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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I don't particularly give a gently caress compared to things like mass murdering Iraqis or putting me in jail. Less enthusiastic?  - Senator "Diamond" Joe Biden, 1994 :handonchin: 
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Jul 2, 2017 17:09
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I don't particularly give a gently caress compared to things like mass murdering Iraqis or putting me in jail. Gary Johnson supports bombing the gently caress out of the middle east every bit as much as Obama does. Speaking of lead he hates environmental regulations as much as Republicans do. If those are your single issues then Christ at least vote for Jill Stein. She is cool with bringing back polio but if you voted for Johnson then so are you so no problems there.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:10
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Hot take: nobody here is a bad person, george's point was just "it's better to be ignorant than to knowingly compromise your values", and mentioning Charlie's vote should be probatable at this point just because of how many pointless derails it causes
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Jul 2, 2017 17:11
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VitalSigns posted:Gary Johnson supports bombing the gently caress out of the middle east every bit as much as Obama does. I do not believe that to be the case. At least, it isn't the case as far as campaign rhetoric goes. However, Johnson was not running against Obama in 2016. He was running against Trump and Clinton. For most domestic policy there is no choice but to concede that Clinton is the better choice, but on foreign policy Johnson was better than Clinton or Trump straight up. (And yeah, he isn't even that good. Just passing a low bar here.)
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Jul 2, 2017 17:15
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"The Iraq War is bad because I could be drafted. The Drug War is bad because I could be arrested. Taxes are bad because I have to pay them. Everything else, ehhhhn, just do whatever, nbd." Truly, libertarians are a shining beacon of principles in our grubby political landscape. e: I don't know or care about you, furious, just lolling remembering other libertarians I have known. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 17:16
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Doc Hawkins posted:"The Iraq War is bad because I could be drafted. The Drug War is bad because I could be arrested. Taxes are bad because I have to pay them. Everything else, ehhhhn, just do whatever, nbd." No prob. I'm not really a libertarian, not on economics anyway which is where they really go off the deep end. It's just I'm through with voting for politicians who want to put me in jail or mass slaughter people overseas and the greens are even crazier than the libertarians. It's not a shining beacon of values to not want to be jailed, but a candidate wanting to jail someone is also not something you can reasonably expect that person to ignore at the ballot box.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:22
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Hmm, maybe I spoke too soon.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:23
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I smoke pot. You literally voted for someone that wants to put me in jail. You are asking me to vote for myself being put in jail. How much lead did the Republicans put in your water? Not sure where to begin and remain succinct, but I'll try. I might be missing details about your situation here, but I'll be honest and say I don't think you are accurately assessing your risk of going to jail for marijuana possession under a Clinton presidency. She pretty much never talked about it and bland liberalism has at the very least been trending towards decriminalization and reclassification. And if I'm being blunt (har har), there are segments of the population that are not at serious risk for serving jail time because of marijuana use. I'm a white male living in the northeast and used to be a regular user. I knew I was never at any actual risk of serving jail time. Obviously it gets a bit thornier if you sell or carry around large quantities, but many of my male, white friends have been caught even with large quantities and none of them served any time in jail. Being that you voted for Gary Johnson and have an Eagles/Buddy Ryan avatar, I'm assuming you fall into largely the same demographics and are in roughly the same situation. If your vote is informed by an infinitesimally minuscule risk that you will be locked up for using marijuana, I don't agree with your priorities. Gary Johnson working to eliminate the minimum wage or OSHA or environmental protections or whatever poses a much bigger risk to your livelihood (and that of drat near everyone else's) than someone continuing the status quo on marijuana.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:40
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"Don't worry, we won't actually jail you like we are saying we will because our law enforcement is super racist." Still not persuasive.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:43
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Weed is a non-issue because both sides of the populace are pushing for legalization, please stop screeching about how you're morally superior because you put weed above human rights.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:46
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The choice was between compromising my ideals by voting for Hillary and pissing all over them by voting for Trump. One of those is far worse than the other. you could have also not voted for a war criminal you lesser of two evils idiots are the whole reason we're in this mess
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Jul 2, 2017 17:47
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sirtommygunn posted:Weed is a non-issue because both sides are pushing for legalization, please stop screeching about how you're morally superior because you put weed above human rights. quote:URSULA BURNS: So long means thumbs up, short means thumbs down; or long means I support, short means I don't. I'm going to start with — I'm going to give you about ten long-shorts. Again, it's not moral superiority. It's a simple practical matter. I'm not voting for someone who wants to jail me. Only a complete loving retard would do that. This Stroke Victim Was Jailed For Smoking Pot And Couldn’t Afford $100 Bail. He Died In Custody. But if you think this is a non-issue than yes I am significantly morally superior to you. FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 17:49
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Reminder that http://www.pslweb.org/ was the only moral vote in 2016
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Jul 2, 2017 17:49
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The lesser of two evils is really just a slower march toward oblivion. Sooner or later you actually need to change course, even if that leads to more harm in the short term. Trump is not a good thing, but there's a 0% chance you'd see any Democrats doing any hard introspection or reassessment if Clinton had won, and the next Trump would have been even worse. You might have gotten an actual fascist rather than an incompetent blowhard authoritarian. (Granted, you still might get that. I sure hope not, though, for everyone's sakes.)
