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Elyv posted:Was Hungary just more heavily fortified than the areas the Mongols were in the Middle East? I know the ME was heavily fortified but my understanding is that the Hungarians just had absolute fucktons of fortifications, especially after the first failed invasion. I mean, it would make sense. Hungary was dealing with pissed off steppe nomads going back to the loving Romans.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:21
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The Hungarian (hint) plains were staging ground for all kinds of nomadic assholes since late antiquity, hence the eastern part of Austria was intensely dotted with fortresses.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:33
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Fangz posted:What happens when a complicated formation like a tercio takes casualties? Do people remain in place or are people trained to shuffle around to keep the shape of the formation with a smaller number of people?
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Jul 6, 2017 19:38
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Elyv posted:Was Hungary just more heavily fortified than the areas the Mongols were in the Middle East? I know the ME was heavily fortified but my understanding is that the Hungarians just had absolute fucktons of fortifications, especially after the first failed invasion. Maybe more than the Middle East, but relative to the HRE or Italy, Hungary was severely lacking. There was something like 10 stone castles in the entire kingdom? But yeah, Bela IV built like 200 new castles after the Mongols came around, so the Hungarians quickly figured out what's what.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:39
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Knowing the geography of Iran, it's not really a place that you want to fight in. It's a fuckload of cold desert mountains, hot desert littered with mountains, sand desert, some more mountains, and a bunch of not so high mountains and a thin strip of pretty nice climate near the caspian sea. Some mountains with stone desert and mountains with some nice and green valleys inbetween. As a local once told me "Basically it's just mountains."
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Jul 6, 2017 19:49
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:loving off to greener pastures with such rapidity is a bit harder back in the day. Cyrano4747 posted:I mean, it would make sense. Hungary was dealing with pissed off steppe nomads going back to the loving Romans. Hungary was pretty much founded by the magyars settling down which is why they are in the same moon language group as the Finns and Estonians.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:51
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Cythereal posted:Another, often forgotten aspect of the Mongols, is that by the standards of the time they were astonishingly progressive regarding women. If you were a woman in that era, the Mongol Empire was about the safest place on earth and gave you the greatest freedom. I would absolutely not describe it as safe and this protection mostly applied to Mongolian women only and even then had pretty severe limits. One of the first things the adult Chinngis had to deal with was rescuing his wife from abductors who had stolen her to retaliate against Chinngis' father stealing a wife from their tribe.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:01
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Yeeeeeeah, and that's on top of the whole thingie where you need to be alive to have rights, and, uh...
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Jul 6, 2017 20:12
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my dad posted:Yeeeeeeah, and that's on top of the whole thingie where you need to be alive to have rights, and, uh... Crime is committed by the living, so killing everyone brings down the crime rate to zero  . Plus everyone has equal rights when their skulls are used to build a pyramid as a warning to the next tribe over 
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Jul 6, 2017 20:18
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Don Gato posted:Crime is committed by the living, so killing everyone brings down the crime rate to zero
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Jul 6, 2017 20:22
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Don Gato posted:Crime is committed by the living, so killing everyone brings down the crime rate to zero What about the people who are building the pyramid? Certainly laborers have at least marginally more rights than materiel?
