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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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JeffersonClay posted:Except common sense and history. They don't have the luxury of living in some Bernout bubble where the republican party doesn't control the legislative and executive branches. They're not neophytes who think Republicans will hear "single payer" and think "great idea!" The question was quote:But policy-wise, how would you try to fix the exchanges in a dream world where McConnell surrenders this tomorrow and everyone says, “Hey, Sen. Manchin, you’re our guy. What do you want?” He was specifically asking them what they would do if they had the power to write a healthcare bill (you know, the power they're going to ask the country to give them in 18 months) and they had no loving idea
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Jul 4, 2017 03:38
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VitalSigns posted:I don't think a Bernie candidate would have won the district, because it was a district full of complete dickbags who only want tax cuts for them and gently caress everyone else. I doubt even Mitt Romney with a (D) next to his name would win in a place like that. That's why it was the wrong place to invest 5 million dollars, whereas the populists in poorer districts that do benefit from progressive policies achieved bigger vote swings on a shoestring budget. Hopefully the Democratic Party learns this lesson for 2018. Oh so the democrats were stupid to even try to contest the district, despite improving upon the previous margins in the house election by double digits. Clearly you are just looking out for the DNC's finances and not desperately flailing.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:39
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JeffersonClay posted:Except common sense and history. They don't have the luxury of living in some Bernout bubble where the republican party doesn't control the legislative and executive branches. They're not neophytes who think Republicans will hear "single payer" and think "great idea!" I'm not arguing that the republicans would go for single-payer, I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether or not the republicans would go for their suggestions. They could suggest things that would need to compromised or even rejected outright by the republicans in this fantasy scenario. What you're avoiding entirely is that it's obvious that the democrats don't have a plan for fixing healthcare right now, and from the responses in that article it doesn't even look like they're working on one. This is the sort of stuff they should be working on right now. They should be offering an alternate to what the republicans are offering that isn't the pre-compromised garbage that people like yourself go for.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:43
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JeffersonClay posted:Oh so the democrats were stupid to even try to contest the district, despite improving upon the previous margins in the house election by double digits. Clearly you are just looking out for the DNC's finances and not desperately flailing. No you fool, the problem is that the Democrats go apeshit for these kinds of districts while ignoring ones like Kansas' 4th, you know, a district in a state which is currently being crushed by austerity so hard that even the GOP there decided it was too much.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:45
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JeffersonClay posted:Oh so the democrats were stupid to even try to contest the district, despite improving upon the previous margins in the house election by double digits. Clearly you are just looking out for the DNC's finances and not desperately flailing. No I am questioning the strategy assumptions that made them believe this race was the race to make the most expensive house race in US history to the exclusion of other races that turned out in hindsight to be more winnable, because the outcomes have strategy implications for 2018 regarding which races to fund and what the national campaign should look like: should we try to attract Romney voters (maybe we could literally get Mitt Romney to campaign on his Path to Prosperity plan for us) and pour all our money into the richest districts with the most Panera Bread locations per capita, or do we run an economically populist campaign and prioritize districts like the ones where unfunded candidates got even bigger swings and even came closer to winning?
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Jul 4, 2017 03:45
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VitalSigns posted:He was specifically asking them what they would do if they had the power to write a healthcare bill (you know, the power they're going to ask the country to give them in 18 months) and they had no loving idea Bullshit, he asked quote:But what do Senate Democrats want to see to fix Obamacare? On Wednesday and Thursday, I interviewed six Democratic senators and two Democratic House members to ask what the party would want at the top of their health care asks from Senate Republicans. The "dream world" quote was only asked of Joe Manchin. It's not shocking that the least leftist democratic senator didn't support single-payer, and it's massively disingenuous to suggest he's representative of the party. None of the other senators or house members were asked what they'd do in a hypothetical where they didn't need to worry about Republican support. Learn to read dude.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:46
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JeffersonClay posted:Bullshit, he asked No he loving didn't, he asked variations of that quote:Obviously, Senate Democrats are overwhelmingly focused on killing this [bill]. But if this fails and McConnell asks Schumer, “What policies do Democrats want to advance in the health care system?” — what do you say?
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Jul 4, 2017 03:48
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Like it's a pretty simple question: he asked how Democrats want to fix the healthcare system and you're trying to play semantic games to excuse them from having to have any ideas of their own.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:51
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Because it's not the only way, or the best way for this issue. It is if you actually care about saving the lives of people killed by Cartels.
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Jul 4, 2017 04:05
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everyone in this thread is a worthless cuck bitch and deserves to have their throat slit report me while crying bitch (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 4, 2017 04:12
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Yawn
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Jul 4, 2017 04:13
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Think Thin! posted:everyone in this thread is a worthless cuck bitch and deserves to have their throat slit Please elaborate.
