|
If I understand right, there were multiple women kicked out, at least one had nothing to do with the pro-Israeli group and at least one did?
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
Zanzibar Ham posted:If I understand right, there were multiple women kicked out, at least one had nothing to do with the pro-Israeli group and at least one did? Two of the women were together, one on her own who had nothing to do with A Wider Bridge, whose affiliation was only learned of after the fact. All were approached because of their flags. The chant thing is some stupid bullshit that doesn't even make sense. "Everywhere to Mexico?" And the two women together have already disputed that revised version of events. Also it seems rather ridiculous someone who took steps to make sure her flag is still acceptable would go with the intent to disrupt something she's been apart of for several years. And then a third person getting wrapped up in the same targeting too who wasn't accused of being disruptive? poo poo don't add up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
Barry Convex posted:
That's the literal definition of Zionism. It's not about military expansionism. Anyone who doesn't think Israel should be immediately destroyed is some form of a Zionist. The word "Zionist" is like "progressive," "neo-liberal," or "neo-conservative", it's turned into a pejorative by its opponents designating a gigantic array of positions. Furthermore, it's about consistency. If someone wants full communism or anarchism or libertarian open borders smash the state, fine, that's an argument. If Jews are the only group not allowed to be nationalist (as stupid as nationalism is overall of course), or correspondingly, if someone's against a Palestinian state. Jews should have a state and Palestinians should have a state, just Kurds, Tibetans, every people that are the majority in an area and not given equal rights by their government should have self-determination and the right to a state.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 03:47
|
|
|
sup guys gbs mods sent me to this thread. i dont usually like posting in here because everyone in this subforum is really mean, lol!! i think israel has a right to exist and anyone who feels otherwise should "gas themselves" as you anti-semites like to say  prove me wrong, noobs. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 03:56
|
|
|
Gorgo Primus posted:2: I'm fairly sure the majority of Jews in the world do and will always continue to live outside of Israel and the immigration rates to Israel aren't actually increasing as much as you're implying. Feel free to prove otherwise cause I'd be interested to know by what degree. It was up by a huge amount two years ago with all the attacks in Europe, it fell a bit last year. There are unacceptable levels of anti-Semitic violence in continental Europe. quote:3: So far as I can tell antisemitism isn't actually on the rise unless you count anti-zionism as antisemitism, and I'm fairly sure antisemitism in the middle east would be a lot harder to sustain at present levels if there weren't a state insisting that it that it speaks/acts for all Jews that maintained itself on the basis of apartheid, ethnic cleanings, and retinue mass murder that bigots could point at to try to convince others of their views. https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/us-anti-semitic-incidents-spike-86-percent-so-far-in-2017 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/reports-of-antisemitic-incidents-increase-to-record-levels-in-uk https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/topic-pages/victims_final This is actually a very weird point you're making, because usually the JVP crowd will play the of course anti-Semitism is rising, it's all Trump, Steve Bannon is the anti-Christ (and yes they're both racist pieces of poo poo) card. Their shtick is unacceptable though. It's never ok to minimize attacks on a minority group. We would be understandably outraged if anyone tried to minimize racism against other groups, while the JVP never fails to race to minimize claims of anti-Semitism. Parts even defended Alison Weir or Gilad Atzmon, and got testy when their national leadership condemned them. I also fail to see how any of this helps Palestinians in any respect, helps end the occupation, or helps with other anti-Zionist goals that I disagree with like a binational state or refugees. These incidents are a PR debacle. quote:4: I don't know of any state founded on or currently conducting these kinds of grave injustices who are ones currently in the process of carrying out those same injustices over and over again just to keep themselves 'pure' with the full unconditional support of the US and West. Because the majority of them were already successful, overwhelmingly in their ethnic cleansing? If anything, you're making the Benny Morris argument that they should have just went full bore in 1948 and been done with it. Is there a state in the history of mankind that didn't commit massive, overwhelming war crimes and/or crimes against humanity? Plenty are continuing to this day, and in most cases there's minimal international interest, much less outrage. There's no direct analogy of another western state fighting a hot war on their borders, although there are plenty (Cyprus, Transnistria, Crimea, Tibet, Kurdistan, Chechnya, Kosovo) of similar nationalist conflicts around the globe that don't trigger nearly as much indignation. I don't think there's any good evidence that the Israeli conflict is necessarily about religious