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shadok posted:Odo's backstory as "constable" of Terok Nor has never made a lot of sense. The Cardassians should never have given that authority to a weird alien with clear Bajoran sympathies Yeah but remember that played into Dukat's character, and his whole messiah complex and the self-image he tries to maintain of being a benevolent father figure to the bajorans rather than the mass murdering occupation commander he really is. He believed that if the Bajorans respected him he wouldn't have all these problems with the resistance. He was probably the only Cardassian who would have hired Odo. Dukat was also real bad at reading people, he assumed he could use Odo's own sense of justice to extort him: "do these investigations right or I'll just round civilians up and execute them in reprisals like every other Gul does"
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Jul 6, 2017 02:48
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah but remember that played into Dukat's character, and his whole messiah complex and the self-image he tries to maintain of being a benevolent father figure to the bajorans rather than the mass murdering occupation commander he really is. He believed that if the Bajorans respected him he wouldn't have all these problems with the resistance. He was probably the only Cardassian who would have hired Odo. This and also the Cardassians in general are kind of halfway between total mustache twirling villains and more realistic nazi analogues. It's never really shown that all Cardassians (or even Dukat) look down on or hate all other species, and Dukat constantly tries to justify the occupation by saying that the Bajorans were just "behind" Cardassia and needed their "guidance." It's not out of character at all for them to work with someone like Odo. Sisko keeping Odo around is more questionable, but whatever.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:58
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Considering how eagerly they joined the Dominion, maybe Cardassians just have a soft spot for shape shifters for some cultural reason. Maybe they're like their equivalent of funny cat videos.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:06
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Knormal posted:Considering how eagerly they joined the Dominion, maybe Cardassians just have a soft spot for shape shifters for some cultural reason. Maybe they're like their equivalent of funny cat videos. Odo could do the Neck Trick, after all.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:09
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Paradoxish posted:This and also the Cardassians in general are kind of halfway between total mustache twirling villains and more realistic nazi analogues. It's never really shown that all Cardassians (or even Dukat) look down on or hate all other species, and Dukat constantly tries to justify the occupation by saying that the Bajorans were just "behind" Cardassia and needed their "guidance." It's not out of character at all for them to work with someone like Odo. Why would a new commander remove a local country officer with a reputation as an honest broker?
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Jul 6, 2017 03:16
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Arglebargle III posted:Why would a new commander remove a local country officer with a reputation as an honest broker? It's complicated by the fact that the local officer worked for the Nazis and now he's being asked to administer a Jewish station. Even if all he did was arrest petty criminals and stay out of politics (he didn't, we know he was involved in investigating and prosecuting Bajoran terrorists) that's a tough sell.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:19
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Arglebargle III posted:Why would a new commander remove a local country officer with a reputation as an honest broker? Ironically, to avoid the kind of situation that Eddington was able to pull off. 
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Jul 6, 2017 03:20
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Principally he's there because the show wants to explore the morality of collaboration and resistance. Everything else is subservient to the need for that symbolism.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:21
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Paradoxish posted:Sisko keeping Odo around is more questionable, but whatever. I seriously doubt Sisko or Starfleet got that choice in the staffing. Kira (who was not exactly a Starfleet cheerleader in the pilot, to put it mildly) was obviously there because the Bajorans didn't want to surrender a lot of control to yet another batch of aliens, even on a station that at the time didn't seem to have much value. Also keeping hold of the job in charge of the main armed group on the station seems like a no-brainer if your position is "we need these people, but don't trust them". If Odo hadn't picked up enough of a rep for the Bajorans as a government to want him there, then I imagine Kira certainly would have exerted her own influence to keep him. And it's not like Sisko had any real reason to doubt Odo until they found out about the Dominion, and by that point he'd known Odo long enough to personally trust him himself.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:23
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Paradoxish posted:This and also the Cardassians in general are kind of halfway between total mustache twirling villains and more realistic nazi analogues. Dukat always struck me as a "Goering at Nuremberg" analogue. He admits to the aggression behind the occupation, but denies or downplays the atrocities committed, all while laughing the whole thing off and doing his best to charm his accusers. The only thing that shuts him up is irrefutable evidence of his crimes. I guess that makes Damar Albert Speer, though Damar's redemption was sincere and Speer's was calculated to save his own skin. Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 03:32
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Damar is more like a Schindler who took a while to come around.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:39
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MadDogMike posted:I seriously doubt Sisko or Starfleet got that choice in the staffing. Kira (who was not exactly a Starfleet cheerleader in the pilot, to put it mildly) was obviously there because the Bajorans didn't want to surrender a lot of control to yet another batch of aliens, even on a station that at the time didn't seem to have much value. Also keeping hold of the job in charge of the main armed group on the station seems like a no-brainer if your position is "we need these people, but don't trust them". If Odo hadn't picked up enough of a rep for the Bajorans as a government to want him there, then I imagine Kira certainly would have exerted her own influence to keep him. And it's not like Sisko had any real reason to doubt Odo until they found out about the Dominion, and by that point he'd known Odo long enough to personally trust him himself. Yeah, Odo was there as a ranked member of the Bajoran militia assigned by the government. Also, station constable is a semi-civilian position, the kind of thing Starfleet wouldn't have been weighing in on. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 03:39
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drat Season 2 of DS9 is real good. I'm on Necessary Evil right now , pretty great.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:42
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MadDogMike posted:I seriously doubt Sisko or Starfleet got that choice in the staffing. Kira (who was not exactly a Starfleet cheerleader in the pilot, to put it mildly) was obviously there because the Bajorans didn't want to surrender a lot of control to yet another batch of aliens, even on a station that at the time didn't seem to have much value. Also keeping hold of the job in charge of the main armed group on the station seems like a no-brainer if your position is "we need these people, but don't trust them". If Odo hadn't picked up enough of a rep for the Bajorans as a government to want him there, then I imagine Kira certainly would have exerted her own influence to keep him. And it's not like Sisko had any real reason to doubt Odo until they found out about the Dominion, and by that point he'd known Odo long enough to personally trust him himself. I love Kira, but her backstory in Emissary was that she was a former terrorist/freedom fighter, out of her league in politics and so annoying that they opted to shoot her into space rather than deal with her. I don't think she had that sort of clout.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:43
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Not so sure I like Odo being basically a Nazi agent . This is straight up though some Star Trek Noir murder mystery.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:46
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someone on the ds9 writing staff really liked 1950s period drama
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Jul 6, 2017 03:53
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Hollismason posted:Not so sure I like Odo being basically a Nazi agent . This is straight up though some Star Trek Noir murder mystery. Odo could have used more of that, but I think we got (almost) enough. Someone cast René Auberjonois in a noir film please.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:55
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Oh poo poo this has gotten good . Kira totally killed this collaborator. Yeah this is probably the best one I've seen so far.
