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H110Hawk posted:Then you need to trace those big fuckoff wires and see where they lead. They should stick out like a sore thumb anywhere you look compared to normal stuff. Have you taken the cover off your main panel to see if they're in there with the rest of the spaghetti? They go underground next to that structure. There is nothing in the main panel unconnected. This makes me think they are connected directly to the feed to the house. Is that likely?
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Jul 5, 2017 17:21
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Except didn't you say there's no power to them? So maybe I'm being dense here but why do you think they're hooked up to anything at all. Like maybe they once were, but clearly not now?
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Jul 5, 2017 17:32
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Scrapez posted:They go underground next to that structure. There is nothing in the main panel unconnected. This makes me think they are connected directly to the feed to the house. Is that likely? Where do they come up? They have to get to your meter somehow. Look around for stubbed off ends of that conduit anywhere it would make sense for them to come up, open up pull points. That's a lot of copper to just be "missing." If you're triple plus sure they're super dead, do you have a way to tone out wires? Can you jiggle them, do they feel short? You know your property better than we ever could from a single close up of a seemingly professionally wired box.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:37
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It's possible, but not likely, that the subpanel isn't hooked to anything on the upstream side. My dad, before he passed, installed the sub panel pictured above in a little building. Her then trenched downstream from there to the pole barn. In the pole barn he installed a panel. The barn panel has nothing in it yet and he had all the supplies to wire lights/power in the barn. Also, the subpanel in the little building has wires to it that then run over through and down conduit into the ground.  Here's the main house panel. The only breaker that's suspect is in the upper right. It's a 2 pole, 30 amp breaker labeled "well" However, a 30 amp double pole could not be upstream of the 60 amp sub panel, right? This is the only thing that I believe could supply that sub panel as the property used to have a well but has since been converted to county water supply. The old well is not far from the small building with the 60 amp sub panel. The other issue is that the 30 amp double pole breaker is ON. So if it supplying voltage to that 60amp subpanel, I should be hot on the incoming side and I have nothing. Scrapez fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 17:39
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Scrapez posted:It's possible, but not likely, that the subpanel isn't hooked to anything on the upstream side. I don't think your dad finished that pull. You must 100% find the other side of that in-ground conduit, and you should take the cover off the pictured main panel to see what is inside it. Post a picture.
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Jul 5, 2017 19:17
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It's a shame 811 won't do anything past the meter, that'd at least give you a hint as to where it enters the house. I'm not sure if plebs can maybe rent the type of tracing equipment they use? That might be a thing.
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Jul 5, 2017 19:25
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Bad Munki posted:It's a shame 811 won't do anything past the meter, that'd at least give you a hint as to where it enters the house. I'm not sure if plebs can maybe rent the type of tracing equipment they use? That might be a thing. If I ever sell this house one thing I am going to give the new owners is a copy of all the open-wall/open-trench pictures I took of services with easy reference points. This should get them main water service (although it's obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together), the power run to the garage, and the water heater in-wall plumbing. Would a walmart metal detector pick up the copper?
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Jul 5, 2017 19:53
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Not at the depth it should be at.
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Jul 5, 2017 20:01
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H110Hawk posted:I don't think your dad finished that pull. You must 100% find the other side of that in-ground conduit, and you should take the cover off the pictured main panel to see what is inside it. Post a picture. I did already and there was nothing unconnected. I'll pull the front off and take a picture. My only thought is that the breaker marked "well" is the run from house to well and then he branched off from that to the subpanel. Perhaps something happened in the well that severed that connection to the subpanel. I specifically recall him saying he wanted to trench a big line straight to the barn to be able to use a welder but was doing this as it would suffice for lights and power. So question... Could that 30 amp two pole breaker feed 60 amps to the sub panel?
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Jul 5, 2017 20:37
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Are you sure there isn't a breaker box outside at the meter base? Seems dumb and obvious, I know, but I go on service calls all the time for a tripped main in a panel that the homeowners didn't know was there.
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Jul 5, 2017 21:22
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Here are all the panels I'm aware of on the property... Green box has padlock on it and I assume is power company property. You can see feed coming into house. 200 amp main service panel in house.  Subpanel in garage. 50 amp breaker feeds electric oven. 30 amp not hooked up.  Subpanel in "lean to" 60 amp breaker. Feed comes from underground to this panel and back underground over to barn.  Panel in barn. Feed comes from underground from lean to over to this panel. The fact that the lean to panel, which is directly upstream of the barn, had a 60 amp breaker, shouldn't whatever is supplying per to the lean to have a 60 amp breaker? I see no 60 amp breakers in the main house panel. I see a 50 that feeds that panel in the garage for the oven and I see a 30 amp two pole labeled "well". That 30 amp two pole is the only one that I suspect of supplying the 60 amp panel in the lean to but there are two problems with that. 1. It's a 30 amp breaker. Shouldn't it be 60? Or does it being 2 pole double the amperage somehow? 2. The breaker marked "well" is in the on position. So if it's feeding the lean to 60 amp panel, I should have power there and I do not.