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Jul 6, 2017 20:24
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I wrote an article on America's divorce from its army that may or may not be of interest to the thread. There are a lot of smart people here so if you have any feedback on this please to share, I have no thin skin when it comes to my writing.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:39
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bewbies posted:I wrote an article on America's divorce from its army that may or may not be of interest to the thread. There are a lot of smart people here so if you have any feedback on this please to share, I have no thin skin when it comes to my writing. Just getting into it, and apologies for giving proof-reading feedback instead of anything substantive, but there's an editing error on page 2: "Fewer Americans today are have served, ". I assume the "are" is a left-over from a prior version of that sentence.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:35
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Davin Valkri posted:What about the people who are building the pyramid? Certainly laborers have at least marginally more rights than materiel? They are drowning in the river of rendered human fat running all the way from the pyramid into the ocean.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:43
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Thanks to whoever linked to that article about Dishonored and British honour culture some, er, hundred pages ago. I'm a big nerd for everything about swords, so I bought the interviewed guy's book on dueling. The most interesting part of the book ended up being the bibliography, but it was an entertaining read and only cost me 6€.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:47
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Siivola posted:
This is a legit good reason to own a book. I've got $100 books that I bought just to have ready access to the bibliography.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:22
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bewbies posted:I wrote an article on America's divorce from its army that may or may not be of interest to the thread. There are a lot of smart people here so if you have any feedback on this please to share, I have no thin skin when it comes to my writing. I enjoyed the article, but a thought that occurs to me that you didn't address is that I feel the American disconnect from the military may have a lot to do with our perceived status as the lone world superpower. Much of the American population has come of age in a time when American military supremacy or the perception thereof is taken for granted - around the world, but perhaps most keenly in the USA itself. We have a colossal military and industry to support it, but we're a country that faces virtually no legitimate external threat beyond terrorism - and even then, domestic terrorism has claimed far more lives and done far more damage than foreign terrorism. Historically, throughout the world this kind of dynamic has often - even usually - lead to foreign adventurism for a variety of reasons. I don't claim to be a military theorist and I have no firsthand experience with the military (I do have some extended family who serve, but they're all Navy), but that's my chestnut for consideration.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:53
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bewbies posted:I wrote an article on America's divorce from its army that may or may not be of interest to the thread. There are a lot of smart people here so if you have any feedback on this please to share, I have no thin skin when it comes to my writing. It's a good read. You might encounter some resistance to this from people who cannot understand the concept that the military is both obscenely overfunded while being grossly underpaid. What are your thoughts on the use of PMCs in Iraq and how this affected military culture? Because if I was being paid less than twenty thousand dollars a year and found out some other guy is getting a six figure salary to drive a truck I'd be pissed. If I had one criticism I'd say it's that you might be overstating the military's willingness to learn from its mistakes, but I'm reading a book on ARPA and RAND's history in Vietnam right now so that might be making me a bit pessimistic (submitting a report that lacked optimism would result in that report being thrown out and subsequently classified to make sure no one can hear your criticism). edit: I turned 18 in early 2001, before 9/11, and when me and my friends would go to the mall after school or in the summer we were constantly scouted by recruiters. We used to laugh at them, why the hell would I want to join the army or marines instead of going to college? The only people I knew who enlisted were poor and completely out of other option, and even then some of them changed their minds and got out of it as quickly as they could. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 23:16
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bewbies posted:I wrote an article on America's divorce from its army that may or may not be of interest to the thread. There are a lot of smart people here so if you have any feedback on this please to share, I have no thin skin when it comes to my writing. There's a lot going on in this paragraph, and I'm not sure you've laid it out clearly enough for it to work. quote:Constructive criticism of the Army, especially from The bolded, in particular, is what will cause senior leaders to balk and start quoting the mission command or leadership ADP/ADRPs or immediately linking the GEN Perkins mission command video. Yes, I've been in mega micro-managed mistake-free units that really did suppress innovative thought, experimentation, or doing anything new that wasn't "new" for the sake of some eval bullet, but I think you're making a reasonable claim with an unreasonable amount of backup/support. Full disclosure: I did not go read the war college paper you cited, but if it lays it out really well, maybe some more detail from the cited work would strengthen this paragraph. This may go beyond the scope of your paper, but I feel like there's value in mentioning accession when you discuss getting more diverse recruits from outside the "warrior class," as relates to the army/nation needing to accept critiques and deep dives into the army as an organization. Some quick google shows the army, both active and reserve, at around 90% of their accession goal in 2015. https://www.defense.gov/News/News-R...for-fiscal-yea/ I've sat in numerous meetings where general officers or colonels discuss accessions and seem like they honest-to-god don't understand why fit, young people, with no or minimal criminal record, and with generally good grades/aptitude scores aren't rushing to join the army. So basically, wondering out loud and nodding along sagely as they wonder why a high schooler or college student with decent grades and no major life-fuckup isn't joining the military, when they were maybe 3 years old on 9/11 and when the economy is doing well, compared to 10 years ago. Meanwhile, these potential recruits have spent their entire childhood and young adult lives seeing the army lionized, but also are probably smart enough to realize "oh poo poo, they've been in a forever war in the middle east." I dunno, maybe now I'm just ranting.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:20
