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My Austrian experience so far: They are good and have character. I'd like to interject "but haven't blown me away yet", but it's a bit unfair when they all cost less than $35. It's unfair to expect $100 amount of boom from a $30 stick of dynamite. So as far as the never ending hunt for value is concerned, it carries on, but I will definitely keep on exploring Austria, particularly reds. The whites seem to want to be German Riesling a bit too much, but the reds have less to prove I guess so they have more character. Have had a few, the chorus is "Good, fine, bit of bramble, lots of stone, character, acidity". The Heinrich Leithaberg 2011 which I got so excited about a few posts up, was a sulfurous let down. Not in a NO SO2-kind of way, but a bottle fault I think. Big matchstick, egg fart thing going on. Let it air for 4 hours, settled down ok enough and revealed some Côte Rôtie-an smoke (as Kasumeat hinted about) bramble and pepper. But not the texture, darkness or bloody meat. Thinner, cooler and more acidity. Going to try it again, see if the sulfur monster is gone. A big trend now in Norwegian restaurants, which I believe has been discussed here, is Jura Chardonnay. Are you drinking this? A recent experience is a 2010 Jean Bourdy Cõtes du Jura and I'm very impressed. $26, huge nose, bigger than some $100 1er cru Burgs but without the same elegance. Excellent. I am not an elegant man, I want Burgundy's mystery and pungency, elegance is wasted on me. Oak, definitely, but the Burgundy kind of oak where you're not quite sure where the barrel ends and the grape begins. Thumbs up to this trend. e: his website spooked me, as it looks like the current WannaCry attacks http://www.cavesjeanbourdy.com/ If there's something the world of wine needs, it's a particularly fierce anti-comic sans web design brigade. Ola fucked around with this message at 18:07 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 18:00
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Anyone have any recommendations for good small CA wine producers that ship? I recently discovered Broc Cellars https://broc-cellars.myshopify.com/ and Martha Stoumen https://marthastoumen.com/ and have been impressed and wanting to get more similar stuff, weirder varietals, more natural, etc. Definitely want to try more.
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Jun 2, 2017 04:52
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Jerome Louis posted:Anyone have any recommendations for good small CA wine producers that ship? I recently discovered Broc Cellars https://broc-cellars.myshopify.com/ and Martha Stoumen https://marthastoumen.com/ and have been impressed and wanting to get more similar stuff, weirder varietals, more natural, etc. Definitely want to try more. My wheelhouse. Baxter - Mainly Pinot and Chard, although they do some Carignan and Montepulciano. Really elegant Pinots and Chards. Lighter, more acid and earth driven style. Donkey and Goat - Natural wines, can be pretty funky. Whites can be a little too weird for me, but the reds are actually pretty stellar. Super peppery Rhone style wines. AmByth Estate - Another natural winery. They dry farm, all organic, the only fully certified biodynamic winery in Paso Robles. I loving LOVE his varietal Grenache, but the whole lineup is pretty cool. Alquimista Cellars - Buy his Zinfandel. It's unlike any other Zin you'll ever have. Bright ruby in color, it's more like a more pepper/spice driven Pinot. Super pretty. 129 year old vineyard out in Lodi, cofermented with old school California grapes rarely seen anymore: Black Price, Flame Tokay and Mission. The winemaker, Greg La Follette, is brilliant and the nicest guy. He was Andre Tchelistcheff's last protegé before he died. I almost don't want to direct anyone here because the wines are so good and such small production. I bought the last case of that 2014 Manchester Ridge Pinot that they had. Literally, the winemaker said he didn't even save any for himself. It's truly one of the greatest Pinot Noirs I've ever had, from anywhere. Kalin Cellars - Oddball project from a former biochemist, they release wines "when they taste good", which means their current release wines are their 95 Chardonnay, 99 Pinot and 01 Semillon. Very traditional, old world winemaking methods. Beautiful wines, and you'd expect them to be a lot more expensive given the age. Also, check out that motherfuckin' website. That poo poo is a portal into the 90s, and yet he's still updating it. I like small CA stuff. If you're looking for a particular grape or style I could think up other producers, too.
