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Just bought a '17 Subaru Forester. Sticker price $26,106, invoice price $24,095, selling price $23,250! Must have caught someone near their sales goal, it was the by far the best offer in town compared to similarly equipped units. And no surprise add-ons or dealer fees.
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Jun 30, 2017 05:37
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Probably clearing '17 stock to make room for new '18s. Not that that's a bad thing since I don't think there are any significant changes for the Forester between MY 17 and 18.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:04
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This may be terrible advice but if it we're me I'd buy the tallest all terrain tires that would clear the fenders and a bash plate under the engine and go wild. Meet up with some off-roaders to learn some driving tricks and maybe a bucket of retrieval gear incase you get badly stuck. Your car is nearing beater age and mileage anyhow so squeeze every bit of life from it.
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Jun 30, 2017 06:09
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I've taken my vibe off roading/mudding a fair amount and while it's just a Toyota corolla at heart it really can do more than you think it can if you treat it like poo poo
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Jun 30, 2017 12:36
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I'm not in the market and this car is completely unappealing to me, but could someone why used Leafs are so ridiculously cheap? example: https://www.carmax.com/car/14338667 It just strikes me as a little crazy that you can get a new-ish fully electric car with low miles and a decent warranty for less than $14k (I think Carmax's 125k warranty is like $3000). Bouillon Rube fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 19:20
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Rock My Socks! posted:I'm not in the market and this car is completely unappealing to me, but could someone why used Leafs are so ridiculously cheap? All electric cars including series hybrids depreciate off a cliff, so that strikes me as a terrible deal. 2011s have a smaller battery and as the battery ages you probably only have ~50 miles range on it. For reference, a friend of mine just picked up a 2013 Chevy Volt for $9k. I'd call a Volt a better car than a Leaf in pretty much every way, and the smaller battery in the Volt means it has less to lose.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:23
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Twerk from Home posted:All electric cars including series hybrids depreciate off a cliff, so that strikes me as a terrible deal. 2011s have a smaller battery and as the battery ages you probably only have ~50 miles range on it. For reference, a friend of mine just picked up a 2013 Chevy Volt for $9k. I'd call a Volt a better car than a Leaf in pretty much every way, and the smaller battery in the Volt means it has less to lose. I agree that the Volt is probably a better car than the Leaf, from what I heard, but the logic that a smaller battery somehow mitigates the problem of the car's range diminishing over time is a fallacy. With a smaller battery, you put more wear on the individual cells for the same amount of travel, assuming that the electronics in the car optimize it so that the wear over time is distributed. For example, compare the situation where you have two electric cars, one with double the range from the other. Your commute back and forth is almost exactly the range of the car with the smaller battery (setting aside the stupidity of driving a car that barely gets you to work and back, for now). Every day you put a full cycle of wear on the car with the smaller battery, but it takes you two days to put a full cycle of wear on the car with the bigger battery. Battery capacity loss isn't linear, so you can keep a larger percentage of your full range for a longer time with the big battery car. I feel like buying a used electric car is just asking for trouble at this point in the technology's life, but I'd love to see some actual stats on how long the batteries last and how much it costs to replace them, etc. We are actually kind of considering getting an electric car at some point since my wife's work has free power outlets for them, but we wouldn't be able to afford a new one any time soon.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:32
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Right, I get all that, but since he Carmax warranty supposedly covers everything couldn't you just get the bagteries replaced for the $100 deductible? E: nevermind, I just figured out that batteries are specifically excluded from their warranty.
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Jun 30, 2017 21:23
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The state of the ICE art is pretty static. A 2013 Sentra is basically indistinguishable in terms of features and performance from a 2017 Sentra from a 2010 Sentra. On the other hand, a 2010 Leaf is not as good as a 2013 (vastly improved HVAC system improving range) which is not as good as a 2016 (larger battery capacity from 24kWh to 30), which is not nearly as good as the Ioniq or the Bolt. The changes in technology are extremely rapid and mean that used vehicles are not competitive with new ones on a features and functionality basis. Also, many electric cars are leased as compliance vehicles for absurdly subsidized rates. This subsidy drives down resale values much like heavy discounting drives down domestic vehicle resale. You can get an off lease Fiat 500e in california for like six grand or some poo poo. Sergio was all on record saying he hoped they sold none.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:57
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The state of the ICE art is pretty static. A 2013 Sentra is basically indistinguishable in terms of features and performance from a 2017 Sentra from a 2010 Sentra. On the other hand, a 2010 Leaf is not as good as a 2013 (vastly improved HVAC system improving range) which is not as good as a 2016 (larger battery capacity from 24kWh to 30), which is not nearly as good as the Ioniq or the Bolt. The changes in technology are extremely rapid and mean that used vehicles are not competitive with new ones on a features and functionality basis. He claimed they lost about $14,000 on every one sold and openly asked people not to buy them.
