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A Proper Uppercut posted:I am legit afraid for Mazda. Why? They have a legit good but boring range which is probably just what's needed right now.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:21
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I might take advantage of all the incentives Ford has sometime this month. They want my leased Fusion 3 months before my term is over, and my dealer already told me I could upgrade from my current SE to a Titanium with heated/cooled seats and keep my monthly payment the same. My current car just has the appearance package and 2.0EB so it might be nice to have things like a not-completely-terrible radio, touchscreen, and auto dimming mirrors.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:24
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skipdogg posted:No idea. Off the top of my head the 2 I would be most worried about are Mitsubishi and FCA just because they've been financing almost anyone these days. Where I live you go to Mitsu or Dodge if you need a car and help getting a loan. While an auto loan bubble burst might not kill FCA, it would be a real gut punch for a company that isn't in a great position to begin with. The most recent info I can find has FCA's subprime business being 15% of its total business (e.g. over half of Charger buyers had 73-84 month loans, and nearly a quarter of all Charger buyers had <600 credit score.) Plus FCA's in-house financing partner, Santander might be in deep poo poo due to its subprime financing, doing things like verifying only 8% of borrowers' incomes. Add to that FCA's already uncompetitive lineup, industry-worst reliability, and poor cash flow and I can smell another bailout coming.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:28
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skipdogg posted:No idea. Off the top of my head the 2 I would be most worried about are Mitsubishi and FCA just because they've been financing almost anyone these days. Where I live you go to Mitsu or Dodge if you need a car and help getting a loan. FCA were doing a lot of financing through Santander who have gotten poo poo recently for approving pretty much anyone. Which explains a lot of what you are seeing. https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...ddML/story.html
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Jul 4, 2017 03:29
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Will be interesting to see the up and left stream impacts of this as well. The OEM parts people, suppliers, and supply chain. Will the glut of used cars mean that cars are treated more as a disposable item, and generally be repaired less and need fewer parts long term, or will the sheer number of them mean that more parts will be needed longer term? The housing boom saw an expansion of big box retail and home improvement stores in general, and they are now in the squeeze again. Will the car aftermarket suffer or gain? As for new cars and Korean brands, the new Hyundai N performance brand might be working on something to compete with the B,W X3M. Picture a CUV cousin of the Veloster with some go fast intentions?
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Jul 4, 2017 04:51
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Automotive aftermarkets in the us are already feeling a slight kick to the nuts due to the mild winter resulting in reduced sales of stuff related to normal winter breakage. IE: cooling system repairs to get heaters working again, winter wiper blades, plows and chains for way up north, not as many batteries dying, etc. Though the way this summer is shaping up, they'll probably see increased sales due to those delayed repairs going much more wrong. And a slow down in purchase of new vehicles helps us in that industry. People spend more on repairs if they're keeping the vehicle longer in addition to more vehicles being kept on the road needing repairs.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:04
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dissss posted:Why? They have a legit good but boring range which is probably just what's needed right now. They're a tiny company. They aren't backed by some great industrial behemoth, they aren't diversified into multiple industries, they've been on the verge of bankruptcy a few times now despite constantly making a very solid product.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:13
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IOwnCalculus posted:They're a tiny company. They aren't backed by some great industrial behemoth, they aren't diversified into multiple industries, they've been on the verge of bankruptcy a few times now despite constantly making a very solid product. Do they still benefit from the old Ford partnership? Or do they have other partnerships or platform sharing that would help? I know a lot of people who are super happy with their Mazda, but it seems they are indeed fragile from a sheer numbers perspective.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:16
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I'm ready for some goddamn cheap used cars again. The past several years of $LOL used car prices has been hosed up. Why yes, I would like to buy a 4 year old, 50k mile economy car for $2k less than new MSRP.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:37
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Q_res posted:They secured that money by selling Aston, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. What does that have to do with anything? I was pointing out, they've been the healthiest post-bailout. Jaguar and Land Rover weren't sold until 2008, when the financial crisis was in full swing. The real reason they had cash was because Allan Mulally is a genius and great CEO. Just like he did at Boeing, Mulally showed great leadership. Seeing the looming cash crunch he began to squeeze equity from factories and other production facilities taking out mortgages on them. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/business/worldbusiness/26iht-jaguar.4.11446168.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/business/09ford.html?mcubz=0
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Jul 4, 2017 05:43
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Ultimate Mango posted:Do they still benefit from the old Ford partnership? Or do they have other partnerships or platform sharing that would help? I know a lot of people who are super happy with their Mazda, but it seems they are indeed fragile from a sheer numbers perspective. everyone forgets the Fiat 124.