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Jun 2, 2017 12:09
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Potentially dumb question here as I'm pretty new to wine so apologies in advance - I recently opened a bottle of Jean Foillard Morgon Cote du Py 2015 which was bought on recommendation (as I love Cru Beaujolais), and the first glass (I didn't decant or let it sit) had a very distinct buzz on the tongue - i.e. slight effervescence - the exact same as I've encountered when pre-packaged fruit like pineapple slices starts to ferment. It kind of overpowered the taste/nose of the wine leaving it quite simple and muted. However, trying it again after leaving it for an hour or so, it was gone, and the wine opened up and became pretty pleasant. Was this what I suspect and some sort of slight secondary fermentation? I believe it's a low sulfur wine, is this kind of fault par for the course or was I just unlucky? Is it the kind of fault you can bring the bottle back to the store for (finished or not)? pantsfree fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 22:08
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Yes, refermentation in bottle is quite common in low so2 wines and in my experience tends to produce off flavours. As to whether you can return it, that's going to vary from source to source. Some feel it's a natural part of natural wines, others think it's a fault. You'll have to ask your retailer.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:23
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A tiny bit of spritz in a fancy Foillard is expected. It's a reason that wine is recommended to decant. I'm not sure if it's secondary (I think it's likely a result of a heavy carbonic maceration which can sometimes present as spritz in my experience), and I might be a little more into the natural wine thing than Kasumeat, but with that wine I'd call a light dusting of light fizzy texture par for the course and I certainly don't think it's a negative. If you liked it after the fizz blew off, try the Cuvee Corcelette. And if you want to dive in to this sort of bojo, there's plenty of there there.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:47
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For the Cali wine guy, I'm pretty sure La Clarine Farm ship. But also look to stores that would happily ship to you. I'm pretty sure Ordinaire does, and there's always places like K&L with big selection and some good local names.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:49
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Jerome Louis posted:Anyone have any recommendations for good small CA wine producers that ship? I recently discovered Broc Cellars https://broc-cellars.myshopify.com/ and Martha Stoumen https://marthastoumen.com/ and have been impressed and wanting to get more similar stuff, weirder varietals, more natural, etc. Definitely want to try more. When I was in Napa last year, my wife and I stopped by Holman Cellars, which consists of three guys who are making wine together. They're friendly dudes, and the main one (name of Jason) was an intern at Ancien Wines a while back. My wife and I have been members of the Ancien wine club for several years now, and enjoy all of their stuff, so that was a fun connection to make. They both ship at least up to Washington, and I can't imagine why they wouldn't ship further out? I don't know where they fall on the "weirder varietals, more natural" spectrum, but they are both good and fairly small.
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Jun 5, 2017 03:23
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Jerome Louis posted:Anyone have any recommendations for good small CA wine producers that ship? I recently discovered Broc Cellars https://broc-cellars.myshopify.com/ and Martha Stoumen https://marthastoumen.com/ and have been impressed and wanting to get more similar stuff, weirder varietals, more natural, etc. Definitely want to try more. Send me a pm  If Foillard is doing mostly carbonic like prok says, a little spritz isn't a problem. Carbon dioxide is easily absorbed by wine, and aggressively blanketing your macerations with CO2 (which is basically carbonic maceration in a nutshell) will result in a little CO2 fizz. Kasumeat is also right in that low SO2 wines can definitely go off in bottle and referment, but you wouldn't be describing the wine as "pleasant" in that case - it's pretty noticably off. BTW seconding the La Clarine Farm for small Cali producers. Yummy wine, and Hank and Caroline are awesome people. J Brix is another neat producer, down south out of San Diego. And not strictly wine, but Hoxie Spritzer did a collab with Field Recordings called Foxie Spritzer that's a pink peppercorn\pear-infused sparkling wine that is loving nuts.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:56
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Speaking of no/low-SO2 wine, here is an article I was really happy to see: https://www.meininger.de/en/wine-business-international/why-do-some-wines-taste-of-mouse-cage IMO this is THE most problematic fault with these wines, and it hasn't been talked about much. Here's how I'd describe it: 1. Not aromatic, can only be tasted 2. Present only on the finish and builds and lingers for quite a while 3. Tastes like vomit 4. Gets worse and worse the longer the wine has been open It's really tragic because it's present on some otherwise-delicious wines. The wines of Lucy Margaux come to mind: they're perhaps my favourite in all of Australia until the finish kicks in, but this fault is present on most of them and really mars them for me, and makes them totally unusable as a glass pour. A question for those of you, especially those of you who drink natural wine on the reggie: Do you taste this fault? Because apparently not everyone can taste it, and I think that would go a long way in explaining how these wines can be so divisive.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:57
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That's really common in poorly done sour beers, one of my least favorite off-flavors. I've only experienced it in a small number of wines and it was at very low intensity compared to what I've tasted in beer. Thanks to those who suggested some vendors that I can order from. Haven't gotten the chance to buy anything yet but I will be checking some stuff out soon.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:04
