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Is the Primaris Librarian already available?
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Jul 6, 2017 16:47
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Hamshot posted:They needed to get a hard counter to chaos armies released asap. The hard counter to hordes is a horde of your own. I blendered some orcs and tyranids this weekend with a blob of 60 guardians.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:47
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Zuul the Cat posted:Is the Primaris Librarian already available? Comes out Saturday but the stats have already leaked.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:52
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Cooked Auto posted:I managed to find a copy of the old Daemonhunters codex where the GKs were just special and not super special awesome like they got later. See I take the opposite view. My (rather fuzzy) memory of reading about grey knights when I was a kid, in 2nd ed or maybe the very beginning of 3rd, was you could take 1 squad. Only if you were fighting chaos. I don't remember the stats or if they were that elite by the tabletop rules. But the idea was awesome. These guys were rarer than rocking horse poo poo, but come the hour they would turn up and heroically fight the daemons. I think they had to add all the other poo poo to make them work as a playable army; but I prefer grey knights as a special unit where each one is a hero. To have gradations (3 types of power armour marines, 2 types of terminator, all the specialists etc) removes any mystery about them IMO. How can Grey Knight A be such a mighty champion against old night if he's the one they picked to drive the APC while his squad mates do the close combat? I prefer to imagine all their enabling transport, support, heavy firepower etc being done by top notch humans or machines - the knights themselves are only for taking the fight to the warp with steel and psyker powers. Going on and on about their eliteness and how many million applicants fail to make the grade for each success is pointless - this narrative is directly countered by the way they appear on the tabletop.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:58
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Biovores are one of the better sources of Mortal Wounds, it appears. Stack a full squad in a Tyrannocyte and watch them go to town. Boom: no more Wulfen/Terminators/Meganobz/[insert heavy infantry]. I'd be interested in the bikes if no one else wants them.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:08
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Biovores are one of the better sources of Mortal Wounds, it appears. Stack a full squad in a Tyrannocyte and watch them go to town.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:14
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Corrode posted:Chaos are still Marines Yeah, but if the initial theme of the game is Chaos vs Imperium, then having the Imperium's premiere daemon-fighters early rather than late makes sense.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:21
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Genghis Cohen posted:See I take the opposite view. My (rather fuzzy) memory of reading about grey knights when I was a kid, in 2nd ed or maybe the very beginning of 3rd, was you could take 1 squad. Only if you were fighting chaos. I don't remember the stats or if they were that elite by the tabletop rules. But the idea was awesome. These guys were rarer than rocking horse poo poo, but come the hour they would turn up and heroically fight the daemons. Hell let them have grey knight vehicle drivers, just don't make them a force with a lot of vehicles. The Daemonhunters codex was kind of a shot at trying to have grey knights without making them look like a huge gang of ~the purest of the pure~, but then after I stopped hamming it seems they massively inflated their list with baby carrying hammerbots and aircraft or something. Humans or even regular marines fighting demons etc is always more interesting than the best, the absolute best of the best ever x100, fighting demons. The imperium is at its best fighting heresy/chaos when it basically looks like another kind of chaos.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:38
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Genghis Cohen posted:Going on and on about their eliteness and how many million applicants fail to make the grade for each success is pointless - this narrative is directly countered by the way they appear on the tabletop. Feels to me like like the same can be said for all power armour armies to a certain extent. But the special ally rules they (and the witch hunters) had going seems to limit the number of GKs you could field in your army to make them feel a bit rarer. The 3rd or 4th ed approach is the one I like in this case because GKs aren't really their own fully usable army like they became later on but simply a force you had attached to allied Marines or Guard units.
