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Safety Factor posted:I still want to know why that one guy puts biovores into a tyrannocyte. Maybe they want the whole enemy army to move up first, then drop the biovores behind them to force them to split fire.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:14
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Zaphod42 posted:Yes?? I enjoy the fluff, but don't have an aneurysm when something dumb pops up.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:15
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Safety Factor posted:I still want to know why that one guy puts biovores into a tyrannocyte. So they can miss, and you can drop spores close to characters and charge them next turn. With split fire on units it will never happen though. They are T1 with 1 wound and no armour so you just have to dedicate a basic infantry shot or two at them.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:20
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TKIY posted:I messed up the damage, its 1 or d3 not a d6. Still: Remember the weapon is heavy, you can't overwatch with it, and you can only shoot at the closest model if you are outside of the shorter ranged synapse. For a grand total of.... 1 wound! Or in a squad of 3, 108 points for 3 wounds! Meanwhile zoanthropes are synapse, have a 3++ save, don't give a poo poo about advancing/moving out of combat, have fly, and in a squad of 4 average 4 mortal wounds with the ability to slap Horror on something, and are 120 points. Though putting them in a pod to control what gets hit is almost mandatory. Biovores are for sniping out characters. Sure, a unit of 3 could kill a terminator every other turn, but... eh? Missing a squad and putting mines next to buffing character is the best use.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:22
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Hey guys, long time no posting here, 8th has brought me back into the game ish. I play Dark Angels, Iyanden Eldar and Khorne CSM/Demons. Played 3 games of 8th so far - Khorne list kinda crushed a warrior-based Necron list, Ravenwing bounced off a balanced Chaos list and Deathwing were annihilated by a Destroyer Necron army. Mainly looking for some Dark Angels feedback - the last time that I played Deathwing I played an alpha strike list when they got twin linked with their deep strikes and assault cannons were terrifying, but that doesn't seem very possible anymore. Similarly, Ravenwing seem completely different as well, with my bikes getting wrecked but my landspeeders being hyper tough and effective if costly. Has anyone run a successful RW or DW list? Are there trap units? It's really hard to judge with the new points/vehicle system now. With Sammael's rerolls I was considering a list with like a core of landspeeders wandering around as a deathstar with some throwaway bikes to kill / distract key targets, but it just ends up being so few models, even if there are a lot of wounds with it. And also I think it just dies to a couple of lascannons. Deathwing I'm really at a loss, they were completely underwhelming in the one game I played. The increase in wounds seems more than offset by armor modification on weapons + their old counter of plasma weapons all doing multiple wounds anyways. That said I think the destroyer army was a ridiculously hard counter to the army so I'm not even sure I could have won with any DW list. Khorne Berzerkers seem really, really good. My planned next Khorne list is a bunch of berzerkers, Heldrakes, and a Herald on a Juggernaut to run around and kill a thing. I'll grab some pictures of my guys when I get home tonight.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:26
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From BoLS:quote:GW: Next Week’s Grimdark Prices & Products CONFIRMED Does anyone know if the Know No Fear book is a true mini rulebook?
