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ProfessorProf posted:Kumasawa's tone made it sound as though she was scolding Kinzo. As a mother who had raised many kids, Kumasawa had probably spotted that Kinzo's love was often of a mistaken sort. However, the more she grew to look like her mother, the more distorted and twisted Kinzo's heart became... Because of his deep love, it grew very, very... twisted... no no nonononno no no no no no NO. NO. They could have saved her. But instead, they indulged Kinzo and gently caress. gently caress! All of those pieces of poo poo were basically conspiring to allow Kinzo the space and time to rape his daughter. They didn't give a gently caress about her. They deserved every one of their deaths in those games. Sorry Cornelia, I'm gonna have a smoke. witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 15:44
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"...You are right to scold me, my friend. I understand. My love is eternal and undying. However, I must acknowledge... that I poured that affection onto... the wrong person..."
"...Grandfather... Wait, you don't mean..."
"Lion-sama. All humans in this world are tied to each other. Even if they do not notice, there is always some sort of tie. Those ties... wrap themselves around people and bring them together."
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Tired Moritz posted:the power of exposition A literal Soliloquy-O-Matic, it looks like...the ability to just give a character the ability to adapt the stage to tell a story. It's honestly something that makes the theater geek in me jump for joy, and we;'re obviously going to have some really great revelations to the story, but... I can't be happy about that now. Because in a wholly noncommittal and horrifyingly banal way, we have had confirmation of one of the darkest secrets of this island and of the Culprit. And we have seen that secret glossed over by the other characters in this room, in the presence of someone who it effects greatly. Poor Lion, just...poor, poor kid. That's all I can say at this moment without degrading into incoherent screaming- this is going to take me a while to process, so for the moment I'll quote witchcore's post here: witchcore ricepunk posted:no no nonononno no no no no no NO. NO. They could have saved her. But instead, they indulged Kinzo and and give her internet fist-bumps of solidarity in grief, shame, and horror. 
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Jul 8, 2017 16:21
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Poor Lion looks to be on the verge of getting sick. Kinzo is pitiful but he deserved a far worse death than he ever got in the fragments, because holy poo poo that poor, poor girl.
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Jul 8, 2017 16:43
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I don't think any more needs to be said Kinzo's oh desire, so I'm gonna jump back a day because I was busy yesterday. So Kanon/Shannon and Lion. The fact that they don't know who the hell the other is probably means that if Lion exists, that is if Cliff Baby is adopted by Natsushi rather than cliffed, then Kanon and Shannon do not. So since they can't both exist in the same world, they wouldn't know of each other at all. Which means that the world of this game board is contradictory and impossible, not merely a hypothetical way things could have gone. But if contradictory states like that are allowed to exist on the game board, in front of the detective no less, then reasoning stops being possible. So now I'm going to think, probably foolishly, as if the current game board is not a contradictory amalgam of multiple worlds, but an actual possible state of the game with no magic needed. Which brings me back to my weird twins theory. So if Kumasawa rescues only one of the twins to which Kinzo is both father and grandfather and takes them to the orphanage, while the other is raised by Natsushi and named Lion, then in this world the Yamada Conglomerate would have only one body while in others they would have two. This would explain robo-Shannon's warning, too; if Will forces that reveal in this world where Shannon and Kanon have only one body, he could fall into the trap of believing this was the case for all the preceding games as well. After all, the analogy used wasn't 'if you make this move the game will stalemate/be destroyed' but 'if you make this move, you will lose'. As an aside, going way way back, can someone fill me in on what the original reasoning behind S=K was? Specifically, was there more to it than the fact that Shannon and Kanon are never in the same place as Battler at the same time?
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Jul 8, 2017 16:52
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resurgam40 posted:Because in a wholly noncommittal and horrifyingly banal way, I believe this is somewhat less their character traits and more an unfortunate side-effect of what Ryukishi07 was trying to do when presenting some (all?) moral dilemmas in this story: leaving it entirely up to the reader. The more evidently reprehensible the issue, the more he had to kind of lean in the other direction in order to avoid both explicitly condemning and excusing the offender. That's my take on it at least. Whether that's something he should have done, well... that's also up to the reader.
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Jul 8, 2017 16:54
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Robindaybird posted:Poor Lion looks to be on the verge of getting sick. And I really can't blame them if they do so right then and there. This place is filthy anyway, it won't make any difference if they miss the trash can. Seriously, what the HELL. 