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Jul 4, 2017 05:46
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IOwnCalculus posted:They're a tiny company. They aren't backed by some great industrial behemoth, they aren't diversified into multiple industries, they've been on the verge of bankruptcy a few times now despite constantly making a very solid product. Mazda and Toyota agreed a to a long term tie up in 2015 calling it their engagement. The article I'm linking describes the intense level of cooperation Japanese brands are seeing from Japanese': auto makers,' heavy industry and government. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-mazda-idUSKBN0NY0P720150513 https://www.ft.com/content/6880b266-a23c-11e6-82c3-4351ce86813f The Sicilian fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 05:52
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Cop Porn Popper posted:Automotive aftermarkets in the us are already feeling a slight kick to the nuts due to the mild winter resulting in reduced sales of stuff related to normal winter breakage. IE: cooling system repairs to get heaters working again, winter wiper blades, plows and chains for way up north, not as many batteries dying, etc. Though the way this summer is shaping up, they'll probably see increased sales due to those delayed repairs going much more wrong. yeah theoretically speaking a down economy means that people are deferring new car purchase which means they're putting money in to repairs which means increase parts and service sales in practice it doesn't quite work out that directly If things go south Mitsubshi is out of automotive production (still will be a massive supplier, though). If things go really south FCA dies, maybe Tesla, and some of the Chinese brands that are useless.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:27
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Mental Hospitality posted:I might take advantage of all the incentives Ford has sometime this month. They want my leased Fusion 3 months before my term is over, and my dealer already told me I could upgrade from my current SE to a Titanium with heated/cooled seats and keep my monthly payment the same. My current car just has the appearance package and 2.0EB so it might be nice to have things like a not-completely-terrible radio, touchscreen, and auto dimming mirrors. This isn't BFC, but buying a car based on keeping your monthly payment the same is a recipe for getting absolutely hosed by a dealer.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:03
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Throatwarbler posted:everyone forgets the Fiat 124. Yeah, without the FIAT partnership, there would have been no ND Miata.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:09
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Mitsu still has a decent business in Asia and small car and truck sales, doesn't it? I thought that was why NRA bought it in the first place. Sales are slowing, cycles, advocato on toast, blah blah blah. Auto companies will adjust and survive. It will suck for a lot of their employees though.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:24
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skipdogg posted:They're already here. KIA is currently promoting 0 payments for 5 months plus 66 months 0% financing. Haven't checked other manufacturers, but there's going to be deals to be had before they finally decide to cut production. Kia has done this deal for a few years now. Its nothing new and its only available to 700+ fico score holders. They also offer no finance rebates on the cars that qualify for the promotion aside from covering 2 payments of up to $1000 total (its often less than the full $1000). Deferring 3 months of payments isn't going to sink them. At least where I'm at way more people lease Kia's than buy anyway. The take rate on this deal is like 5% of the deals my dealership writes, but it gets people in the door.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:28
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kill me now posted:Kia has done this deal for a few years now. Its nothing new and its only available to 700+ fico score holders. They also offer no finance rebates on the cars that qualify for the promotion aside from covering 2 payments of up to $1000 total (its often less than the full $1000). Deferring 3 months of payments isn't going to sink them. With the long term warranty and such, I'd think people would be more likely to buy a Kia. Are people just looking at the monthly number?
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Jul 4, 2017 14:52
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Mitsu still has a decent business in Asia and small car and truck sales, doesn't it? I thought that was why NRA bought it in the first place. Fuso, the medium/heavy CV arm, is owned by Daimler anyway. Right now Mitsu makes Kei cars and the Outlander/Pajero. NRA bought them as a contract manufacturer, essentially.
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Jul 4, 2017 16:05
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Mental Hospitality posted:I might take advantage of all the incentives Ford has sometime this month. They want my leased Fusion 3 months before my term is over, and my dealer already told me I could upgrade from my current SE to a Titanium with heated/cooled seats and keep my monthly payment the same. My current car just has the appearance package and 2.0EB so it might be nice to have things like a not-completely-terrible radio, touchscreen, and auto dimming mirrors. They don't want your car at all, they want you to come in so they can make money on you. I'm sure you can keep the same payment, but they'll probably do something like finance it for 84 months.
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Jul 4, 2017 16:09
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:yeah theoretically speaking a down economy means that people are deferring new car purchase which means they're putting money in to repairs which means increase parts and service sales Also from an actual production standpoint service items are so ridiculously tiny volumes that they can practically be ignored.