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Jul 5, 2017 22:54
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Scrapez posted:
You only need a break in on place. When does the lean-to output feeder become black/red/white instead of black/black? There is a splice somewhere.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:11
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H110Hawk posted:You only need a break in on place. When does the lean-to output feeder become black/red/white instead of black/black? There is a splice somewhere.  Here. This is a box where the lean to feeder enters the barn. From the box it routes to the barn panel.
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Jul 5, 2017 23:38
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Scrapez posted:
WTF. That neutral that's connected at one end, but not the other is terrifying. I don't think you're supposed to have a bonded neutral + ground in a sub-panel either. How is any of this going to work with two hots and a "ground"?
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Jul 5, 2017 23:42
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 Lean to feeder from underground. Lean to subpanel  Lean to exit from subpanel  Lean to exit to underground  Lean to on left, barn on right  Feeder to barn  Inside barn feeder box  Barn feeder box on right, subpanel on left
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Jul 5, 2017 23:46
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Scrapez posted:Here are all the panels I'm aware of on the property... What's that greenish box to the left of your meter (on the wall)? That almost looks like electrical cable coming out of it.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:25
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devicenull posted:WTF. This. At least hook up the ground to the neutral; it's not code to have bonded ground/neutral in subs, but it's better than nothing at least maybe there are groundrods connected to those stranded copper green wires. As to where the USE in the lean-to disconnect comes from; was the transformer put in after this wiring was started? Is there a pole on the property feeding other outbuildings, or an old meter pole that is no longer being used? Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 00:35
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devicenull posted:What's that greenish box to the left of your meter (on the wall)? That almost looks like electrical cable coming out of it. phone
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Jul 6, 2017 00:36
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There are a number of issues with that electrical installation.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:40
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angryrobots posted:There are a number of issues with that electrical installation. Yeah, I feel silly for talking about code compliance with this a few pages back. You can fix this, but it would mean trenching a new line from the house to the barn. 4-wire subfeeds and unknown power sources aside, you could go the cheap route and probably prevent burning this down by bonding the 60a disconnect enclosure, redoing the barn jbox with a pvc adaptor going in to a 6x6 jbox and then up (in schedule 80 PVC) to the breaker panel which would need a ground rod. Even if you did this, I'd be worried about that lean-to falling down or settling enough to damage that hanging PVC conduit. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 02:12
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Blackbeer posted:This. At least hook up the ground to the neutral; it's not code to have bonded ground/neutral in subs, but it's better than nothing at least maybe there are groundrods connected to those stranded copper green wires. There are grounding rods. One by the lean to feeder I know of and possibly others. The house and that main panel has been there since 1994. The lean to and barn wiring would have been done 2-3 years ago. The lean to must be fed by something that was already there. I'm guessing the old feed from house to well but no way for me to know. If my dad had planned to trench a feed from the house be wouldn't have routed it through the lean to. He would have gone directly from house to barn and he would have done more than 60 amp service. I'm bummed I can't figure it out.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:49
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H110Hawk posted:If I ever sell this house one thing I am going to give the new owners is a copy of all the open-wall/open-trench pictures I took of services with easy reference points. i'm considering getting an engraved metal tag made that i can attach to the gas meter for future residents that says "GAS LINE AT 9 INCHES NOT 24"
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Jul 6, 2017 08:33
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Pyroclastic posted:I was looking at our breaker panel, and noticed that the house has three double-width breakers just for our hardwired in-wall electric heaters. Since we of course won't be using the heaters while the AC is running, is it feasible/legal to get an outlet installed off that circuit, and use it solely for AC? Assuming it's OK to do, what sort of cost would I be looking at to have it done, since I'm not comfortable doing it myself? It'd only be a ~12 foot run, assuming going under the floor is OK (we have a crawlspace where it could be done relatively easily). Google tells me a typical outlet installation runs around $200, but this may be a bit more involved. According to my reading of the Code, you're not putting any additional load on a circuit whose equipment will not or cannot be used at the same time. It SHOULD be OK to drop a 240 breaker off that wall heater circuit to power your window AC. Your inspector/permitting department will tell you for sure. This is exactly as involved as a normal outlet, but the wire is going to be bigger and the outlet nonstandard. $200 is still a reasonable estimate. Hashtag Banterzone posted:Anything look out of code for my guest bath and laundry room addition? Looks OK. I assume that magenta is the GFCI outlet for the bathroom. Code gets weird in bathrooms, and the fan circuit being in multiple rooms may be a thing in your jurisdiction. Ask your inspector. Also, run the power for the electric dryer now. You never know.
