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this is a stupid discussion because the most you would manage to get is another boilerplate contract line
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Jul 4, 2017 16:55
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before you idiotically suggest that we ban contracts from providing that the debt can be freely assigned without consent, let me introduce you to something called the bond market
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Jul 4, 2017 16:56
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I'm just saying - the old fdcpa interpretation had some teeth. Lawyers could actually afford to pursue claims against the bad actors. The new interpretation is bad for consumers because it will allow debt buyers to use ridiculous tactics to collect on purchased consumer debts. Let's not forget that unsophisticated consumers are very different from bond buyers and multi national conglomerates.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:05
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El Mero Mero posted:My debt got sold to a big servicer who's website was so broken when I went to make a larger payment than the minimum the website cleared my entire debt, automatically reported my debt as clear to everyone involved and sent me a thank you letter. lol that owns.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:08
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GlyphGryph posted:There is nothing but positives, society wise, from banning the resale of debts. Nah.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:12
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There are no possible downsides at all to this huge massive change to how things are done, says the ignorant fool.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:14
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GlyphGryph posted:I dont see why an entity that has ceased to exist should be able to continue collecting debts.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:19
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I agree that further regulation of required documentation of debt transactions makes a great deal of sense. Banning debt resale does not.Dead Reckoning posted:That's like saying that changing your last name when you get married or divorced should clear your debts. Barring things like "all of their employees, assets, equipment, and property being destroyed by the vengeful hand of god in the blink of an eye," companies rarely "cease to exist." The 2016 election toxx ban was against Discendo Vox, the toxxholder. DISCENDO VOX, a freedposter on the forums, does not recognize this debt. tetrapyloctomy posted:I've been considering calling the federal loan ombudsman to complain about how opaque they're making the process, but I don't know if it'll change anything and I don't want to waste my time. I'd consider refinancing, but I'm currently at just under 2% and I doubt I'll get better terms. (Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, it's better to invest the money instead. I want to pay off my loans.) Call the ombud. Lack of reporting is actually a huge bottleneck in this area.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:28
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I Like Jell-O posted:And can you think of an example where a contract can't be sold? I'm sure they're out there, but nothing comes to mind. Aside from the two examples I gave earlier, (c) it's very common for contracts to restrict assignment without the counterparty's consent and (d) the licensee of intellectual property cannot assign their license by default.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:28
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Subjunctive posted:Could you talk me through how that applies? It's not an area of expertise for me, which is why I was asking. 1) As a general rule, you can't sell/assign contracts for personal service nor enforce them thru specific performance. Generally, you can't make someone work for someone they don't want to. 2) yes, big time. quote:I'm just saying - the old fdcpa interpretation had some teeth. Lawyers could actually afford to pursue claims against the bad actors. The new interpretation is bad for consumers because it will allow debt buyers to use ridiculous tactics to collect on purchased consumer debts. Let's not forget that unsophisticated consumers are very different from bond buyers and multi national conglomerates. Never realized people were going to get so salty over debt buying EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 18:32
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ulmont posted:Aside from the two examples I gave earlier, (c) it's very common for contracts to restrict assignment without the counterparty's consent and (d) the licensee of intellectual property cannot assign their license by default. Thank you. I think I'm confusing myself between selling contracts directly and selling a company that owns a contract.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:06
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Discendo Vox posted:Call the ombud. Lack of reporting is actually a huge bottleneck in this area.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:24
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EwokEntourage posted:Never realized people were going to get so salty over debt buying Bad actors are doing this otherwise normal and essential activity, therefore it SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. See also: free speech
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Jul 4, 2017 21:04
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Dead Reckoning posted:Bad actors are doing this otherwise normal and essential activity, therefore it SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. more like "some things are done badly so the things being done badly need to be regulated to a less bad way" See also: free speech
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Jul 4, 2017 21:06
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tetrapyloctomy posted:They tried to argue that this was how all loans operate, which is, well, completely not how every other loan repayment I've been involved in has worked. My mortgage doesn't do that. My car payments on five different vehicles have never done that. My loans prior to these guys buying them did not work like that. I'm actually genuinely confused here. Don't pretty much all loans operate this way? I've never seen a mortgage that doesn't. I'd rather use your mortgage example since it's the one I'm most familiar with. If you owe $1000 in July, and pay $2000 -- how is the money split up?
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Jul 4, 2017 21:53
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El Mero Mero posted:My debt got sold to a big servicer who's website was so broken when I went to make a larger payment than the minimum the website cleared my entire debt, automatically reported my debt as clear to everyone involved and sent me a thank you letter. did this actually stick? They didn't figure it out and try to reverse the error?
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Jul 4, 2017 21:55
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It sounds like there is so little in the way of regulation on debt that I could just make up some bullshit debt on a random person and force them to pay me, is that actually true?