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Jul 6, 2017 17:44
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Biovores are one of the better sources of Mortal Wounds, it appears. Stack a full squad in a Tyrannocyte and watch them go to town. Boom: no more Wulfen/Terminators/Meganobz/[insert heavy infantry]. What? They aren't great. Can't fire on overwatch, still have fail on a roll of one, and a bit expensive. The best thing is to keep them moving so they have a greater chance of missing so you can lay down spore mines to try to trip units up. Even then I would spend the 5-10 more points to take a Sporocycst. Unless you mean zoanthropes? Yeah, they are fairly nasty mortal wound dealers, and with the horror are really nice in a tyrannocyte. EDIT: Okay, obviously you use biovores to move and shoot at units hoping to miss your 5+ shot so that you can hopscotch spore mines into the back field to threaten low-to-mid wound buff style characters. Again, there are probably better ways to spend your points. LordAba fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 17:46
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HardCoil posted:Gotcha. I missed the part in 3.2. about the shooting model. That makes it a lot less stupid. But then what if you have a few models fully visible, a few in cover, and a few fully invisible? It gets really fiddly with the rules really fast if you start doing that stuff. Too much counting and super-careful unit placement slows down the movement phase. DO IT TO IT posted:I sure hope the new CSM book is accompanied by at least a new basic chaos marines kit and a new havocs kit. We need new chaos models so badly, so it definitely won't happen lol
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Jul 6, 2017 18:00
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In scouring various bits of lore related to the Thousand Sons, I discovered that the Grey Knights were founded by a Thousand Son blackshield named Janus, or Ianus. The most common belief among Warhams is that Grey Knights were from the Emperor's Gene Seed, but this seems unlikely to me. They don't have the stature or personality of the Custodian Guard. It seems more likely that the Grey Knights are successors of Magnus as that they represent what the Emperor intended for the Thousand Sons: weaponized psyker marines. The most recent lore bits suggest that the Grey Knights are derived from Janus. Janus is Revuel Arvida, a Corvidae and the same guy who is claimed to be the founder of the Blood Ravens. Janus is unusual in that he was merged with a fragment of Magnus* by Malcador. * It isn't widely known that the Daemon Primarch Magnus isn't 100% Magnus. Magnus was shattered and various bits of his mind are spread around the galaxy. It could be that Janus did found also the Blood Ravens in order to find the fragments of Magnus and reuinite them. One is the daemon primarch, one is bound to Prospero, one is bound to Janus (and maybe now stored on Titan), one is lost in the warp, etc. However, most have been absorbed by the daemon primarch. More importantly, the fragment that represented Magnus's empathy and fatherlyness has been destroyed and the fragment that represents his nobility is held by the Grey Knights. So What I'm Saying is that the Grey Knights appear to be a loyalist Thousand Sons successor and that this has been built up by hints in recent lore. This knowledge appears to be known only to the Great Khan who assisted in their founding (as well as the original founding of the Librarius - the Khan seems to believe that the warp can be tamed and the Thousand Sons were/are the ones to do it).
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Jul 6, 2017 18:00
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GreenMarine posted:In scouring various bits of lore related to the Thousand Sons, I discovered that the Grey Knights were founded by a Thousand Son blackshield named Janus, or Ianus. The most common belief among Warhams is that Grey Knights were from the Emperor's Gene Seed, but this seems unlikely to me. They don't have the stature or personality of the Custodian Guard. It seems more likely that the Grey Knights are successors of Magnus as that they represent what the Emperor intended for the Thousand Sons: weaponized psyker marines. The most recent lore bits suggest that the Grey Knights are derived from Janus. Grey Knights are super super secret and even other marines don't know they exist, so literally every bit of lore we have on them is in question. Its all Inquisition secrets and mind games. I wouldn't consider that accurate at all. Grey Knights aren't a successor of any legion. They're a wholly unique thing built after and designed for a single purpose, shrouded in mystery. Plus the idea that "well a shard of magnus' good side..." sounds dumb to me.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:03
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHy9Fq2HME It's the 200th Tip of the Day!
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Jul 6, 2017 18:03
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Zaphod42 posted:But then what if you have a few models fully visible, a few in cover, and a few fully invisible? That's the hardest part. Either we get a severely bogged down game, or we get reduced tactical granularity. Maybe have it so you target models to allocate wounds to first, instead of doing so after the fact, but then we'd likely go back to games of Kill the Sergeant.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:04
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Zaphod42 posted:Grey Knights are super super secret and even other marines don't know they exist, so literally every bit of lore we have on them is in question. Its all Inquisition secrets and mind games. No, this isn't true. The Horus Heresy books extensively cover the founding of the Grey Knights. There are scenes set on Titan during the construction of their fortresses, short stories (and books where he appears) that go into detail on the life of Arvida, etc. The picture is pretty widely set, but most people haven't read the entire 30k series. I've read nearly the whole thing and the foundation of all of this is definitely there (including the shards of Magnus stuff, etc). Re below: The audiobooks pass the time on my commute. GreenMarine fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 18:06
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You're a stronger person than most to make it through almost all of that series. After reading A Thousand Sons I've had my fill of Graham Mcneill for the next millenium or so.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:09
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Technowolf posted:
I was worried the confetti would get in Duncan's eyes  The Bee posted:That's the hardest part. Either we get a severely bogged down game, or we get reduced tactical granularity. Yeah I kinda like the idea of just making everybody snipers but ... yeah that has issues too. IDK. I'm not the expert here. GreenMarine posted:No, this isn't true. The Horus Heresy books extensively cover the founding of the Grey Knights. There are scenes set on Titan during the construction of their fortresses, short stories (and books where he appears) that go into detail on the life of Arvida, etc. The picture is pretty widely set, but most people haven't read the entire 30k series. I've read nearly the whole thing and the foundation of all of this is definitely there (including the shards of Magnus stuff, etc). Yeah I guess that's changed since the 4th/5th days. I've read a bit of horus heresy but not all. I guess those books are beyond dispute then, historic fact. That's dumb. Magnus' good side got ripped out and put in another dude? That's super super super loving dumb. gently caress.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:41
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Technowolf posted:
Son of a bitch. I was just wondering the other day how he did those spearmen in his AoS army. Zaphod42 posted:That's dumb. Magnus' good side got ripped out and put in another dude? That's super super super loving dumb. gently caress. It's amusing how people can cherrypick things they think are "unrealistic" or "silly" in a fantasy story. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 18:44
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Maybe it could be "Models outside of cover get wound allocation priority. Then models with cover, gaining the benefits of a cover save. If this would make attacks miss, then the attacks miss. Finally, models that are not legal targets (whether due to LoS or range) cannot be damaged, unless by Flamer and Explosive weapons." This way, for example, you could cycle a wounded bigmarine into cover and have his battle brothers cover for him. It would also make wound allocation a simple chain of priorities instead of an overly complex system. Finally, it allows unit leaders to actually be picked off if positioned poorly instead of always being the last model standing.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:50
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berzerkmonkey posted:That's the one part you don't like about the science and magic created super wizard man who becomes a giant one-eyed daemon who mopes around while his "sons" are turned into dust robots? Yes?? Its a huge tonal shift. Does this mean the other demon primarchs had their good selves splintered and implanted into some other marine too? Or is Magnus special? Can we stick his good part back into him and make him whole again? Its just goofy as hell. Grey Knights chapter master fuses with Magnus and they form GoMagnus! Warp Magic has rules. Tearing people's emotions out of their souls and planting that in somebody else was never an established 40k thing, and its super wishywashy. The whole point was that Tzeentch tricked him into an impossible scenario where he choose chaos. The idea that people are pure evil or pure good is just silly; its better that he was a tragic figure who went to the dark side even though he wasn't fully evil and still isn't. quote:It's amusing how people can cherrypick things they think are "unrealistic" or "silly" in a fantasy story. Oh, okay cool thanks buddy. E: I collect and paint space barbies but I don't care about the lore like this nerd does! Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 18:56
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My birthday this year is coinciding with a renewed desire to get into the hobby so I added a start collecting Space Woofs box to my good boy list so I can paint up some techno-vikings. My friend who's also breaking into 40K is rolling with Dark Angels so I'll have a good, natural enemy to smash guys against. Would you guys say 8th edition is a decent starting point for someone who's never played before? I've loved Warhammer for years but most just the fluff/modeling portion of it and the video games.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:04
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Zuul the Cat posted:Is the Primaris Librarian already available? My store got them today.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:07
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Deified Data posted:My birthday this year is coinciding with a renewed desire to get into the hobby so I added a start collecting Space Woofs box to my good boy list so I can paint up some techno-vikings. My friend who's also breaking into 40K is rolling with Dark Angels so I'll have a good, natural enemy to smash guys against. Would you guys say 8th edition is a decent starting point for someone who's never played before? I've loved Warhammer for years but most just the fluff/modeling portion of it and the video games. If you are in the US I got both space wolves and dark angels armies still on the sprues I would just as soon sell at a good discount.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:10
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I'm trying to figure out how Biovores aren't great. Hide them with a pack of Hive Guard inside LoS blocking cover, babysit them with a Malanthrope or warrior unit and go to town. 36 points for a 48" gun hitting on 4s that needs no LoS and can cause d6 Mortal Wounds? If they miss you get free spore mines? They are in pretty much every list I have going forward.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:10
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Zaphod42 posted:Yes?? The best part about 40k lore is that any and all pieces of fluff are valid/invalid as you so choose pretty much.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:32
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Deified Data posted:My birthday this year is coinciding with a renewed desire to get into the hobby so I added a start collecting Space Woofs box to my good boy list so I can paint up some techno-vikings. My friend who's also breaking into 40K is rolling with Dark Angels so I'll have a good, natural enemy to smash guys against. Would you guys say 8th edition is a decent starting point for someone who's never played before? I've loved Warhammer for years but most just the fluff/modeling portion of it and the video games. There's worse ways to learn than doing a small-scale 8th battle. I'd throw your two start collecting boxes against each other and see what happens  The base game rules are very simple. One player's turn, other player's turn. Each turn is each phase in order. Each phase is very simple. The complexity of the game comes entirely from all the special rules and abilities and weapons and stuff. So its easy to learn, but also there's a lot to learn, but you can just keep referencing the rules while you're new. You could also consider playing Shadow War Armageddon, which is smaller-scale team tactics battles, so its cheaper to get into. There aren't rules for normal space marines though, so you'd have to get some scouts or proxy your marines as scouts... but that wouldn't be the worst thing ever. It plays similar to 40k but instead of having units of dudes running around, you just have individual dudes, kinda like you're playing X-COM. FiestaNinja posted:The best part about 40k lore is that any and all pieces of fluff are valid/invalid as you so choose pretty much. True enough