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Jul 4, 2017 16:35
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:They don't want your car at all, they want you to come in so they can make money on you. I'm sure you can keep the same payment, but they'll probably do something like finance it for 84 months. Looks like he's leasing, so they want to lock in a new lease contract for another few years, while also getting the current car on the lot for sale ( maybe the realize the residual value was too high?)
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Jul 4, 2017 16:44
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Kanish posted:Looks like he's leasing, so they want to lock in a new lease contract for another few years, while also getting the current car on the lot for sale ( maybe the realize the residual value was too high?) Its exactly this
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Jul 4, 2017 17:09
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A Proper Uppercut posted:I am legit afraid for Mazda. dissss posted:Why? They have a legit good but boring range which is probably just what's needed right now. Their range right now is excellent and every car they make is at the top of its class. Drive amazing, great looks, interior is high quality, great gas mileage. They had a goal to go up into more of the everyday-premium market that something like VW occupies and succeeded. The only thing they really need is to partsbin the 2.5T and AWD into a 3 to add some juice in the non-Miata side of the house. Their biggest problem is that they are totally unprepared for electrification and are sort of rejecting the idea that they even need to worry about it. They're spending time on compression ignition gas engines and rotaries at a time where every single R&D dollar spent on anything other than battery tech is a waste, and they're not really big enough to make a dent in it regardless. I think we're going to hit a point where Euro countries will put a final date on new gas vehicle sales and they're going to get caught flat footed. The rotary is so important to Mazda's history and it has some interesting potential application in a high-performance hybrid kind of setup or as a range extender for an EV, but I fear they're going to ride it to their demise. Ultimate Mango posted:Do they still benefit from the old Ford partnership? Or do they have other partnerships or platform sharing that would help? I know a lot of people who are super happy with their Mazda, but it seems they are indeed fragile from a sheer numbers perspective. At the end of the day, as long as they don't overextend themselves financially they could exist in the current landscape as long as they wanted. They move very slowly and cautiously, taking more time than average between refreshes and only really able to work on one thing at a time, but whatever they do they're doing very well. (Again, see how loving long it's taken for a Mazdaspeed3.) They have the engineering talent and the history to be kind of a Japanese BMW as long as they don't try to grow too fast, and they're not reliant on as much sketchy financing as their larger competitors, so maybe even in an EV world they'll become the niche gas holdout. Otherwise, I'm going to need to see some real progress on EVs from them to feel super good about them being around in 30 years.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:05
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I wouldnt say it would be a waste for R&D on gas engines. I think theyre one of the few to still work on HCCI. And enough battery R&D is done by major electronics companies and much, much bigger car companies anyways. They also probably dont have the r&d capabilities to even go half as far as other companes. If they do manage to fix HCCI and/or rotaries and slot them in neatly into their (licensed tech) hybrids theyd have a winning combination.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:45
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DEUCE SLUICE posted:
That's a good point. In that case I hope they can partner up with someone who has the electric expertise but is less good at making actual cars - maybe Toyota
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Jul 4, 2017 20:59
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I think their investment into gas R&D is a positive. There are many markets particularly the US in which full electric vehicles aren't going to be practical for most people for many many years. Owning a car that can only go 200 miles a charge is a ridiculous luxury item for most people in the US. Besides with every manufacturer and supplier researching electric drive trains if and when it becomes necessary and effective to transition to full electric it will be a commodity anyway. They should keep focusing on making good vehicles instead of going down the electric/autonomous route with their limited resources
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Jul 4, 2017 22:43
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Unless you are a specialist or a gigantor manufacturer, why r&d on electric? It's going to cost you way too much to compete when you're already behind, and will raise your vehicle price point into uncomfortable territory between luxury and affordable brands. Mazda has a focus right now and is killing it in their segment (in terms of product anyway, they deserve good sales  ). Let everyone else battle it out for least-lovely entry-level electric and go clean up when battery tech costs a fraction in ten years. Though I have to say continuing to push the diesel is a bit of a head scratcher, unless gas goes to $5 real soon.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:22
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Kanish posted:Looks like he's leasing, so they want to lock in a new lease contract for another few years, while also getting the current car on the lot for sale ( maybe the realize the residual value was too high?) Yeah, the bottom line is they want to make money. The dealer never "wants" your car.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:39
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Yeah, the bottom line is they want to make money. The dealer never "wants" your car. They deffo don't want my wife's current lease with the based in oil pan, dented exhaust and extensive body damage. The residual is $18,600 which is about $3k below what a similar example with the miles go for so might just buy it out at the end of the lease.