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Jul 6, 2017 04:09
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Weren't there only a relative few people on DS9 from the federation anyway? At the start there were probably fewer than a couple dozen federation officers, so it'd make sense for them to keep people who knew what they were doing and have the Bajorans' blessing in their place. Plus the Bajorans liked Odo because he stopped (or reduced) the random killings that the Cardassians were doing before as their deterrent.
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Jul 6, 2017 05:01
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Hollismason posted:Oh poo poo this has gotten good . Kira totally killed this collaborator. Yeah this is probably the best one I've seen so far. Necessary Evil is kind of a hidden gem of the early DS9. Regrettably the only noir-style story they did as well.
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Jul 6, 2017 07:23
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Kibayasu posted:Necessary Evil is kind of a hidden gem of the early DS9. Regrettably the only noir-style story they did as well. Not true. I can think of two others.
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Jul 6, 2017 07:29
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Watching The Enemy. It starts with the gang beaming down to an alien landscape and it looks a lot better than the soundstages from season 1. Maybe that's just because it's dark.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:13
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Injured Romulan just tried to strangle Worf for rescuing him. What an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:16
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Geordi tripped into a pit and got stranded, cries to his teammates lost in the thunder of the storm. I must have missed why he didn't just use his communicator.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:18
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Geordi's building something out of mud and rocks superheated with his phaser. What a clever bastard.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:23
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They're saying if Geordi spends too much time on the planet magnets will make him retarded like the Romulan.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:24
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Picard: "Or history may remember Galorndon Core like Pearl Harbor or Station Salem One." Finally, a reference to history that hasn't happened yet. I was getting annoyed with how often they seemed to think about distant history (and the 20th century in particular) compared to fresher more relevant stuff.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:31
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loving Romulans
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Jul 6, 2017 08:36
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Ahahahaha he got owned by rockslide
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Jul 6, 2017 08:38
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Dr. Crusher: "Lieutenant, I understand your feelings about the Romulans. But this is not the time or place." Worf: "If you had seen them kill your parents, you would understand Doctor; it is always the time and place for those feelings." drat
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Jul 6, 2017 08:41
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Riker giving a good speech about why Worf should save the Romulan PoW.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:52
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Yeesh, Geordi's Romulan needs acting lessons.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:55
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That standoff was so intense I couldn't post during it. Especially with the PoW dead, I wasn't expecting that. Good episode. ... but Picard said he was gonna escort the Romulan vessel to the neutral zone, then both ships flew off in opposite directions 
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Jul 6, 2017 09:09
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Picard: "Or history may remember Galorndon Core like Pearl Harbor or Station Salem One." Usually it's a 'one of three' for TNG. They're always doing a 'They'd be a genius like Einstein, Hawking, or Skrelnax of Isop'.
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Jul 6, 2017 09:56
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Was it ever explained (or even apathetically handwaved away by a writer) how Alice Krige's Borg Queen exists in the series finale of Voyager after Picard melted her and broke her spine in 2063?
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Jul 6, 2017 10:49
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Gonz posted:Was it ever explained (or even apathetically handwaved away by a writer) how Alice Krige's Borg Queen exists in the series finale of Voyager after Picard melted her and broke her spine in 2063? In First Contact: "You think in such three-dimensional terms."
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Jul 6, 2017 11:00
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The_Doctor posted:Usually it's a 'one of three' for TNG. They're always doing a 'They'd be a genius like Einstein, Hawking, or Skrelnax of Isop'. Star trek is especially bad for that, especially Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Valdez
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Jul 6, 2017 13:47
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I assumed they just clone a new body for her whenever the collective needs to bang an alien
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Jul 6, 2017 13:49
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Jeb! Repetition posted:That standoff was so intense I couldn't post during it. Especially with the PoW dead, I wasn't expecting that. Good episode. I really like that Worf sticks to his guns and doesn't donate. Season 1 TNG would have had him do it in the spirit of cooperation and we all would have learned a nice lesson about compassion.
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Jul 6, 2017 13:49
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CommaToes posted:Weren't there only a relative few people on DS9 from the federation anyway? At the start there were probably fewer than a couple dozen federation officers, so it'd make sense for them to keep people who knew what they were doing and have the Bajorans' blessing in their place. On a similar note, I wish they had kept Li Nalas around. He could have been a good recurring character. His death is frustrating.
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Jul 6, 2017 14:16
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