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Annual Prophet posted:not a related question, but what school / tradition do you practice in? I never know quite how to answer this question but I started with Tibetan and Mahayana traditions and I was interested in Theravada for awhile but most of my influences and interests still rest with Mahayana. possibly someday I will find a teacher and figure more out but for now I just study and read what I can get my hands on.
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 00:49 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 23:29 |
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Reene posted:I never know quite how to answer this question but I started with Tibetan and Mahayana traditions and I was interested in Theravada for awhile but most of my influences and interests still rest with Mahayana. many thanks for the reply! some areas have more centers and richer opportunities and others fewer, but I'm a bit remote, so it's more the latter here, which always leaves me interested in others' experiences and sanghas. (fortunately, though it was pure serendipity, i happened to find a good group in what for the most part is my own tradition: Soto Zen, though I am shamelessly syncretic and mostly practice oriented).
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 01:45 |
Annual Prophet posted:many thanks for the reply! some areas have more centers and richer opportunities and others fewer, but I'm a bit remote, so it's more the latter here, which always leaves me interested in others' experiences and sanghas. (fortunately, though it was pure serendipity, i happened to find a good group in what for the most part is my own tradition: Soto Zen, though I am shamelessly syncretic and mostly practice oriented).
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# ? Jun 9, 2017 07:38 |
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i just finished reading a translation of Rennyo's letters (Rennyo is an important figure in Jodo Shinshu, and is regarded as one of the most important figures in the sect, second only to the founder, Shinran Shonin) and wanted to post a quotation from it that i thought people here might like (I don't i think people here will hate it lmao but I want to try promoting shin buddhist thought here, at least a little bit)Rennyo Shonin posted:When we carefully consider the transiency of human life, we realize that the living will certainly end in death and that the prosperous will eventually decline. This is how life is in the human world. Even so, we vainly live days and nights, spending spending months and years to no purpose. Indeed, we may lament about it, but I feel that we could never really comprehend the true extent of this pitifully sad situation.
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# ? Jun 12, 2017 05:16 |
I have a question for the Jodo Shinshu folks such as Senju (I think? Forgive me if I'm missing a nuance): The core concept of Jodo Shinshu is that you have to abandon yourself to "other power," right? I am curious how this is made compatible with dharma study, organized temple/sangha organization, and so forth, since it seems like these things suggest that you are still trying to do things by "self power." Also am I searching wrong or are the resources for Jodo Shinshu online kind of lovely, lol.
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# ? Jun 27, 2017 10:54 |
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Nessus posted:I have a question for the Jodo Shinshu folks such as Senju (I think? Forgive me if I'm missing a nuance): there's some good articles online and you can find the writings of shirnan and rennyo translated, but for the most part yeah you gotta like look REALLY hard to find any good ones. the important thing to realize is that dharma talks and temples do not lead to buddhahood, but only amida. essentially, the temples and the talks are there to help people understand the call that amida is making everyday. it's kinda like how calvinists believe that everyone is predestined for heaven or hell, but still have church services weekly
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# ? Jun 27, 2017 13:40 |
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I have a few questions about vipissana meditation posture. I started practicing meditation when I became interested in Buddhism almost a decade ago, but have rarely practiced in the past 5 years. I have started practicing again, but I am having a lot of trouble with my posture. I have weird knees, I could never sit cross-legged as a kid, and would actually sit the opposite way when I was really young, with my legs folded towards the outside of my thighs. Even now sitting in cross-legged is uncomfortable at best. Both my knees are at least a foot above the ground, and I feel very unsteady if I'm not pressing my back firmly against a wall when I sit that way. And if I do that I kind of have to push out against my knees/ankles to maintain a straight back posture. I also have extremely tight hip flexors. I'm also about 6'4, and while I have decent posture standing, I feel like everything about my physical person is very unsuited to meditation postures. How should I go about acclimating my body? I know the answer is "just practice", but if I try and meditate not leaning against a wall I can only go a few minutes before my back aches and it breaks my concentration deeply. I have typically been meditating on a sort of futon with a soft back, and I have been using that for support, but I don't want to rely on that forever.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 13:33 |