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mlmp08 posted:Meanwhile, these potential recruits have spent their entire childhood and young adult lives seeing the army lionized, but also are probably smart enough to realize "oh poo poo, they've been in a forever war in the middle east." This right here is why I seriously considered joining the military when I was in high school and decided not to. I have several relatives who serve, but 9/11 happened while I was in middle school and when considering post-high school plans I realized that there was no end in sight to the Middle East adventures. Granted I would have tried to sign up for the Navy first, but it was that few years after 9/11 that badly soured me on the prospect of joining the military.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:24
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A warrior class seems like a terrible idea in a world without endemic warfare and with the ability to turn pretty much anyone into someone who can shoot a rifle
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Jul 6, 2017 23:29
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HEY GAIL posted:considering the logistical basis of mongol operations y'all are being slightly paranoid: one cav has a string of about five horses and possibly a sheep, minimally. That is what they live on, on campaign. One horse needs about 40 acres per horse per year. One mongol division is 10,000 cav, which assuming five horses/cav needs this much of Hungary at minimum to graze: 40 acres of what kind of land? I know nothing about horses, but a quick googling suggests that they need a lot less. And you could feed horses grain too. After all, the skull pyramids don't have to eat any. Nebakenezzer posted:This is taken to be the high-water mark of the Mongol invasions. The Mamluks trained in tactics specifically to defeat the Mongols, and in a first, used "Hand Guns" (IE those little cannon on the end of poles) during the battle. I'm pretty sure that they were used in China before that. And that it was the Mongols who brought them to the west. Fangz posted:One thing to add was that the second Mongol invasion of Hungary took place in winter (the first took place in spring), which just seems like a bad idea. Less forage available, meanwhile the defender's food were in stored stocks already which can be defended or destroyed if necessary. And that's not before we get to the snow. I don't really understand why they did it that way. Mongols used frozen rivers as highways, and the kind local farmers had gathered grain and hay in their granaries for the hungry hungry Tümens passing by.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:42
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Ithle01 posted:Because if I was being paid less than twenty thousand dollars a year and found out some other guy is getting a six figure salary to drive a truck I'd be pissed. To be fair, from what I've read about it, driving a truck in Iraq (or any other IED-prone country) sounds like maybe the worst job in the universe and six figures is the bare minimum you'd have to pay me to do it That's not to say that soldiers shouldn't be paid more, or to say anything at all about the role of PMCs because I'm definitely too dumb to opine about that, just that that specific example undersold the danger a bit to me
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Jul 6, 2017 23:43
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bewbies posted:I wrote an article on America's divorce from its army that may or may not be of interest to the thread. There are a lot of smart people here so if you have any feedback on this please to share, I have no thin skin when it comes to my writing. Out of scope since you're writing about the Army specifically, but the question that popped into my head during your bit on media portrayal was "I was wonder if bewbies has strong opinions about Generation Kill?"
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Jul 6, 2017 23:50
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Bewbies, upon seeing War Machine drop, unsure if good news overall or whether he's more annoyed that people will say "BUT WAR MACHINE" regarding the claim that media doesn't much like to satirize or critique the army. Then again, it has not received critical acclaim and doesn't seem to have captured anything resembling a large audience.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:00
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What was the last battlefield casualty due to an arrow shot from a bow?
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Jul 7, 2017 00:19
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Ainsley McTree posted:To be fair, from what I've read about it, driving a truck in Iraq (or any other IED-prone country) sounds like maybe the worst job in the universe and six figures is the bare minimum you'd have to pay me to do it The larger problem is probably skill drain from paying your soldiers poo poo and having PMCs working in the exact same area, going out of their way to hire people with military skill sets, and giving out much better salaries. I know a couple of people who GTFO of the military then turned around and went right back to Iraq, this time getting paid decent cash to do so. edit: combat MOSs, that is. I doubt Blackwater or Xe or whatever they're called this week is gunning hard to recruit cooks and mechanics, and I doubt many of those guys are eager to guard cell phone towers in Somalia or drive supply convoys in the Sunni Triangle. I could be wrong about that, but anecdotally the guys I know who did the contractor thing were both infantry. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 00:21
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:What was the last battlefield casualty due to an arrow shot from a bow? They're still used in warfare, eg. by the Sentinelese.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:What was the last battlefield casualty due to an arrow shot from a bow? If we discount poo poo like the Andamans, Kenya in the late 00s saw some disputes where poor rurals broke out the huntin' bows for a post-election mini-civil-war.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:35
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Cyrano4747 posted:edit: combat MOSs, that is. I doubt Blackwater or Xe or whatever they're called this week is gunning hard to recruit cooks and mechanics, and I doubt many of those guys are eager to guard cell phone towers in Somalia or drive supply convoys in the Sunni Triangle. I could be wrong about that, but anecdotally the guys I know who did the contractor thing were both infantry. There are a fair number of non-combat positions out there, but "drive truck from A to B" can likely be fulfilled with either locals or foreigners who are a much cheaper employee than Americans. But I've seen some people roll directly into contractor gigs where they're troubleshooting computer networks or fixing communications gear or servicing C-RAM systems, with not a whole helluva a lot of training in between active service and contractor work overseas. The pay is better, for sure, but the benefits if you get injured or killed or whatever are extremely variable.
