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bewilderment posted:In the Marauder class quests it's the opposite (so far, I'm level 41), you pick up a healer named Solkwyb from the buffet table (seriously, you're asked to go pick her up from the restaurant) to carry you and heal you through the quests. Then for Warrior the trainer guy actually helps you and does things until he gets sad. The conjurer questline, in my opinion, isn't bad as long as you understand it's about Sylphie, not you. Your character is mostly there to be by implication Sylphie's teacher and even substitute parent. I wanted to throttle Sylphie at first, but she ended up growing on me. Not for everyone, though. Graduating to white mage has been less interesting so far (I'm 43). It's just one dude screaming that you're not fit to be a white mage while everyone else says no of course you are. Sometimes you beat up on elementals and wave your hands in front of trees to heal them.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:01
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I liked the WHM 50-60 questline but the 30-50 was pretty dire.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:02
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The DRK level 50 job quest is the best in the game, bar none.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:04
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i'm not going to address your other two points because they're offensively unintelligent even by your sentient-oatmeal standards but 'you get the best rewards from the hardest stuff' isn't exactly a controversial stance and exists in tons of scenarios beyond video games Everything should just be Guild Wars 1 style - you reach max-level and max gear halfway through the story and after that point, everything is just for cosmetics and the storyline. Also I wish more games had the GW2 dye system and that it carried across characters. Once you unlock a dye, the dye is 'perma unlocked' and you don't need to make more, and there's like a thousand different shades. This means that a cool new dye is actually valuable loot - good blacks and whites are hard to come by, and a white that's designed for cloth won't looks as nice on metal!
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Jul 7, 2017 01:04
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i'm not going to address your other two points because they're offensively unintelligent even by your sentient-oatmeal standards but 'you get the best rewards from the hardest stuff' isn't exactly a controversial stance and exists in tons of scenarios beyond video games Hey! Guess what, when you raid savage, you do receive "the best rewards from the hardest stuff" for that patch. Then, when the next patch comes out, your stuff isn't the best stuff anymore. That's how vertical progression MMOs work, you stupid loving moron.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:05
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EponymousMrYar posted:The DRK level 50 job quest is the best in the game, bar none. The level 70 quest comes pretty dang close to topping it though.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:06
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Yo, whats the quickest way to level the gatherers below 50?
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Jul 7, 2017 01:10
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BrightWing posted:Yo, whats the quickest way to level the gatherers below 50? Leves.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:10
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EponymousMrYar posted:The DRK level 50 job quest is the best in the game, bar none. I really hope Fray returns for more DRK story, someday.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:10
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Mordiceius posted:Leves. Ugh, fiiiiine, thanks. So boring.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:14
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BrightWing posted:Ugh, fiiiiine, thanks. Target the leves that give bonus XP "Collect this many points and get 25% bonus xp" ones.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:15
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Mordiceius posted:Target the leves that give bonus XP "Collect this many points and get 25% bonus xp" ones. Duly Noted! Anything to make this go a bit faster, promised a raid buddy I'd do BOT if he did MNR so we had more gatherers in the group.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:17
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I know MCH is at the bottom along with BRD as far as DPS output right now, but how's their playstyle? Did the change to gauss barrel and their newfound mobility prove to be a fun mechanic? It seemed at first to me that managing heat would just kind of be a pain in the arse alongside managing your turret, but that was before we had any 70s reporting in.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:17
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BrightWing posted:Ugh, fiiiiine, thanks. Also do your GC turn-ins daily, they give ridiculous XP and the NQ materials you pick up along the way can be sold on the MB for decent money (or kept if you're a crafter).