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Jul 6, 2017 20:26
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Cross posting this from the painting thread because I'm actually happy with how these models are coming out for once. I'm hoping to finish up the Intercessors tonight.   Really looking forward to seeing them on the tabletop.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:32
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I'm a bit iffy on the Easy to Build prices. Your average squad of tacticals is $4/model, and they aren't monopose and come with way more weapon options. For simple kits like this, I feel like $10 would've been the real ideal. Hell, that'd put these 6 Poxwalkers about on par with the current 5-man Cultist set pricewise, and put the other models more in scale with what you could expect from basic troop pricing. The bundle for $40 I'm fine with, but considering my earlier analysis that's about what I'd value all of those models at combined anyway.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:33
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LordAba posted:Remember the weapon is heavy, you can't overwatch with it, and you can only shoot at the closest model if you are outside of the shorter ranged synapse. For a grand total of.... 1 wound! Or in a squad of 3, 108 points for 3 wounds! Zoans are going to have to get close, can't pick their target and are going to get charged and popped. Biovores can hide in a ruin all game long.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:38
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TKIY posted:Zoans are going to have to get close, can't pick their target and are going to get charged and popped. Biovores can hide in a ruin all game long. You'll need somebody babysitting the Biovore in the ruins, too. Depending on the synapse unit, that can be as simple as a small unit of Warrior bodyguards, or a hilariously big waste of a Tyrant or Broodlord. Even then, a Warrior has way better things to do than hang in the back watching over a useful at best, middling at worst artillery piece.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:43
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The Bee posted:You'll need somebody babysitting the Biovore in the ruins, too. Depending on the synapse unit, that can be as simple as a small unit of Warrior bodyguards, or a hilariously big waste of a Tyrant or Broodlord. Even then, a Warrior has way better things to do than hang in the back watching over a useful at best, middling at worst artillery piece. Malanthrope. My plan is to run a Spearhead for about 650pts. Malanthrope, 2 x Exocrines, Biovore unit (3). If I have Hive Guard from the primary detachment they can chill too. -1 to hit is huge and only the Exocrines need LoS. They are going to do work, and hopefully I can get the Exocrines into cover too.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:48
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TKIY posted:Malanthrope. Not too bad of an idea, although I think it could benefit well from a small melee carpet to tie enemies up in melee. It doesn't have to be too big of a screen, but blocking a prospective enemy charge with just enough units to avoid being smacked down by pile-ins seems like it would come in handy. It also gives you a good chance of scoring Prey Adaptation off of the Malanthrope for army-wide 1 rerolls.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:55
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The Bee posted:I'm a bit iffy on the Easy to Build prices. Your average squad of tacticals is $4/model, and they aren't monopose and come with way more weapon options. For simple kits like this, I feel like $10 would've been the real ideal. Hell, that'd put these 6 Poxwalkers about on par with the current 5-man Cultist set pricewise, and put the other models more in scale with what you could expect from basic troop pricing. The models in First Strike add up to $60 not including the other stuff, plus buying the models direct from GW produces a $15 ceiling, so I would expect them to be dirt cheap on eBay.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:59
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The models in First Strike add up to $60 not including the other stuff, plus buying the models direct from GW produces a $15 ceiling, so I would expect them to be dirt cheap on eBay. Most certainly. The Bee posted:I'm a bit iffy on the Easy to Build prices. Your average squad of tacticals is $4/model, and they aren't monopose and come with way more weapon options
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Jul 6, 2017 21:03
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berzerkmonkey posted:Is GW coming out with multi-pose Primaris stuff though? I'm working on some AoS models and every single one is a monopose model. Less variation seems to be the way they're headed now. That way they can cut down costs! Right?
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Jul 6, 2017 21:04
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TKIY posted:That way they can cut down costs! Right? Reduce costs, raise prices. Capitalism 101
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Jul 6, 2017 21:09
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Since you have already build models and enjoy it go hog wild on whatever. The strengths of 40k are the great fluff and the great models, the game is more or less an excuse to play space barbies with your friends. Its not balanced and likely never will be. If you can look past that and just enjoy your beautiful army in motion then any edition is a good starting place. Cool, thanks. When I implement Primaris guys into my army I'll probably pretend they're just abnormally big marines.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:10
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The pricing is a bit high; but the decision to go mono-pose for some of the dudes isn't a bad one. They're convenient and easy to assemble for those with little or no modeling experience. 8th seems to be all about accessibility; this fits right in
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Jul 6, 2017 21:14
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Deified Data posted:Cool, thanks. When I implement Primaris guys into my army I'll probably pretend they're just abnormally big marines. They're the same base size (mostly) so it shouldn't be a big deal.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:16
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Hixson posted:The pricing is a bit high; but the decision to go mono-pose for some of the dudes isn't a bad one. They're convenient and easy to assemble for those with little or no modeling experience. 8th seems to be all about accessibility; this fits right in Yeah, I'm fine with that. If it's all monopose like Berzerk is saying, I'm less fine. Especially when a lot of the models in the AoS main hero range boil down to "C3PO holds his hammer up, and maybe tilted a bit." Space Marines would be so sterile if every single model boiled down to that as well. I think an example of monopose done right is the Poxwalkers. No two models look the same, and each is oozing with character. I don't mind a lack of flexibility when each of these weirdo zombies has some love put into them, and even the Easy Build kit looks engaging. Compare to the Reivers, where you can envision at least 5 cooler poses for each of them.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:20