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Kasumeat posted:Do you taste this fault? I've never tasted it in wine I've bought in a store, but think I've tasted it in home made fruit wine and cider. Not sure though, hazy memory. I don't think I'm immune to the taste, but I do think the Norwegian importers are good at sheltering me from the weirdest stuff.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:15
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Yeah I've had it in some wild ferment ciders
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Jun 5, 2017 22:51
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For an article that begins with "Imagine a yoghurt manufacturer decides one day that using predictable laboratory-cultured lactic bacteria to create their product compromises its integrity. They decide to market a completely “natural” yoghurt where the milk is left to ferment at will, without any additions, interventions, or preservatives." it's not as abjectly terrible as I'd expect. But it's full of scaremongering and, to me, overstates the case. I've had mousy wine, sure. It's unpleasant. But I've had far more unpleasant commercial wine (admittedly, not faulted - just insipid, and to me that's worse), and I appreciate that the radical, almost political, nature of the hardcore naturalists is exerting pressure on the whole industry. For some content, here's the last few (natty) bottles I've had.  The Trousseau was light and lovely, by Philippe Bornard. Great spice on the back. The Sans was also really good - super juicy. Marissa Ross has a good review. Clos Saron is always reliable, and the Old Man's Reserve was no disappointment. Double decanted and drunk with dinner, this was awesome, with plenty of primary fruit and plenty of secondary development at the same time. You gently caress My Wine is made of Jurançon Noir, a grape that used to be permitted in Cahors. It was lighter than I expected, juicy, spicy, and deeply food friendly. It felt very laid back, if that makes sense.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:55
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Kasumeat posted:Yes, refermentation in bottle is quite common in low so2 wines and in my experience tends to produce off flavours. As to whether you can return it, that's going to vary from source to source. Some feel it's a natural part of natural wines, others think it's a fault. You'll have to ask your retailer. pork never goes bad posted:A tiny bit of spritz in a fancy Foillard is expected. It's a reason that wine is recommended to decant. I'm not sure if it's secondary (I think it's likely a result of a heavy carbonic maceration which can sometimes present as spritz in my experience), and I might be a little more into the natural wine thing than Kasumeat, but with that wine I'd call a light dusting of light fizzy texture par for the course and I certainly don't think it's a negative. Cool, thanks guys. It hadn't occurred to me that it could be a result of carbonic maceration. I've never encountered it before in wine. I perceived it as a negative as it initially overwhelmed everything else and left the wine tasting quite simple. Once it started to dissipate there was a lot more fruit and complexity to be found. I thought there was a touch of funkiness present but that may be intentional. I'm a big fan of lambic etc so I'm not bothered by that either.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:03
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Kasumeat posted:Speaking of no/low-SO2 wine, here is an article I was really happy to see: I saw that article, and was really excited to finally have some answers to this gross fault. I don't pour natural wines BTG ever because of this, and frankly rarely buy them for the cellar at all. I find it to be extremely widespread in the natural wine community, which I've always found really disappointing because often I absolutely love the up front aromas and flavors.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:33
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I'm starting to see a slow pushback against no-SO2 wines... not the initial (and continuing) knee-jerk reaction from the mainstream, but at least a willingness to admit that no/low SO2 use can result in flaws. Some people/wine bars/etc double down and embrace the wines for those faults, but I think gnarlier stuff is starting to get called out or put aside for what it is. Personally mousiness drives me loving crazy, and it's one of the main reason I use sulfur in my own wines. I think "vomit" is not a very accurate way to describe it, but it does ruin a wine for me. It's very literally the smell of a mouse or rat or any small rodent, really - if you've ever smelled a hamster cage it smells like that without the sawdust. It isn't a gross smell necessarily, but it definitely detracts from a wine.
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Jun 6, 2017 01:31
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I have a question for those of you reading this who are only very casually (or not at all) into wine: What is your perception of bottles larger than the standard 750 mL? Do they look cheap? Exciting? Don't give a gently caress?
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Jun 16, 2017 21:48
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Kasumeat posted:I have a question for those of you reading this who are only very casually (or not at all) into wine: What is your perception of bottles larger than the standard 750 mL? Do they look cheap? Exciting? Don't give a gently caress? Cheap up to 1.5L. Sorta like a handle of booze. I just don't expect it to be good. Exciting beyond that.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:58
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Kasumeat posted:I have a question for those of you reading this who are only very casually (or not at all) into wine: What is your perception of bottles larger than the standard 750 mL? Do they look cheap? Exciting? Don't give a gently caress? With a cage top: the bigger the better, nebukanuzzaltazars omg Without; Oh it's french, listen to whoever owns the place, I don't care Else: Don't understand the big container, but have your thing brought a non-festive liquid in a non-festive context etc etc...
