
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Jul 2, 2017 05:15
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Pretty sure Volkerball was a kid when the forever war started. I know I was. I was still the obnoxious 8th grader saying Bush was full of poo poo about wmd though. Either I've gotten a lot dumber since then, or the situation in Syria is pretty different because I don't really doubt for an instant that Assad has and has used Sarin. That doesn't mean I'm pro-intervention though. You can denounce crimes against humanity without calling for war just like you can argue against intervention without apologizing for war criminals. Anyone who doesn't respect those distinctions can gently caress right off.
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Jul 2, 2017 05:19
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