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TKIY posted:That way they can cut down costs! Right? I would say the justification would be that it's more for entry level gamers who don't know how to put together a model. You still have a shitload of parts on the sprue (depending on the model,) and you're still paying for the guy to digitally cut the parts and the milling time required for the mold. There is also the true cost of having to pay their in-house casting people a competitive wage, since they aren't outsourcing to China anymore. I know when I worked in a machine shop yeeears ago, the guy who would come in for a couple of hours a week to punch some coordinates into a milling machine made more than I did in a week, so, while the machine costs have gone down, I imagine that having a knowledgeable programmer isn't cheap. The Bee posted:Yeah, I'm fine with that. If it's all monopose like Berzerk is saying, I'm less fine. Especially when a lot of the models in the AoS main hero range boil down to "C3PO holds his hammer up, and maybe tilted a bit." berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 21:23
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I am physically capable of assembling a multi pose model but have no idea how to make it look good, so I like monopose but would be real happy with something in the middle.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:31
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Zaphod42 posted:Yes?? It's just Magnus, it's a side effect of the psychic trauma he inflicted on himself breaking through the Emperor's warp wall on Terra. And yeah it is silly, if his sense of duty and nobility were left on Terra why was he willing to submit himself to Russ on Prospero? I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned to not be an actual shard of his soul but a warp echo of his personality. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 21:34
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Been working on some Shadow War terrain recently. There's a ton of detail on these, so I'm trying to put a bit more effort into them than I usually do. I'm still trying to keep the palettes relatively muted so the models pop in photos/on a quick table scan. So far, this is been fun enough that I may revisit my older, less-detailed terrain and pick out some more details on it.     
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Jul 6, 2017 21:42
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berzerkmonkey posted:From BoLS: If this is the case, I wonder if Primaris squads will be able to be larger than what's listed in the small book included in Dark Imperium. I'd like to run not 3 man squads of Inceptors.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:47
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I really hope they don't use fixed pose models. It would be a major shift from previous lines and it's not like it's particularly difficult to have a Space Marine with sections. It looks like the Primaris Captain has a bunch of options so I am curious as to how they turn out.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:57
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Zuul the Cat posted:If this is the case, I wonder if Primaris squads will be able to be larger than what's listed in the small book included in Dark Imperium. I'd like to run not 3 man squads of Inceptors. Looks like they will at least have the option to be smaller given the box has only three Intercessors.
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Jul 6, 2017 21:59
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Looks like they will at least have the option to be smaller given the box has only three Intercessors. There was a 4-point, 3-Primaris detachment visible in the box set picture. Of course, you could also buy 3 sets of them and the Getting Started guide for a total of 10 more Intercessors.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:01
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So Primaris players, how are they working out? Any tips or recommendations for someone interested in Bigmars? If you play 'em, do it because they look cool. They're not particularly competitive. Even if their transport is as good as a Razorback, the units need options. They're hard to make tactically relevant when you can't specialize the squads into performing a specific battlefield role for you. Unless they can somehow start taking 2+ special weapons per squad, they're going to be relegated to just being models that kinda look cool but aren't any good. Tactical Marines are just far superior to Intercessors right now, and it's not even close. Not even a good transport will change that. Now if they get wargear options in addition to a competitive transport, they'll be much closer. But as it stands, it's not worth the extra 54% point tax per model just to get an extra wound and a close combat attack. Same goes for the Libby and the Captain too (at least, at the moment). The Libby is closer, but the Captain being priced into a Power Sword as his best (only) close combat weapon option means he's just not great. Having an extra wound/attack over a regular Captain doesn't make up for the lack of weapon options. Even just a Relic Blade on a regular Captain makes it far more formidable in combat. Hellblasters, on the other hand, are good. If the Primaris transport winds up being a competitive model, 5 Hellblasters in a Primobile will be a hell of a unit. Their guns are truly great.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:02
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Presumably we will have all these answers and more by end of the month come codex release. With how expensive, points-wise, the Primaris are already, can't say I'd want to pay 200 points for a single 10-man squad of intercessors unless they get some cool gear options.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:06
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:It looks like the Primaris Captain has a bunch of options so I am curious as to how they turn out. I hope it's not indicative of the options in the codex.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:09
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Safety Factor posted:You have the option of two different bolters and either a pointing hand or a power sword. That's it. Ya, it doesn't look like there's much to choose from: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-primaris-characters-rules-spotted.html For their sake, I hope those are just the temporary rules that come in the blister pack for the moment, and they're not indicative of how they'll look once the Codex drops. bonds0097 posted:Presumably we will have all these answers and more by end of the month come codex release. With how expensive, points-wise, the Primaris are already, can't say I'd want to pay 200 points for a single 10-man squad of intercessors unless they get some cool gear options. If you can even take 'em in squads of 10...