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Perhaps you should try sitting in the Seiza position on a short stool like one of these? https://www.amazon.com/Seiza-Meditation-Bench/dp/B00U0LDAHY I've never really felt comfortable on a bench like this, but plenty of other people have if they don't find comfort on a zafu. edit: Also if that doesn't work either you could always meditate sitting in a full height chair with back support, or lie down, or do walking meditation! Plenty of options, so don't feel like you should try to fight through something that is plain uncomfortable. Also if you do want to work towards success in sitting in the traditional position, then it sounds like yoga/stretching could probably help loosen you up a bit. I'm not as tall as you (5'11"), but from working in construction my whole adult life has led to some pretty bad body posture. I have recently really begun adding yoga/stretching to my mediation as a form of meditation on the body and have seen good gains both mentally and physically. SpaceCadetBob fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jul 3, 2017 |
# ? Jul 3, 2017 13:39 |
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Posture is important but not that important. One thing you mentioned, though, is your knees being up in the air. That's going to put a lot of strain on your hips and isn't "proper" anyhow. You should sit on a cushion such that your knees are on the ground. You want to create a very stable base with a triangle where your body is resting on the ground on three points with the knees and butt. The purpose of the position is stability - you need a stable body to be the seat of a stable mind. So if your posture is uncomfortable and unstable then that will not help and it's better to sit normally in a chair.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 13:44 |
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I have a few questions about vipissana meditation posture. About the legs, unless you're in a tradition like Zen that demands a specific position, feel free to put them in whatever way is comfortable to you. You can sit cross-legged, kneel, kneel with a little support bench or even sit on a stool with your legs down like on a chair. Just avoid positions that cut off circulation for a long time, ideally get up and move your legs a bit every 20 minutes or so. About your back, from my experience sitting without back support is very uncomfortable at first, but it becomes easier with practice and it's totally worth it. You can try some yoga or core strength exercises to make it easier to get used to it. In the short term, my teachers have recommended sticking your butt out towards the back a bit more than you naturally would, because that straightens up your back. If you have some medical problem with your back ideally talk to a doctor before deciding how to sit. And if the pain is very bad, leaning on some back support is also an option. But I would recommend trying to go without the support, it's worth it in the long run.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 13:50 |
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Perhaps you should try sitting in the Seiza position on a short stool like one of these? I used to practice Aikido, which required a lot of Seiza, so I can do it but I feel that it is less stable than sitting cross legged. Sitting Seiza always felt more natural to me than cross-legged, but it becomes very painful after just a few minutes, especially in my thigh muscles. I've never tried a bench though, maybe I'll look into one. Paramemetic posted:Posture is important but not that important. One thing you mentioned, though, is your knees being up in the air. That's going to put a lot of strain on your hips and isn't "proper" anyhow. You should sit on a cushion such that your knees are on the groundYou want to create a very stable base with a triangle where your body is resting on the ground on three points with the knees and butt. Could you explain what you mean by this further? Even if I sit on a raised cushion and have my legs in contact with the floor in front of it, I'm nowhere near being able to touch my knees to the ground. The only way I can sit cross-legged is with my right foot under my left calf, and my left foot out a little further with the heel resting under my shin. In this position it isn't even possible for my knees to connect with the ground because if I pushed them down with more force (which at this point I could only do for maybe a minute, and that would push me into real knee/hip pain) they would just be mashing into my feet. I would very much prefer to practice sitting as opposed to a chair or walking. I used to do yoga, but I don't have access to a class or teacher and I always get burnt out doing it alone.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 14:09 |
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I remember reading somewhere that if you are sitting on a raised cushion, and can't get your knees to touch that it means you need a taller cushion. How high of a cushion are we talking here? Since you are so tall you could very well need 6" to 12" or height under your butt to get your knees low enough. Again I'm not as tall as you, but I sit on a VERY full zafu which gives me about 6" of height. I also sit in the Burmese position which does not cross the legs at all, but lies them in front of you one in front of the other. A quick google search found me this which shows the burmese position kinda. https://www.yogajournal.com/meditation/everything-need-know-meditation-posture Also notice in the 6th position picture how much of a cushion the man on the right is sitting on.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 14:16 |