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Jul 7, 2017 01:28
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Clarste posted:To encourage the crafter equivalent of raiding, obviously. I'm sure there are crafters out there that resent being mostly useless. Honestly I'm torn on the issue because as a crafter, I like having crafted gear be really good, but as a raider, I don't like that my raiding gear becomes useless the moment the next raid drops.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:44
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Ciaphas posted:I know MCH is at the bottom along with BRD as far as DPS output right now, but how's their playstyle? Did the change to gauss barrel and their newfound mobility prove to be a fun mechanic? It seemed at first to me that managing heat would just kind of be a pain in the arse alongside managing your turret, but that was before we had any 70s reporting in. The real problem with the class beyond it being crap damage right now is that you can't really see really mature until 64 or so, and the gameplay is definitely either a love it or hate it thing. It's also got some other minor annoyances that might turn you off too, such as being kind of crappy if you're synced down anywhere between 52-63 and can't manage heat, or if you're going FATE grinding or something and keep getting leveled down and losing gauss barrel and all your heat constantly.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:46
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panda clue posted:People literally did say that, though. where?
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Jul 7, 2017 02:03
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Mordiceius posted:Hey! Guess what, when you raid savage, you do receive "the best rewards from the hardest stuff" for that patch. Then, when the next patch comes out, your stuff isn't the best stuff anymore. That's how vertical progression MMOs work, you stupid loving moron. vertical progression models rely on time-gated lockouts to keep progression synced early in a raid tier, expensive pentamelded crafted upgrades bypass this and thus have no purpose except to be a week-1 tax, and the reason you haven't done any hard content in this game has nothing to do with a lack of time to play and everything to do with your attitude towards it. namaste.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:06
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Reiterpallasch posted:expensive pentamelded crafted upgrades bypass this and thus have no purpose except to be a week-1 tax And why does this matter? Not trying to be be a jackass about it. I'm sincerely asking. Yes, the gear is better than the previous raid tier, but it is coming after that raid tier. But it is inferior to the newer raid tier, so there is still something to go after. It is also optional. So why does it matter?
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Jul 7, 2017 02:09
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Mordiceius posted:And why does this matter? Not trying to be be a jackass about it. I'm sincerely asking. Yes, the gear is better than the previous raid tier, but it is coming after that raid tier. But it is inferior to the newer raid tier, so there is still something to go after. It is also optional. So why does it matter? To make gil off impatient/lazy people?
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Jul 7, 2017 02:13
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Die Sexmonster! posted:To make gil off impatient/lazy people? No no, I'm trying to figure out why it is a bad thing.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:14
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Mordiceius posted:And why does this matter? Not trying to be be a jackass about it. I'm sincerely asking. Yes, the gear is better than the previous raid tier, but it is coming after that raid tier. But it is inferior to the newer raid tier, so there is still something to go after. It is also optional. So why does it matter? I can take a stab at explaining, from what I've gleaned from the conversation: People who raid like to feel like the great gear they got is useful for something--that it is the best for a specific purpose. If there's better gear available--better gear that you can almost certainly afford if you're a serious savage raider--before you even set foot into the next savage raid tier, it takes some of the fun out of the great gear you raided for in the previous tier. If, instead, the best available gear to start savage raiding in the current tier was the gear you could get by savage raiding in the previous tier, even if you're going to replace it with the gear you get in the new raid tier, you at least feel like that raiding you did in the previous tier was valuable preparation for the current one. Yes, the crafted gear is optional, but if it is better than what you raided for, and will help you in the new raid, and you can afford to get it, you'd be a fool not to use it. You know how sometimes, when someone says a game is too easy even on its hardest difficulty, people suggest handicapping yourself to make it harder, as though that is not only a solution, but means that the difficulty must be totally fine? Just ignoring better gear because it replaces gear you spent more effort obtaining is sort of a mild version of the same thing--yeah, you can do it, but it's kind of silly and doesn't really solve the problem. I hope I worded that well. I suspect that it wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue for people if crafted gear better than Raid Tier A released like a couple weeks after Raid Tier B, for example, so it's still useful for people playing catch-up or who just leveled a new job, but gives the people who have gear from Raid Tier A time to use it for new content while it's the best available. Harrow fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 02:15
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I can't loving wait for Menagerie Extreme. Did the trial this morning with the FC and had a blast, it's such a good fight. Might be one of my favorites.