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Jul 5, 2017 01:09
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BigPaddy posted:They deffo don't want my wife's current lease with the based in oil pan, dented exhaust and extensive body damage. The residual is $18,600 which is about $3k below what a similar example with the miles go for so might just buy it out at the end of the lease. That's if they even look at it. I traded in an SC400 with extensive front bumper damage under a car bra and they never checked. Also later on when I traded in my S4 it had lovely winter wheels on it and I asked which they wanted and they said they didn't so so that's what they got. A couple weeks later they called me asking if I had the OEM wheels and if they could have them but I already sold them on craigslist.
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Jul 5, 2017 01:16
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Mazda doesn't have the R&D budget to be a first mover in electrification. They'll buy a bunch of OTS components from suppliers once the market has matured a bit.
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Jul 5, 2017 08:36
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Speaking of electrification. Volvo has announced that within two years, all of their new vehicles will be hybrid or electric only and diesel is out for good.
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Jul 5, 2017 13:49
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Infinotize posted:Unless you are a specialist or a gigantor manufacturer, why r&d on electric? It's going to cost you way too much to compete when you're already behind, and will raise your vehicle price point into uncomfortable territory between luxury and affordable brands. Mazda has a focus right now and is killing it in their segment (in terms of product anyway, they deserve good sales I see this sentiment in AI all the time and I can't tell if it's just echo chamber crap or if everyone here really believes Mazda's current lineup is really the top of the heap. Their vehicles are often underpowered, have garbage infotainment systems, have nice looking but cheap and plasticity feeling interiors that start to rattle after a few years, and they also have super garbage chip prone paint. They may drive a bit more sporty then the competitors, but most people don't care about that. There is a reason Mazda's sales numbers don't set the world on fire even though they are nicely styled and reasonably priced.
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Jul 5, 2017 14:00
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IOwnCalculus posted:They're a tiny company. They aren't backed by some great industrial behemoth, they aren't diversified into multiple industries, they've been on the verge of bankruptcy a few times now despite constantly making a very solid product. At the last Mazda launch I went to they made point of discussing this. They say they know they can't compete with the big OEMs so they're happy with a small slice of the pie which they'll keep buy building cars that are good to drive. We'll see if it works.
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Jul 5, 2017 14:39
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Annicdote but my room mate's gf bought a used for fusion over a used Mazda 3 or 6 because it's interior was much nicer for the money. She thought both were cute but 1-2 year old used fusions are stupid cheap compared to Mazdas. She didn't care about mpg, power, or handling. Honestly I really like riding in her fusion, it feels like a much more expensive car than it was to me at least.
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Jul 5, 2017 14:54
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drgitlin posted:At the last Mazda launch I went to they made point of discussing this. They say they know they can't compete with the big OEMs so they're happy with a small slice of the pie which they'll keep buy building cars that are good to drive. We'll see if it works. Once upon a time Mitsubishi tried to take Toyota, Honda, and Nissan on and look how that turned out. Mazda will want to avoid that fate. Also they actually build good cars (as opposed to bad ones).
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Jul 5, 2017 14:56
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My family has a lot of Mazda nostalgia, so we were pretty disappointed when we test drove the Mazda 6 a year or two back. It was fine, but it wasn't the driving nirvana I expected after reading so many glowing reviews. Interior wasn't great either. On the bright side, the Mazda 3 definitely seems more competitive in its segment.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:00
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Residency Evil posted:My family has a lot of Mazda nostalgia, so we were pretty disappointed when we test drove the Mazda 6 a year or two back. It was fine, but it wasn't the driving nirvana I expected after reading so many glowing reviews. Interior wasn't great either. On the bright side, the Mazda 3 definitely seems more competitive in its segment. 6es are fine cars, but it's in the most competitive segment and you can usually get its competitors either cheaper or in a higher trim for the same money. I really want to like it, but Sonatas / Optimas are great too and dirt fuckin cheap, and you can get fully loaded all whizbang-tech Fusions with the 2.0 ecoboost for the same price as a mid-spec Mazda 6.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:05
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I owned a loaded Mazda 3 2.5 when the current model came out in 2014. When I first got it I thought it was amazing. After 3 years I came to realize it's chintzy and they cut a lot of corners. The paint is crap, the sheet metal is like that of a beer can. The engine has a really frustrating delay when you try to floor it and it feels gutless and lacklustre. I would go as far as saying that the Honda Civic with the 1.5T is a much much better car. I like the Civic way way more than my Mazda. This is something I wouldn't have been able to say with the older models.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:58
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