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I used to practice Aikido, which required a lot of Seiza, so I can do it but I feel that it is less stable than sitting cross legged. Sitting Seiza always felt more natural to me than cross-legged, but it becomes very painful after just a few minutes, especially in my thigh muscles. I've never tried a bench though, maybe I'll look into one. You have to pivot your hips so that your thighs are directed down towards the ground and your butt is elevated. This will naturally align the spine. If you sit with your legs crossed in the way we usually consider cross legged, with the legs crossed at the lower leg near the ankle, this puts the weight of the body entirely on the butt, causing sciatica pinching and also causing the back to bend in the lumbar region, inclining us to lean backwards. From the seated position, lift yourself with your hands and rotate so that your knees are both touching the ground, then keeping that contact, let yourself sit. Basically you want to pivot yourself at the hips rather than rest the whole body weight on the butt. If you can pick your legs up without falling over, your weight is all on the butt and it's not good. Lift yourself like I mentioned or basically do a pelvic thrust to rotate the hips forward. It's a bit hard to explain in text but you'll understand immediately when you do it.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 14:22 |
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I'm basically doing the Quarter Lotus position, as far as the feet are concerned. At the moment I don't have any sort of cushion. I meditate on a futon, and it's certainly much lower than the one the man is using in 6. I can double-fold it though, and that would make it roughly twice as high. I will try that next time and put a towel under my feet and see if that helps. I'm moving to a new country in a few weeks though and I have very limited baggage space, so I don't want to order anything I'll have to transport until then, but I will definitely look for a proper cushion. I'm interested in the Seiza bench because when I practiced Aikido I actually found the position of Seiza to be comfortable, it was just that my muscles were very tight and I usually sat on tatami mats, which are not soft. My only question with that is what to do with your hands while using a bench? Having your thighs slope down and away makes it seem like your hands would slide away from you in a typical posture, which would not be good.
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# ? Jul 3, 2017 14:23 |
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:My only question with that is what to do with your hands while using a bench? Having your thighs slope down and away makes it seem like your hands would slide away from you in a typical posture, which would not be good. try the cosmic mudra; super comfortable once you get used to it also Burmese position is great if you want to do sitting on a high zafu.* i can manage a number of postures, including full lotus these days, but that's always been the most comfortable here's a video on the zen method, including the cosmic mudra for your hands; turn on english captions and if you watch from about 4:00-6:00 you'll get a sense of the guidance on getting into a seated position https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LL2XUTeoUsM *if you wind up getting a zafu at some point, and you absolutely should if you're going to do seated meditation without a seiza bench, buckwheat husk filled ones will give you more elevation and support than kapok filled ones (kapok is softer but compresses a bit) Red Dad Redemption fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jul 3, 2017 |
# ? Jul 3, 2017 15:21 |
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For Seiza hands, I believe you would still try to keep them cupped resting on the very top point of your thighs tight to the body. I am pretty biased against the quarter lotus. I feel having your foot under your knee is really going to mess up your back posture unless you have a really high pillow, and strong core already. Even before you bother to spend money on a bench you can try a type of Seiza position where you spread your legs out to the side of your butt (similar to how you mentioned sitting as a child) while keeping your butt on a raised pillow. example:http://imgur.com/xP4ziy0 SpaceCadetBob fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jul 3, 2017 |
# ? Jul 3, 2017 15:22 |
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Can anyone expound on the procedural differences and practical purposes between Vipassana and Zazen? When I first started meditating I was very against the Zen tradition (for reasons I can't even remember now) and never looked into it at all. Reading about it recently a lot of people are saying "Purpose of both is the same, Zazen focuses more on a posture and typically has shorter meditation sessions".
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 08:04 |
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Can anyone expound on the procedural differences and practical purposes between Vipassana and Zazen? When I first started meditating I was very against the Zen tradition (for reasons I can't even remember now) and never looked into it at all. Reading about it recently a lot of people are saying "Purpose of both is the same, Zazen focuses more on a posture and typically has shorter meditation sessions". Depending on the Zen school, zazen can be about just sort of hanging out in the Buddha's posture until enlightenment strikes you, or it can be about emptying your mind and being in the moment. Vipassana is similar to the second notion, it's about developing mindfulness and awareness. It's practiced in a lot of different ways, and the non-Zen schools that teach vipassana in the West at least tend to have a much less ritualistic approach to meditation. If you like the Japanese flair and strictness of aikido training, you'll probably like zazen too.