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Jun 16, 2017 22:08
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Oh and does it change if it's a luxury brand you recognize? Ie. Moët Champagne, Caymus, etc.
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Jun 16, 2017 22:19
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Does for me.
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Jun 16, 2017 22:56
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I love large formats because more wine is better. But I would say that I wouldn't order a wine in a large format if I wasn't familiar with it, or at least familiar with the producer and/or region. It's also a godsend for dining with a large group of people, because you don't have to gently caress around with multiple bottles quite as much. Even a magnum doesn't go very far when you have 8 people at a table all drinking wine. On another note: my local favourite wine store got some Basque cider in. It was a bit pricey, but I'm giving it a go because I've had very good luck with Spanish cider in the past. Hopefully it's worth it.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:15
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PT6A posted:On another note: my local favourite wine store got some Basque cider in. It was a bit pricey, but I'm giving it a go because I've had very good luck with Spanish cider in the past. Hopefully it's worth it. Dude, Basque cidre is loving ammmmaaaaazziinng. It's all cloudy and bretty and messy--the kinds of things you should love. It really shouldn't be expensive, though. The first one I ever had was French Basque called Txopinondo and it should retail for no more than $20 a bottle.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:19
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PT6A posted:It's also a godsend for dining with a large group of people, because you don't have to gently caress around with multiple bottles quite as much. Even a magnum doesn't go very far when you have 8 people at a table all drinking wine. When I got married, my parents were in charge of organizing the rehearsal dinner, as I guess is common for the groom's family. The wedding was in Michigan, but my parents really wanted to have some Washington wine from a winery they really like, and where they are good friends with the owner. The venue said it was okay to bring in your own wine, but they would assess a corkage fee per bottle opened. My parents mentioned this to the winery owners, and they said, "no problem, we'll just give you a methusela". One bottle opened, one corkage fee paid, and everybody at the dinner got some wine.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:52
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Did they get some cool apparatus to manage the bottle while pouring? Siphon? Do you have pictures?
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Jun 17, 2017 17:05
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Subjunctive posted:Did they get some cool apparatus to manage the bottle while pouring? Siphon? Do you have pictures? The classic way is to make a sort of cradle out of a tablecloth and sling it under shoulder. That way you can basically bow to pour.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:02
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Overwined posted:Dude, Basque cidre is loving ammmmaaaaazziinng. It's all cloudy and bretty and messy--the kinds of things you should love. It really shouldn't be expensive, though. The first one I ever had was French Basque called Txopinondo and it should retail for no more than $20 a bottle. Yeah, that's about what it cost, but that's super expensive compared to local cider (which would be like $4 for the same amount, and probably a lot shittier). EDIT: Opened it tonight. Yeah, it's worth it. Bigly. PT6A fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 01:30
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Coca Koala posted:When I got married, my parents were in charge of organizing the rehearsal dinner, as I guess is common for the groom's family. The wedding was in Michigan, but my parents really wanted to have some Washington wine from a winery they really like, and where they are good friends with the owner. The venue said it was okay to bring in your own wine, but they would assess a corkage fee per bottle opened. My parents mentioned this to the winery owners, and they said, "no problem, we'll just give you a methusela". Pretty stupid venue. Most places charge per 750ml so you can't just skirt corkage fees.
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Jun 19, 2017 10:07
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Kasumeat posted:I have a question for those of you reading this who are only very casually (or not at all) into wine: What is your perception of bottles larger than the standard 750 mL? Do they look cheap? Exciting? Don't give a gently caress? Industry feedback - both my CA and NY distributors love getting magnums, and I'm pretty sure I could sell them a lot more at this point. Part of that is probably because I price my mags pretty low - just same as a regular case. I got into wine when you could get mags of Pepiere's regular cuvee for like $35 bucks, and it's loving awesome to buy a rad mag that you can blast on a summer day at that price. Based on FOB pricing and depending on store, I'm assuming my Albarino mags are gonna end up somewhere around $40-50 retail, and there are enough people into the natty side of things in those markets that I think they'll be a pretty easy sell. I have no idea how that works when you're repping the bigger boys, either on the Silver Oak or Kendall Jackson side of things. They seem to be pretty hot coming from micro-scale guys like me tho.