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Jul 2, 2017 17:51
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Again, if the Democrats run a centrist the only moral vote is for the PSL. Your game theory vote is for the GOP because then at least we'll have a sooner chance at a primary.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:52
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FuriousxGeorge posted:"Don't worry, we won't actually jail you like we are saying we will because our law enforcement is super racist." Look man, I was just refuting your sanctimonious "you voted for someone who wants to put me in jail." I think you know that's disingenuous. If you want to vote third party that's fine, but if a Clinton supporter has to answer for Iraq deaths and not moving rapidly enough towards legalization, you should have to answer for whatever batshit vision Gary Johnson has for the world.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:52
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fsif posted:Look man, I was just refuting your sanctimonious "you voted for someone who wants to put me in jail." I think you know that's disingenuous. I've been arrested twice in my life, big fat white suburban guy or not. This isn't hypothetical to me. Hillary Clinton opposes legalization in all senses of the word, in her own words. Stop with the lies about her position, they aren't persuasive either.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:55
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lol @ "not moving rapidly enough towards legalization" how much glue do you have to huff to rationalize this sort of thing?
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Jul 2, 2017 17:56
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the democrats (with very occasional exceptions) have been opposed to any legalization from the county or state level all the way up. the recent wave of successful legalization efforts has been, with the recent exception of vermont, all ballot initiatives that circumvent and go against the wishes of the elected officials that are supposed to represent the will of their constituency
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Jul 2, 2017 18:03
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I've been arrested twice in my life, big fat white suburban guy or not. This isn't hypothetical to me. Hillary Clinton opposes legalization in all senses of the word, in her own words. Stop with the lies about her position, they aren't persuasive either. making the man who will throw you in jail for failing to pay a medical bill a superior option, for some reason?
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Jul 2, 2017 18:05
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I've been arrested twice in my life, big fat white suburban guy or not. This isn't hypothetical to me. Hillary Clinton opposes legalization in all senses of the word, in her own words. Stop with the lies about her position, they aren't persuasive either. And the Republican Party, which now controls all three branches of the federal government, loving loves pot.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:06
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like the democratic party is awful on marijuana, no questions there, but given the choice between the woman who says blackwater should be able to use me as slave labor in the event I smoke up and the man who says blackwater should be able to use me as slave labor in the event I get in a car accident, i'd prefer a better choice but I ain't picking the guy.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:07
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Also not a hypothetical, a third of Americans are about to gave their Drinking water deregulated by the EPA. But, y'know, the Democrats are the truly bad ones.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:10
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Ze Pollack posted:making the man who will throw you in jail for failing to pay a medical bill a superior option, for some reason? I already can't afford medical bills under the Democratic health care reform and then they nominated someone who said single payer is never, ever happening. Do you really think there are some magic words you can say that is going to make me agree with Hillary that I should be jailed for smoking pot and then vote to jail myself? It says something that you guys think it's easier to persuade me of that then it would be to instead spend your time convincing centrists not to arrest people for pot. Am I really the main problem here, even if I am wrong and I really do belong in jail for being a pothead like Hillary says? FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 18:11
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I already can't afford medical bills under the Democratic health care reform and then they nominated someone who said single payer is never, ever happening. Do you really think there are some magic words you can say that is going to make me agree with Hillary that I should be jailed for smoking pot and then vote to jail myself? You're the one who's here taking a rather stupid position at the moment. While Clinton was awful on pot, she probably wouldn't have nominated someone as insanely awful on the Drug War as Sessions. I'd rather have someone who opposes legalization, but could be pressed to cut back on or end the Drug War, than someone who is all-in on it and wants to prosecute pot smokers to the fullest extent of the law, which is what we ended up with.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:17
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FuriousxGeorge posted:I already can't afford medical bills under the Democratic health care reform and then they nominated someone who said single payer is never, ever happening. Do you really think there are some magic words you can say that is going to make me agree with Hillary that I should be jailed for smoking pot and then vote to jail myself? you did vote to jail yourself, though. you voted for Gary Johnson, who wants your rear end rotting in a nice private debtors' prison in the event you ever break your leg. assuming you know what Gary Johnson stands for, we both know being thrown in prison is not a dealbreaker for you. or if it is, that you find being thrown in prison for something outside your control more palatable than being thrown in prison for something you do.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:17
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furiousgeorge what are you doing? you know voting for candidates with terrible policy platforms is only ok and vigorously defensible if its abuela
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Jul 2, 2017 18:19
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Razputeen posted:furiousgeorge what are you doing? you know voting for candidates with terrible policy platforms is only ok and vigorously defensible if its abuela Oh hey, look, someone who thinks saying Trump is worse = defending abuela. When all of us are outright saying "Clinton is terrible on pot."