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Jul 6, 2017 11:32
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SoundMonkey posted:i'm considering getting an engraved metal tag made that i can attach to the gas meter for future residents that says "GAS LINE AT 9 INCHES NOT 24" You can get laser-engraved dog tags at pet supply stores. They let you put any text you want on 'em.
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Jul 6, 2017 15:15
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You can get laser-engraved dog tags at pet supply stores. They let you put any text you want on 'em. "She's named after my great grandmother."
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Jul 6, 2017 16:33
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:They let you put any text you want on 'em. that sounds like a wager
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Jul 7, 2017 00:25
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devicenull posted:What's that greenish box to the left of your meter (on the wall)? That almost looks like electrical cable coming out of it. Blackbeer posted:phone Specifically it looks like a Calix fiber ONT.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:53
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SoundMonkey posted:that sounds like a wager I mean, at the stores I've gone to, you buy the tag, then insert it into the machine and type the text you want. There's no involvement by the store staff once you've paid for the thing, so unless the laser engraver has built-in censorship software I think you're pretty clear to put whatever on there. Subject to length constraints of course.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:03
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Bad Munki posted:It's a shame 811 won't do anything past the meter, that'd at least give you a hint as to where it enters the house. I'm not sure if plebs can maybe rent the type of tracing equipment they use? That might be a thing.
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Jul 7, 2017 17:30
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GWBBQ posted:Just grab a piece of rubber tubing and pipe a fog machine into the conduit. Fog machines are the ultimate "where's the other end of this opening?" devices. This is brilliant, and is going in my bag of tricks. Vape supplies being what they are, you could probably make a battery-powered device, too. I don't think glycol is harmful to cable jackets and remains slippery, so pre-lubed conduit as a bonus.
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Jul 7, 2017 17:38
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It also doubles as a leak tester so you know where to caulk and weatherstrip around doors and windows 
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Jul 7, 2017 18:07
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GWBBQ posted:It also doubles as a leak tester so you know where to caulk and weatherstrip around doors and windows I always heard about people using incense sticks for that, plus your home smells nice afterward.
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Jul 7, 2017 18:14
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I made a smoke tester out of a paint can, 12v heating element and a propane regulator. May not be the most useful thing in this situation as you need 12v power and an air compressor to use it, but it's super cheap and works a treat for car stuff (finding vacuum leaks). Edit: oh yeah, the important part - you put mineral oil in it and halfway cover the element.
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Jul 7, 2017 20:49
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kid sinister posted:I always heard about people using incense sticks for that, plus your home smells nice afterward.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:28
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GWBBQ posted:Just grab a piece of rubber tubing and pipe a fog machine into the conduit. Fog machines are the ultimate "where's the other end of this opening?" devices. This reminds me of the old stories I heard of electricians using little dogs to fish cable through culverts.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:16
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kid sinister posted:This reminds me of the old stories I heard of electricians using little dogs to fish cable through culverts. Fill conduit with water, buy a goldfish, tie line to fish, and literally fish the cable. 
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Jul 8, 2017 02:34
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Motronic posted:I made a smoke tester out of a paint can, 12v heating element and a propane regulator. May not be the most useful thing in this situation as you need 12v power and an air compressor to use it, but it's super cheap and works a treat for car stuff (finding vacuum leaks). that said, do not make a habit out of breathing the result of heating mineral oil. there's a reason nobody uses cracked-oil foggers any more and why the people who came up with the modern day fluid recipe got an oscar for it.
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Jul 8, 2017 06:42
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SoundMonkey posted:that said, do not make a habit out of breathing the result of heating mineral oil. there's a reason nobody uses cracked-oil foggers any more and why the people who came up with the modern day fluid recipe got an oscar for it. Can you go into detail on this? Just curious. Not about the "don't suck vaporized mineral oil" bit, the other parts. Cracked oil? Modern recipe?
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Jul 8, 2017 14:56
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Bad Munki posted:Can you go into detail on this? Just curious. Not about the "don't suck vaporized mineral oil" bit, the other parts. Cracked oil? Modern recipe? The modern fog machine juice recipe (Glycerin/Glycol based) that makes something way less toxic to inhale than poorly refined oil. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 15:33
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Bad Munki posted:Can you go into detail on this? Just curious. Not about the "don't suck vaporized mineral oil" bit, the other parts. Cracked oil? Modern recipe? Big Clive has a video that starts off with how vapes and fog machines create their "smoke" and he ends up talking about all the popular techniques that have been used to create theatrical smoke and fog effects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5QtGerJ_tI
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Jul 8, 2017 15:38
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