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Jun 20, 2017 06:32
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I put our Rosé in Flint Hock 1.5L. I made 30 @ 6packs and we are selling out quick. It's a hell of a package. Will be awesome to bring to a 4th of July party.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:52
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Understandably, there aren't a lot of casual wine drinkers here. But I asked this because while I know everybody in the industry thinks large formats are sexy, I think casual drinkers view them as a little trashy. My owner and GM have huge boners for mags and love it when I pour them for wine pairings, but I honestly think that casual wine drinkers—who are more likely to think that large formats are priced better rather than worse than bottles—view them as a little trashy. A mag of Veuve though? They might get excited about that. Maybe.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:37
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I'm a fairly casual wine drinker and would generally agree with that. Had a magnum in a restaurant a few months ago when the people I was with were more interested in getting drunk than having dinner. It's like a half step up from a box of wine for me. I guess if it was bigger than a magnum, particularly at a formal event then it's cool though.
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Jun 22, 2017 23:10
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Box wines are great in concept for anything that you're going to drink by the glass, but unfortunately the wine available in boxes is usually poo poo, so they have a heinous image. Magnums on the other hand, I don't think I've seen a garbage wine in. I always associate magnums with high end poo poo that I can't afford unless someone else is paying, generally. PT6A fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 00:17
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I totally get wh re you're coming from when you're looking st $10 supermarket mags; that poo poo is trashy as hell. But there are very reasonably priced mags out there from smaller producers that kind of flip that on its head by being fun and exciting to drink. A mag of Bojo for like $60-70 that you can share with a bunch of friends is really fun. Def more of a hand sell tho. Re: boxed wine, Jenny & Francois put out three great boxed wines (red white rose) for 35-40 bucks retail that's worth finding. "From The Tank" is the name. $35-40 for a 3 liter box.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:18
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In London, a lot of the magnums you will see in restaurants tend to be pretty traditional/safe/boring, that seem to be aimed at bankers who want to impress (Bordeaux, CNDP, Champagne) and often are worse value than their 750ml equivalents, and I've never seen anyone buy one. Trendier wine bars and shops do seem to be keen to stock more interesting things in magnums, though, and they seem to be really well received. Likewise for slightly unconventional bottles, i.e. Unlitro was very, very popular: https://www.noblefineliquor.co.uk/collections/italy/products/ampeleia-unilitro-rosso-2013-tuscany Otherwise, the only time you really see larger format bottles are the trashy huge (3L+) plastic bottles of French Rose that are showing up more and more frequently at events, street food venues etc. I've been meaning to pick up one of Le Grappin's 'Bagnums' to try - 1.5L bags-not-in-box, hear good things about the wine, be super convenient to bring to a BBQ. i.e. https://www.eebria.com/products/wine/le-grappin/2575-rouge-du-grappin-bagnum-beaujolais-villages
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Jul 4, 2017 12:28
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If this has been posted on before I'm sorry but what the gently caress is it with Australian bottle shops making most anything worth drinking '2 for [pissweak discount]' but $3-5 over for a single. Hello. I like wine. I will drink the wine in my house – until it's gone. Make me buy more for a reasonable price per bottle OR overcharge/punish me for trying to limit my intake. It's a mind-game in that the outlets in this country have some statistical data that the more we buy the more we drink. Make it cheaper by a lot to buy 6 or even 2. Disclaimer: I'm 1st glass into second bottle of Riesling right now.
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Jul 5, 2017 13:04
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BastardAus posted:If this has been posted on before I'm sorry but what the gently caress is it with Australian bottle shops making most anything worth drinking '2 for [pissweak discount]' but $3-5 over for a single. I love this post.
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Jul 5, 2017 13:29
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BastardAus posted:If this has been posted on before I'm sorry but what the gently caress is it with Australian bottle shops making most anything worth drinking '2 for [pissweak discount]' but $3-5 over for a single. If you had bought a magnum you'd be just a little over halfway, and wouldn't you feel better about that? Of course you would! Therefore magnums are better, QED.
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Jul 5, 2017 19:29
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Whats the best option(s) for wine storage, with some bottles being 500ml (same radial dimensions as a 750, just shorter)? I'm looking to put freestanding storage in a cupboard. I'm looking for something roughly 6 bottles tall, 4 wide, but I could fit something of a larger dimension. This is for short-term (< 1 year) storage, not aging, mainly just a way to organize my bottles at home.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:20
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