Augus fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 02:18
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Mordiceius posted:And why does this matter? Not trying to be be a jackass about it. I'm sincerely asking. Yes, the gear is better than the previous raid tier, but it is coming after that raid tier. But it is inferior to the newer raid tier, so there is still something to go after. It is also optional. So why does it matter? well, i'd say i'd have three objections to that: from a design perspective, fights escalate upwards in difficulty in a tier, because you're expected to have better gear as you progress through a tier. allowing a 10 ilvl jump on the first day the raid releases has significant knock-on effects--in the case of the i250 crafted stuff, it meant that nobody with money and/or friends had to run Creator story mode ever, which in turn increased the queue length and lowered the success rate of Creator story for people who didn't have that support network from a stupid raid drama perspective, it messes up the pace of world-first clear groups, who generally compete on their ability to squeeze performance out of their classes beyond what their item levels would ordinarily allow from a fairness perspective, it's actually just dumb to charge people literal millions of gil and/or hours of crafting to get their week 1 gear upgrades. not everyone has those kinds of resources. non-combat stuff like glamours or rp or chocobo racing are almost never contingent on doing cutting-edge combat content. likewise, it seems reasonable that cutting edge combat content shouldn't have anything to do with how high you've leveled your DOH/DOL classes, or how good you are at playing the market board. there's a perfectly reasonable niche for crafted gear to be implemented at the max item level of the previous patch instead of +10 over it; plenty of people switch their job and need catch-up gear every time a raid tier comes out.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:19
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Now i want to see 8 person crafter content where you have to coordinate touches and only one crafter can finish an item per week.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:19
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like, just consider all the complaining in this thread literally today about how stupid the token system is for normal 8-man raids--if i could pay 2 million gil per piece for stuff equivalent to omega normal i would in a heartbeat. i'm not a golden god 98th percentile speedrunner or anything, but i'd like to think that groups with me healing are more likely to go well than groups with some rando YOU DONT PAY MY SUB person afk-healing. if nothing else, i help make the queues pop faster. giving me the option to buy out of omega normal--something that people who aren't DoH/DoL market board barons probably won't have the money to do--is both unfair and bad for the overall health of the content.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:23
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Harrow posted:it's kind of silly and doesn't really solve the problem. But is it really an actual problem or just a hang up some hardcore raiders have and can't seem to get over? Harrow posted:you at least feel like that raiding you did in the previous tier was valuable preparation for the current one. Isn't that subjective to the why people raid? If people savage raid to always have the best gear, then you're in for constant disappointment because in this MMO, those goalposts will be moved every 6 months. If people savage raid to always be fighting the toughest content, then it shouldn't matter if better quality crafted gear comes out, as it just helps them. If people savage raid to spend time doing challenge content with friends, again, crafted gear shouldn't matter. Where it just comes across to me as a small group of savage raiders whining that "oh my best gear isn't the best for long enough."
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Jul 7, 2017 02:23
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This all sounds remarkably similar to all the seething hatred people had for Kinna weapons being competitive with Alex Savage weapons.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:25
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Mordiceius posted:But is it really an actual problem or just a hang up some hardcore raiders have and can't seem to get over? by allah, raiders are so illogical
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Jul 7, 2017 02:26
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Reiterpallasch posted:like, just consider all the complaining in this thread literally today about how stupid the token system is for normal 8-man raids--if i could pay 2 million gil per piece for stuff equivalent to omega normal i would in a heartbeat. Fister used to talk about how people who did savage mode deserved extra story content because they put in the extra work. Shouldn't those who put in the time gearing up their DoH/DoL and playing the market board deserve to have their own advantages for putting in the extra work?