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Jul 8, 2017 16:57
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Kaiten torpedoes were a real thing. Specifically, they were manned torpedoes; kaiten pilots were trained to steer them straight into enemy ships. They ended up not actually working that well, overall. I expect this is where Yamada would have gotten the materials for the bomb. There could well be giant piles of explosives left over from the island's days as a submarine base.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:14
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tiistai posted:I believe this is somewhat less their character traits and more an unfortunate side-effect of what Ryukishi07 was trying to do when presenting some (all?) moral dilemmas in this story: leaving it entirely up to the reader. The more evidently reprehensible the issue, the more he had to kind of lean in the other direction in order to avoid both explicitly condemning and excusing the offender. It really damages the characters. Or perhaps that was the intension, but either way, you can't have that happen then have both Kumasawa, and Genji be like, "Yeah, that happened, we didn't do anything," and expect it to not mark them as terrible terrible people. Will I can understand. He's a detective. Watching dispassionately, then concluding that the end is basically his job, especially with his obsession with motive. Everyone knows the trope where the cop's interviewing the serial killer after they've finally been caught and calmly listens to them explicating the most horrific poo poo. This is basically that for him. But there are no excuses for the Genji or Kumasawa.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:24
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ZiegeDame posted:As an aside, going way way back, can someone fill me in on what the original reasoning behind S=K was? Specifically, was there more to it than the fact that Shannon and Kanon are never in the same place as Battler at the same time? This is the original one, as far as I recall: wrp posted:I was working on an Episode 2 review when I read your post, and now the whole thing's in the loving garbage because holy poo poo, witch power corresponding to the power to make imaginary friends into alternate personas = On the subject of Kinzo, goddammit Kinzo, getting explicit confirmation doesn't make it feel any better. Also yeah, theoretically the torpedoes would be how the Explosion happens.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:24
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. I'm throwing away that post because it strikes me that there's another character that fits your description, but I'm not sure I have enough textual evidence to support the theory. It's going to have to be kind of vague and generalized for now.
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CottonWolf posted:It really damages the characters. Or perhaps that was the intension, but either way, you can't have that happen then have both Kumasawa, and Genji be like, "Yeah, that happened, we didn't do anything," and expect it to not mark them as terrible terrible people. Will I can understand. He's a detective. Watching dispassionately, then concluding that the end is basically his job, especially with his obsession with motive. Everyone knows the trope where the cop's interviewing the serial killer after they've finally been caught and calmly listens to them explicating the most horrific poo poo. This is basically that for him. But there are no excuses for the Genji or Kumasawa. Honestly I wonder if that's the point, given we know the author's previous occupation - how many times has he seen family members ignore abuse because they couldn't will themselves to go against the abuser for whatever reason and then tried to either justify the abuse or justify their lack of action when confronted.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:27
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CottonWolf posted:But there are no excuses for the Genji or Kumasawa. There are factors that explain their behaviour that you might not be aware of, but again, whether that's enough to excuse them is a different matter.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:38
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Robindaybird posted:Honestly I wonder if that's the point, given we know the author's previous occupation - how many times has he seen family members ignore abuse because they couldn't will themselves to go against the abuser for whatever reason and then tried to either justify the abuse or justify their lack of action when confronted. Exactly this. Honestly, I can understand the servants. Under the premise that, for whatever reason, they initially felt they had no choice but to go along with Kinzo in this (and tiistai's post above that showed up as I was previewing this one seems to indicate as much), remember that at this point they've had to basically rationalize the whole situation to themselves for decades now in order to be able to live with themselves. Depending on how willing a participant Original Beatrice was in her secret incarceration, that experience and what they had to tell themselves to go through with it may have made it easier for them to become complicit in 1967 Beatrice's abuse. I can understand it, even if I can't excuse it. I can understand Will not wanting to directly antagonize and condemn the man he's trying to get to talk to him, too. What really rubs me up the wrong way is the "How a man shows his affection for a child who is the only living reminder of her mother is no one's business" line. That's not just placating Kinzo, that's a blanket absolution of responsibility and guilt for anyone who witnesses child abuse and does nothing about it, and that is not okay with me.
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Jul 8, 2017 17:41
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lol somebody let me know when people are finished talking about this
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Jul 8, 2017 18:35
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I'm just going to keep right on talking about explosive devices, personally.
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Jul 8, 2017 18:59
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As someone know knows literally nothing about bombs, how many torpedoes would it take to blow up a mansion?