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Jul 2, 2017 18:21
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Ze Pollack posted:you did vote to jail yourself, though. you voted for Gary Johnson, who wants your rear end rotting in a nice private debtors' prison in the event you ever break your leg. assuming you know what Gary Johnson stands for, we both know being thrown in prison is not a dealbreaker for you. Breaking my leg is an if. Smoking pot is not. I'm definitely doing that. Does Johnson even support debtors prisons? Quick google doesn't turn anything up on that. Regardless, "My candidate only wants you bankrupted when you break your leg, not in jail," still lacks persuasiveness.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:21
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Majorian posted:Oh hey, look, someone who thinks saying Trump is worse = defending abuela. trump is worse than gary johnson too yet you presume that all of his voters owed their votes to hillary
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Jul 2, 2017 18:23
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Does Johnson even support debtors prisons? Quick google doesn't turn anything up on that. Libertarians do.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:23
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Call Me Charlie posted:Do you notice how every time you respond to me it some lovely gotcha to prove how bad Trump really is while ignoring how completely garbage Obama and Clinton are? Do you realize you have been doing the same routine towards me for literally years? I said my vote was a gamble an unknown number of times and you still try to paint me as a mindless Trump supporter that will follow daddy come hell or high water. My dude pointing out that you criticized Hillary for being bad about a thing but voted for the guy who is inarguably worse about tat thing is not a gotcha, nor is wanting you to justify what makes Trump better than Hillary You're kind of a moron
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Jul 2, 2017 18:23
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Also posting your actual words and asking you to address them is the opposite of a strawman smh
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Jul 2, 2017 18:24
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Now that that's out of the way let's discuss the jdpon
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Jul 2, 2017 18:24
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Breaking my leg is an if. Smoking pot is not. I'm definitely doing that. Yeah well I have preexisting medical conditions, so in my case there's no "if" about healthcare.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:25
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Razputeen posted:trump is worse than gary johnson too yet you presume that all of his voters owed their votes to hillary I don't think anyone "owes" anything when it comes to votes. Clinton was a terrible candidate (I said as much many times during the primary and the general), and it's extremely unsurprising to me that she lost, at least in retrospect. But it's really, really dumb to pretend like her anti-drug policies would have been harsher, and that she would have prosecuted pot smoking more fervently, than Jeff Sessions.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:27
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Breaking my leg is an if. Smoking pot is not. I'm definitely doing that. no argument on that last front here. but when my choice is between that and "my candidate wants being T-boned at an intersection to be punishable by jail time unless you've got a couple hundred grand in the bank," the selection heuristic is not a tricky one
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Jul 2, 2017 18:27
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Looking like a piece of poo poo is the only acceptable pre-existing condition
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Jul 2, 2017 18:27
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Yeah well I have preexisting medical conditions, so in my case there's no "if" about healthcare. Sorry to hear that. I'm still not voting to jail myself though. It seems like the sensible compromise here would be for us to have healthcare and also me not in jail. Deal? Oh, wait, nope. Centrists say no.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:28
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Sorry to hear that. I'm still not voting to jail myself though. Again, it's unlikely that she would have amped up prosecutions of pot as much as Sessions is already doing. You are more likely to get jailed in the next four years than if Clinton were President. These are facts.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:29
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