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Jul 4, 2017 04:21
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JeffersonClay posted:There's no better way to signal your politics are poo poo and you should be ignored than to suggest the democrats and republicans are indistinguishable. It takes a special kind of stupid to argue the republicans are actually better, while simultaneously fawning over Bernie Sanders' every statement and action. You know, the guy who caucuses with the democrats and campaigns for their candidate for president. I didn't say they were better. I said that under neoliberals like you who sell out to banks. Push Heritage foundation backed policies, who like Third way did, push Social Security Privatization. Who stood with Bush on Iraq. Oh and finally push loving tough on crime racism the democrats are indistinguishable. All of that you stand for,which is why you must be purged from the party.
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Jul 4, 2017 04:37
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Who What Now posted:It is if you actually care about saving the lives of people killed by Cartels. It's only the best way if you are completely disconnected from reality and history.
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Jul 4, 2017 04:40
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FuriousxGeorge posted:It's only the best way if you are completely disconnected from reality and history. How will keeping marijuana criminalized in a majority of states stop cartels?
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Jul 4, 2017 04:49
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Who What Now posted:How will keeping marijuana criminalized in a majority of states stop cartels? How will keeping alcohol illegal in a majority of states help stop bootleggers? It's a nonsense question because that isn't what's going to happen.
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Jul 4, 2017 04:57
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FuriousxGeorge posted:How will keeping alcohol illegal in a majority of states help stop bootleggers? It's a nonsense question because that isn't what's going to happen. drat, I didn't know I was talking to Nostradamus over here. Tell me what you see in the movement of the celestial spheres!
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Jul 4, 2017 04:59
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It's not going to happen anyway because the major party candidate who promised to reschedule marijuana and leave states that legalize alone lost to the Nixon-style Law and Order candidate who nominated reefer madness nutcases to run the DoJ.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:02
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VitalSigns posted:It's not going to happen anyway because the major party candidate who promised to reschedule marijuana and leave states that legalize alone lost to the Nixon-style Law and Order candidate who nominated reefer madness nutcases to run the DoJ. No, but you see, Hillary Clinton was literally going to arrest him.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:04
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Just lol if you believe anything Hillary Clinton campaigned on.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:23
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I don't really have any reason to believe she was lying about continuing Obama's states' rights policy on weed and rescheduling marijuana. I believe she was telling the truth on a lot of what she said, I also believe her when she said she would make sure single payer would never happen, that she would invite Wall Street to write the regulations on Wall Street, that she would negotiate legislation in secret with industry to keep the public from knowing what they were doing etc (I count these last two as campaign promises, just ones she made in private to Goldman Sachs and not to the public). I'm unsure about TPP. It seems like she wouldn't be able to reverse again after she publicly disavowed it like that and seems unlikely a Republican Senate would want to be seen allying up with Hillary Clinton to pass unpopular legislation. On the other hand, negotiating some quick toothless side agreements and saying "okay all the problems are fixed now, this trade deal now means good American jobs" is the most Clinton thing ever and Republicans are tools for the wealthiest 1% who apparently don't care how many Americans hate the stuff the ultrarich ask for and will even try to shove through poo poo with a 12% approval rating so who knows. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 05:35
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Who What Now posted:drat, I didn't know I was talking to Nostradamus over here. Tell me what you see in the movement of the celestial spheres! Federal alcohol prohibition is actually in our past, not our future. That is what is guiding me.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:38
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I probably missed it being posted on day 3 of the shitnado going on, but it bears reposting because its pretty emblematic of why the democrats are still hardcore sucking:gradenko_2000 posted:Vox: How do congressional Democrats want to fix Obamacare? We asked 8 of them. quote:Jeff Stein These are not suggestions the minority opposition makes when they actually want to improve things. These are waffle answers that signal "we have no intention of making huge positive changes. Fight against this attempt to repeal an inadequate bill not because we will make it better, but because we wont do anything if we get in power" "You're in the minority in congress right now, you can promise whatever to aim for and dont need to worry about compromising it right now. Go." *squirms uncontrollably* "....tin plans that renegotiate premiums? Uh, cut..wasteful spending to improve savings?" Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 06:22
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VitalSigns posted:I don't really have any reason to believe she was lying about continuing Obama's states' rights policy on weed and rescheduling marijuana. quote:URSULA BURNS: So long means thumbs up, short means thumbs down; or long means I support, short means I don’t. I’m going to start with — I’m going to give you about ten long-shorts. That's the person you can trust to reschedule marijuana and continue Obama's legacy of
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Jul 4, 2017 06:27
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I think Jon Tester's is my favorite: uh can you ask the smart senators what to doCall Me Charlie posted:That's the person you can trust to reschedule marijuana and continue Obama's legacy of Eh a lot can change in two years, 2014 was about when legalization permanently crossed 50% support, Clinton and Obama are the kind of cowardly politicians who will flip on a culture war issue the instant they think supporting it is better for their careers than continuing to oppose it, example: marriage equality. E: odd criticism coming from you since you voted to put Jefferson Beauregard O'Hara Alexander Stevens Reefermadness Punchhippies Drugwar Duterte Sessions III in charge of the DoJ 