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Jul 6, 2017 19:32
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Deified Data posted:My birthday this year is coinciding with a renewed desire to get into the hobby so I added a start collecting Space Woofs box to my good boy list so I can paint up some techno-vikings. My friend who's also breaking into 40K is rolling with Dark Angels so I'll have a good, natural enemy to smash guys against. Would you guys say 8th edition is a decent starting point for someone who's never played before? I've loved Warhammer for years but most just the fluff/modeling portion of it and the video games. Since you have already build models and enjoy it go hog wild on whatever. The strengths of 40k are the great fluff and the great models, the game is more or less an excuse to play space barbies with your friends. Its not balanced and likely never will be. If you can look past that and just enjoy your beautiful army in motion then any edition is a good starting place. The only thing you should be careful about is that they are currently updating the space marine line, small marines will continue to be phased out and lose their value. On the one hand its a great time to start a new army as the new marines will likely stick around for 15+ years, on the other hand there is a smaller second hand market for new marines. If you are willing to wait like 6 months you could likely pick up whole armies of small marines for super cheap as people ditch them for big marines.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:34
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Take this well known battlecry of the Ravenwing for instance:
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Jul 6, 2017 19:37
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TKIY posted:I'm trying to figure out how Biovores aren't great. Hide them with a pack of Hive Guard inside LoS blocking cover, babysit them with a Malanthrope or warrior unit and go to town. 36 points for a 48" gun hitting on 4s that needs no LoS and can cause d6 Mortal Wounds? If they miss you get free spore mines? Yea but they are money expensive and the models are pretty ugly and old.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:39
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So Primaris players, how are they working out? Any tips or recommendations for someone interested in Bigmars?
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Jul 6, 2017 19:43
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They look awesome. Everything else is secondary.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:46
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LingcodKilla posted:They look awesome. Everything else is secondary. This is true, and as soon as it stops loving raining I plan on getting my first dudes done as Marines Malevolent. I just figured it would be interesting to get some feedback on what works and what doesn't.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:53
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So Primaris players, how are they working out? Any tips or recommendations for someone interested in Bigmars? Model range isn't wide enough to make them worth while yet. Once they get their dedicated transports I feel you will see more use out of them.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:53
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They're trash.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:55
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So Primaris players, how are they working out? Any tips or recommendations for someone interested in Bigmars? I'd wait for Codex Marines. By then they'll have vehicle options, including their dread and transports, as well as more HQ options like apothecaries and chaplains. Aggressors might finally give them a proper heavy option, and Reivers with bolters may serve as a good light skrimisher or even sniper. Right now, Primaris just seem like midrange footsloggers with half an army.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:55
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TKIY posted:I'm trying to figure out how Biovores aren't great. Hide them with a pack of Hive Guard inside LoS blocking cover, babysit them with a Malanthrope or warrior unit and go to town. 36 points for a 48" gun hitting on 4s that needs no LoS and can cause d6 Mortal Wounds? If they miss you get free spore mines? You... you haven't read the rules have you? Unless the actual released version is vastly different from the leaked version (which is all I can get because the Xeno 2 index is hella rare in stores). Again, the only reason you take them is to move and shoot at units with characters nearby, hoping you miss so you can threaten them with spores if they don't deal with them. EDIT:  ?? LordAba fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 19:58
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LordAba posted:You... you haven't read the rules have you? Unless the actual released version is vastly different from the leaked version (which is all I can get because the Xeno 2 index is hella rare in stores). I messed up the damage, its 1 or d3 not a d6. Still: Hit on a 4+. No LoS was FAQd in. If you miss, free mine within 6". If you hit, roll a d6. 1 is no effect. 2-5 is 1 mortal wounds. 6 is d3 mortal wounds. 36 points. TKIY fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 20:02
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I still want to know why that one guy puts biovores into a tyrannocyte.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:12
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Stanyer89 posted:Model range isn't wide enough to make them worth while yet. Once they get their dedicated transports I feel you will see more use out of them. Easy solution is to just use them as "real scale Marines" with IG. That's my plan right now. Two squads of 6 in razor backs with plasma guns. Use the lieutenant as sergeants with power swords. I'll probably get the librarian and dread too.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:14
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