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Jul 8, 2017 19:04
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Cyouni posted:This is the original one, as far as I recall: This isn't what I'm looking for, as it already starts from the premise that Kanon is imaginary. I'm looking for the in-text evidence that first lead people to theorize that Kanon and Shannon are the same person. (Specifically I'm trying to test Van Dine #15.)
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Jul 8, 2017 19:27
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I know very little about bombs, but I've just done some research which has probably put me on at least one government watch list. This video shows the effects about five tons of TNT: https://www.rt.com/viral/374760-china-controlled-blast-buildings/ We could assume we're looking at something on that scale. Hell, let's assume we have twice that much explosive. Now, we don't know that it's kaiten torpedoes specifically that ended up being used; in fact, Kinzo says that at the time he begins his story there aren't any there. I'm assuming that a) military bases will generally have some explosive ordinance even if it's not specifically those torpedoes and b) it's possible that some kaiten torpedoes arrive later in the story. Operating on that assumption, a type 1 kaiten torpedo (the only that generally got used) had a 3,420 pound warhead. 10 tons is about 20,000 pounds or, in other words, about seven or eight torpedoes. That would be one salvo for a Kuma-class cruiser, according to what I just looked up. So the answer to your question is: probably not that many in the grand scheme of things. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 19:32
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ZiegeDame posted:This isn't what I'm looking for, as it already starts from the premise that Kanon is imaginary. I'm looking for the in-text evidence that first lead people to theorize that Kanon and Shannon are the same person. (Specifically I'm trying to test Van Dine #15.) The theory was first widely discussed in the thread around the time Episode 4 ended. I forget the specific logic that led people there at that point. They can probably explain better.
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Jul 8, 2017 20:44
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Question: these Kaiten torpedoes were supposed to be manned, right? So in that case, best case scenario, you sunk a battleship with minimal casualties. Worst case scenario, you just lost however many dudes that knew how to operate the damned things. I almost wanna say "What the gently caress, WW2-era Japan", but I'm already aware of much stupider things they've pulled.
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Jul 8, 2017 20:48
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Unexploded bombs from WWII are still found fairly frequently: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39828327 The explosives weren't made to last 40 years (let alone 70), so there's no telling what they'll do if you start messing around with them. They may be inert, or they may go off with the slightest touch. Personally, I wouldn't count on them to behave themselves. On the other hand, it's probably more realistic than a teenager finding a black market source for modern explosives in Japan. Unless a fellow ex-orphan became an arms dealer or something.
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Jul 8, 2017 20:50
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BurningStone posted:On the other hand, it's probably more realistic than a teenager finding a black market source for modern explosives in Japan. Unless a fellow ex-orphan became an arms dealer or something. How much do we really know about Amakusa's childhood?
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Jul 8, 2017 20:54
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ZiegeDame posted:How much do we really know about Amakusa's childhood? ...Please proceed, governor.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:14
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ZiegeDame posted:This isn't what I'm looking for, as it already starts from the premise that Kanon is imaginary. I'm looking for the in-text evidence that first lead people to theorize that Kanon and Shannon are the same person. (Specifically I'm trying to test Van Dine #15.) Text wise I don't think you're going to find anything that directly points to it, as I recall all the theories were based off lack of evidence to disprove it, combined with it making sense metaphorically.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:26
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ZiegeDame posted:How much do we really know about Amakusa's childhood? Kyrie's "stillborn" child, seized from his mother! Who became cliff baby! And was then put in the family's orphanage and trained to be Ange's kickass bodyguard! And provided explosives to kill the entire family! It rather bothers me that we can't show any of that is impossible.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:38
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BurningStone posted:Kyrie's "stillborn" child, seized from his mother! Who became cliff baby! And was then put in the family's orphanage and trained to be Ange's kickass bodyguard! And provided explosives to kill the entire family! Amakusa has white hair too so clearly the first theory works.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:44
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oath2order posted:The theory was first widely discussed in the thread around the time Episode 4 ended. I forget the specific logic that led people there at that point. They can probably explain better. I think it started with the theory that, because Shannon wasn't Sayo's real name, things that involved Shannon disappearing, dying, not being present, etc, didn't have to apply to her. Several of us had already pegged her as one of the most likely candidates to be Beatrice, so combining those things left us to a theory in which one person adopted both personas, and any discussions between them were more like internal debates. Then, later, someone proposed that maybe Kanon was also another persona of this same individual; the post that was linked earlier here might have been the earliest time that happened, don't remember. That post isn't making the assumption that Kanon is imaginary, it's proposing that as a theory. I personally resisted this idea until it was basically shoved in our faces in episode six on the theory that George couldn't possibly be totally celibate with Shannon (disproven by George being a giant goon) and that Shannon wouldn't let Battler get grabby if she was wearing fake breasts (disproven by Yamada being willing to allow Battler to catch them pretty much whenever). I don't think there was strong textual evidence of them being the same until episode six; it was more that it had a lot of thematic resonance and fit in well with the idea of furniture as imaginary beings.