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 08:28 |
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there may be a slightly greater greater emphasis on observation / labeling in vipassana, whereas in zen (or at least stoto zen) there is a slightly greater emphasis on what has been described as "opening the hand of thought": just seeing and letting go of thoughts and sensations as they arise rather than following or holding on to them. in practice i have found them to be very similar (though by far my main experience has been with zen). when i have done vipassana my / our eyes were closed, whereas in zen they remain slightly open. practice periods can be 25-30 minutes (longer in some cases - sanshin zen apparently does 50 minute sits), sometimes with two in a row separated by a brief walking meditation zen schools / temples may or may not involve simple rituals such as the manner of walking into a zendo, gassho, whether there is chanting, etc. some are much less formal than others. there are two main currents of japanese zen, soto and rinzai. there can be koan practice in both, but there seems to be a somewhat greater emphasis on kensho and koan in rinzai, and in rinzai people may face one another in meditation rather than facing a wall. in soto, where my experience lies, the emphasis is on just sitting (shikantaza). there are also non japanese schools. these are all huge generalizations, and a lot will depend on where you practice, and with whom, with substantial variations even in the same tradition. try out a few possibilities and see what works for you.
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# ? Jul 4, 2017 14:44 |
At a friend's suggestion I watched the episode of "Chef's Table" on Netflix which featured Jeong Kwan's approach to temple cuisine. This basically owned as a television show, although there was far too much input, I thought, from random jagoffs from the New York Times who were saying incredibly basic things. However one thing which Kwan (Venerable Kwan? unsure, she's a nun) kept seeming to say was that the purpose of the temple cuisine was to encourage a 'static' sort of energy. Is this something actually relevant to Korean practice or was it either an idiosyncracy of hers, or just translators loving it up?
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# ? Jul 5, 2017 05:17 |
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If you turn your zafu onto its side, it actually makes sitting in seiza much easier than sitting on it normally. You can kind of fit it in between your legs that way. I read this in a zen book once and it really is much easier on my legs for zazen. Just try to get the cushion balanced and stable, and find a position where it's not going to put so much pressure on your pelvis to put your crotch to sleep (strange feeling! probably not good for you).
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# ? Jul 6, 2017 05:32 |
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If you meet the Buddha on the road, hit him with a sledgehammer until decapitated: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-buddha-vandalism-palms-20170711-htmlstory.html
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# ? Jul 12, 2017 12:28 |
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Oh good, I guess Buddhists aren't exempt from the whole "mistake for being Muslim, then commit a hate crime" thing.
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# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:41 |
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Reene posted:Oh good, I guess Buddhists aren't exempt from the whole "mistake for being Muslim, then commit a hate crime" thing. Some years ago, just before I came here, some people left a dead deer and a bunch of pig bits on the porch of the center with a message about Muslims going home. Just a few months ago, someone spraypainted a Buddha at our center. Such is the way of things, people are very scared and it is unfortunate, so we need Buddhism as much now as ever. The irony of desecrating Buddhas in the same way the Taliban and so on does is not to be lost, really.
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# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:59 |
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Reene posted:Oh good, I guess Buddhists aren't exempt from the whole "mistake for being Muslim, then commit a hate crime" thing. There's a irony that he destroyed the Buddha statue because of hatred for Al Qaeda in the same manner Al Qaeda has destroyed Buddha statues for hatred of Buddhism. E:fb
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# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:00 |
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At least the terrorists were intentionally targeting Buddhist statues. People defacing Buddhas, thinking they're related to Islam, is just plain confusing, and sad. But, you know, 'Murica.
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# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:13 |
cerror posted:At least the terrorists were intentionally targeting Buddhist statues. People defacing Buddhas, thinking they're related to Islam, is just plain confusing, and sad. But, you know, 'Murica.
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# ? Jul 16, 2017 10:39 |
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Anyone had any experience with the Dzogchen Community, specifically in the UK? There's a centre close to me and I'm thinking about checking it out.
