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eames posted:Actually that's i9s. i7s have fewer PCIe lanes, gimped AVX implementation and as it turns out they're 7900X binning rejects not only in terms of working cores but also in terms of voltage/heat output/efficiency.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:34
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eames posted:Actually that's i9s. i7s have fewer PCIe lanes, gimped AVX implementation and as it turns out they're 7900X binning rejects not only in terms of working cores but also in terms of voltage/heat output/efficiency. I was just referring to them all cause they are the same chips  I honestly think the AVX and PCIe things are less of a deal to the actual customers. I dunno tho, i'm def not a target customer. My logic for that is that the 7800/7820 is fine for single graphics card and 10Gb NIC. And if you need to get a 4x titan/quadro kind of render box, the CPU is such a minor part of your costs that you would be getting a 7900x (or multisocket) anyway.e: (Im talkin about the LCC skylake-x's btw, not the HCC ones) Cygni fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 20:06
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I keep looking at a x299 + a 7900x or a 7820x but i just keep getting pissed off by the TIM the gimped pcie lanes and now the loving vrms of the mobo being a issue, ffs what a poo poo platform all round (Performance is killer tho)
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Jul 3, 2017 04:28
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I think the VRMs can be fixed easily, just add a real heatsink to that area. The PCI-e lanes are variable with the CPU so.. you gotta spend like a grand to get the minimum cpu with all the lanes. It's an OK platform but like you I won't spend a grand on a CPU just to get all the PCIe lanes I need. Rotten place to be.
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Jul 3, 2017 04:45
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Like take this mobo for example https://www.pccasegear.com/products/39404/gigabyte-x299-aorus-gaming-9-motherboard 3m.2 slots at 4x per comes to 12 right? Add in 2 sli 1080tis to be say 8x each thats 26pci lanes off the cpu you would need to use them all with out gping through the chipset right? So at a minimum you have to buy a 7800x or a 7820x to have some pci laned left over to make use of anything else. gently caress the concept of having a mobo that big parts of it you just cant use is loving retarded just because intel cut pcie lanes off
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Jul 3, 2017 05:45
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Aren't the six and eight cores the same chip as the ten core, which means they should be able to have the full pcie lanes? Why cut that down, when threadripper has the full 64 lanes for the entire lineup
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Jul 3, 2017 06:26
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3peat posted:Aren't the six and eight cores the same chip as the ten core, which means they should be able to have the full pcie lanes? Why cut that down, when threadripper has the full 64 lanes for the entire lineup "gently caress you, that's why" - Intel
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Jul 3, 2017 06:28
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Intel CPU and Platform Discussion: X299 and Skylake-X out now, look inside for *Fiery Hot Deals*
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Jul 3, 2017 06:31
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3peat posted:Aren't the six and eight cores the same chip as the ten core, which means they should be able to have the full pcie lanes? Why cut that down, when threadripper has the full 64 lanes for the entire lineup To get you to pay them more, duh.
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Jul 3, 2017 06:43
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Scarecow posted:Like take this mobo for example Typically only one M.2 slot is connected straight to the CPU, with the rest being from the chipset PCI-E lanes. Some very expensive boards have multiple CPU M.2 ports to use with VROC, but it's atypical. Unless you're hitting all your M.2 SSDs heavily at the same time the DMI bottleneck isn't an issue. The 7740x and 7640x can do SLI + M.2 just as the consumer versions. I really hope manufacturers make cheap Kaby-X only X299 motherboards, close enough to Z270 prices. The 7740X has substantially better overclocking and DDR4 support, and only loses to the 7700K due to the motherboard cost. G.Skill has a 2 channel only set that is QVL'd at 4800MHz, where the best you can get on Z270 is 4266MHz on literally two boards (Z270 Apex or Z170M OC formula) with lots of tweaking. Plus all overclocking reports I've seen so far have 5.1GHz as the minimum overclock with 5.3-5.4 possible for great to golden chips.