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Jul 8, 2017 21:50
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I think part of the theory also came from both Kanon and Shannon referring to themselves as furniture, which was shown in that episode to basically mean imaginary friend, so the question was, if they were furniture, whose were they? They implied Kinzo, but he was dead by this point. I also wasn't a huge fan of the theory though, still aren't tbh, even though I know it's true, it's just the story's shaping up to be a psychological thriller upsetting sort of deal, and I wanted pure murder mystery, but that's on me, not the story.
Graylien fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 22:14
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It might not be exactly the correct season for this TIP, but we're not going to be here until February and there's quite a few to go through before the end of the LP. This one used to have an almost complete but kinda awkward translation. Thankfully it's pretty short. Valentine's Day Letters ————————————— Lucifer To His Majesty, the Territory Lord and the Master of the Game Board, On account of Valentine's Day, and as the representative of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, I hereby present an offering of chocolate as well as an oath of our eternal allegiance. — From the eldest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Lucifer, with love and loyalty. P.S. Given your order, I would be honored to become a chair, candle stand, cat, carpet, furniture or even slave for your sake. My Lord, please use this lowly piece of furniture however you wish. ____________________________ Leviathan To the Territory Lord who probably already received a ton of chocolate from others, Although my chocolate may be only one of the many that you've received, I still spent all possible effort to pour my heart into making it. But even if my chocolate is just an insignificant part of a huge pile, that's fine. I just hope that among the countless loving eyes gazing at you, you won't forget the ruby-colored pair that would so easily fly into a jealous rage. Ehehehehe. — From the second eldest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Leviathan, with love and jealousy. ____________________________ Satan To His Majesty, the Territory Lord and the Master of us Seven Sisters, My worthless sisters have undoubtedly included some shameless letters along with the chocolates they have sent you. However, my sisters are not at fault for this. All the blame lies with me and my sorely lacking guidance. My humblest apologies. If anyone is to be reprimanded, it should be me. I am prepared to receive any and all criticism... — From the third eldest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Satan, with love and apologies. ____________________________ Belphegor To His Majesty, the Territory Lord and the Master of the Game Board, I have given chocolate to many men, but all of it has been demonic chocolate designed to drive helpless men sink further and further into sloth, year after year. Your Majesty, however, keeps tirelessly improving himself. The Valentine's chocolate I'm offering is not hiding a trap of sloth but my heartfelt feelings. — From the fourth eldest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Belphegor, with love and respect. ____________________________ Mammon To our magnificent and stunning Territory Lord, As furniture, nothing pleases me more than working for Your Majesty and gradually gaining your trust. However, do you think it's above a furniture's station to wish for trust even greater than this? I am Mammon of Greed. I am covetous furniture who wishes to be the only woman reflected in your eyes. — From the fifth eldest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Mammon, offering her love and desiring yours. ____________________________ Beelzebub To His Majesty, the Territory Lord and the Master of the Game Board, I thought that Your Majesty deserved only the best chocolate, so I taste-tested countless varieties in search of the greatest chocolate delicacy. — From the sixth eldest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Beelzebub, with love and cocoa. P.S. The greatest chocolate was truly amazing. After tasting it, I just couldn't help myself. I ate the whole thing, so the chocolate I've sent here is the second most delicious variety. ...I'm sorry. ____________________________ Asmodeus To His Majesty, the Territory Lord and the Master of the Game Board, I have melted my heart into this chocolate. In fact, had it been possible, I would have wanted to become Your Majesty's chocolate myself. Because in that case, when Your Majesty would've eaten me, I could've entered your mouth and lolled around on your soft, warm tongue, filling your mouth with ample pleasure... — From the youngest of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory, Asmodeus, with love, passion and melancholy. ____________________________ Chiester 45 To His Majesty, the Territory Lord of Fragment #XXXXXXXXX From the 4096th Infantry of the Chiester Sisters Imperial Guards Thank you very much for everything. I actually wanted to send you handmade chocolate, but because of the chocolate terrorism incident last year, there was a ban on putting handmade chocolate in the