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Yaws posted:So who is ethical in Star Wars? Since contrarian readings are abound here, is it Palpatine? SMG has always said Vader is the ethical character in Star Wars.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:21
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Vader is basically Spartacus.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:21
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Basebf555 posted:Vader is basically Spartacus. I'm Darth Vader.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1SsiDSbr-o
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Jul 7, 2017 22:46
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homullus posted:R2 is established as a liar entirely within ANH (claiming that he can only replay the Leia holo if Luke unchains him). Obi-Wan actually said he didn't recall owning one, though. That's true. He is pretty old and he could be getting senile. How old is Obi-wan in ANH? 45? 50?
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Jul 7, 2017 22:48
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Super Fan posted:
You do know that Obi-Wan is a character in a movie right?
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Jul 7, 2017 23:47
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UmOk posted:That's true. He is pretty old and he could be getting senile. How old is Obi-wan in ANH? 45? 50? 57.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:06
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Zoran posted:57. For real? He looks around 80. Must be that hard tatooine life.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:23
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Alec Guinness was 63 during ANH.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:36
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Seriously. Luke looks about on Obiwan's level in TFA and the span between the OT and NT is nearly double the span between the PT and OT.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:36
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Beeez posted:SMG has always said Vader is the ethical character in Star Wars. He ethics the poo poo out of those younglings.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:41
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Detective No. 27 posted:Seriously. Luke looks about on Obiwan's level in TFA and the span between the OT and NT is nearly double the span between the PT and OT. Retirement on chill Irish Viking cruise planet vs hot rear end sand Oakie planet.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:10
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Saying someone is ethical is pretty meaningless. Ethics are in the eyes of the beerholder.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:13
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It's actually a little odd that people see the "good friend" bit as dishonest. Obi-Wan really did consider Anakin his brother, and felt betrayed by someone he loved when he fell to the Dark Side. RBA Starblade posted:He ethics the poo poo out of those younglings. That's kind of the joke. Ethics and morality can come into conflict. A quick example from pop culture is Jaime Lannister killing King Aerys; Jaime chooses to kill the King he swore to protect to prevent an atrocity, choosing moral good over ethical duty. The Kingsguard is held to an especially high ethical standard, but his peers are powerless to do more than call him "kingslayer" due to the ironic fact that they were themselves in rebellion against their king. Although Ned Stark wanted to kill him on the spot, perhaps the most telling revelation of the ultimate emptiness of Stark's pose of moral and ethical clarity. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 03:14
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Haha. Is that Leftovers Wars? Pretty awesome combination of some of the best things ever.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:18
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I guess this deleted scene is now canon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX0CDwZJe-s Because of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3II-zqUe6M
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Jul 8, 2017 05:45
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Chuy got turned out by a wampa? This new Star Wars is pretty edgy.
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Jul 8, 2017 05:56
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Hodgepodge posted:That's kind of the joke. Ethics and morality can come into conflict. Anakin kills a bunch of children to stanch the risk of future civil war (which totally worked, obviously). That makes a certain amount of practical sense, but it's obviously a moral atrocity. There's no excuse for doing that. Only a monster would claim it was justified. You could argue it's some sort of "ethical", from the philosophical standpoint of the Sith, but what right-thinking person would ever promote such a system of ethics as being "good"? That's the issue that's being dealt with in the movie. From Anakin's point of view he's doing the right thing, but that doesn't matter, because he isn't right. You can do all sorts of fancy ends-justify-the-means logical gymnastics to try to justify what he's doing, but the instinctive feeling of shock and repulsion you feel seeing this  is all you need to know that it's wrong. Anakin knows it's wrong too, on some level, but he makes a choice to ignore his better instincts in favor of cold, machine-like logic which the Sith philosophy systematically conflates with liberating human passion. That's something that doesn't get talked about a lot. Darth Vader is an unfeeling robot, but he's also an emblem of unrestrained passion and rage. The paradox is that failing to exercise any sort of control over our passions actually makes us emotionally numb in the long run. Darth Vader doesn't actually get any gratification from his anger, like he was promised. He's just going through the motions, going to greater and greater lengths in his monstrosity and continually chasing after that elusive high like the addict that he is, in a misguided attempt to experience some sort of real human feeling again.
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Jul 8, 2017 07:43
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Detective No. 27 posted:Seriously. Luke looks about on Obiwan's level in TFA and the span between the OT and NT is nearly double the span between the PT and OT. Even the script for ANH says A New Hope script posted:His ancient leathery face, cracked and so even back then it mentioned the "exotic climates" of the various worlds he's been on as part of the reason he looks the way he looks.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:31
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Oh I'm not saying it isn't wrong, I'm marveling at how lovely Obiwan's life turned out.