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Jul 1, 2017 00:03
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Deteriorata posted:He claimed they lost about $14,000 on every one sold and openly asked people not to buy them. serge fuckin owns and is also terrible he's the perfect Fiat CEO
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Jul 1, 2017 00:22
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I have never ever had to buy a car before, but now the time when I need to looms upon me. I know.... very little about cars. Proposed Budget: On hand I'm probably willing to spend a little over 5k immediately, and make payments of up to 300$ a month, assuming I can get a good rate New or Used: Used is fine, I assume I can't afford new Body Style: 4 door, I used to drive a dodge caliber, something along those lines would be good. 4 doors, I'd be open to a smaller SUV or something. Some room in the back for the dog and his crate is essential. How will you be using the car?: I'll be driving to and from work, about 30 miles a day, all highway driving. I'm in MA, so snow will be an issue. I'd like to go on roadtrips as well. There's two of us who will be using the car principally, so not much hauling will be necessary. What aspects are most important to you? I'd like to not spend a fortune on gas. It'd be good if the car were safe. Other than that, I'm not picky, luxuries don't much matter to me. Four wheel drive maybe? Also I don't know anything about car insurance, so advice is appreciated!
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Jul 1, 2017 22:50
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TheCog posted:I have never ever had to buy a car before, but now the time when I need to looms upon me. I know.... very little about cars. $300 per month finances about $15k, so you're looking at a budget of roughly $20k. Lots of good cars at that price point. You'll need to do some test driving to see what you like and don't like. Some to start with might be the Mazda 3, VW Golf, Honda Civic or Fit, Toyota Prius, Kia Forte, Ford Fusion, Chevy Cruze or a Hyundai Accent. Those are markedly different cars and should give you some good differences handling, power, comfort, economy, and amenities so you can see what appeals to you. For 4wd, a Subaru is generally going to be your best bet. Again, there are lots of options in the SUV category, so spend some time learning the market. Once you've done your homework you can winnow the list. There's dozens of possibilities out there and you need to find the best fit for you, like buying shoes.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:05
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One thing to add, if you're buying an SUV or hatch and want to put your dog in the very back I would double check that the car won't crumple that zone if you get rear ended. I like to keep the dog with the other passengers because I don't think many manufacturers worry so much about cargo area safety.
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Jul 2, 2017 02:46
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prom candy posted:One thing to add, if you're buying an SUV or hatch and want to put your dog in the very back I would double check that the car won't crumple that zone if you get rear ended. I like to keep the dog with the other passengers because I don't think many manufacturers worry so much about cargo area safety. The mercedes e class wagon is the only car wgere they consider that I think (as they have a back back seat option.
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Jul 2, 2017 04:17
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ShadeofBlue posted:I agree that the Volt is probably a better car than the Leaf, from what I heard, but the logic that a smaller battery somehow mitigates the problem of the car's range diminishing over time is a fallacy. With a smaller battery, you put more wear on the individual cells for the same amount of travel, assuming that the electronics in the car optimize it so that the wear over time is distributed. His logic was incorrect but the result is actually accurate for entirely different reasons. The battery in the Leaf degrades worse than any other because they use the full capacity of it so often, and Nissan didn't include a proper cooling system. The battery in the Volt degrades very little because the car never uses anywhere near the full capacity. It never fully charges or fully discharges it. The Volt can get away with it because it has a generator on board. Applying this logic to a Leaf would result in a tiny range. Tesla actually does the same thing in the S60 - it's the same physical battery as the 75, just computer limited to a smaller usable capacity. Cheaper than special-manufacturing the smaller battery.