mail this year... I put my heart into choosing the chocolate most suitable for Your Majesty's tastes. It would be my honor if you found it satisfactory! — Chiester 45 ____________________________ Chiester 410 To His Majesty, the Territory Lord of Fragment #XXXXXXXXX From the 4096th Infantry of the Chiester Sisters Imperial Guards Friendship chocolate that gets scattered around to everyone is like the Valentine's shotgun. True love chocolate that strikes with perfect accuracy is like the Valentine's sniper rifle. The chocolate that I sent to you, which one do you think it is nyeh? — Chiester 410 nyeh ____________________________ Chiester 00 To His Majesty, the Territory Lord of Fragment #XXXXXXXXX From the 4096th Infantry of the Chiester Sisters Imperial Guards The purpose of this letter is not only to celebrate Valentine's Day but also to express my deep respect and affection for Your Majesty. The enclosed chocolate has passed the inspection of the Medical Team of the Imperial Guards. Please enjoy it at ease. — Chiester 00 ____________________________ Chiester 556 To His Majesty, the Territory Lord of Fragment #XXXXXXXXX From the 4096th Infantry of the Chiester Sisters Imperial Guards I hope my feelings of gratitude and the accompanied chocolate reach you well. As you have, please allow the Chiester Sister Imperial Guards to remain in your thoughts. There are only girls in the Imperial Guards, so this custom is new to me. Have I followed proper Valentine's Day etiquette with my letter? If you find the time to let me know, thank you very much in advance. — Chiester 556 Postscript: The fortune slip that I pulled at a shrine the other day said I was in for 'terrible luck'. I should take care on my next mission. ____________________________ Dlanor In celebration of St. Valentine's Day and to express my gratitude, I'm sending you this CHOCOLATE. Rather than sending, I'd much prefer to be receiving chocolate on Valentine's DAY. I like chocolate a LOT. Because I'm a KID. Hot chocolate, I HATE. Because I keep spilling IT. ...It's too difficult to wash it OFF. Whenever I run my letters by Gertrude, she keeps telling me to rewrite them many times OVER. It's really ANNOYING. This year, I'm sending this letter in secret before Gertrude finds OUT. — Head Inquisitor of Heresy, Dlanor A. Knox ____________________________ Gertrude Dear Sir, Lately, the cold weather has been ever increasing in its intensity. I presume that Your Majesty has been holding on to good health. In celebration of St. Valentine's Day, allow me to send you this chocolate expressing my most humble respect and admiration. — Senior Aide Gertrude P.S. I recently started raising a cat. It's very cute. I was wondering, is Your Majesty more of a cat person or dog person? ____________________________ Cornelia Dear Sir, If I may humbly state, during this cold season with the first signs of springtime only just beginning to approach us, know that huddling inside a kotatsu is a most blissful experience! Owing to the chocolate terrorism incident last year, a great number of sympathizers seeking to overthrow this event out of jealousy have since risen; A notice regarding this criminal activity has already been issued. As a defender of the law, I shall endeavor to engage in my duties with ever-growing enthusiasm! — Aide Cornelia For your information, Inquisitors of Heresy are required to utilize court language even when writing letters. Should any difficulties arise upon reading, I offer my sincerest apologies. ____________________________ Zepar It's St. Valentine's Day! Have you been enjoying yourself so far!? I certainly have, no surprises there! After all, today is the day when it's alright to hunt down late-blooming boys with the sweet poison of chocolate. I never let escape any prey that I've set my eyes on. That's right, this chocolate here isn't just any old Valentine's chocolate. Who knows, perhaps I'm warning you about a crime that's about to occur...? There's a hesistant wanderer lost in the meadows of love — you. Try your best to avoid being bitten by me☆ — The Hunter of Love, Zepar ____________________________ Furfur It's St. Valentine's Day! Have you been doing alright lately? There's no day when chocolate melts as sweetly in your mouth as it does today. Please, no matter how small a piece of chocolate you may be eating, remember to savor the feelings packed in it to the fullest. Now, that chocolate you received, do you still think it's just simple friendship chocolate? If you'd say it's something more, you've come to understand the heart of a girl who can't hide her blushing face☆ All of my chocolates are, naturally, confessions of true love. For you showoffs with your big talk about not needing love or women, I'll give you a body that can't live without love anymore, so be prepared☆ — The Trainer of Love, Zepar ____________________________ Beatrice <HAPPY VALENTIIINE>!! <Aaand>, oh what a pityyyyyyyy!! Sorry, not sorry, but I munched down that whole deeelicious pile of chocolate that was sent to you! Now that I've got my eye on you, that's the end of it! Just so you know, you're not getting your grubby mitts on a girl's chocolate ever again. Oh well, admittedly I did feel a little sorry for you, so I left just a smidgen of chocolate as a present. You better remember to show your gratitude to my