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Jul 4, 2017 21:57
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:It sounds like there is so little in the way of regulation on debt that I could just make up some bullshit debt on a random person and force them to pay me, is that actually true? Yes, in that it happens all the time. No, in that you can't legally do that. Piell fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 22:00
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Yes, you can commit fraud to steal people's money. It is, in fact, a pretty common thing people do.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:02
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Yes, you can commit fraud to steal people's money. It is, in fact, a pretty common thing people do. and if you're a large enough organization you can do it routinely and never be punished for it
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Jul 4, 2017 22:07
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Chuu posted:I'm actually genuinely confused here. Don't pretty much all loans operate this way? I've never seen a mortgage that doesn't. I'd rather use your mortgage example since it's the one I'm most familiar with. If you owe $1000 in July, and pay $2000 -- how is the money split up? If I pay $1000 extra on my mortgage, all of my overpayment goes toward decreasing the principal, while the first $1000 is split up as per whatever my repayment schedule, calculated when I signed the mortgage, says. Same with my car payments. Let's hypothesize a scenario where you take a $100,000 loan out at 4% over thirty years. Your monthly payment is $477 and the first payment is due on November 1st. The total amount you pay off over that thirty years is $171,870. Every month you pay x amount of principal, and $477-x in interest. (We're going to ignore fees., escrow, etc.) Right off the bat, you start making double-payments. For my mortgage and my cars, what that means is that for my first payment: - Principal decreases by x due to the scheduled payment plus $477 (all of the overpayment). - My due date for my second payment is still December 1st. Many lenders default to MOVING YOUR PAYMENT DATE AHEAD instead. So when you send in that first check: - Principal decreases by x due to the scheduled payment plus (approximately, because interest accrued each month is different as they contain different number of days, because your calculated principal is lower with each payment, etc.) x from the overpayment. - Your next due date is December 1st. Now, you'll still pay off your loan faster. But because interest is calculated from principal, and you didn't pay off as much principal in the second scenario, the lender gets more money out of you over time. This is what NelNet does, and while I may have fixed it by telling them "Do not advance my due date," the way they set up their bills does not actually allow me to confirm that all of my overpayment is going to principal. It is baldly clear they do this in order to confuse the consumer and to attempt to extract as much money out of them over the life of the loan as possible. Other lenders I've had have defaulted to the second scenario (school loans are famous for this), But NelNet is the only lender I've ever had for anything that did not allow you to look at the bill and determine immediately how your overpayments were being distributed. I cannot make this more clear to anyone who has any loans that they are paying off at an accelerated rate right no: if you did not already know what I just wrote, check your loans this second to make sure that all of your overpayment is being applied to principal. It is super-common for people to think that's what's happening and they get screwed out of a decent chunk of money over the life of the loan. poo poo, I know this and I still got caught up in it, because the NelNet representative I spoke with when my loan got swapped over a few years back basically lied to me over the phone.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:20
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Yes, you can commit fraud to steal people's money. It is, in fact, a pretty common thing people do. No poo poo. But if there is no regulation and no widespread enforcement of laws against fraud those laws de facto do not exist. We are not just talking about needing to take people to court, which in itself is difficult and expensive enough to be off limits for a good chunk of the population, we are talking about courts just rubber stamping whatever fraudulent paperwork that gets shoved in their faces with no due diligence whatsoever. When you can't even seek redress from the court system fraud is for all intents and purposes legal.
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Jul 4, 2017 23:39
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Kazak_Hstan posted:did this actually stick? They didn't figure it out and try to reverse the error? e:  ?
El Mero Mero fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 00:01
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Man I wish my student debt would mysteriously disappear.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:05
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tetrapyloctomy posted:
Wow, that is shady as hell. What's the history of this and how common is it now? I've never heard of loans structured this way before now, and I'm in the market for a mortgage. About your student loan, I feel like there is a great lawsuit here if they've changed the terms of your loan from paying down the principal to this. Not sure if it would quality under the FDCPA though, i.e. you would have your legal fees covered.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:07
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:No poo poo. But if there is no regulation and no widespread enforcement of laws against fraud those laws de facto do not exist. We are not just talking about needing to take people to court, which in itself is difficult and expensive enough to be off limits for a good chunk of the population, we are talking about courts just rubber stamping whatever fraudulent paperwork that gets shoved in their faces with no due diligence whatsoever. When you can't even seek redress from the court system fraud is for all intents and purposes legal. Yes you can go to court with forged documents to collect debts you don't own or take houses you don't own, no the courts don't care , you were sued so you probably owe someone something right, you deadbeat? You know maybe, or not, whatever, who cares the bank's nice lawyer comes into my court every day and we have lunches together so I'll take his word. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 00:53
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Chuu posted:Wow, that is shady as hell. What's the history of this and how common is it now? I've never heard of loans structured this way before now, and I'm in the market for a mortgage. It is super-duper common still. Now, federal student loan overpayments apparently have to pay off any late fees and interest accrued over the last month (why that is mandated, I don't know), but lenders of all types pull the "advance the due date" thing. There are legitimate reasons to do it -- people who will be out of touch for a time and who pay manually (which used to be a lot more common, of course) don't want to miss payments -- but generally-speaking, it's just a default option they use and don't tell you about, because it benefits them. So check all of your loans if you overpay. Ogmius815 posted:Man I wish my student debt would mysteriously disappear.