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Jul 2, 2017 04:40
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So about 25 months ago, I asked the following - edited the parts that are slightly changed since then:Mitsuo posted:So at the moment I drive a '92 Toyota Previa with 313k miles, and maintenance costs are still not too bad, but at some point it will pass on to the great beyond and I'll have to figure out what to get next. Might as well get some ideas. Well, two years later the car just keeps on chugging (especially because it's out of the outdoor parking in TX and back in CA covered parking). Still, its day will come soon and the answer last time was "get a Prius - standard or V, 2nd-gen or later, Two is fine". Is this still true today, or have circumstances changed since then? Next I'll have to figure out how to negotiate on the price - never had to buy a car before.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:09
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I'd just pick up something cheap like a Civic, Fit, etc. The Prius is great but you won't drive enough to see any substantial savings.
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Jul 2, 2017 16:13
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Yeah, if you're only driving 5000 miles a year mostly in the city, virtually any car will be fine. The differences in repairs, gas, or pretty much anything else will be very small. Find a car you like for what you want to pay and don't worry about it.
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Jul 2, 2017 16:36
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Fair enough, I'll probably default to making the safety rating the top priority then. Looks like there's a wide range of well-rated cars - will probably "narrow" it down to looking at something from Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Mazda/Subaru.
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Jul 2, 2017 20:20
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:I'd just pick up something cheap like a Civic, Fit, etc. The Prius is great but you won't drive enough to see any substantial savings. The thing about the Prius for a "car as appliance" buyer is, the gas mileage is just a bonus. The main thing is the fact that very little maintenance, scheduled or otherwise, is required.
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Jul 2, 2017 21:21
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Grumpwagon posted:The thing about the Prius for a "car as appliance" buyer is, the gas mileage is just a bonus. The main thing is the fact that very little maintenance, scheduled or otherwise, is required. Any car driven only 5000 miles per year is going to require very little maintenance is the point. The difference between the best and the worst will buy you a cup of coffee.
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Jul 2, 2017 21:36
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TheCog posted:I have never ever had to buy a car before, but now the time when I need to looms upon me. I know.... very little about cars. You don't need AWD in Mass.
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Jul 2, 2017 23:14
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For a rarely driven car (like measured in a week or so), I'd buy something with few electronics, fewer parasitic loss when parked means battery will drain slower when parked. For short drives, I would want something with a smaller sump, so the oil gets hotter quicker (generally small motors) and something with less rubber tubing to dry out from lack of use (turbo cars tend to have more of this). So basically, almost all cheap non-turbo small cars should be fine except stupid poo poo like fiats.
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Jul 3, 2017 01:48
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nm posted:all cars should be fine except stupid poo poo like fiats. New thread title.
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Jul 3, 2017 05:47
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If I'm looking for a get from A to B reliably car for an urban area is there any reason not to go with the Civic? Is there anything competitively priced that would outperform it or maintain it's value better? Is the EX-T worth it? Any reason to avoid 2017 models? If I was looking at certified pre-owned is there are any recent year to avoid or anything in particular to look for in the service history? Thanks goons.
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Jul 3, 2017 18:34
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A Civic would be fine. Any small car would do well in urban driving, so if you like the Civic go for it. I'm not aware of any particular issues with it.
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Jul 3, 2017 19:03
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Automotive journalists seemed to pan the 9th gen (2012-2015?) and seem to love the 10th gen (2016-present). We have an 8th gen and it still runs well after 9 years and 200k km. I don't think there was anything wrong with the 9th gen, it was more a factor of increased competition in the segment. The EX-T doesn't have VTEC so if you were planning on tossing a sweet VTEC banner across your windshield you'll have to think twice.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:25
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I had a friend with a last gen civic that was nothing but problems. CR has also knocked the civic of late for reliability problems.
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Jul 3, 2017 21:48
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Mitsuo posted:5000 miles a year For such a short commute and in a city where it is guaranteed to get dings and dents and be hard to park I think forgoing the cost of a hybrid and getting a used yaris or fit would suit better.
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Jul 4, 2017 00:30
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Any opinions on the Cruze/Sonic with the 1.8 in regards to a reliable driving appliance? Relatively new ones with low miles can be had for under 10k. Opinions other places seem to be mostly favorable.