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Jul 3, 2017 09:41
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But how hot would the VRMs run for those? E: Also I can't seem to find X299 motherboard QVLs anywhere Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 09:46
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The whole VRM temperature thing would be a non-issue if motherboard manufacturers put decent heatsinks on them like they did 10 years ago. I guess they either didn't expect SL-X to clock as high as it does or simply didn't have time to come up with something better than a few inches of simple extruded aluminum on top of a 3mm thick thermal pads.  or like this: (yes this was an actual retail product) 
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Jul 3, 2017 11:25
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It's me, the goon bitching up a storm that I'd have to spend 400$ more on a CPU so that I have leftover PCIe lanes for my ~~~*SLI 1080Ti + 3 m.2 SSD SYSTEM*~~~~ # of PCIe lanes is the stupidest possible choice (OK maybe very marginally less stupid than some of the virtualization features they turned off for K series i7s vs the non -K versions) for intel to differentiate a product stack on, but still just lmao listen to these posts. e: Side note, but over 1/3 of that linked motherboard page being descriptions of all the different LEDs and LED controls is really funny to me too
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Jul 3, 2017 11:37
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Bitching about things being taken away from products 7800x with 28 pcie lanes vs 6850k with 40 pcie lanes is a valid thing not to mention the primary issue of loving thermal paste being used instead of soldier As a consumer you should be pissed that intel is offering products with artificial limits and a thermal solution thats just so terrible
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Jul 3, 2017 11:50
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As a consumer, I'm not buying one. e: I don't do anything that needs >4 cores at home, and by the time I do, we'll be in Zen2+ territory which by all current appearances will be a really very good chip. I just can't get over how funny the outraged  is over something so dumb as fuckin PCIe lanes, because of *course* we're all building home machines with SLI and mass PCIe-SSD raid arrays. Bad TIM jobs on the chips are actually loving terrible though, which would definitely drive me to buy from Silicon Lottery if I were in the market.
Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 11:58
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:But how hot would the VRMs run for those? G.Skill announced the kit working with the ASRock X299 OC Formula. They only launch stuff at a rated speed if there is a motherboard that can do it. They've had DDR4 capable of 4500+ for years but there haven't been motherboard consistently capable of doing it. There are articles from 2015 of them launching 4500MHz kits that never reached market for this reason. And the VRMs do not get hot in the slightest for the Kaby-X SKUs, they're way way lower power than the big chips. And I'm not saying that I don't think the PCI-E lane restrictions is anti-consumer as gently caress, because it is, but the amount of lanes that 99% of people buying even the enthusiast platform need is often overstated. It's an important distinction to take into account the chipset lanes. If you're spending a load of money on all the poo poo you need to connect straight to your CPU it's probably not the end of the world to stretch to threadripper or i9. It's stupid and objectively lovely from a consumer perspective though.
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Jul 3, 2017 12:28
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Scarecow posted:Like take this mobo for example I have to buy a $400 processor to go with my $850 motherboard and $1600 worth of graphics cards and $400 minimum m.2 drives? Madness.
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Jul 3, 2017 15:34
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BurritoJustice posted:G.Skill announced the kit working with the ASRock X299 OC Formula. They only launch stuff at a rated speed if there is a motherboard that can do it. They've had DDR4 capable of 4500+ for years but there haven't been motherboard consistently capable of doing it. There are articles from 2015 of them launching 4500MHz kits that never reached market for this reason. Oh, you meant the Computex news article. I found that while looking for a spreadsheet PDF on any motherboard vendor's official X299 page, but those aren't up. Point taken on the Kaby dies being relatively lower power. Still weird that its ceiling is higher at 112W despite no iGPU and a giant heatspreader--hopefully we'll find out why later.
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Jul 3, 2017 15:55
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I don't think a 7700K actually uses 91W under full load, it probably uses ~20W more. 
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Jul 3, 2017 18:33
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Call me naive, but wouldn't it throttle down as soon as its sensors detect that it's using that much power? I'm aware that measuring actual voltage/power might show a little egress over the ceiling, but not 20 watts of it....
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Jul 3, 2017 19:30
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Palladium posted:...If you are a not a massive data crunching overlord and aren't fazed by a virtually zero gain in general real world responsiveness going to NVME. I figure my main boot ssd is probably getting on in years, so I have to upgrade it, why not go for the newer tech.