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Jul 6, 2017 22:11
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I am glad my 40 Hellblasters are good, but I hope my 40 Intercessors and 18 Inceptors git gud. I refuse to use Tiny Marines, so I am at their mercy.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:13
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Ya, it doesn't look like there's much to choose from: The release of the 3-pack raises the question whether the codex will allow larger than 5-man squads of intercessors, which is what I was alluding to.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:20
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What would it take to make Primaris / Heresy-style Marines work on a 40k context? Would the basic bolter need to be way better for Intercessors more than warm bodies, or is the specialist/heavy too essential?
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Jul 6, 2017 22:34
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The Bee posted:What would it take to make Primaris / Heresy-style Marines work on a 40k context? Would the basic bolter need to be way better for Intercessors more than warm bodies, or is the specialist/heavy too essential? Basically, while 10-20 basic bolter marines may sound boring, there's a lot more going on there than it might seem. Their primary role is capturing objectives, obviously, but they can provide some solid weight of fire and are not too shabby in melee. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 22:50
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The Bee posted:What would it take to make Primaris / Heresy-style Marines work on a 40k context? Would the basic bolter need to be way better for Intercessors more than warm bodies, or is the specialist/heavy too essential? They need to be able to hold objectives and not fold instantly in mid-range firefights. To do that they need either a more effective way to get around than walking, or a selection of weapons for various engagements. Preferably both. Tac squads do what they do because they are versatile, if you're gonna just be a bunch of dudes with line troop guns you need to be cheaper and more numerous to take real advantage of that.
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Jul 6, 2017 22:52
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The Bee posted:What would it take to make Primaris / Heresy-style Marines work on a 40k context? Would the basic bolter need to be way better for Intercessors more than warm bodies, or is the specialist/heavy too essential? If they can carry multiple special weapons per squad and the transport winds up being reasonably competitive, they might wind up being as good as Tactical Marines. But even then, it's going to ultimately depend on their points cost. The extra wound (and melee attack, I guess) in the stat line is nice and all, but affordability and flexibility are key.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:05
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Safety Factor posted:30k legion tactical squads work because you have 10-20 of the idiots. They're cheap, ranging from 125 for 10 (with a sergeant) to 225 for 20 before upgrades. They also have a special rule allowing them to double-tap their guns, but they are then unable to fire in their next shooting phase and can not perform overwatch. They have the option of switching their bolters for chainswords or simply taking one in addition to their bolter and bolt pistol. There's a couple of other little upgrades too. The vexilla, basically a small banner, lets them re-roll failed morale checks and the nuncio-vox acts as a teleport homer and lets them spot for artillery. They are decent units on their own, but they really shine when they've got an attached apothecary for Feel No Pain and a support character like a chaplain or librarian can be a big force multiplier. That sounds really interesting, and really puts the Tactical in tactical marine. The vox in particular makes them really good spotters for bringing the rest of your army to bear, and I hope Primaris get something similar while GW insists on making bigmarines the Horus Heresy option.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:08
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Is anyone else running the Primarus Lieutenants? I have been using one and a Captain in Gravis Armor and I feel like they are pretty good, but I am a bad judge of things so I don't know 
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Jul 6, 2017 23:28
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