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Jul 7, 2017 02:27
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kinna weapons were literally never competitive with alexander savage weapons, everyone could get a kinna weapon relatively easily if they wanted to, and kinna weapons weren't released at the same time as a raid tier
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Jul 7, 2017 02:27
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YoshiOfYellow posted:This all sounds remarkably similar to all the seething hatred people had for Kinna weapons being competitive with Alex Savage weapons. Kinna weapons were barely competitive with Sophia weapons, which were available months before kinna weapons were.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:31
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Mordiceius posted:Fister used to talk about how people who did savage mode deserved extra story content because they put in the extra work. Shouldn't those who put in the time gearing up their DoH/DoL and playing the market board deserve to have their own advantages for putting in the extra work? first, i'm not even on the same side as fister in this argument, so i don't see why you're trying to pin his often shittacular opinions on me second, they would have some advantages anyway even if the gear was released on item level--pentamelded crafted items are often superior to equivalent item level dropped gear due to higher substat freedom, without needing the +10. i think this is stupid and pentamelds should go away, but that's how it works right now. third, i'm sorry, but the game does put a higher focus on combat than crafting/gathering by design. you start as a combat class, combat classes are required to see almost all story content in the game, and they're ok with gating gathering points behind main scenario progress.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:32
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Mordiceius posted:If people savage raid to always have the best gear, then you're in for constant disappointment because in this MMO, those goalposts will be moved every 6 months. I guess what I mean is: what's the point of having the best gear if there's nothing to really use it for? Congratulations, you have the best gear... for getting more of that gear tier, because by the time the next raid tier comes out, you can buy better gear than the stuff you're wearing before you even set foot in it. I'm arguing from a position I haven't personally been in, I should point out. I'm just trying to distill what I've read in this thread about it. But it doesn't seem illogical to me. Yes, you're going to replace that gear eventually, but wouldn't it be nice to actually need to use it for something first, and not just for the same tier you got it in? It's the difference between: - The best way to prepare for Raid Tier B is by doing Raid Tier A, versus - The best way to prepare for Raid Tier B is buying crafted gear. I can see how that's unsatisfying, y'know?
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Jul 7, 2017 02:33
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like if there ever exists a possible alternate resolution to final coil that involved baking a dragon-cake so dragon-licious that bahamut prime's desire for vengeance was quelled and he flew off to another star to open his new dragon patisserie, i'm willing to have this argument again, but until then, yes, combat content is privileged above the other kinds of content in this game.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:34
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Reiterpallasch posted:like if there ever exists a possible alternate resolution to final coil that involved baking a dragon-cake so dragon-licious that bahamut prime's desire for vengeance was quelled and he flew off to another star to open his new dragon patisserie, i'm willing to have this argument again, but until then, yes, combat content is privileged above the other kinds of content in this game. Great, now I'm mad that I can't do that.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:36
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Harrow posted:I can see how that's unsatisfying, y'know? I can understand to a degree, but I guess I'll never understand fully because in my mind, I basically think "if I'm able to tackle the content I want to tackle, who cares what gear I have or how I got it." And I don't think about it beyond that. Not to say anyone is specifically wrong in how they feel. Just different opinions and viewpoints. I do feel, however, that the crafted gear probably helps more people than it hurts. Reiterpallasch posted:second, they would have some advantages anyway even if the gear was released on item level--pentamelded crafted items are often superior to equivalent item level dropped gear due to higher substat freedom, without needing the +10. i think this is stupid and pentamelds should go away, but that's how it works right now. I would be 100% fine with having overmelding done away with.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:37
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Harrow posted:Great, now I'm mad that I can't do that.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:39
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to clarify again: nobody has any objection to crafted gear being on par with gear that was best in slot last patch, or at least if they do they're stupid. it's when it's a strict upgrade that things get dicey.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:41
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If raid gear from tier 1 becomes completely obsolete on day 1 of tier 2, then there's no reason for raiders to stick around after their first clear. That's the problem with crafted gear right now.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:42
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