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 06:44
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VitalSigns posted:I think Jon Tester's is my favorite: uh can you ask the smart senators what to do Oh man, don't say it too loud or rkajdi might pop in to talk about how the meritocracy proves you and all pot smokers are hill filth society needs to leave behind because Clinton and Obama are the only intellectual presidents you've had in eons.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:23
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VitalSigns posted:Like it's a pretty simple question: he asked how Democrats want to fix the healthcare system and you're trying to play semantic games to excuse them from having to have any ideas of their own. No point in coming up with something that would likely never pass, and it's not a simple question if you want it to.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:37
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JeffersonClay posted:Except common sense and history. They don't have the luxury of living in some Bernout bubble where the republican party doesn't control the legislative and executive branches. They're not neophytes who think Republicans will hear "single payer" and think "great idea!" Namaste.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:38
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Avirosb posted:No point in coming up with something that would likely never pass, and it's not a simple question if you want it to. Except there's an election coming up next year where the Democrats will be asking America to give them the power to pass legislation, and the question was: if you were put in charge of health care right now, what would you do
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Jul 4, 2017 07:48
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JeffersonClay posted:If you don't think a Bernie candidate would have won the district (as one failed to do in Montana) You mean the one who got close to no funding or attention from the DNC until just before the election, and still managed to keep it close in a deep red state? You are such a fraud.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:51
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VitalSigns posted:Except there's an election coming up next year where the Democrats will be asking America to give them the power to pass legislation, and the question was: if you were put in charge of health care right now, what would you do Healthcare is never easy and no matter what they'd say it'd just be Obamacare 2.0 to many.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:51
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Avirosb posted:No point in coming up with something that would likely never pass Actual improvements to Obamacare are not likely to pass anytime soon. Coming up with something that won't pass is a productive thing to do at this point. Grandstanding rallies the base and redefines what voters think of as politically possible.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:52
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It's funny to compare what centrists are saying here: "no point in coming up with any health care ideas until we have a supermajority or it won't pass anyway", with what the same people are saying about California single payer in the Trump thread: "oh we never wrote a real bill before and now that we have a supermajority we can't waste time writing a health care bill, that should have done before, guess we can't pass it ohhhhhhh well"
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Jul 4, 2017 07:52
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Y'know what's weird, is that today, the Democrats didn't announce that they are united in working toward single payer healthcare for america. It seems like such an easy win and the obvious moral high ground to take. Well, I guess they're just not that party. Maybe tomorrow.
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Jul 4, 2017 07:57
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Avirosb posted:No point in coming up with something that would likely never pass, and it's not a simple question if you want it to. The word "likely" is doing an awful lot of work here. JeffersonClay posted:Except common sense and history. They don't have the luxury of living in some Bernout bubble where the republican party doesn't control the legislative and executive branches. They're not neophytes who think Republicans will hear "single payer" and think "great idea!" Yes indeed, congressional dems are totally competent people who are not living in a bubble. Like, if the projection here was any harder you could open your own cinema.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:00
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I doubt America is mentally prepared for full-on socialism but it would be a welcome surprise.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:01
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Good thing that universal healthcare isn't actually Full Communism then.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:07
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VitalSigns posted:It's funny to compare what centrists are saying here: "no point in coming up with any health care ideas until we have a supermajority or it won't pass anyway", with what the same people are saying about California single payer in the Trump thread: "oh we never wrote a real bill before and now that we have a supermajority we can't waste time writing a health care bill, that should have done before, guess we can't pass it ohhhhhhh well" I don't get how they don't think of it as presenting their plan to the public and seeking their approval of it in the midterms. It's the most logical thing to do, it's what the GOP did with their endless Obamacare repeal bills. Of course, their mistake was never having an endgame in mind except for "get in power".
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Jul 4, 2017 08:07
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Avirosb posted:Healthcare is never easy and no matter what they'd say it'd just be Obamacare 2.0 to many. So what, we're pulling a Trump? "We totally have a plan, we just won't tell you guys till you elect us into a majority" probably won't work, and trying to come up with a fix that will help people but won't scare a single big money donor is not working.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:08
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Avirosb posted:Healthcare is never easy and no matter what they'd say it'd just be Obamacare 2.0 to many.   2018: Even If We Had A Plan You Probably Wouldn't Like It
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 08:10
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