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Jul 7, 2017 00:38
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Also, I've missed about 75 posts so idk if this is entirely on topic, but RE: driving trucks in foreign shitholes. My MOS was to fire rocket artillery that happened to be mounted on trucks, my actual time was spent driving various other trucks that sometimes assholes shot at. Bad job, would not recommend.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:06
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The dirty secret is the front line in these wars for a long time was driving trucks from Point A to Point B. Actual battles were rare. Now it's almost all urban combat. gently caress urban combat, I'd rather drive the truck.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:10
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Ainsley McTree posted:To be fair, from what I've read about it, driving a truck in Iraq (or any other IED-prone country) sounds like maybe the worst job in the universe and six figures is the bare minimum you'd have to pay me to do it Yeah of course, I'm well aware of that, but odds are that the army volunteer has to do the same job or even worse jobs than that for as low as one-tenth the pay and poo poo benefits after your discharge - at least that's what I hear, I've literally never heard a veteran claim they were well taken of after they left the military, but I don't have a large sample size to work with.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:37
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mlmp08 posted:There are a fair number of non-combat positions out there, but "drive truck from A to B" can likely be fulfilled with either locals or foreigners who are a much cheaper employee than Americans. But I've seen some people roll directly into contractor gigs where they're troubleshooting computer networks or fixing communications gear or servicing C-RAM systems, with not a whole helluva a lot of training in between active service and contractor work overseas. Some interesting thoughts on "PMCs" going around here. Mlp hits the nail on the hand- the military is competing with (mostly) stateside contractors to retain highly technical jobs. Ie IT, cyber, repair of advanced electronics and intricate equipment. Not so much desperate to keep grunts from going to work as mercenaries. Lots of work is contracted to local nationals, such as truck driving, mess halls, etc, for convenience, manpower efficiency, and as part of agreements made with the host country.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:47
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FastestGunAlive posted:hits the nail on the hand My stigmata is acting up.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:52
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my dad posted:We are the Horde. Disband your levies and surrender your castles. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. Can you imagine how much history would suck if the Mongols were badass until a few encounters with Voyager
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Jul 7, 2017 01:58
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Ithle01 posted:Yeah of course, I'm well aware of that, but odds are that the army volunteer has to do the same job or even worse jobs than that for as low as one-tenth the pay and poo poo benefits after your discharge - at least that's what I hear, I've literally never heard a veteran claim they were well taken of after they left the military, but I don't have a large sample size to work with. Honestly the benefits afterwards are extremely hit or miss, as anyone in GiP would tell you, though broadly I will say that the VA is underfunded and undermanned and a lot of problems stem from that. The GI bill is pretty good, and when you are in you get 4500 dollars a year of tuition assistance, which combined with the Post 9/11 GI bill giving 36 months of school (really oversimplifying here) you can easily end up with a degree with little to no debt. Like, the benefits afterwards could be better and the new change to the pension system hurts people who want to stay in while helping people who get out, but it isn't complete rear end. Mostly. The base pay is rear end, but you add in the food and housing subsidies, cost of living adjustments, health insurance and life insurance it gets a lot more competitive. Not "holy poo poo I'm definitely gonna stay my full 20" competitive, but I hadn't had a job on the outside that let me live comfortably in Honolulu so its not bad. Still would never go and be a grunt, they just get poo poo on constantly as has happened historically since probably the Roman era. At least my pay has only been late twice in a three year period, which is a lot better than most jobs I've had.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:02
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:What was the last battlefield casualty due to an arrow shot from a bow? Some guy in the British army had confirmed kills with a longbow in WW2. He also carried a claymore around.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:25
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mlmp08 posted:My stigmata is acting up. Lol. ~Phone posting~
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Jul 7, 2017 02:31
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Was Hawaii attacked at all after the Pearl Harbour battle was over, like for the rest of the war?
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Jul 7, 2017 04:21
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