merciful self! A-actually I was going to give you handmade chocolate, b-but I ended up making it so delicious that ate it all myself! So I figured that this chocolate that I bought as ingredient was plenty good enough for you anyway! — The Golden Witch, Beatrice ____________________________ Ange To my big brother, I'm sure that even someone like you received a ton of Valentine's chocolate this year. A lot of it seems probably pretty suggestive, but don't get too excited about it! Unlike back in your days, it's not that uncommon for girls these days to exchange chocolate between friends like it's no big deal. So just because my homemade chocolate kind of resembles a heart, you better not be making any kind of weird lecherous faces about it! — From your dear little sister, Ange tiistai fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 22:14
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Okay, that was cute. Especially Beato. But then Ange have her letter and I'm recalling this latest update and noooooooooooooope.
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Jul 8, 2017 22:37
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Dlanor remains the best. Gertrude also wins the dark horse letter award for writing about cute cats.
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Jul 8, 2017 22:52
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So from the sounds of it, Van Dine's 15 doesn't really apply if S=K is as it appears. And part of my resistance to the theory came from how staggeringly well Van Dine's 15 applied to 'Kanon did it.' Seriously, as soon as the second twilight of game 2 Beatrice just straight up says "hey, you can totally win if you just say Kanon did it" but Battler is too busy refusing to believe anyone he's known for 12 hours could be a murderer.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:52
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Van Dine's rules explicitly forbid cigarette brands as clues, which was unambiguously used in Episode 3.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:02
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They also forbid love interests (rule 3) and atmospheric writing (rule 16), and, well.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:43
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idonotlikepeas posted:They also forbid love interests (rule 3) and atmospheric writing (rule 16), and, well. Not sure rule 3 is violated, as the love interest is on a separate level to the mystery. VD's rules weren't really written with metafiction in mind.
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Jul 9, 2017 02:18
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Well sure, many of Van Dine's rules are deliberately broken. But some of them aren't. 15 in particular is kinda like a cousin to Knox's 8th, in that if you know what the evidence is pointing towards, it should be clear on a re-read what that evidence is and how it points to the answer. If Van Dine's 15 doesn't apply, then I don't think you can say that the mystery is fair or solvable. For those that don't want to look it up, Van Dine's 15 basically says that if you re-read the story after learning the answer at the end, it should be totally obvious how every clue pointed towards that answer all along. CottonWolf posted:Not sure rule 3 is violated, as the love interest is on a separate level to the mystery. VD's rules weren't really written with metafiction in mind. George and Shannon, the entirety of the opening of episode 2.
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Jul 9, 2017 03:40
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idonotlikepeas posted:They also forbid love interests (rule 3) and atmospheric writing (rule 16), and, well. Van Dine seems to be less against romance and atmosphere per se, and more against long side stories that get away from the mystery. This has so much side stuff it's become apparent the mystery is the side story, not the other way around. I'm not even sure what you'd call the main plot.
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Jul 9, 2017 04:20
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There's a lot of thoughts in my head about this update, but mostly it comes down to this. Kinzo: You see, it's not wrong because she's actually 1,000 years old. 
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Jul 9, 2017 04:59
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BurningStone posted:I'm not even sure what you'd call the main plot. I believe Ryukishi's own words were "anti-fantasy vs anti-mystery". In other words, metafiction. In this case, exploring a mass-murder incident in realistic whodunnit terms (anti-fantasy) while the narration tries its best to obfuscate it with metaphor and impossibilities and parallel timelines (anti-mystery).
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Jul 9, 2017 05:55
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e: oops.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:30
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| # ? May 14, 2024 02:46 |
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One more comment ought to get us to the next page.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:31
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