or ethnic purity, as it's an 80% majority state, not a 95% plus. The conflict is about hostility and extremism on both sides, Israel being paranoid, and Mizrahi Israelis especially hating Arab Muslims due to being direct victims of ethnic cleansing. quote:5: Why is Israel the only state in the world with this magical 'right to exist'? Because they're the only western state that's had its legitimacy being threatened in that time period, especially disproportionate to their actual body count? We can have this argument right after there are UN sanctions on Syria and Saudi Arabia. You know that many people who make this argument are two staters who want a Palestinian state, right? quote:If Israel only counts as existing when it is an apartheid state, then why should it get to exist over a Jewish-Palestinian bi-national state with equal rights, privileges, and responsibilities for all that most people who demand a one state solution want? How do you propose to do this without mass disenfranchisement of Israeli voters, as well as massive ethnic cleansing? This central BDS demand, of reversing 1948, makes the achievable goal of ending the occupation harder by sucking away all the oxygen and driving away persuadable moderates. What conceivable logic is there in forcing two mortal enemies to live together? What's needed is a Czechoslovakian style no fault divorce. Saying the peace process has failed, let's try 1 state is like saying Obama failed, it's time to do the exact opposite and elect Trump. quote:Stealing people's land to create a state where the natives are treated like dirt or worse What happened is a complicated tragedy that was exacerbated by Arab hostility to Zionism. Things didn't have to happen the way they did, and the refugees would not have been made permanent if the Mizrahim weren't ethnically cleansed, but it's not feasible to change either of them now. You're glossing over Jews being indigenous to Israel, and it doesn't matter if their grandparents hosed a lot of poles given that UNRWA isn't applying an ethnic purity test to Palestinian refugee claims. And clearly their desire to return home was the result of centuries of anti-Semitism that culminated in the Shoah. There is a crystal clear precedent that every country where Jews have ever been a minority in Europe and the Middle East experienced profound levels of anti-Semitic mass murder and pogroms. The conclusion that there is no potential solution besides a Jewish majority state is rational in that context. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 04:21
|
|
|
The problem is you can't ignore the consequences of your position. If you're pushing for gerrymandering a permanent Jewish majority through a 2-state solution then that's one thing. But if you're a-okay with ethnically cleansing and oppressing arabs in order to preserve a Jewish majority then it's not just about Zionism anymore and you don't get to hide your horrible ideas behind "I just want a Jewish state". Just like if I said I wanted an end to the Israel/Palestine conflict but the way I wanted to do it was to ethnically cleanse the region of Jewish people. Wanting to end the conflict is a good thing, but the end being good doesn't justify every means to achieve that end. I don't get to be all "I just want to end the conflict" and claim my detractors are for the conflict.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
It doesn't particularly matter since two divided peoples in two divided states is the will of the majority of both ethnic groups. The terms of that arrangement are at issue, along with the question of how to ever get Israel to actually bring it about.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
Yeah, which means that Zionism in principle has won and the world accepts the notion of a Jewish state as either preferable, desirable, or inevitable. Which is why I don't think Zionism is particularly relevant anymore and shouldn't be used as a shield for Israel or a way of attacking Israel. The debate has moved on from "should we have a Jewish state" to "what is an acceptable means of securing a Jewish state". And I think right now defenders of Israel's actions are on the wrong side of the second question.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 04:50
|
|
Futuresight posted:Yeah, which means that Zionism in principle has won and the world accepts the notion of a Jewish state as either preferable, desirable, or inevitable. Which is why I don't think Zionism is particularly relevant anymore and shouldn't be used as a shield for Israel or a way of attacking Israel. The debate has moved on from "should we have a Jewish state" to "what is an acceptable means of securing a Jewish state". Actually yes pretty much, but the question is how much more that has to be at the expense of Palestinians.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
Ambassador* To U.S. Jews: ‘Unite Behind Israel’ Despite Broken Wall Deal  * U.S. Ambassador to Israel, rather than the other way around, if you were wondering.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 04:03
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Ambassador* To U.S. Jews: ‘Unite Behind Israel’ Despite Broken Wall Deal Lol, a US official telling Jews they're not loyal enough to Israel.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 04:09
|
|
|
Disinterested posted:Lol, a US official telling Jews they're not loyal enough to Israel. This somehow manages to offend me as an American, an Israeli, and as a Jew, for slightly different reasons. Good job, Friedman, ya manyak! 