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# ? Jul 28, 2017 17:45 |
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I just watched "Hannah: Buddhism's untold story." Anyone else here seen it? Afterwards, I looked up this Ole Nydahl guy and he seemed a bit... controversial. Just nasty rumors? Or is he genuinely more of a black sheep of Buddhism?
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# ? Jul 29, 2017 04:07 |
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CountFosco posted:I just watched "Hannah: Buddhism's untold story." Anyone else here seen it? Afterwards, I looked up this Ole Nydahl guy and he seemed a bit... controversial. Just nasty rumors? Or is he genuinely more of a black sheep of Buddhism? I had to look him up, but he's from a different lineage than I am so that's not surprising. He does not seem all that controversial. His teaching lineage is legitimate as are his authorizations to teach. It looks like his main controversies come from statements he's made about Islam, which are not great, but also aren't uncommon. The other bit of controversy comes from his support of Thrinley Thaye Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. This isn't a controversy about him, this is just him taking a side of a controversy that is contrary to what has become the de facto "normal" side. Not being from the Karma Kagyu lineage, I don't have a dog in that fight and have no reason to comment but I will say that it is very likely there have been deliberate campaigns against Nydahl as a result of the decision he's made regarding who to support as the Karmapa. As far as it goes, some things I find very encouraging about his teaching style is that he does not claim to be some kind of enlightened master, he defers to his own Lama's teachings, and he's not teaching anything outlandish or abnormal. His centers appear, from my cursory reading, to be focused on the standard progression for Vajrayana practitioners. There is sometimes a kneejerk impulse to dismiss Western teachers and sometimes it is warranted but I see no reason for it here. Personally I was dubious about Diamond Way as I had mentally associated with Diamond Mountain, which is a legitimate black sheep operation of a rogue demon worshiper.
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# ? Jul 29, 2017 12:48 |
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Paramemetic posted:I had to look him up, but he's from a different lineage than I am so that's not surprising. He does not seem all that controversial. His teaching lineage is legitimate as are his authorizations to teach. It looks like his main controversies come from statements he's made about Islam, which are not great, but also aren't uncommon. I was actually more thinking about what seems to be a cloud of sexual impropriety which seems to exist on the internet. I grant that it may be all just nasty rumors or anonymous stirring of the pot, but it does make one wary. http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/28 https://info-buddhism.com/Macho-Buddhism-Gender-and-Sexualities-in-the-Diamond%20Way-Scherer.pdf "The Diamond Way is clearly ‘sex-positive’:19 Nydahl propagates a selfproclaimed ‘non-neurotic approach’ to sexuality: while celibacy pertains to monks, it is not for a lay person like himself.20 Nydahl was happily married to his wife Hannah until her death in 2007. Nydahl was also openly promiscuous, sleeping with many female students during his earlier teaching tours in the 1970s and 1980s." I personally am not terribly prudish, but given the implicit power imbalances between students and teachers (having myself been a teacher I can attest to this) relationships with students are fraught with problems, and are something I remain leery of.
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# ? Jul 29, 2017 16:18 |
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CountFosco posted:I was actually more thinking about what seems to be a cloud of sexual impropriety which seems to exist on the internet. I grant that it may be all just nasty rumors or anonymous stirring of the pot, but it does make one wary. It could be both. He is a layperson but sexual impropriety with students is a big concern. There's a history of it with for example highly accomplished "crazy wisdom" style yogis such as Drukpa Kunley or more recently Choygam Trungpa but it is a big problem and is increasingly becoming a major criticism (very recently, Sogyal Rinpoche has been in some hot water for this among other things). Nydahl isn't immune to that kind of criticism if it's accurate simply because he's non-monastic. Celibacy is for monks but a non-virtue is a non-virtue regardless of if you have vows against it or not. Killing doesn't become virtuous just because you don't have the precept against killing, for example. So there is that. Crack posted:Anyone had any experience with the Dzogchen Community, specifically in the UK? There's a centre close to me and I'm thinking about checking it out. By chance I just stumbled onto finding out this was founded by Choegyal Namkhai Norbu. It will be fine. It's going to be Dzogchen as heck so that is a thing. I am from a Mahamudra school so I don't have much comment on that. Westerners are often very attracted to Dzogchen because it is very flashy and also very powerful, but actually succeeding in it requires as much diligence as any other method. In short: should own, definitely check it out. ChNN incidentally has also been responsible for disseminating a lot of Tibetan cultural things and Buddhist magical practices such as namkha knots, and I was just reading a book by him on the Bardo earlier today after someone dropped a bunch of random books off at our center. He's legit and Dzogchen Community is legit.