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Jul 5, 2017 01:30
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Most of us with high loan loads just assume we'll never pay them off and hope pslf sticks around. If it doesn't then I have no clue what I will do.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:39
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Most of us with high loan loads just assume we'll never pay them off and hope pslf sticks around. If it doesn't then I have no clue what I will do. Engineering tuition $2k a year. Got $3k in loans and $3k in grants. Bought a stereo. M.Sc. $1k a year, guaranteed funding starting at $14k p.a. Department paid the delta for foreign students for tuition. loving salad days.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:48
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Ok? Great? I'm glad you have a low debt load. Guess complaints about pslf are fake.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:44
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Ogmius815 posted:Man I wish my student debt would mysteriously disappear. The mysterious part of it is actually more disconcerting than positive. Like...I went to go pay it all off..I was ready and willing to pay it all and had the capacity etc etc. When it mysteriously disappeared I was left wondering when/if it would mysteriously reappear some day with years of accrued interest and fees attached or with some kind of legal liability. My only consolation is that it fell off my credit, the national student loan data base, the servicer system, and I got the thank you email. I still don't really know if that's sufficient or not to keep someone years from now coming back at me and demanding payment + interest. I don't really know my obligation to demand that someone collect from me here. El Mero Mero fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Sep 3, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 05:45
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El Mero Mero posted:The mysterious part of it is actually more disconcerting than positive. Like...I went to go pay it all off..I was ready and willing to pay it all and had the capacity etc etc. When it mysteriously disappeared I was left wondering when/if it would mysteriously reappear some day with years of accrued interest and fees attached or with some kind of legal liability. Engrave the thank you email on steel and get a notary to sign with a welding torch. 
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Jul 5, 2017 06:24
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El Mero Mero posted:The mysterious part of it is actually more disconcerting than positive. Like...I went to go pay it all off..I was ready and willing to pay it all and had the capacity etc etc. When it mysteriously disappeared I was left wondering when/if it would mysteriously reappear some day with years of accrued interest and fees attached or with some kind of legal liability. Consult a student loan attorney and save the money. Do not spend the money. Your instinct is correct, there is a good chance it'll be figured out. How long ago was this?
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Jul 5, 2017 12:29
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Consult a student loan attorney and save the money. Do not spend the money. Your instinct is correct, there is a good chance it'll be figured out. How long ago was this? It was a little over a year ago now. I held off on the attorney route after tax season, when I called the Franchise Tax Board and they also confirmed the full re-payment of the loans (but who knows maybe they're just looking at the same NSLDB I am.)  o_0 El Mero Mero fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 15:29
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El Mero Mero posted:It was a little over a year ago now. I held off on the attorney route after tac season, when I called the Franchise Tax Board and they also confirmed the full re-payment of the loans (but who knows maybe they're just looking at the same NSLDB I am.) You should share your success story with other borrowers so they can benefit from your inspiring journey to financial success.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:32
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You should delete these posts and not tell anyone.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:47
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El Mero Mero posted:It was a little over a year ago now. I held off on the attorney route after tac season, when I called the Franchise Tax Board and they also confirmed the full re-payment of the loans (but who knows maybe they're just looking at the same NSLDB I am.) oh hey navient bought a couple of my loans too. i'll have to tell my wife to try scheduling an overpayment to see if it blows up our debt
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Jul 5, 2017 15:52
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If the erasure of your loan percolated through their system to such a degree that it got reported as paid off to multiple outside agencies then stop looking at that horse's teeth.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:13
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cis autodrag posted:oh hey navient bought a couple of my loans too. i'll have to tell my wife to try scheduling an overpayment to see if it blows up our debt Cfpb is currently investigating them for issues around mismanaging their loan portfolios. Who would thunk it?
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Jul 5, 2017 17:55
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El Mero Mero posted:It was a little over a year ago now. I held off on the attorney route after tax season, when I called the Franchise Tax Board and they also confirmed the full re-payment of the loans (but who knows maybe they're just looking at the same NSLDB I am.) maybe your parents paid it off or something without telling you?
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