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Jul 8, 2017 16:56
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Cnut the Great posted:Anakin kills a bunch of children to stanch the risk of future civil war (which totally worked, obviously). That makes a certain amount of practical sense, but it's obviously a moral atrocity. I thought it was more to get rid of any competition. Those little kids could have also been taken and trained to be dark jedi, or whatever. But Vader is a selfish bastard.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:19
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spacetoaster posted:I thought it was more to get rid of any competition. Those little kids could have also been taken and trained to be dark jedi, or whatever. But Vader is a selfish bastard. Anakin killed the kid's on Palpatine's orders.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's same way they perceive Star Wars as a simulation where the laws of an alternate universe are set to make slavery objectively, canonically pleasurable - and racism is objectively correct because the droids were made (by God Lucas) to suffer (it's their lot in life). The difference is that droid racism is not strictly ideological. In human racism, I do not recognize myself in another, so strange thoughts arise internally, which in turn structure reality. Droid racism as an ideology is needed to even (initially) conceive/create droids, thereby only reaching actualization in reality itself. Even though an intelligent life form creating another intelligent life form for forced labor is inherently wrong, this particular relation (What you dismiss as purely ideological: the human relationship with technology) still only reaches actualization externally and is the gap to be overcome. Droids are both people like us (Made in our image) and not people like us. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 18:53
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spacetoaster posted:I thought it was more to get rid of any competition. Those little kids could have also been taken and trained to be dark jedi, or whatever. But Vader is a selfish bastard. Go back and watch the flick--Palpatine specifically indicates Vader has to do bad things to raise his Dark Side Power Level (DSPL) in order to unlock top tier abilities, one of which is Saving The One You Love (STOYL). I'm not kidding!
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Jul 8, 2017 19:20
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More "dark jedi" running around is the last thing anyone needs, which is part of the reason Sheev had everyone killed in the first place.
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Jul 8, 2017 19:54
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porfiria posted:Go back and watch the flick--Palpatine specifically indicates Vader has to do bad things to raise his Dark Side Power Level (DSPL) in order to unlock top tier abilities, one of which is Saving The One You Love (STOYL). I'm not kidding! Could you give me the time stamp at the point he does this specifically?
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Jul 8, 2017 21:09
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These are from the script. I don't recall if the lines in the finished product differed, and I don't feel like checking right now.quote:PALPATINE: We must move quickly. The Jedi are relentless; if they are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end. First, I want you to go to the Jedi Temple. We will catch them off balance. Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy. Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save Padme. quote:ANAKIN: The traitors have been taken care of, Lord Sidious. Of course, this is the same Palpatine who would later, in 1983, say things like "Your hate has made you powerful." It's not that doing evil deeds makes him stronger - it's the emotional component that he considers important. In that sense he had other Jedi are in agreement.
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Jul 8, 2017 22:08
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Twenty years of living in the desert, drinking your rear end off, thinking about how everything and everyone you knew has been destroyed, and shouldering the guilt that your failure allowed darkness to overtake the galaxy will age you a decade or two extra, who knew. Naturally, the old EU had to awkwardly explain the aging. Something to do with Ben overhearing about a famous actor who got his good looks obliterated by life in the desert. lol
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Jul 8, 2017 22:23
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Bongo Bill posted:These are from the script. I don't recall if the lines in the finished product differed, and I don't feel like checking right now. It's weird, but those younglings give a ton of exp 
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Jul 8, 2017 22:33
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Hodgepodge posted:It's weird, but those younglings give a ton of exp It's the Sith equivalent of the tutorial adventure where you kill the rats in the tavern cellar.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:12
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Hodgepodge posted:It's weird, but those younglings give a ton of exp Its a purposeful catch-up mechanic, when you reclass from jedi to sith you keep all your stat points but your level gets reset to 1 so you can quickly grind out levels for points to spend on your new powers.
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Jul 9, 2017 03:47
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Younglings give almost nil XP, but as completely innocent and cherubic NPCs, killing them gives mundo Darkside Points, which you need to unlock...Lay on Hands? I guess because it's going against God's order or whatever in Lucas's cosmology.
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Jul 9, 2017 06:52
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PRANK GONE WRONG Politician convinces soldier to join insane mystic cult
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Jul 9, 2017 09:35
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porfiria posted:Younglings give almost nil XP, but as completely innocent and cherubic NPCs, killing them gives mundo Darkside Points, which you need to unlock...Lay on Hands? I guess because it's going against God's order or whatever in Lucas's cosmology. It's kind of like eating those baby chicks in Fable, no one actually expects you to and you're just going to gross everyone else out if you do but you can if you really want to.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:11
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Set photos from the Han Solo film show off Han, Chewie, Woody Harrelson's character, and...some lady. But more importantly, in the video near the end, is that an Ewok in a glass cage? On the left. 
thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 22:40
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Perhaps our heroes encounter an entirely original "Collector" character who very subtly reflects the vile consumerism at the heart of its primary audience?
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Jul 10, 2017 00:24
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new han is like 5,5 feet tall
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Jul 10, 2017 11:26
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Beeez posted:Even the script for ANH says It's possible he was intended to be older--ancient, even, like Yoda is eventually established to be. There must be some reason Tarkin just plain assumes he "must be dead by now." But that was before Anakin and Vader were the same person. Going back and making Episode I, Obi-Wan had to be a young man but not too young to start training Anakin at the end of the movie, and Anakin had to be of an age so that he would be "a young Jedi" (as Ben describes Darth Vader in ANH) by Episode III, which had to take place at the most nineteen or so years before Episode IV. That necessitated a little bit of fudging of Obi-Wan's age in the originals. Of course in reality the fudging just ended up making Obi-Wan only seven years younger in Episode IV than Alec Guinness actually was, so it's not like there's some insurmountable visual discrepancy. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 17:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v6Kpab-lqI I'm screaming
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Jul 10, 2017 18:07
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I can safely say that that has literally never crossed my mind even momentarily.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:17
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