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Jul 4, 2017 00:44
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A Proper Uppercut posted:Any opinions on the Cruze/Sonic with the 1.8 in regards to a reliable driving appliance? Relatively new ones with low miles can be had for under 10k. Opinions other places seem to be mostly favorable. Edmunds' TCO estimator puts the 2015 Sonic at $125/mo repair and maintenance, averaged over 5 years. Cruze comes in at $112/mo. Average for 2015 MY of that type is about $105/mo. So they're a bit below average, but not by a lot. (Caveat - Edmunds' TCO overestimates R&M by quite a bit, maybe 40-50%, but consistently so it's a fair comparison) If you like them and enjoy driving them, that matters far more than a few dollars a month in repair/maintenance.
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Jul 4, 2017 01:21
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A Proper Uppercut posted:Any opinions on the Cruze/Sonic with the 1.8 in regards to a reliable driving appliance? Relatively new ones with low miles can be had for under 10k. Opinions other places seem to be mostly favorable. My wife has a '12 base model with 50k that she's owned since new. It's never needed anything besides oil changes and standard maintenance. The interior isn't the best, but it's perfectly fine for commuting. They don't get spectacular MPG, so if that's a main concern, you may want to look at something else.
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Jul 4, 2017 01:21
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This is for my wife. She is strictly a "Car is for A to B" person. Looking for something reliable, under 10k, and less than 5 years old. Also maybe Bluetooth audio as she listens to a lot of podcasts. Seeing a lot of Fiestas, Focus, Cruze, Sonic, Kia and Hyundai. My personal pick would be a Honda Fit, just trying to find a good example of one. Not so concerned with regular maintenance so much as big things going wrong, those vintage Fords had the problematic transmissions, correct?
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Jul 4, 2017 01:27
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Bluetooth can be added super easily as long as the car has an AUX port and 12V plug, so don't let that sway you if you find something that ticks every other box.
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Jul 4, 2017 01:33
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prom candy posted:Bluetooth can be added super easily as long as the car has an AUX port and 12V plug, so don't let that sway you if you find something that ticks every other box. Oh, well that's good to know.
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Jul 4, 2017 01:38
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A Proper Uppercut posted:This is for my wife. She is strictly a "Car is for A to B" person. Looking for something reliable, under 10k, and less than 5 years old. Also maybe Bluetooth audio as she listens to a lot of podcasts. Seeing a lot of Fiestas, Focus, Cruze, Sonic, Kia and Hyundai. The auto box on those Fords was bad but if you get a manual they're fine. I think the Fit Tax is excessive and I'm a pretty big Korean car hater. Just get a Hyundai.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:04
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I went to test drive a Mazda 3 yesterday and got the dealer to give me a quote. I haven't done a ton of shopping around yet but it looks like they're quoting me around 23,000 and 0% APR for 60 months for the trim and options I want. I think if I showed up ready to purchase I could get them to go lower. MSRP is around 26,500 and I'm not sure whether or not I should wait until the end of summer or later in the year or go with this price. I just don't have a good sense of what is considered a "good deal" for a new car these days. Edit: They're also offering nearly double the KBB trade in value for my current car. Not sure why that is.
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Jul 4, 2017 16:27
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On Terra Firma posted:I went to test drive a Mazda 3 yesterday and got the dealer to give me a quote. I haven't done a ton of shopping around yet but it looks like they're quoting me around 23,000 and 0% APR for 60 months for the trim and options I want. I think if I showed up ready to purchase I could get them to go lower. MSRP is around 26,500 and I'm not sure whether or not I should wait until the end of summer or later in the year or go with this price. I just don't have a good sense of what is considered a "good deal" for a new car these days. Go to edmunds or kbb, price out the car you drove. If its a good price then buy it. If they're giving you double the kbb on your trade-in, and its a good price on the new vehicle, then definitely buy it. (when i say "buy it" I mean if you like the thing and you've checked out your other options)
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Jul 4, 2017 16:32
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Thermopyle posted:Go to edmunds or kbb, price out the car you drove. If its a good price then buy it. If they're giving you double the kbb on your trade-in, and its a good price on the new vehicle, then definitely buy it. Right after I posted that a friend told me a few places where you can compare your price based on what other people paid. Looks like they're offering about 1k lower than that which is surprising. There are only two Mazda dealers where I live and I haven't hit up the other one yet. My wife bought her CX5 from the location we went and they said they would give us $500 just for owning two in the same household which is neat.
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Jul 4, 2017 16:42
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