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 04:11
|
|
|
Has this article been posted yet? http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.795169?v=8E921891A379EB3B65A2EE37BC556124 Israeli Government App Recruits Online Soldiers in anti-BDS Fight The app – geared to digitally-aware millennials – turns Israel advocacy into a competitive game in which young defenders perform “missions” on various social media platforms, earning points and badges. The missions include sharing and retweeting positive news about Israel, reporting and complaining about designated YouTube and Facebook posts to the platform's companies, signing online petitions and even emailing UNESCO’s director general to ask that her organization “stop their bias towards Israel.” The initiative was unveiled with fanfare last week in New York City at the Salute to Israel Parade by Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan, who promoted the project as being an “Iron Dome of Truth.” While this is not the first time the Israeli government is involved in online advocacy, the new effort has more aggressive messaging than in the past – promoting positive messages about Israel, but also strongly encouraging people to post negative comments against posts determined to be “lies” and “fake news,” and to lobby platforms like Facebook and YouTube to take down material deemed damaging to Israel’s image.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Has this article been posted yet?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 21:38
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I doubt many of those younger people will come to this dead gay forum to post pro-Israel propaganda but I guess we will see You mean they're not already doing it?
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
https://theintercept.com/2017/06/30/israel-propaganda-hasbara-app-security-flaw-rallyware-maccabee/ lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:01
|
|
|
The Time posted:“I wanted to be in public as a gay Jew of Persian and German heritage. Nothing more, nothing less. So I made a shirt that said ‘Proud Jewish Dyke’ and hoisted a big Jewish Pride flag — a rainbow flag with a Star of David in the center, the centuries-old symbol of the Jewish people,” she wrote. Where are her symbols for German and Persian heritage? Did she wear a Pickelhaube adorned with a Faravahar?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 15:23
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:https://theintercept.com/2017/06/30/israel-propaganda-hasbara-app-security-flaw-rallyware-maccabee/ Their missions are to report things and retweet. Weird that they're being so open about this
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
What are the usual arguments put forward by those who would prefer a completion of the Israeli occupation of Palestine as opposed to the continuation of the decades-long standoff? Or why they would choose Israel over Palestine?
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 06:44
|
|
|
There's usually either the religious fundamentalist view of 'recovering' Eretz Israel, putting Israeli security as paramount while simultaneously considering annexation as the best (or easiest) way to achieve this or simply not confronting the issue and maintaining the policy of slow ethnic cleansing while stating that they are open to peace and passing the blame onto the Palestinians.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I doubt many of those younger people will come to this dead gay forum to post pro-Israel propaganda but I guess we will see
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 08:15
|
|
|
gently caress Israel
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 08:44
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:gently caress Israel I don't know how you intend to have sex with an entire country, but I admire your ambition.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 08:53
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:gently caress Israel (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
city of doves posted:that's how i got here
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:Because they're the only western state that's had its legitimacy being threatened in that time period Uh, I think most of former Soviet eastern Europe and Taiwan (maybe South Korea and Hong Kong too?) would disagree. You could argue they aren't 'western' but by those standards admitting Israel to that club is difficult.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/882903132027723776
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
I'm not surprised they're bonding, they have similar views about how to handle Muslims.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:I'm not surprised they're bonding, they have similar views about how to handle Muslims.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 00:13
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:What exact sentiments (besides Pakistan) do Hindus have against muslims, to refresh my memory? this is like asking what precise sentiments besides Palestinians Israelis have against muslims
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:What exact sentiments (besides Pakistan) do Hindus have against muslims, to refresh my memory? This isn't about him being Hindu, it's about him being Narenda Modi.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't know how you intend to have sex with an entire country, but I admire your ambition. If the... Internationally recognized delineations which mark the... sovereign geopolitical territories of a declared nation-state are a shiftin' don't... gently caress, I had something for this, but it got away from me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 18:54
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:What exact sentiments (besides Pakistan) do Hindus have against muslims, to refresh my memory? I'm not talking Hindus or Indians, I'm talking Modi specifically. Dude is the head of a Hindu nationalist party and, more importantly, did exactly gumball when a bunch of his supporters launched pogroms in the state he was governing at the time. He's a very interesting character and I don't disagree with him on everything, but his Muslim rights record is Bad. Edit: tried to write fuckall thanks autocorrect
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2017 23:53
|
|
|
So UNESCO officially ruled the tomb of the patriarch and the old city of hebron as officially palestinian heritage sites. The reaction from israeli politicians is predictable. Also there's this
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2017 11:15
|
|
|
So it sounds like tomorrow is going to be a busy day at al-aqsa/temple mount, huh?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 17:11
|
|
|
Count Roland posted:So it sounds like tomorrow is going to be a busy day at al-aqsa/temple mount, huh? Na, bro, it's all gonna work out. https://twitter.com/DovLieber/status/888265109327327239 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2017 06:36
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Na, bro, it's all gonna work out. gently caress, there's going to be a Third Intifada isn't there 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2017 07:49
|
|
|
Autism Sneaks posted:gently caress, there's going to be a Third Intifada isn't there
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2017 14:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
I'm just not sure there can be a real intifada given the depth of Israeli apartheid. Gaza is under siege and the West Bank is submerged and broken up.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2017 15:34
|
|