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# ? Jul 29, 2017 17:22 |
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here's 176 pages of ole nydahl / diamond way discussion. i gave it only the briefest of skims, so caveat emptor: https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,59830,page=1
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# ? Jul 29, 2017 17:35 |
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Paramemetic posted:By chance I just stumbled onto finding out this was founded by Choegyal Namkhai Norbu. It will be fine. It's going to be Dzogchen as heck so that is a thing. I am from a Mahamudra school so I don't have much comment on that. Westerners are often very attracted to Dzogchen because it is very flashy and also very powerful, but actually succeeding in it requires as much diligence as any other method. Thanks for the reassurance, that's why I was asking really. It looked genuine enough but there have been some dubious ones around (New Kadampa springs to mind). I sent them an email and apparently Choegyal Namkhai Norbu is giving a 'Web Transmission' (Direct Transmission through the web) on August 1 - 2 (here if anyones interested) which is a stroke of luck given he only gives 3 a year. It's at 4AM here which is a little less fortunate but oh well. Probably a more comfortable time for the US.
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# ? Jul 30, 2017 12:17 |
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Paramemetic posted:a rogue demon worshiper
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# ? Jul 30, 2017 17:14 |
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Well, the wikipedia page for Diamond Mountain Center does have an image of the facility with an ominous lightning bolt in the distance behind it. The product of demon worship, or merely the product of electric forces in the atmosphere? You be the judge! /tongue in cheek
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# ? Jul 30, 2017 19:32 |
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There is a particular oath-bound protector spirit (called in Tibetan a gyalpo - king spirit) that protects the Gelugpa lineage. Because he's an oathbound spirit he's explicitly not enlightened and is not suitable for refuge or so on. Some people started practicing him as a refuge spirit at some point, despite this spirit is extremely violent towards other lineages of Tibetan Buddhism. HH the Dalai Lama issued a general notice that this spirit is not enlightened and is some kind of demon that shouldn't be practiced anymore because of his violent inclination towards other lineages. But because this demon is very powerful and really supports his devoted followers people continue to do so, and the Chinese started funding his followers a lot in order to help suppress the Dalai Lama. (Followers of that demon will get earthly rewards but then they get reborn to his retinue and fall away from the Dharma). So basically the Diamond Mountain guy was at one point a Geshe but ruined his vows, and this guy teaches seminars and has written many books on how being a good Buddhist can get you very rich and so on. The guy is super controversial and a genuine black sheep in Buddhism, since his lineage has revoked his degrees and monastic order but he continues to act like he is a monk (although he was defrocked when he married a woman at one point). So yeah, there are actual black sheeps out there. I cannot say Ole Nydahl is one, that is something you'd have to determine for yourself. Also if ever my posts about teachers or so on seem overly hedged and political please forgive me - I am in a public position within my lineage and it's better for me not to engage with that kind of thing, and my personal opinions don't matter much.
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# ? Jul 30, 2017 19:35 |
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Am I the only one who thinks the name Amida Butsu is super fun to say? Give it a try. It's pretty rad.
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# ? Aug 11, 2017 19:55 |
cerror posted:Am I the only one who thinks the name Amida Butsu is super fun to say? Give it a try. It's pretty rad. I am being pestered by a Catholic priest I know for what the Buddhist attitude about Jesus is. Specifically about Jesus Himself, mind you, not "Christianity" or "Christian theology." (Apparently they teach them bullshit about Buddhism, though based on his reactions to my amateur summaries, this is because otherwise they'd lose priests to the dharma)
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# ? Aug 15, 2017 09:15 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 23:29 |
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seminaries are just really bad at teaching people about religions other than christianity unless you specifically do theology of religions, and even then you gotta be really, really fuckin good at it to not come out the other side with some hosed up ideas about like islam or hinduism or buddhism or somethin
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# ? Aug 15, 2017 10:12 |