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Jul 3, 2017 22:22
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Microcenter's got 7700k's for $100 off and I think I'm going to bite the bullet. I've never accounted for PCIe lanes in a build before and the 7700k is listed as having 16; how much will that really impact expandability? I've got one 980Ti and don't plan to SLI, but the board I'm looking at has two M.2 ports and I'll probably have both of them filled up eventually,. will that effect the speed of the video card? I tend to do a bunch of gaming/recording/streaming and while Ryzen sounded great in theory everything I've read on it so far still reeks of a very gen-1 offering. I'm using a 3770 right now and I'm starting to hit a CPU wall.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:31
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I'm not worried about running even the next generations videocards at pci-e 3 8X https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_PCI_Express_Scaling/
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Jul 4, 2017 17:36
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Gen 4 is coming any day now  (Probably not for consumer gear until late 2018/early 2019 though) And then Gen5 right after.. 32GT/sec per lane, baby.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:40
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H2SO4 posted:Microcenter's got 7700k's for $100 off and I think I'm going to bite the bullet. I've never accounted for PCIe lanes in a build before and the 7700k is listed as having 16; how much will that really impact expandability? I've got one 980Ti and don't plan to SLI, but the board I'm looking at has two M.2 ports and I'll probably have both of them filled up eventually,. will that effect the speed of the video card? It's going to depend on your motherboard, but chances are that the 16 lanes are going to the 2 16x slots on the motherboard (16 lanes on slot one if only one is in use, 8 lanes to each slot if both are in use). This doesn't effect video card performance in any meaningful way. Your M.2 slots are probably connected to the motherboard PCH which is connected to the CPU by DMI 3.0 which is essentially 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. These don't count against the 16 lanes we were just talking about. All devices on the motherboard share this bandwidth (sata ports, ethernet, sound cards, USB, M.2 Slots, other PCIe slots). In most cases, you are not going to see any performance issues. Your M.2 slots are the only thing that could saturate that DMI link on their own and chances are you are not going to be maxing those out while doing much with other devices at the same time. Even if you did, you probably wouldn't notice the decrease in speed.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:49
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craig588 posted:I'm not worried about running even the next generations videocards at pci-e 3 8X https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_PCI_Express_Scaling/ I do wonder how 8x affects minimums/percentiles though. Unfortunately TPU only measured average FPS 
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Jul 4, 2017 17:54
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repiv posted:I do wonder how 8x affects minimums/percentiles though. Unfortunately TPU only measured average FPS I'm interested in this too.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:18
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They'll probably do another comparison when Volta comes out, they seem to do one with every card generation, if a bunch of people bug him on Twitter or emails about adding minimum and low percent frame times he might add that for the next one.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:59
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This release seems incredibly rushed and lovely overall.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:01
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Dumb double post.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:04
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Thanks for the sanity check guys, I just grabbed the parts and will be assembling today.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:30
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 "but nobody games in 720p!"  "..." all of the benchmarks are here (machine translated): http://translate.google.com/transla...n&langpair=auto
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Jul 10, 2017 15:52
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eames posted:all of the benchmarks are here (machine translated): My biggest question: Why is the 6850K ahead of the 7800X?
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Jul 10, 2017 15:56
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lower bandwidth and higher latencies of the 50% smaller L3 cache due to the new mesh- instead of ringbus architecture It should be noted that computerbase — like the other EU press — did not receive SL-X samples at launch and arguably has a bone to pick with Intel
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Jul 10, 2017 16:09
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Those benchmarks at stock clocks? If so, I sure hope they lower the prices on remaining stock of the Broadwell-E considerably.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:20
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Yeah, stock clocks and PC-2400/PC-2666 RAM with pretty loose CL17 timings all around. I am curious what the benchmarks would look like with PC-3200 CL14.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:28
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SKL-X should be doing better than that. Pretty sure there were BIOS issues with some of the boards that heavily impacted gaming performance, Computerbase might have benched on the old BIOSs.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:45
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IIRC the x99 platform was kind of a mess early on too, wasnt it? I would probably hold off on getting anything for few months honestly. It looks like Intel has another launch coming afterall, too. This apparently was from a Intel presentation to asian resellers on May 23rd:  The rumor is that the August launch will be 3 SKUs and 1 chipset (Z370). Chips are rumored to be a 6C/12T and 6C/6T at 95W, and a 4C/4T 65W i3, all unlocked.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:25
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Tom's Hardware just published a review The Skylake-X Mess Explored: Thermal Paste And Runaway Power. Some interesting tidbits: 1) Skylake-X at its stock settings can barely be cooled during normal operation. 2) There’s barely any room for enthusiasts to overclock. 3) Although we're using some of the highest-end and most expensive cooling hardware available, we still measure up to a whopping 71 Kelvin difference between the cores' reported temperature and the heat spreader's top
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Jul 10, 2017 18:52
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Cygni posted:IIRC the x99 platform was kind of a mess early on too, wasnt it? I would probably hold off on getting anything for few months honestly. A 6C/6T Kaby Lake chip is going to suddenly make it a really competitive mainstream market and all come down to price, right?
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Jul 10, 2017 19:00
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